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Eldar got bad rules? What happened to the person(s) who wrote all the Eldar insanity back in 7th? I mean Craftworld Eldar are the only faction that was top tier in 6th rolling into 7th and then got a new codex that was even more OP than it's already OP 6th edition dex. Then when we thought it couldn't get anymore crazy GW was all "Hold my beer and pretzels" and make the Ynnari releases that allowed the stacking of OP Ynnari rules on top of the already OP Craftworld rules.

The Dark Eldar part doesnt surprise me though.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
At this stage I am getting the feeling these books are nothing but paliative care for armies which (a) don't wear power armour and (b) don't shout 'For the Emperor!' every five seconds.

Considering how "well" the books turned out...

'Here is some morphine...gotcha, its just saline solution'

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
At this stage I am getting the feeling these books are nothing but paliative care for armies which (a) don't wear power armour and (b) don't shout 'For the Emperor!' every five seconds.

Next book is about people who wear Power Armour and yet are still seemingly on paliative care, so don't worry.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
At this stage I am getting the feeling these books are nothing but paliative care for armies which (a) don't wear power armour and (b) don't shout 'For the Emperor!' every five seconds.

Next book is about people who wear Power Armour and yet are still seemingly on paliative care, so don't worry.

Whilst my faction (Chaos Spacemarines - none of this heretic astartes garbage) in PA2 are getting an 'alleged' supplement level upgrade forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

I bet they still have no idea how to deal with the traits associated with each legion...looking at you in particular WB and NL

Well if you compare it with what marines got it`s looks terrible, but atleast we got something. But i`ll be a little salty if the next book gives more to the Imperium and Chaos, because it will show the trend that GW don`t want vs to play other factions.

What disappoint me is that we expected some kind of fix for aspect warriors and the only one that got something decent is the Crimson hunter. Some of the abilities are mind boggling, like the creator is trying to make fun of the aeldar players.

Fire dragons - absolutely nothing, big fat F(or even Z) for the new update.

Avengers - bladestrorm and shredding fire are at least upgrade. Avenging strikes seem interesting but without the mechanic to use it reliable is kind of me. It receive C by me, avengers are still in tacs price tag, but without the extra toughness and save.

Dark Reapers - some small upgrades for the heavily overpriced unit, good enough to make it more used. Rapid Shoot, Long-range Fire and Rain of Death are good, but with the insane SM and AM LOS options 34pts for 1 wound T3 model is not something you will build army around. Sadly their time is past, if GW don`t lower their coast to codex levels. It receive B by me.

Howling Bansheess - the biggest disappointment for me, led`s make new plastic banshees and don`t give them anything, no extra attacks, no extra strength. 13 pts for utillity model, that need support and luck to get there. F for me.

Swooping Hawks - will get C, because they receive extra utility bonuses on model that can be used in some games. The lack of AP and S3 weapon is sadly not worth the 13 pts price tag.

Striking scorpions - some extra tricks, that will make you put them back in the shelf where they belong. They look cheap for 11 pts for elite, but CWE don`t need extra tricky units, but something that can do work. D for me.

Shinning spears - some nice upgrades, Swooping Drive and Skilled Ridder are something people will try and play with. With lack of other choices, spears are our overpriced dedicated melee unit, that can make space for us on the board. Still there is nothing really special. It receive B by me.

Crimson hunter - that is lol moment for me, why the hell the most used aspects should get stronger. Maybe they will nerf it alot in CA that will push it away from CWE list, but for now probably all should start their list with 3 of them. A rank.

'At least we got something...' seems to have been the mantra of CSM players since 3.5ed.

Forgive me, I am getting inebriated at the moment. Not trying to be snarky towards yourself or anyone else.

CWE got a giant buff...

Your whole army can and always in cover and ignore cover at once. Every aspect got buffed including the already very competitive aspects like crimson hunters and shinning spears. Min units of DA which are competitive also got buffed.

Warp spiders are also looking pretty sweet with their new abilities. Can come in rerolling all hits OR warp jump in turn 1 for aggressive play. Even swooping hawks look pretty good with a 5++ and ignore cover on their guns.

