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 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I'm mainly a marine player and please god don';t drop good marine unit points. Please, PLEASE, don't do this. They're already so very good. STAHP IT

They are marines. What do you expect?-)

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Considering the sheer incompetence of Game Designers at GW, they might have buffed Marines even more whilst nerfing other armies

The last ca nerfed a lot of units that didn't need to be nerfed.
So yes whilest unfortunate it is possible, i hope not but frankly i'd not be surprised if it happened.

Darsath wrote:
I still don't find this rumour believable. Games Workshop has done too much recent damage to afford such a big mis-step. I give it a 5% chance of happening, and only because of the source.

if its more like AOS V 2 that would be ok by me.

CA did some wierd stuff last time like buffing Tank Commanders

 Mr Morden wrote:

Darsath wrote:
I still don't find this rumour believable. Games Workshop has done too much recent damage to afford such a big mis-step. I give it a 5% chance of happening, and only because of the source.

if its more like AOS V 2 that would be ok by me.

CA did some wierd stuff last time like buffing Tank Commanders

I think widening the gap is the opposite of what CA is meant to do.

This whole marine codex stinks of some kind of weird release pipeline feth-up.

I almost wonder if the new SM Codex was originally supposed to come out after Chapter Approved 2019 and Psychic Awakening (where other factions are getting little tweaks and buffs).

Quasistellar wrote:
This whole marine codex stinks of some kind of weird release pipeline feth-up.

I almost wonder if the new SM Codex was originally supposed to come out after Chapter Approved 2019 and Psychic Awakening (where other factions are getting little tweaks and buffs).

I suppose we'll find out soon enough what's going on behind the scenes.

 Galas wrote:
This seem to be a curated leak to cause controversy.

I agree some of it is just a little too... inflamatory. I mean "GW is concerned marines would be underpowered"? that seems unlikely.

Due to the nature of how CA is written in advance, I think it's very reasonable to expect changes that would address what the game was like months ago before marines:

Cheap infantry like guardsmen and grots up in points
Negative hit modifiers
Flyers
Plaguebearer nerf of some kind

The only hope right now is GW didn't lower marine costs as the book would be released prior to CA19.

Unfortunately I think this CA could be a massive dump of fuel on the current fire. Maybe there will be a bunch of early errata to CA like the IH supplement. But if that's required it just further begs the question of why are players paying for outdated balance patches?

I would love to be wrong and for GW to show some foresight with the changes, but I'm skeptical. Definitely holding off on any model purchases until I see CA19.

I suspect if marines have their points lowered it will be more "blood angels, darks angels, space wolves your points are now x" x being "in line with codex SM

I do still also hope for csm equivalents to see a pts drop.

Alas

Not Online!!! wrote:
I do still also hope for csm equivalents to see a pts drop.

Alas

I can't imagine them not updating the points costs for marines from the "other marine books"

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I do still also hope for csm equivalents to see a pts drop.

Alas

I can't imagine them not updating the points costs for marines from the "other marine books"

I can. That's a direct, normal result of having different marine codex. But I am all in favor of consolidating all of them in a marine codex, possibly with supplements.

Well, one ray of hope for CSM is that they just got a new plastic kit. So while they aren't loyalist Space Marines, GW still may want to move some unit and this throw them a bone on some points drops

Or not. They're just as likely to think "it's a new kit, it will sell regardless of being balanced"

-

Quasistellar wrote:
This whole marine codex stinks of some kind of weird release pipeline feth-up.

I almost wonder if the new SM Codex was originally supposed to come out after Chapter Approved 2019 and Psychic Awakening (where other factions are getting little tweaks and buffs).

Pa was obviously meant to come after sm 2.0. The black templars stuff in faith and fury proves that.

As for that "leak", I smell a troll.

I would be happy to see CSM get some upgrade sprues like the Primaris Marines.

It's nice to have the Horus Heresy helmets for Alpha Legion, but I'd like to see a more corrupted version of those helmets.

I have a question: if Cult Marines are getting 2 wounds now, doesn’t that mean DG termies and stuff should go up a wound as well? Potentially in their next codex. Damn, that would make them nutso survivable.

CA does not change datasheets.

CA does not change stratagems.

CA does not change rules from codici.

CA does not update costs of factions which had a codex release recently.

Yeah, it could happen that there is an exception to ONE of those points, but all together? Not going to happen.

The rumors going around right now are obvious fakes, crafted just to stir the community. Man, in the past you needed to be much smarter when forging fakes, now people are willing to believe everything...

Spoletta wrote:
CA does not change datasheets.
.

