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2201 sounds about right as a real world date for when new Bret plastics will be released.

 Eiríkr wrote:
My only wish for this is for the Bretonnia range to return unchanged.

I doubt that will happen, there range was already on the older side when it was discontinued

Orcs confirmed too. Which is great for fans of the old greenskin models, most of which got discontinued last year from AOS. I'm hoping for all new models, but if they re-release Boar boyz unchanged, I'll be just as happy.


Edit: I wonder if factions that are more or less present in AOS won't get as much/any love. Take the Dark elves for example. As of the latest lore, their old range is pretty much back in action. You can get scourges, witch elves, hydras, black dragons, etc, all in the same army. Plus, the majority of their range is still available. Not sure how present the DE were at this time, but there doesn't seem as big a need to get them models, save for a few lords and heroes, compared to Brettonia, high (and some wood) elves, normal greenskins and goblins, etc.

If they actually do intend to include the whole breadth of the classic factions as people hope this map suggests, rather than just doing a Heresy-style "one main army with themed lists and a few other minifactions" approach, I don't really think they have any alternative to bringing back the old range.

GWHQ might have given them the resources to do a single full faction of minis, maybe even two, but all of them? Even accounting for the more modern WHFB minis that are still used in AoS and so could be re-reboxed(although that approach wouldn't bode well for the affordability of TOW - they're hardly going to provide classic models in the affordable bulk necessary for a rank & flank system when that would make a lot of the "legacy" models in AoS packaging look like poor value by comparison), there's a *lot* of stuff that's gone the way of the dodo, with even the more complete ranges still having big gaps and of course a couple being gone entirely.

Either TOW is a much bigger project than anyone suspects, or it's exactly as small as people previously thought and all the map stuff is just background fluff, or they'll be bringing back the classic models. My money is still on this being a smaller project and the maps are just fluff being used to keep reminding people the project exists and is coming eventually, but I certainly wouldn't say no to the classic plastics returning even if only as an initial offering that would be very gradually replaced over time.

so 2200, 50 years after and 100 years before the next big war in the timeline

so no real Horus Heresy of AoS as the missed the most exiting wars of that time

but really just the human civil war with minor conflicts

and I guess another year of nothing but artworks and the hope that GW won't mess it up again

hype train does not move for me

Given how good the empire blood bowl models are of the new release I'm very much looking forward to the models they put out. It's also a while before Mordheim is flattened by the comet so maybe.. just maybe that gets a cheeky refresher too. Who knows..

Even if it doesn't, a new range of models will make for some fun new warbands.

I'm expecting a focus on the Human nations for the models and the narrative. Orcs and Chaos can be ported straight(back) from AoS, while the Elves and Dwarves could be limited to rare appearances with a unit or two.

GoatboyBeta wrote:
I'm expecting a focus on the Human nations for the models and the narrative. Orcs and Chaos can be ported straight(back) from AoS, while the Elves and Dwarves could be limited to rare appearances with a unit or two.

And I’m expecting my beloved Wood Elves to get all of the love. AoS did them dirty, but now they can return to prominence as deserving the best!

Ohh, yes pleas! Lovely map, gorgeous infact and is certainly something I wouldn't mind adorning the wall of the nerdy space at home. (it's a lot nicer than anything similar I've seen from AoS to boot!)

Very excited to see what becomes of this project especially if it means updated Brettonians and more Goblin Wolf Rider sculpts.

Comparison to 30k is a cause for trepidation, if only because that will price me out immediately! :(

I'm really happy the Old World is returning and I'm even more interested in how they will approach this. I don't think returning to the old models is a good idea and I don't think GW will go this route, new technology, and new kits are what GW is interested in. (I do think GW should sort out it's 'legacy' collection)

 Yodhrin wrote:

Either TOW is a much bigger project than anyone suspects, or it's exactly as small as people previously thought and all the map stuff is just background fluff, or they'll be bringing back the classic models. My money is still on this being a smaller project and the maps are just fluff being used to keep reminding people the project exists and is coming eventually, but I certainly wouldn't say no to the classic plastics returning even if only as an initial offering that would be very gradually replaced over time.

