Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 catbarf wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

stormcraft wrote:
https://m.facebook.com/420830645026189/posts/809799582795958/

demon prince dropping in pts?
Manipulus dropping like 30 pts?

how is this even remotely legit????

The Manipulus is currently a big waste of points, so that seems reasonable to me. Can't comment on the Prince.

I'm very interested in 7pt Scions. I've been thinking that bare squads (no HSVG or plasma) are reasonably viable when you take FRFSRF into account, and a points drop on the base unit might make that moreso.

Maybe grenade launchers/flamers will be more worth taking if they're carried by cheaper platforms.

Flamers only if you're running Valks. Otherwise just stick with all Plasma.

However, at that cheap a price point they're more viable as a stand alone army.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Probably needs to be said. The article bounces between fully equipped and base cost. The facebook is purely their base point value. So banshees are down 2pts to 11 and harlies similar.

Harlequins are 13 points base costs. Lol.

Geared up, they make Grey Knight Strike Squads (pre point-drop) look like a bargain.

2 fully geared troop-choice Harlequins cost as much as a single Assault Centurion WITH hurricane bolter, lol.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Probably needs to be said. The article bounces between fully equipped and base cost. The facebook is purely their base point value. So banshees are down 2pts to 11 and harlies similar.

Harlequins are 13 points base costs. Lol.

Geared up, they make Grey Knight Strike Squads (pre point-drop) look like a bargain.

2 fully geared troop-choice Harlequins cost as much as a single Assault Centurion WITH hurricane bolter, lol.

Better Harlequins than Grey Knights though.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

2 fully geared troop-choice Harlequins cost as much as a single Assault Centurion WITH hurricane bolter, lol.

Thats what you get for having a 4++ on your T3 1W bodies that ignore all the rules in the game!!! /s

Its sad how harlequins are currently only elites and fast attacks, i hope these changes let them be an actual solo faction.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Probably needs to be said. The article bounces between fully equipped and base cost. The facebook is purely their base point value. So banshees are down 2pts to 11 and harlies similar.

What does a harlequin pay for in its base point cost? I'm seeing 13ppm as the base cost with the S user AP- D1 sword and the 0 pt pistol.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Probably needs to be said. The article bounces between fully equipped and base cost. The facebook is purely their base point value. So banshees are down 2pts to 11 and harlies similar.

What does a harlequin pay for in its base point cost? I'm seeing 13ppm as the base cost with the S user AP- D1 sword and the 0 pt pistol.

13 pts for sucky clowns.

then it goes to 20 with a fusion or a good melee weapon.

100pts for 5 6" melta shots.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Probably needs to be said. The article bounces between fully equipped and base cost. The facebook is purely their base point value. So banshees are down 2pts to 11 and harlies similar.

What does a harlequin pay for in its base point cost? I'm seeing 13ppm as the base cost with the S user AP- D1 sword and the 0 pt pistol.

13 pts for sucky clowns.

then it goes to 20 with a fusion or a good melee weapon.

100pts for 5 6" melta shots.

Yeah Im just confused by the "9 to 7" points drop.

the_scotsman wrote:

Yeah Im just confused by the "9 to 7" points drop.

Even money says its a copy/paste error from the Banshee entry.

Sterling191 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Yeah Im just confused by the "9 to 7" points drop.

Even money says its a copy/paste error from the Banshee entry.

So, likely 13 to 11 for a harlequin.

what a joke when compared to marine stuff, lol. Wow! FOUR S3 Ap- D1 melee attacks! A whole shuriken pistol!

the_scotsman wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Yeah Im just confused by the "9 to 7" points drop.

Even money says its a copy/paste error from the Banshee entry.

So, likely 13 to 11 for a harlequin.

what a joke when compared to marine stuff, lol. Wow! FOUR S3 Ap- D1 melee attacks! A whole shuriken pistol!

depends, it might be from 13 to 7 and the cause of the error was that the intern who make the pic only looked at the last number. Still , until they clear it up, i wont get my hopes up.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

depends, it might be from 13 to 7 and the cause of the error was that the intern who make the pic only looked at the last number. Still , until they clear it up, i wont get my hopes up.

65 points for a fully tooled up Troupe squad would be insanity.

Lol, probably a copy/paste issue then. The rest look right for base cost of the models before wargear. Hopefully that means a 2pt drop down to a starting point of 11 for them.