Well yeah, except that it's in fact hard no.

SM need a serious points drop - I'm just not winning convincingly enough

Sumilidon wrote:
SM need a serious points drop - I'm just not winning convincingly enough

Sure. Just a pity we'll have the same odd confusion we had last year when there were two separate sets of point values for Orks in the autumn Codex and in CA, because "two separate teams" in that 10-people office were working on them separately without communicating, lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I have a question: if Cult Marines are getting 2 wounds now, doesn’t that mean DG termies and stuff should go up a wound as well? Potentially in their next codex. Damn, that would make them nutso survivable.

Depends on which 2-wound cult marines rumour you're talking about.

Do you mean the rumour of Noise Marines getting two wounds in their summer Emperor's Children release with Fulgrim and some weird Slaanesh Marine Cavalry unit?

Do you mean the Cult Marines getting two wounds in the Slaanesh vs. Black Templars box with a Primaris Emperor's Champion mini rumour?

Do you mean the Cult Marines get a two wounds in a Chaos Marines Codex 2.0 do-over (2.5?) rumour?

Do you mean the Cult Marines get two wounds in PA2: Faith and Fury rumour?

Do you mean the Cult Marines get two wounds in Chapter Approved rumour?

It's kinda hard to keep track these days .....

If the rumors are true lol. So marines get stronger still, and guard get nerfed as well as ad mech. Oh man, can't wait. What a bunch of..insert angry words here.

While I do worry about more marines points drops, thinking about it there are a few units that are not taken due to their cost.

Prime example being Hellblasters. Easily killed but are rediculous expensive per model. If I was to repoint them, they would drop to the cost of an intercessor marine currently, and all gun option stay the same cost of the plasma incinerator, so you can easily swap out different types without paying a 2pts tax on the heavy plasma incinerator that nobody uses.

Everybody is going crazy about marines getting point drops, being OP etc..... Marines were bottom tier for 2 years (even with new model releases, which is tragic) while IG, eldar, dark eldar, demons, tau and a lot of other factions were dominating the 40k scene and were auto win against marines . Now that GW gave them a very much needed boost and brought them more in line with those armies and maybe made them better from some of them (eldar/ dak eldar are still better if you ask me) everybody started crying... Everybody else is ok to ride the power creep train but marines are not allowed to...

Ok they went over the top with iron hands (flavor of the month like what happened with knights, dark eldar, alatoic eldar , etc) but all the other chapters have still overcosted units and their rules are not broken good...

PS1 : I dont play vanilla marines by the way , i play space wolves and i am struggling for years to win a casual game with more than 1 or 2 models on the board and not be "auto loose" if i go second.

PS2: The point drops in marines will probably be the adjustments for SW,BA and DA to bring them in line with the new SM codex points (SM codex was probably written after CA2019 so there wont be major point changes) and point drops for the ridiculously overcosted special units (looking at you thunderwolves,wulfen, frost weapons and many more)

 Omega-soul wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
CA does not change datasheets.
.

Well yeah, except that it's in fact hard no.

Spoiler:

I repeat.

CA does not change datasheets.

You brought an example of realigning datasheets that existed in multiple versions in various publications, but the most updated intercessor datasheet had already been publicated elsewhere.

Never before CA has changed a specific rule or a profile. That is what FAQs are for.

 lonewolf81 wrote:
Everybody is going crazy about marines getting point drops, being OP etc..... Marines were bottom tier for 2 years (even with new model releases, which is tragic) while IG, eldar, dark eldar, demons, tau and a lot of other factions were dominating the 40k scene and were auto win against marines . Now that GW gave them a very much needed boost and brought them more in line with those armies and maybe made them better from some of them (eldar/ dak eldar are still better if you ask me) everybody started crying... Everybody else is ok to ride the power creep train but marines are not allowed to...

Codex Marines were not 'bottom tier', ever. Their most competitive build(s) placed in the top 4 semi regularly even before their shiny new codex and the win rate for certain sub factions was above 50%. Which is exactly like all other factions in the game, more or less. The issue was that Brother Captain Dornson who plays pure IF wanted HIS boys to be best, so did Chaplain Rides-a-bike of the WS and so on and so forth. For some reason marine players seem to believe that they are entitled to more than every other faction in that each of their sub factions should also be top tier, competitive choices.

GW have reacted as strongly as they have (made all Marines OP) in my opinion because of the relentless whining that we've had for the past 18 months while marines weren't OP by the biggest proportion of the player base.

