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If CHE don't get a points bump I will finally add 1 or 2 to my list. Not sure the Hemlock needs an adjustment, it's already at 210pts. Dark Talon at 200pts needs to come back down though, maybe not to it's earlier 160pt cost, but for sure to 175 or 180.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
So, I'm not sure if anybody else knows more, but my friend who works in printing pointed out that softback books of this style tend to take less lead time to print and bind.

I imagined that would be the case, but it was good to hear it's a possibility. Would help separate the timelines between all the other things that need to go into the CA book and points changes, which, if my friend is correct, could mean they would be free to print later than they have in the past.

What changes the lead time is colour or B&W, and Far East or European printing (Italy/Poland most likely).

My guess is that they print Codexes in the Far East, and CA in Europe.

It's printed in China.

 Jidmah wrote:
Big Meks?

Presumably refers to shock attack guns. MA KFF mek is already suboptimal and the non-MA will be removed from tournament recommendations with legends so not many big meks to nerf to death

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Big Meks?

Presumably refers to shock attack guns. MA KFF mek is already suboptimal and the non-MA will be removed from tournament recommendations with legends so not many big meks to nerf to death

They're not undercosted though. Popular doesn't mean good for orks' HQs because we need 6ish of them, and only a few HQs are decent. Plus there's rule of three. SAGs are decent for 80 points, but far from being really good. Only the relic one is but tipycally it costs also +2CPs (because we really want that Klaw) which sucks.

Really, only Smasha Gunz deserve to go up a little bit in points (40ppm should be ok) in the ork codex. 75% of the codex should be cheaper, or with better rules but the latter is not going to happen before the new codex.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Big Meks?

For sure, people are taking them in tournament lists. Not marine unit in tournament list bad, need 30% nerf!

Ah, for a second I thought you were serious about that

 Jidmah wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Big Meks?

For sure, people are taking them in tournament lists. Not marine unit in tournament list bad, need 30% nerf!

Ah, for a second I thought you were serious about that

Oh I am serious. I fully expect a nerf to either the point cost of the SAG or the point cost of the big mek body. Probably also the Mega Armor big mek body too because, I dunno, feth it.

 Blackie wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Big Meks?

Presumably refers to shock attack guns. MA KFF mek is already suboptimal and the non-MA will be removed from tournament recommendations with legends so not many big meks to nerf to death

They're not undercosted though. Popular doesn't mean good for orks' HQs because we need 6ish of them, and only a few HQs are decent. Plus there's rule of three. SAGs are decent for 80 points, but far from being really good. Only the relic one is but tipycally it costs also +2CPs (because we really want that Klaw) which sucks.

Really, only Smasha Gunz deserve to go up a little bit in points (40ppm should be ok) in the ork codex. 75% of the codex should be cheaper, or with better rules but the latter is not going to happen before the new codex.

It's ork unit that gets used a lot. That equals to nerf incoming. Irrelevant is it undercosted or not. Gw isn't aiming for balance anyway with these. Just making sure people stop using what they have been using and buy new units to replace them

 Jidmah wrote:
Big Meks?

He s talking about the SSAG, the most unstable unit in the game. So unstable that NOBODY has been able to make any prediction anywhere real reality. Nobody on this forum, nobody on Reddit, not even the guy that made the mathammered app. A model that cost a special detachment and a relic. THAT guy need to be fixed.....

Also 3 points BS4 WS5 T2 S2 6+ with NO abilties beside DDD and be used for ONE stratgems. THEY need to go up in points. One of the TWO troops choice orks have. THEY are broken....

I ll give him my hat so he can be happy. Even my peruvian one, the one made of wool, that would give him some time to reflect before writing again such folly.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/25/chapter-approved-points-updates-to-look-out-forgw-homepage-post-1/

the_scotsman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Big Meks?

For sure, people are taking them in tournament lists. Not marine unit in tournament list bad, need 30% nerf!

Ah, for a second I thought you were serious about that

Oh I am serious. I fully expect a nerf to either the point cost of the SAG or the point cost of the big mek body. Probably also the Mega Armor big mek body too because, I dunno, feth it.