Something you guys have got to realize is that marines are absolutely abysmal and needed a lot of changes to get them back into the mix. CWE is likely still ahead of them with these changes...

Seriously? A 3++ save for your 3 wound exarch for the price of free? Crimson hunters flying around hitting on 2's rerolling1s? Ignore cover on every weapon plus counting in cover across the board?

Eldar still have a lot of bad units but their best units all got better. Time to stop crying.

DE kinda got ignored here but drazar is a welcome buff. Incubi are kind of okay now but a unit like that will never be a competitive choice. DE should have got more love in this book...why they didn't also get the same style custom traits as CWE did is astonishing.

 Xenomancers wrote:

DE kinda got ignored here but drazar is a welcome buff. Incubi are kind of okay now but a unit like that will never be a competitive choice. DE should have got more love in this book...why they didn't also get the same style custom traits as CWE did is astonishing.

Having now read the book the Dark Kin aren't quite as short changed as I thought, there's a couple of traits that slide right into the current meta, and Test of Skill is lurking in the shadows hoping nobody sticks the word melee into it, Covens might be tad wobbly as Prophets is just silly good

 Xenomancers wrote:
CWE got a giant buff...

Your whole army can and always in cover and ignore cover at once. Every aspect got buffed including the already very competitive aspects like crimson hunters and shinning spears. Min units of DA which are competitive also got buffed.

Warp spiders are also looking pretty sweet with their new abilities. Can come in rerolling all hits OR warp jump in turn 1 for aggressive play. Even swooping hawks look pretty good with a 5++ and ignore cover on their guns.

Something you guys have got to realize is that marines are absolutely abysmal and needed a lot of changes to get them back into the mix. CWE is likely still ahead of them with these changes...

Seriously? A 3++ save for your 3 wound exarch for the price of free? Crimson hunters flying around hitting on 2's rerolling1s? Ignore cover on every weapon plus counting in cover across the board?

Eldar still have a lot of bad units but their best units all got better. Time to stop crying.

DE kinda got ignored here but drazar is a welcome buff. Incubi are kind of okay now but a unit like that will never be a competitive choice. DE should have got more love in this book...why they didn't also get the same style custom traits as CWE did is astonishing.

Ynarri characters are cheaper and less restrictive, too.

Its incredibly thin.
From a DE perspective you get five pages, covering 2 datasheets and 3 sets of traits, almost all of which are worse than options you already have outside of niche cases (the as mentioned test of skill flyers for instance). There may be options for pure mix and match - but at the cost of giving up chapter specific warlord traits, relics and stratagems. Labyrinthine Cunning, Vect, Living Muse? That's a lot to give up unless you are having two kabal detachments (and I know many do for flayed skull, but still.)

Its unclear anything that wasn't viable before has been made so by this addition. So it isn't very interesting from a design perspective.

For CWE its a similar story. Okay, its even more unclear why you wouldn't max out your Crimson Hunter Exarchs - but the bulk of the rest is just fluffy sidegrades, and the successor craftworld traits as a whole are marginal. It may be worth getting cover and another ability rather than -1 to hit outside 12 but its not obviously game changing.

Ynnari cost reductions were obvious - but it doesn't change the fact the faction has been cut off at the knees. Funner to play casually - but not influencing the meta.

As for the fluff there is very little here.

Tyel wrote:
Its incredibly thin.
From a DE perspective you get five pages, covering 2 datasheets and 3 sets of traits, almost all of which are worse than options you already have outside of niche cases (the as mentioned test of skill flyers for instance). There may be options for pure mix and match - but at the cost of giving up chapter specific warlord traits, relics and stratagems. Labyrinthine Cunning, Vect, Living Muse? That's a lot to give up unless you are having two kabal detachments (and I know many do for flayed skull, but still.)

Its unclear anything that wasn't viable before has been made so by this addition. So it isn't very interesting from a design perspective.

For CWE its a similar story. Okay, its even more unclear why you wouldn't max out your Crimson Hunter Exarchs - but the bulk of the rest is just fluffy sidegrades, and the successor craftworld traits as a whole are marginal. It may be worth getting cover and another ability rather than -1 to hit outside 12 but its not obviously game changing.