I think the fact that it is years off is a giveaway that its its a big sculpting process. If it were just going to be rules and a setting of an empire civil war they really could just use existing models from the old warhammer range and be done with it in a rather trivial rules suppliment.

But I think GW see there is money to be made in a rank and flank style system, and they are slowly getting ready to take the market by storm.

Hoping that this will also involve a return to Man O' War, being set in the old world and all that.

Interested in the snow army they teased a while back - the one with the "Golden Compass" bears. As a Frostgrave player I'd be up for that...

 Olthannon wrote:
Given how good the empire blood bowl models are of the new release I'm very much looking forward to the models they put out. It's also a while before Mordheim is flattened by the comet so maybe.. just maybe that gets a cheeky refresher too. Who knows..

Even if it doesn't, a new range of models will make for some fun new warbands.

Mordheim is destroyed in 2000 so its been a deamon/Skaven/mutant infested pile rubble for a couple of hundred years.

Louen Orc Slayer? Shouldn't that be "Louen tueur de Orcs"?

GoatboyBeta wrote:
I'm expecting a focus on the Human nations for the models and the narrative. Orcs and Chaos can be ported straight(back) from AoS, while the Elves and Dwarves could be limited to rare appearances with a unit or two.

Orcs can't. AoS orcs ride weird Henson puppets, not boars and wyverns, with comical 40k style armor.

The goblins we've seen so far (wolf riders and night gobbos) largely can. Mostly because they didn't really touch the actual gobbos, and the heroes are largely call backs to very early editions with the moon helmets.

No Colleges of Magic is sad for me...but then, what did the human side of magic look like back then?

Non-existent?

A big mess until the Colleges were established?

I'm guessing the latter. Probably a few powerful individuals. Or maybe just a scant few level 1 wizards, since they didn't know how to fully unlock their powers. Though, based off the Kislev previews, the ice witches seemed pretty well attuned, despite a lack of Teclis teaching.

 Alpharius wrote:
No Colleges of Magic is sad for me...but then, what did the human side of magic look like back then?

Non-existent?

A big mess until the Colleges were established?

You do have some organised elements like the Wizards and Alchemists Guild in Middenheim and I think Otila I establishes a Magic school when she declares herself Emperor in Talebheim otherwise its hedge magic, alchemists, and Elemetalists - often risking being burnt at the stake.

Ironically the worst place is likely Altdorf as a Sigmar focussed city rather then aforementioned Ulric focussed ones.

Also some nobles will employ them unofficially.

 GaroRobe wrote:
I'm guessing the latter. Probably a few powerful individuals. Or maybe just a scant few level 1 wizards, since they didn't know how to fully unlock their powers. Though, based off the Kislev previews, the ice witches seemed pretty well attuned, despite a lack of Teclis teaching.

Good point re Ice Witches - they were fully organised and powerful politically and magically.

 Alpharius wrote:
No Colleges of Magic is sad for me...but then, what did the human side of magic look like back then?

Non-existent?

A big mess until the Colleges were established?

The timeframe we're looking at is what leads to the establishment of the colleges of magic. Teclis founds them following the conclusion of the war.

 Alpharius wrote:
No Colleges of Magic is sad for me...but then, what did the human side of magic look like back then?

Non-existent?

A big mess until the Colleges were established?

In short, patronage and hypocrisy. All magic users are actively hunted by Sigmarites(and Ulricans aren't much better) so you survive by either hiding, or by finding someone or somewhere with enough power or leverage to protect you from them. Hedges, court wizards, rare organised guilds like in Middenheim, that sort of thing. I would conjecture that there's a generally lower "power level" since very few are naturally as talented as a College wizard can become after decades of studying Elf-given wisdom, but a lot more variance in how magic manifests itself since individual magic users aren't being shaped by a set curriculum and probably aren't limiting themselves to a single Wind. Also probably a lot more "folk wisdom", superstition, and general ignorance - look at how eagerly everyone jumped on Wyrdstone when the hammer fell on Mordheim and thought it was a miracle substance, until they started growing extra eyeballs in their armpits etc.