 Oguhmek wrote:
Not a single mention of Ork units, which makes me think those grot and mek nerf rumors might actually be true. Yeah, the squigbuggy is a great choice at 135pts compared to an armiger at 145. And the stompa is still definitely worth 925... right?

I swear to God I'll spam the GW site and IG into Oblivion if they do that

 Emicrania wrote:

 Oguhmek wrote:
Not a single mention of Ork units, which makes me think those grot and mek nerf rumors might actually be true. Yeah, the squigbuggy is a great choice at 135pts compared to an armiger at 145. And the stompa is still definitely worth 925... right?

I swear to God I'll spam the GW site and IG into Oblivion if they do that

agree, not only is that absurd imo, but it also steps on a lot of units toes, like dreadnoughts? Why field a hellbrute, or decimator, or any other such thing if i can just throw down a cheap wardog and call it a day.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
Still wouldn't take Reavers at 16ppm though, they just don't have any real utility anymore.

Really? I never looked at them before, but now that I am...are they really that worthless?

Seems like there's some kind of cool stuff there from PA for them.

Damage output, and the lack thereoff. Unlike every other biker squad in the game they only get a standard splinter rifle, not a twin version so their shooting is terrible even at 16ppm. Their special ranged weapons are at least Assault, but you can only take 1 per 3, the Heat Lance is a S6 melta and doesn't have enough shots to be used for elite hunting so is useless at any points cost whilst the Blaster is expensive (will cost more than the bike if it stays at 17pts) and suffers from you only ever rolling 1 dice with no access to any re-rolls beyond a CP. In combat they've only got 2 S4, AP-1 D1 attacks each which for a combat unit is terrible. Yes, this can be boosted with Cult of Strife for +1A on the charge, but this costs you access to Red Grief's Advance and Charge trait, or with a combat drug but unless you're going full Wych Cult that only really ever applies to one unit. They're also not that survivable, the proliferation of mid strength, high rate of fire, multi damge weapons like Dissintegrators, auto cannons, missile pods, plasma etc means with a 4+ save they die very fast.

Phoenix Rising didn't do much to fix them, I've tried Test of Skill for the +1 to wound against Vehicles and Monsters but saw no notable improvement in damage output whilst Slashing Impact never really generated the extra wounds for me that I needed it to. It's also worth remembering that these two traits, which most people seem to think ar ethe best, dont work together as one is against infantry and bikers whilst the other is against vehicles and monsters.

The best way to run them seems to be with Red Grief to move 26" and then charge turn 1 to try and tie up your opponents shooting since they just can't kill anything.

 Imateria wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
Still wouldn't take Reavers at 16ppm though, they just don't have any real utility anymore.

Really? I never looked at them before, but now that I am...are they really that worthless?

Seems like there's some kind of cool stuff there from PA for them.

Damage output, and the lack thereoff. Unlike every other biker squad in the game they only get a standard splinter rifle, not a twin version so their shooting is terrible even at 16ppm. Their special ranged weapons are at least Assault, but you can only take 1 per 3, the Heat Lance is a S6 melta and doesn't have enough shots to be used for elite hunting so is useless at any points cost whilst the Blaster is expensive (will cost more than the bike if it stays at 17pts) and suffers from you only ever rolling 1 dice with no access to any re-rolls beyond a CP. In combat they've only got 2 S4, AP-1 D1 attacks each which for a combat unit is terrible. Yes, this can be boosted with Cult of Strife for +1A on the charge, but this costs you access to Red Grief's Advance and Charge trait, or with a combat drug but unless you're going full Wych Cult that only really ever applies to one unit. They're also not that survivable, the proliferation of mid strength, high rate of fire, multi damge weapons like Dissintegrators, auto cannons, missile pods, plasma etc means with a 4+ save they die very fast.

Phoenix Rising didn't do much to fix them, I've tried Test of Skill for the +1 to wound against Vehicles and Monsters but saw no notable improvement in damage output whilst Slashing Impact never really generated the extra wounds for me that I needed it to. It's also worth remembering that these two traits, which most people seem to think ar ethe best, dont work together as one is against infantry and bikers whilst the other is against vehicles and monsters.

The best way to run them seems to be with Red Grief to move 26" and then charge turn 1 to try and tie up your opponents shooting since they just can't kill anything.