Ynnari cost reductions were obvious - but it doesn't change the fact the faction has been cut off at the knees. Funner to play casually - but not influencing the meta.

As for the fluff there is very little here.

For the sake of those without the book and/or familiarity with DE this is what is available:

PICK TWO
1) -1 ld bubble from DE units (no self-stack)
2) Fall back & Charge; One mortal wound on a 6 when enemies charge any number of units
3) Lose only one model to morale
4) Advance and charge rerolls; unmod 6s to hit in melee auto wounds (not vs VEHICLE/TITAN)
5) +3" Move to FLY models
6) Reroll 1s for FNP; Units w/o FNP gain it
7) Unmod 6s to wound with poison is +1 Damage (not on artefacts)
8) Deepstrike more out of webway portal

-- No specific relics, strats, traits

Versus:

Black Heart
Tactic: +1 to Power from Pain (better than the first half of 4 above); Units w/o FNP gain it
Relic : Reroll 1s to wound w/i 6''
Trait: Gain CP on a 6 for each CP used
Strat: Vect

Flayed Skull
Tactic: +3" Move to FLY Models; FLY Models (or embarkees) ignore cover and reroll 1s to hit w/ RF
Relic: 4++ after shadowfield fails
Trait: +1S +1A when charged or charging
Strat: +1 to Shoot FLY

Poisoned Tongue
Tactic: Reroll 1s to wound for melee and poison
Relic: Meh pistol
Trait: Use WL leadership w/i 12"
Strat: Re-deploy 3 units before start of battle

Obsidian Rose
Tactic: +6" to Assault, RF, and Heavy
Relic: 3+ Save (regular) and -1 to be hit in melee
Trait: +1 Damage for WL
Strat: Feeling models shoot or fight - if they kill something then none flee

To me is seems you'd still be using Black Heart for Ravagers and Vect, but there are other facets that could potentially be exploited for maybe some interesting melee or poison spam.

I don't think any Eldar needed buffs other than Ynnari getting a little more breathing room.

a_typical_hero wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Yet Templars will get the full insane Loyalist bump in the next one?

You seem to have better information on the upcoming PA2 book than the rest of the global community. Mind to share what insane rules Templars can look forward to? Or is your statement just hyperbole and guesswork?

By insane rules I mean funnily enough "supplement tier" the layering of 4-6 free rules on top of far more strategems relics etc than all books before the Marine super dex and add-ons.

Our French friend with the impeccable record said to expect a Marine Supplement level Black Templar portion and sad Vigilus level Chaos portion.

GW choosing to use the phrase "Supplement Tier" in regards to this release will create quite the firestorm in their comments sections.

Close combat with 1A S3 Kabalite Warriors would certainly be "interesting"...

Yeah, we got pretty royally screwed here. GW are currently talking about PA2 giving "Supplement Level" content to the included factions, well I would have loved it if I got that for any of my 3 Eldar factions.

To be clear, the rumours suggest it'll be like Vigilus for the Traitor Legions, so a page or two each for relics, warlord triats and stratagems. This would have been nice for the Craftworlders and Drukhari and would have suggested some effort was being put in. Instead the Craftworlders got 5 ways to re-roll 1's, in an army that already has Guide, Autarchs and myriad unit specific abilities to do the same (and gained more from the new Exarch powers) whilst Kabals got 4 different combat based traits for the shooty faction and a moral buff, in an army that rarely cares much about moral.

 Imateria wrote:
Yeah, we got pretty royally screwed here. GW are currently talking about PA2 giving "Supplement Level" content to the included factions, well I would have loved it if I got that for any of my 3 Eldar factions.

To be clear, the rumours suggest it'll be like Vigilus for the Traitor Legions, so a page or two each for relics, warlord triats and stratagems. This would have been nice for the Craftworlders and Drukhari and would have suggested some effort was being put in. Instead the Craftworlders got 5 ways to re-roll 1's, in an army that already has Guide, Autarchs and myriad unit specific abilities to do the same (and gained more from the new Exarch powers) whilst Kabals got 4 different combat based traits for the shooty faction and a moral buff, in an army that rarely cares much about moral.