Are you fething joking right?

The big mek in MA with KFF is 122 points. ONE HUNDRED TWENTY TWO POINTS.

So point reduction for Necrons (ok fair) Grey Knights (ok the one marines for which it's fair) and Dark Angels (?).
Thankfully none advertised for vanilla.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So point reduction for Necrons (ok fair) Grey Knights (ok the one marines for which it's fair) and Dark Angels (?).
Thankfully none advertised for vanilla.

17ppm for a strike and a tac marine is at, what now... 12ppm? 4 points for a storm bolter, 1 point for a force weapon and psychic power access. Seems pretty not terrible? Their special weapon list is still kind of made of ass, and it's hilarious that vanilla marines marines now have the choice of like 54 psychic powers while a GK player is still starting the game asking "Hmmm, how shall I divvy up my 6 powers among all the units in this army...."

the_scotsman wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So point reduction for Necrons (ok fair) Grey Knights (ok the one marines for which it's fair) and Dark Angels (?).
Thankfully none advertised for vanilla.

17ppm for a strike and a tac marine is at, what now... 12ppm? 4 points for a storm bolter, 1 point for a force weapon and psychic power access. Seems pretty not terrible? Their special weapon list is still kind of made of ass, and it's hilarious that vanilla marines marines now have the choice of like 54 psychic powers while a GK player is still starting the game asking "Hmmm, how shall I divvy up my 6 powers among all the units in this army...."

Yup. Its a step in the right direction, but without further structural change its a bandaid on a gaping wound.

The problem is that 17ppm for a 1W 3+SV model is... yikes.

Rumor has it Grey Knights will be getting a substantial update when it becomes their turn for Psychic Awakening. We should get a good idea of how big that can be when Blood of Baal gets spoliered and we see the updates for Blood Angels.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So point reduction for Necrons (ok fair) Grey Knights (ok the one marines for which it's fair) and Dark Angels (?).
Thankfully none advertised for vanilla.

17ppm for a strike and a tac marine is at, what now... 12ppm? 4 points for a storm bolter, 1 point for a force weapon and psychic power access. Seems pretty not terrible? Their special weapon list is still kind of made of ass, and it's hilarious that vanilla marines marines now have the choice of like 54 psychic powers while a GK player is still starting the game asking "Hmmm, how shall I divvy up my 6 powers among all the units in this army...."

Well, and native deepstrike, which is probably their biggest asset. But with everyone gearing to kill Marines, not to mention Marines themselves throwing out heavily AP modified shots like there's no tomorrow, they're probably still not worth it for their output and still too expensive to just pay the Batallion-tax and have them stay off the table as long as possible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alextroy wrote:
Rumor has it Grey Knights will be getting a substantial update when it becomes their turn for Psychic Awakening. We should get a good idea of how big that can be when Blood of Baal gets spoliered and we see the updates for Blood Angels.

Well it certainly can't be less of an update than Ynnari got, lol.

10pt increase on the Razorwing Jetfighter to 115. Not good, I'm assuming this is a change to the base cost of 105 and it's not needed, at 135 with it's cheapest and most common loadout I found it to be fair but not overpowered, and we don't know of any points changes to weapons either.

If it's 115 fully louded then thats just insane as well.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So point reduction for Necrons (ok fair) Grey Knights (ok the one marines for which it's fair) and Dark Angels (?).
Thankfully none advertised for vanilla.

Any marine army that isn't covered by C:SM is pretty trash atm. DA, BA, and SW weren't seeing as much success as C:SM BEFORE the book (outside of smash captains) and GK are notoriously the worst army in the game.

I love it... we’ve gotten to the point where marines are complaining about other marines and what theyve gotten.

 Galas wrote:
The problem is that 17ppm for a 1W 3+SV model is... yikes.

At least YOURS aren't T3 S3.

2 point cheaper strikes isn’t going to do much for GKs. Their flaws are intrinsic and token point drops won’t fix it. We still are garbage at deepstriking, have awful psychic powers, nowhere near enough power choice compared to the number of psykers we have, and have generally poor ranged combat (excluding storm bolsters.). The announcement smells of ‘GKs will be the big winner this CA’ and I’m not falling for it. I simply don’t trust GW in this matter.