Hmm, well, I was imagining slashing impact, 3x grav talons, and maybe reroll charges. Or exploding 6s to hit and +2A from 1 CP drugs. *shrug* I don't use DE so I can't really speak much more to it. Thanks for the insight.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

 Oguhmek wrote:
Not a single mention of Ork units, which makes me think those grot and mek nerf rumors might actually be true. Yeah, the squigbuggy is a great choice at 135pts compared to an armiger at 145. And the stompa is still definitely worth 925... right?

I swear to God I'll spam the GW site and IG into Oblivion if they do that

agree, not only is that absurd imo, but it also steps on a lot of units toes, like dreadnoughts? Why field a hellbrute, or decimator, or any other such thing if i can just throw down a cheap wardog and call it a day.

If they drop the wardog's price surely dreadnoughts will come down as well? Any leaks on fw units? Leviathans going up?

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

depends, it might be from 13 to 7 and the cause of the error was that the intern who make the pic only looked at the last number. Still , until they clear it up, i wont get my hopes up.

If they are 7 pts then oh boy orks are getting outhorded by harlequins

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

 Oguhmek wrote:
Not a single mention of Ork units, which makes me think those grot and mek nerf rumors might actually be true. Yeah, the squigbuggy is a great choice at 135pts compared to an armiger at 145. And the stompa is still definitely worth 925... right?

I swear to God I'll spam the GW site and IG into Oblivion if they do that

agree, not only is that absurd imo, but it also steps on a lot of units toes, like dreadnoughts? Why field a hellbrute, or decimator, or any other such thing if i can just throw down a cheap wardog and call it a day.

If they drop the wardog's price surely dreadnoughts will come down as well? Any leaks on fw units? Leviathans going up?

Nothing, the levi should probably go up more for regular marines, hopefully.
The decimators and some other things could come down.
Maybee they also realize that using the drunken intern was a bad idea for R&H, DKoK and Corsairs aswell as elysians.

not a single sw info...i guess sock assault fixed everything...not... is the article saying that DA are getting rules along with point drops

 lonewolf81 wrote:
not a single sw info...i guess sock assault fixed everything...not... is the article saying that DA are getting rules along with point drops

I kinda hope DA and SW get something soon. PA3 is about to give BAs Combat Doctrines, so DAs at the very least should be Doctrines too since DAs are just as Codex compliant as BAs. SWs, otoh....

-

Not Online!!! wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

 Oguhmek wrote:
Not a single mention of Ork units, which makes me think those grot and mek nerf rumors might actually be true. Yeah, the squigbuggy is a great choice at 135pts compared to an armiger at 145. And the stompa is still definitely worth 925... right?

I swear to God I'll spam the GW site and IG into Oblivion if they do that

agree, not only is that absurd imo, but it also steps on a lot of units toes, like dreadnoughts? Why field a hellbrute, or decimator, or any other such thing if i can just throw down a cheap wardog and call it a day.

If they drop the wardog's price surely dreadnoughts will come down as well? Any leaks on fw units? Leviathans going up?

Nothing, the levi should probably go up more for regular marines, hopefully.
The decimators and some other things could come down.
Maybee they also realize that using the drunken intern was a bad idea for R&H, DKoK and Corsairs aswell as elysians.

if GW doesnt forget about these armies i'll be fething amazed. I wish corsairs were actually playable in 8th edition, the lore and converting looks dope.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

 Oguhmek wrote:
Not a single mention of Ork units, which makes me think those grot and mek nerf rumors might actually be true. Yeah, the squigbuggy is a great choice at 135pts compared to an armiger at 145. And the stompa is still definitely worth 925... right?

I swear to God I'll spam the GW site and IG into Oblivion if they do that

agree, not only is that absurd imo, but it also steps on a lot of units toes, like dreadnoughts? Why field a hellbrute, or decimator, or any other such thing if i can just throw down a cheap wardog and call it a day.

War dogs are still Lords of War right? So not the easiest replacement for a dreadnaught or hellbrute for most lists. I guess you could take a super-heavy auxiliary detachment just to add a War Dog. I don’t play chaos but that seems sub-optimal to me.

The cost reduction does allow for 3 detachment of 1 gallant and 2 Armigers each though. I might try that out.

 Galef wrote:

 lonewolf81 wrote:
not a single sw info...i guess sock assault fixed everything...not... is the article saying that DA are getting rules along with point drops

I kinda hope DA and SW get something soon. PA3 is about to give BAs Combat Doctrines, so DAs at the very least should be Doctrines too since DAs are just as Codex compliant as BAs. SWs, otoh....