Basically this.

Would it really have killed them to dream up some new Relics and Warlord Traits for Eldar and DE? Hell, I don't know about Eldar but I'm pretty sure there's still a pile of Relics in older DE books that they could just port into 8th.

But apparently even that would have too much effort.

Also, why nerf Word of the Phoenix of all things? I think I missed the part where it was dominating tournaments. Or even being used at all outside of fluff lists. Man, so glad the new GW is totally different from the old GW. They don't decide which units to nerf by using a dartboard anymore. No, sir! Now it's snooker all the way.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its incredibly thin.
From a DE perspective you get five pages, covering 2 datasheets and 3 sets of traits, almost all of which are worse than options you already have outside of niche cases (the as mentioned test of skill flyers for instance). There may be options for pure mix and match - but at the cost of giving up chapter specific warlord traits, relics and stratagems. Labyrinthine Cunning, Vect, Living Muse? That's a lot to give up unless you are having two kabal detachments (and I know many do for flayed skull, but still.)

Its unclear anything that wasn't viable before has been made so by this addition. So it isn't very interesting from a design perspective.

For CWE its a similar story. Okay, its even more unclear why you wouldn't max out your Crimson Hunter Exarchs - but the bulk of the rest is just fluffy sidegrades, and the successor craftworld traits as a whole are marginal. It may be worth getting cover and another ability rather than -1 to hit outside 12 but its not obviously game changing.

Ynnari cost reductions were obvious - but it doesn't change the fact the faction has been cut off at the knees. Funner to play casually - but not influencing the meta.

As for the fluff there is very little here.

For the sake of those without the book and/or familiarity with DE this is what is available:

PICK TWO
1) -1 ld bubble from DE units (no self-stack)
2) Fall back & Charge; One mortal wound on a 6 when enemies charge any number of units
3) Lose only one model to morale
4) Advance and charge rerolls; unmod 6s to hit in melee auto wounds (not vs VEHICLE/TITAN)
5) +3" Move to FLY models
6) Reroll 1s for FNP; Units w/o FNP gain it
7) Unmod 6s to wound with poison is +1 Damage (not on artefacts)
8) Deepstrike more out of webway portal

-- No specific relics, strats, traits

Versus:

Black Heart
Tactic: +1 to Power from Pain (better than the first half of 4 above); Units w/o FNP gain it
Relic : Reroll 1s to wound w/i 6''
Trait: Gain CP on a 6 for each CP used
Strat: Vect

Flayed Skull
Tactic: +3" Move to FLY Models; FLY Models (or embarkees) ignore cover and reroll 1s to hit w/ RF
Relic: 4++ after shadowfield fails
Trait: +1S +1A when charged or charging
Strat: +1 to Shoot FLY

Poisoned Tongue
Tactic: Reroll 1s to wound for melee and poison
Relic: Meh pistol
Trait: Use WL leadership w/i 12"
Strat: Re-deploy 3 units before start of battle

Obsidian Rose
Tactic: +6" to Assault, RF, and Heavy
Relic: 3+ Save (regular) and -1 to be hit in melee
Trait: +1 Damage for WL
Strat: Feeling models shoot or fight - if they kill something then none flee

To me is seems you'd still be using Black Heart for Ravagers and Vect, but there are other facets that could potentially be exploited for maybe some interesting melee or poison spam.

I don't think any Eldar needed buffs other than Ynnari getting a little more breathing room.

My night lords already get #1 on that list. If gw would add #4 (which we had at the end of 7th) I'd be thrilled. Wb players would probably take any ONE of those.

So what are you complaining about?

 harlokin wrote:
Close combat with 1A S3 Kabalite Warriors would certainly be "interesting"...

Incubi...

It's not like 5 attacks that cause two hits that auto wound on unmod 6s to hit care about s3. Losing the 2 damage to wound explode is a salty trade off though.