 Imateria wrote:
10pt increase on the Razorwing Jetfighter to 115. Not good, I'm assuming this is a change to the base cost of 105 and it's not needed, at 135 with it's cheapest and most common loadout I found it to be fair but not overpowered, and we don't know of any points changes to weapons either.

If it's 115 fully louded then thats just insane as well.

Don't think so. They said it went up, not down.

Though I think they are still too cheap. Too many armies like GSC, Khorne Daemons, etc... just have insufficient tools to deal with Flyer models.

The virtual immunity to a fair share of armies should have a (higher) cost.

chnmmr wrote:
2 point cheaper strikes isn’t going to do much for GKs. Their flaws are intrinsic and token point drops won’t fix it. We still are garbage at deepstriking, have awful psychic powers, nowhere near enough power choice compared to the number of psykers we have, and have generally poor ranged combat (excluding storm bolsters.). The announcement smells of ‘GKs will be the big winner this CA’ and I’m not falling for it. I simply don’t trust GW in this matter.

Well, those are just the first things they've mentioned, hopefully there is a bunch more.

 Crazyterran wrote:

chnmmr wrote:
2 point cheaper strikes isn’t going to do much for GKs. Their flaws are intrinsic and token point drops won’t fix it. We still are garbage at deepstriking, have awful psychic powers, nowhere near enough power choice compared to the number of psykers we have, and have generally poor ranged combat (excluding storm bolsters.). The announcement smells of ‘GKs will be the big winner this CA’ and I’m not falling for it. I simply don’t trust GW in this matter.

Well, those are just the first things they've mentioned, hopefully there is a bunch more.

And with ALL points for ALL factions being released here, it may take some time before wee see the full implications of what really did change.
2ppm cheaper Strikes, plus increases for other stuff like Guard Infantry and Aeldari Flyers might be enough to at least my GKs not the worst army in 40K.

Give every GK unit Psybolt ammo for free (in the same way DW have SIA and vanilla Marines have Combat Doctrines) and GKs don't look so bad. It's a patch, but a good one

-

These changes are hard to judge without all the context. For example, as a Necron player, I'm looking forward to running Praetorians for only 20 points per model, but I don't see that changing much in the army (they have almost 0 synergy). It's units like Warriors who would change that.

ERJAK wrote:

 Galas wrote:
The problem is that 17ppm for a 1W 3+SV model is... yikes.

At least YOURS aren't T3 S3.

Come on now, a Fire Dragon is only 24 points with its fusion gun...

https://m.facebook.com/420830645026189/posts/809799582795958/

chnmmr wrote:
2 point cheaper strikes isn’t going to do much for GKs. Their flaws are intrinsic and token point drops won’t fix it. We still are garbage at deepstriking, have awful psychic powers, nowhere near enough power choice compared to the number of psykers we have, and have generally poor ranged combat (excluding storm bolsters.). The announcement smells of ‘GKs will be the big winner this CA’ and I’m not falling for it. I simply don’t trust GW in this matter.

4 points actually, they are currently 21 with their loadout.

stormcraft wrote:
https://m.facebook.com/420830645026189/posts/809799582795958/

Rehosted:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
10pt increase on the Razorwing Jetfighter to 115. Not good, I'm assuming this is a change to the base cost of 105 and it's not needed, at 135 with it's cheapest and most common loadout I found it to be fair but not overpowered, and we don't know of any points changes to weapons either.

If it's 115 fully louded then thats just insane as well.

Don't think so. They said it went up, not down.

Though I think they are still too cheap. Too many armies like GSC, Khorne Daemons, etc... just have insufficient tools to deal with Flyer models.

The virtual immunity to a fair share of armies should have a (higher) cost.

They're not, Daemons can take them out with Winged Daemon Princes and for a Jetfighter it's terribad at dealing with other flyers. It's damage output is only ever OK as well, not aweful but not great, it certianly doesn't have the mass of bonuses built in like the CHE.