IMO easily as interesting as the College system.

Did they ever actually say it is going to be a normal 28mm game? Could it turn out to be something like Epic was for 40k? The smaller scale would both make it need less sculpting work so possible to have more armies and wouldn't make it as expensive as you would need to have big armies

Maybe not as small as Epic was but still smaller than 28mm?

Said nothing.
Showed a 25mm square base.
That would be a kick in the teeth if it was a different scale.

Danny76 wrote:
Said nothing.
Showed a 25mm square base.
That would be a kick in the teeth if it was a different scale.

Ah, but did they if that 25mm base was for a common footsman or a Greater Daemon?

No, exactly that, they’ve said nothing so it could mean anything.
But it’s surely an expectation by showing that and saying people who miss the game they destroyed etc, it’s coming back for them.
To make it something else would be harsh..

 Matrindur wrote:
Did they ever actually say it is going to be a normal 28mm game? Could it turn out to be something like Epic was for 40k? The smaller scale would both make it need less sculpting work so possible to have more armies and wouldn't make it as expensive as you would need to have big armies

Maybe not as small as Epic was but still smaller than 28mm?

They've said basically nothing. Its not even clear if they've moved beyond concept art yet and world background yet. Based on the original article (November 2019), 2022 would be the very earliest it will release.

They've been clear that Old World is to AoS what 30K is to 40K. Which means the same scale.

There's no reason for them to change the scale. A scale change is a totally separate venture and GW aren't even sure if they are going to remake epic let alone warmaster (heck AT and AN regularly get comments from designers saying that they are not making epic and that they aren't confirming anything along those lines - heck AT hasn't even got Chaos titans let alone xenos)

 Overread wrote:
They've been clear that Old World is to AoS what 30K is to 40K. Which means the same scale.

I don't think that's clear, that can be interpreted in several ways. "The Old World is to Warhammer Age of Sigmar, as the Horus Heresy is to Warhammer 40,000" was the start of a paragraph that said how the Horus Heresy is the prequel story that sets up the foundations of the setting and lets players use heroes and armies of a bygone era, so not necessarily anything to do with how the game itself will compare.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
They've been clear that Old World is to AoS what 30K is to 40K. Which means the same scale.

I don't think that's clear, that can be interpreted in several ways. "The Old World is to Warhammer Age of Sigmar, as the Horus Heresy is to Warhammer 40,000" was the start of a paragraph that said how the Horus Heresy is the prequel story that sets up the foundations of the setting and lets players use heroes and armies of a bygone era, so not necessarily anything to do with how the game itself will compare.

And then you couple that with the base they show - a 32mm normal base.

Basically GW has given every hint it will be the same scale and no hint it will be a different scale.

I doubt it will be epic-sized. GW is really in love with the detail it can put into the 28/32 mm models they make.

If the models were epic-scaled, they'd have to put more thought into the rules - something they care less about than their physical model range.

 kodos wrote:
so 2200, 50 years after and 100 years before the next big war in the timeline

so no real Horus Heresy of AoS as the missed the most exiting wars of that time

but really just the human civil war with minor conflicts

and I guess another year of nothing but artworks and the hope that GW won't mess it up again

hype train does not move for me

If anything it's perfect. Great big sandbox to do whatever you want with, especially with the highly fractured Empire. GW learned it's lesson with the issues in WHFB and not being able to change much fluff wise without having massive impacts on the game. This way we can do whatever we want, GW can run narrowly defined narrative campaigns that still have actual results and the vast majority of non human characters are still around. Hell even a lot of the Skaven are, Ikit Claw is, he was around before the 1850s.

Also this Epic debate never fails to amuse me. Warmaster could barely sustain a large enough audience to be relevant when WHFB was riding high in 6th, let alone now when 10mm gaming is barely existant in the mainstream. Unless GW want to lose a load of money, there is no way they're doing that scale. Especially after advertising with bases in the way they have.