The problem with #4 is that it's a Kabal Obsession, and Kabalite Warriors are really poor at close combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Close combat with 1A S3 Kabalite Warriors would certainly be "interesting"...

Incubi...

It's not like 5 attacks that cause two hits that auto wound on unmod 6s to hit care about s3. Losing the 2 damage to wound explode is a salty trade off though.

Is that that Incubi that don't get the benefit of Obsessions because they are mercs? I do agree that Incubi are kinda fun now though.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

My night lords already get #1 on that list. If gw would add #4 (which we had at the end of 7th) I'd be thrilled. Wb players would probably take any ONE of those.

So what are you complaining about?

I'm not complaining. I'm just giving people info. I do find it humorous that DE are salty about CSM potentially getting something more in depth than them.

Lots of people judge PA like it's an Eldar Supplement. It isn't. It was never advertised as such.

It is a 6-10 book story release affecting 24 factions, exerting its impact and being impacted by other releases and WD content, peppered with a random smattering of models from many factions spread across the story arc.

You judge, based on a single chapter, something that we will be playing through at least until spring and possibly beyond. It's true that the next two books look fairly marine centric, but I want to see what Emperor's Children get. I don't play Marines, but I do play Slaanesh, and if EC rules are good enough, I might increase the marine portion of the army.

When the Baal expansion drops in December, I might pick up Mephiston; I have the Blood Angels from Space Hulk to form an allied detachment. Not sure yet.

But please keep in mind what PA is as we go forward. It's not about any one faction- it's about all of them, and it's just getting started.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its incredibly thin.
From a DE perspective you get five pages, covering 2 datasheets and 3 sets of traits, almost all of which are worse than options you already have outside of niche cases (the as mentioned test of skill flyers for instance). There may be options for pure mix and match - but at the cost of giving up chapter specific warlord traits, relics and stratagems. Labyrinthine Cunning, Vect, Living Muse? That's a lot to give up unless you are having two kabal detachments (and I know many do for flayed skull, but still.)

Its unclear anything that wasn't viable before has been made so by this addition. So it isn't very interesting from a design perspective.

For CWE its a similar story. Okay, its even more unclear why you wouldn't max out your Crimson Hunter Exarchs - but the bulk of the rest is just fluffy sidegrades, and the successor craftworld traits as a whole are marginal. It may be worth getting cover and another ability rather than -1 to hit outside 12 but its not obviously game changing.

Ynnari cost reductions were obvious - but it doesn't change the fact the faction has been cut off at the knees. Funner to play casually - but not influencing the meta.

As for the fluff there is very little here.

For the sake of those without the book and/or familiarity with DE this is what is available:

PICK TWO
1) -1 ld bubble from DE units (no self-stack)
2) Fall back & Charge; One mortal wound on a 6 when enemies charge any number of units
3) Lose only one model to morale
4) Advance and charge rerolls; unmod 6s to hit in melee auto wounds (not vs VEHICLE/TITAN)
5) +3" Move to FLY models
6) Reroll 1s for FNP; Units w/o FNP gain it
7) Unmod 6s to wound with poison is +1 Damage (not on artefacts)
8) Deepstrike more out of webway portal

-- No specific relics, strats, traits

Versus:

Black Heart
Tactic: +1 to Power from Pain (better than the first half of 4 above); Units w/o FNP gain it
Relic : Reroll 1s to wound w/i 6''
Trait: Gain CP on a 6 for each CP used
Strat: Vect

Flayed Skull
Tactic: +3" Move to FLY Models; FLY Models (or embarkees) ignore cover and reroll 1s to hit w/ RF
Relic: 4++ after shadowfield fails
Trait: +1S +1A when charged or charging
Strat: +1 to Shoot FLY

Poisoned Tongue
Tactic: Reroll 1s to wound for melee and poison
Relic: Meh pistol
Trait: Use WL leadership w/i 12"
Strat: Re-deploy 3 units before start of battle

Obsidian Rose
Tactic: +6" to Assault, RF, and Heavy
Relic: 3+ Save (regular) and -1 to be hit in melee
Trait: +1 Damage for WL
Strat: Feeling models shoot or fight - if they kill something then none flee

To me is seems you'd still be using Black Heart for Ravagers and Vect, but there are other facets that could potentially be exploited for maybe some interesting melee or poison spam.