-

Isn't Psychic Awakening 4 (coming in January) SW and Orks? They'd get their Doctrine there. If that's the case, it's probably a safe bet DA will get theirs in PA 5 in February.

 Galef wrote:

 lonewolf81 wrote:
not a single sw info...i guess sock assault fixed everything...not... is the article saying that DA are getting rules along with point drops

I kinda hope DA and SW get something soon. PA3 is about to give BAs Combat Doctrines, so DAs at the very least should be Doctrines too since DAs are just as Codex compliant as BAs. SWs, otoh....

-

What do Doctrines have to do with Codex compliant?

Black Templars get Doctrines. Carcharodons get Doctrines. Etc.. and they don't give a rat's ass about the Codex.


Hell, Iron Hands are not a Codex compliant chapter and have the most infamous doctrine/super-doctrine in the game atm.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

 Oguhmek wrote:
Not a single mention of Ork units, which makes me think those grot and mek nerf rumors might actually be true. Yeah, the squigbuggy is a great choice at 135pts compared to an armiger at 145. And the stompa is still definitely worth 925... right?

I swear to God I'll spam the GW site and IG into Oblivion if they do that

agree, not only is that absurd imo, but it also steps on a lot of units toes, like dreadnoughts? Why field a hellbrute, or decimator, or any other such thing if i can just throw down a cheap wardog and call it a day.

If they drop the wardog's price surely dreadnoughts will come down as well? Any leaks on fw units? Leviathans going up?

Nothing, the levi should probably go up more for regular marines, hopefully.
The decimators and some other things could come down.
Maybee they also realize that using the drunken intern was a bad idea for R&H, DKoK and Corsairs aswell as elysians.

if GW doesnt forget about these armies i'll be fething amazed. I wish corsairs were actually playable in 8th edition, the lore and converting looks dope.

Gw certainly remebered r&h cultists when they attempted to kill them aswell even though they were worse then csm ones

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 catbarf wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

stormcraft wrote:
https://m.facebook.com/420830645026189/posts/809799582795958/

demon prince dropping in pts?
Manipulus dropping like 30 pts?

how is this even remotely legit????

The Manipulus is currently a big waste of points, so that seems reasonable to me. Can't comment on the Prince.

I'm very interested in 7pt Scions. I've been thinking that bare squads (no HSVG or plasma) are reasonably viable when you take FRFSRF into account, and a points drop on the base unit might make that moreso.

Maybe grenade launchers/flamers will be more worth taking if they're carried by cheaper platforms.

Flamers only if you're running Valks. Otherwise just stick with all Plasma.

However, at that cheap a price point they're more viable as a stand alone army.

Not even valks, the valk doesn't let them move after grab chute insertion anymore. Flamers are quite possibly the worst weapon you could give a stormtrooper, and that's saying something. He would be better off with a regular hotshot Las.

Manipulus isn't a waste either, he shows up in most competitive admech builds for a reason. He's very niche, but he does the niche well. That said going down to 65 base is a welcome change, and will let him see more use. Poor dominus probably won't see much use anymore between daedolosus, enginseers, and manipulus, but honestly if the dominus could just take some different upgrades he'd be worth it. You know, like half the massive amount of stuff he used to be able to bring like a better invuln save or perhaps some buff upgrades, or even just a better melee weapon.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

chnmmr wrote:
2 point cheaper strikes isn’t going to do much for GKs. Their flaws are intrinsic and token point drops won’t fix it. We still are garbage at deepstriking, have awful psychic powers, nowhere near enough power choice compared to the number of psykers we have, and have generally poor ranged combat (excluding storm bolsters.). The announcement smells of ‘GKs will be the big winner this CA’ and I’m not falling for it. I simply don’t trust GW in this matter.

Four points cheaper.

Storm bolters are not free.

chnmmr wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

chnmmr wrote:
2 point cheaper strikes isn’t going to do much for GKs. Their flaws are intrinsic and token point drops won’t fix it. We still are garbage at deepstriking, have awful psychic powers, nowhere near enough power choice compared to the number of psykers we have, and have generally poor ranged combat (excluding storm bolsters.). The announcement smells of ‘GKs will be the big winner this CA’ and I’m not falling for it. I simply don’t trust GW in this matter.

Four points cheaper.

Storm bolters are not free.

They said 17 after kitted out. This implies 17 with the Storm Bolter.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Not even valks, the valk doesn't let them move after grab chute insertion anymore.

I must have missed that change, when was that?

Edit: Ah, FAQ. Got it.