Finally - don't get confused on the current meta. Codex marines are absolutely broken. Their competitive stats reflect this. If they aren't fixed, and by fixed I mean nerfed, heavily, the game will suffer. I shared this in the Ork thread but FYI Marines make up 25% of all players at a tournament on average yet they make up 45% of all players that go 4-0 at a tournament on average. Insane numbers. Iron Hands, even if we discount all data before their nerf, are a joke - roughly 10% of all players at events but 27% of all players who go 4-0. Marines are absolutely fethed and they are literally breaking the competitive scene.

 lonewolf81 wrote:
Everybody is going crazy about marines getting point drops, being OP etc..... Marines were bottom tier for 2 years (even with new model releases, which is tragic) while IG, eldar, dark eldar, demons, tau and a lot of other factions were dominating the 40k scene and were auto win against marines . Now that GW gave them a very much needed boost and brought them more in line with those armies and maybe made them better from some of them (eldar/ dak eldar are still better if you ask me) everybody started crying... Everybody else is ok to ride the power creep train but marines are not allowed to...

Ok they went over the top with iron hands (flavor of the month like what happened with knights, dark eldar, alatoic eldar , etc) but all the other chapters have still overcosted units and their rules are not broken good...

PS1 : I dont play vanilla marines by the way , i play space wolves and i am struggling for years to win a casual game with more than 1 or 2 models on the board and not be "auto loose" if i go second.

PS2: The point drops in marines will probably be the adjustments for SW,BA and DA to bring them in line with the new SM codex points (SM codex was probably written after CA2019 so there wont be major point changes) and point drops for the ridiculously overcosted special units (looking at you thunderwolves,wulfen, frost weapons and many more)

Riiiiiight. Marines of all flavour from normal codex absolutely dominating tournaments even more than eldars ever did(imperium soup was still generally king) is fine and dandy. Whopedopedoo. Oh and past wrong does not make bigger wrong right.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Marines are absolutely fethed and they are literally breaking the competitive scene.

And before people chime in with the "well then don't play competitive" lines, this kind of imbalance between armies is terrible for all types of play as it makes balancing out narrative scenarios, casual and campaign play much more difficult.

Trying to play out a narrative scenario where some defenders are desperately trying to hold the line against an overwhelming attacking force doesn't work when the defenders stomp the attackers because even though the attackers had double the points, the defenders were 3 times as powerful. It also doesn't work when the attackers just sweep aside the defenders with no effort.

The story of the Defence of Rorke's Drift, for example, would not have been improved by giving either side chainguns.

Lets agree to disagree...

First of all if you are referring to guilliman castle as marines doing well the previous years and everything else being garbage ...dude please...

Tournaments will always spam the flavor of the month .... how many lists where doing well using IG 32 and imperial knight detachments, alatoic flyer spam, dark eldar ravager spam when they were the top dogs... 98% of the tourney lists?

It is the marines time to be the flavor of the month that's all

Outside of the tournament lists (which i personally hate because they are WAAC and they are expected to be when prizes are involved) marines got a much needed boost with some of them (iron hands) being over the top like black heart /prophets of flesh dark eldar, alatoic eldar,IG, castellans etc when they first came out. This always happened and always will happen... you have to be the lucky faction to get the flavor of the month until it gets nerfed...
the bottom line is marines needed the boost.. some of them got more than they deserve but you cant put every marine chapter in the same basket (like GW did with the nerfs cause of guilliman)

 lonewolf81 wrote:

the bottom line is marines needed the boost..

No. Marines may have needed a boost but certainly not this boost which is of such ridiculous size.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Marines are absolutely fethed and they are literally breaking the competitive scene.

And before people chime in with the "well then don't play competitive" lines, this kind of imbalance between armies is terrible for all types of play as it makes balancing out narrative scenarios, casual and campaign play much more difficult.

Trying to play out a narrative scenario where some defenders are desperately trying to hold the line against an overwhelming attacking force doesn't work when the defenders stomp the attackers because even though the attackers had double the points, the defenders were 3 times as powerful. It also doesn't work when the attackers just sweep aside the defenders with no effort.

The story of the Defence of Rorke's Drift, for example, would not have been improved by giving either side chainguns.

I stated that i am lucky as in my friend and diehard IH literally does not want to touch the supplement, but even then, i did run a Mass assault CSM list arround RC and no shortage of Corsars.
Whereas that list has little problems against most factions, depending on terrain, marines turn that so hard on it's head that i normally don't even get to recycle anymore.
and yes that list includes 55 CSM and 30 cultists.

I find that ammount of firepower disgusting and the added insult that the equivalent units are BETTER and CHEAPER, even tough they are literally or should literally be interchangabel outright stupid.