I don't think any Eldar needed buffs other than Ynnari getting a little more breathing room.

My night lords already get #1 on that list. If gw would add #4 (which we had at the end of 7th) I'd be thrilled. Wb players would probably take any ONE of those.

So what are you complaining about?

the Exarch Powers are also pretty nice, I'd love to have something like that for my Marine sergants

 harlokin wrote:



Is that that Incubi that don't get the benefit of Obsessions because they are mercs?

Ah, that's right. That just makes them not fun.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:



Is that that Incubi that don't get the benefit of Obsessions because they are mercs?

Ah, that's right. That just makes them not fun.

Yup, them being ok now, as opposed to utterly pointless before, makes them less fun than they should be.

 harlokin wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:



Is that that Incubi that don't get the benefit of Obsessions because they are mercs?

Ah, that's right. That just makes them not fun.

Yup, them being ok now, as opposed to utterly pointless before, makes them less fun than they should be.

I'd love to see a court get played though.

Archon with agoniser and a bunch of sslyth with d2 poison or Urghuls with exploding 6s.

I love the sslyth models so much.

Casual players complaining because they lack innovation and creativity? Cool...

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:



Is that that Incubi that don't get the benefit of Obsessions because they are mercs?

Ah, that's right. That just makes them not fun.

Yup, them being ok now, as opposed to utterly pointless before, makes them less fun than they should be.

I'd love to see a court get played though.

Archon with agoniser and a bunch of sslyth with d2 poison or Urghuls with exploding 6s.

I love the sslyth models so much.

Couldn't agree more, would be awesome. Maybe some cumulative benefit for each different court member type.

Hmm, well the auto wounds work for relics. So the +2a huskblade, +1a trait that heals when he kills and you got 8 power fist-ish attacks that auto wounds on 6s.

 vipoid wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
Yeah, we got pretty royally screwed here. GW are currently talking about PA2 giving "Supplement Level" content to the included factions, well I would have loved it if I got that for any of my 3 Eldar factions.

To be clear, the rumours suggest it'll be like Vigilus for the Traitor Legions, so a page or two each for relics, warlord triats and stratagems. This would have been nice for the Craftworlders and Drukhari and would have suggested some effort was being put in. Instead the Craftworlders got 5 ways to re-roll 1's, in an army that already has Guide, Autarchs and myriad unit specific abilities to do the same (and gained more from the new Exarch powers) whilst Kabals got 4 different combat based traits for the shooty faction and a moral buff, in an army that rarely cares much about moral.

Basically this.

Would it really have killed them to dream up some new Relics and Warlord Traits for Eldar and DE? Hell, I don't know about Eldar but I'm pretty sure there's still a pile of Relics in older DE books that they could just port into 8th.

But apparently even that would have too much effort.

Also, why nerf Word of the Phoenix of all things? I think I missed the part where it was dominating tournaments. Or even being used at all outside of fluff lists. Man, so glad the new GW is totally different from the old GW. They don't decide which units to nerf by using a dartboard anymore. No, sir! Now it's snooker all the way.

Welcome to Vigilus 3. errrmm i mean Psychic awakening.




Automatically Appended Next Post:


It's really a shame, some of the most fun stuff was in that court.
Even to play against, it was kinda like the whole personality of the DE army.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its incredibly thin.
From a DE perspective you get five pages, covering 2 datasheets and 3 sets of traits, almost all of which are worse than options you already have outside of niche cases (the as mentioned test of skill flyers for instance). There may be options for pure mix and match - but at the cost of giving up chapter specific warlord traits, relics and stratagems. Labyrinthine Cunning, Vect, Living Muse? That's a lot to give up unless you are having two kabal detachments (and I know many do for flayed skull, but still.)

Its unclear anything that wasn't viable before has been made so by this addition. So it isn't very interesting from a design perspective.

For CWE its a similar story. Okay, its even more unclear why you wouldn't max out your Crimson Hunter Exarchs - but the bulk of the rest is just fluffy sidegrades, and the successor craftworld traits as a whole are marginal. It may be worth getting cover and another ability rather than -1 to hit outside 12 but its not obviously game changing.

Ynnari cost reductions were obvious - but it doesn't change the fact the faction has been cut off at the knees. Funner to play casually - but not influencing the meta.

As for the fluff there is very little here.

For the sake of those without the book and/or familiarity with DE this is what is available:

PICK TWO
1) -1 ld bubble from DE units (no self-stack)
2) Fall back & Charge; One mortal wound on a 6 when enemies charge any number of units
3) Lose only one model to morale
4) Advance and charge rerolls; unmod 6s to hit in melee auto wounds (not vs VEHICLE/TITAN)
5) +3" Move to FLY models
6) Reroll 1s for FNP; Units w/o FNP gain it
7) Unmod 6s to wound with poison is +1 Damage (not on artefacts)
8) Deepstrike more out of webway portal

-- No specific relics, strats, traits

Versus:

Black Heart
Tactic: +1 to Power from Pain (better than the first half of 4 above); Units w/o FNP gain it
Relic : Reroll 1s to wound w/i 6''
Trait: Gain CP on a 6 for each CP used
Strat: Vect

Flayed Skull
Tactic: +3" Move to FLY Models; FLY Models (or embarkees) ignore cover and reroll 1s to hit w/ RF
Relic: 4++ after shadowfield fails
Trait: +1S +1A when charged or charging
Strat: +1 to Shoot FLY

Poisoned Tongue
Tactic: Reroll 1s to wound for melee and poison
Relic: Meh pistol
Trait: Use WL leadership w/i 12"
Strat: Re-deploy 3 units before start of battle

Obsidian Rose
Tactic: +6" to Assault, RF, and Heavy
Relic: 3+ Save (regular) and -1 to be hit in melee
Trait: +1 Damage for WL
Strat: Feeling models shoot or fight - if they kill something then none flee

To me is seems you'd still be using Black Heart for Ravagers and Vect, but there are other facets that could potentially be exploited for maybe some interesting melee or poison spam.

I don't think any Eldar needed buffs other than Ynnari getting a little more breathing room.

My night lords already get #1 on that list. If gw would add #4 (which we had at the end of 7th) I'd be thrilled. Wb players would probably take any ONE of those.

So what are you complaining about?

That they are rubbish and don't work very well. I mean, #1 is already the Dark Creed Coven trait and people have tried it, it doesn't have much effect, not to mention the entire army gets that from turn 5 anyway thanks to Power from Pain. Daedalus description of #4 is a little disingenuous, it's not straight up reroll Advance and Charge, it's to do it from turn 1 because we get that through our Power from Pain from turn 2 onwards and this army is rarely in a position to charge turn 1 anyway. The real problem is that these are Kabal triats, and the subfaction has no dedicated combat units that would want to get that close to your opponent except for Incubi and Mandrakes, neither of which get a trait.


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PenitentJake wrote:
Lots of people judge PA like it's an Eldar Supplement. It isn't. It was never advertised as such.

It is a 6-10 book story release affecting 24 factions, exerting its impact and being impacted by other releases and WD content, peppered with a random smattering of models from many factions spread across the story arc.

You judge, based on a single chapter, something that we will be playing through at least until spring and possibly beyond. It's true that the next two books look fairly marine centric, but I want to see what Emperor's Children get. I don't play Marines, but I do play Slaanesh, and if EC rules are good enough, I might increase the marine portion of the army.

When the Baal expansion drops in December, I might pick up Mephiston; I have the Blood Angels from Space Hulk to form an allied detachment. Not sure yet.

But please keep in mind what PA is as we go forward. It's not about any one faction- it's about all of them, and it's just getting started.

Maybe you should try reading the thread again people aren't complaining about Psychic Awakening in total, at least not here, but about Phoenix Rising in particular, and that first book is probably going to be the only one relevant to my armies and so it being really poor is deserving of criticism.

The next book has nothing in it of any concern to me, but it seems increasingly clear that the second book will offer more to it's included factions than the first book did for theirs.

9

 Imateria wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its incredibly thin.
From a DE perspective you get five pages, covering 2 datasheets and 3 sets of traits, almost all of which are worse than options you already have outside of niche cases (the as mentioned test of skill flyers for instance). There may be options for pure mix and match - but at the cost of giving up chapter specific warlord traits, relics and stratagems. Labyrinthine Cunning, Vect, Living Muse? That's a lot to give up unless you are having two kabal detachments (and I know many do for flayed skull, but still.)

Its unclear anything that wasn't viable before has been made so by this addition. So it isn't very interesting from a design perspective.

For CWE its a similar story. Okay, its even more unclear why you wouldn't max out your Crimson Hunter Exarchs - but the bulk of the rest is just fluffy sidegrades, and the successor craftworld traits as a whole are marginal. It may be worth getting cover and another ability rather than -1 to hit outside 12 but its not obviously game changing.

Ynnari cost reductions were obvious - but it doesn't change the fact the faction has been cut off at the knees. Funner to play casually - but not influencing the meta.

As for the fluff there is very little here.

For the sake of those without the book and/or familiarity with DE this is what is available:

PICK TWO
1) -1 ld bubble from DE units (no self-stack)
2) Fall back & Charge; One mortal wound on a 6 when enemies charge any number of units
3) Lose only one model to morale
4) Advance and charge rerolls; unmod 6s to hit in melee auto wounds (not vs VEHICLE/TITAN)
5) +3" Move to FLY models
6) Reroll 1s for FNP; Units w/o FNP gain it
7) Unmod 6s to wound with poison is +1 Damage (not on artefacts)
8) Deepstrike more out of webway portal

-- No specific relics, strats, traits

Versus:

Black Heart
Tactic: +1 to Power from Pain (better than the first half of 4 above); Units w/o FNP gain it
Relic : Reroll 1s to wound w/i 6''
Trait: Gain CP on a 6 for each CP used
Strat: Vect

Flayed Skull
Tactic: +3" Move to FLY Models; FLY Models (or embarkees) ignore cover and reroll 1s to hit w/ RF
Relic: 4++ after shadowfield fails
Trait: +1S +1A when charged or charging
Strat: +1 to Shoot FLY

Poisoned Tongue
Tactic: Reroll 1s to wound for melee and poison
Relic: Meh pistol
Trait: Use WL leadership w/i 12"
Strat: Re-deploy 3 units before start of battle

Obsidian Rose
Tactic: +6" to Assault, RF, and Heavy
Relic: 3+ Save (regular) and -1 to be hit in melee
Trait: +1 Damage for WL
Strat: Feeling models shoot or fight - if they kill something then none flee

To me is seems you'd still be using Black Heart for Ravagers and Vect, but there are other facets that could potentially be exploited for maybe some interesting melee or poison spam.

I don't think any Eldar needed buffs other than Ynnari getting a little more breathing room.

My night lords already get #1 on that list. If gw would add #4 (which we had at the end of 7th) I'd be thrilled. Wb players would probably take any ONE of those.

So what are you complaining about?

That they are rubbish and don't work very well. I mean, #1 is already the Dark Creed Coven trait and people have tried it, it doesn't have much effect, not to mention the entire army gets that from turn 5 anyway thanks to Power from Pain. Daedalus description of #4 is a little disingenuous, it's not straight up reroll Advance and Charge, it's to do it from turn 1 because we get that through our Power from Pain from turn 2 onwards and this army is rarely in a position to charge turn 1 anyway. The real problem is that these are Kabal triats, and the subfaction has no dedicated combat units that would want to get that close to your opponent except for Incubi and Mandrakes, neither of which get a trait.

The point is that ALL night lords get is #1 which, yes, doesn't do much and de can take that or any other trait PLUS another trait from the list.

Also last I checked no one but eldar players thought they needed more useful traits, strategems, etc. Eldar are pretty good and have been for a few editions. If they got the full sm treatment they would be broken.

Maybe eldar didn't get ad much help because they didn't need as much help.