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Wow, I haven’t been this excited in a while.

I really hope they do keep Steadfast because it was a wonderful rule that allowed infantry to actually survive being charged without having to have unbreakable or stubborn.

 Aenar wrote:

My prediction, now that we know it's on squared bases, same scale, no silly names, and so on: TOW will eclipse AoS in terms of popularity and sales. Easily.

That depends on how whipped the Betrayed, Offened and Never-Again ex-fantasy players are. I suspect at least some of them will come crawling back, but hopefully not that many.

Having both square and round bases to use in both WHF and AoS is really easy. Conquest is doing it since its beginnings so you can play rank&file and a skirmish with the same minis.

 Malika2 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
I dont know why people thought the game would be 10mm-15mm to begin with anyway. GW will not produce a wargame like this without the ability to potentially have minis cross over, if not as whole units, but as potential conversion. having their minis the same scale across all games mean more sales.

*Stares at you in Adeptus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis.*

Oh let's open that can of worms shall we?

The Titanicus and Aeronautica models seem to be "1/4th of 40k" (whatever that might be). But looking at the models they seem to work just fine with 6mm scaled humans. Note that the original Titans and aircraft were closer to 3mm scale. The Forgeworld aircraft were more akin to "1/5th of 40k" whilst tanks generally were all over the place.

Err, the point was more that GW produced miniature titans and flyers in plastic that do not cross over with 40k proper, rather than relation to legacy games. On that note though, the scale for GWs aeronautica Imperialis is smaller than the scale of Forgeworlds by a good amount, whereas the new Adeptus Titanicus titans are - as you noted - noticeably larger than the old Epic ones (while the infantry and tanks are probably fine in relation, its a moot point because as of yet those cannot be fielded in new AT whatsoever).


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Cronch wrote:

 Aenar wrote:

My prediction, now that we know it's on squared bases, same scale, no silly names, and so on: TOW will eclipse AoS in terms of popularity and sales. Easily.

That depends on how whipped the Betrayed, Offened and Never-Again ex-fantasy players are. I suspect at least some of them will come crawling back, but hopefully not that many.

I fear too many. Todays news was like a clarion call for all of them to emerge from the woodwork and throw a party based on the social media activity I've been seeing. Many are already predicting AoS imminent demise lol

Cronch wrote:

 Aenar wrote:

My prediction, now that we know it's on squared bases, same scale, no silly names, and so on: TOW will eclipse AoS in terms of popularity and sales. Easily.

That depends on how whipped the Betrayed, Offened and Never-Again ex-fantasy players are. I suspect at least some of them will come crawling back, but hopefully not that many.

I've no WHFB models left after a dabble in 7th ed. If they still expect people to whack out multiple core blocks of 30+ dudes at £30 per 10, can assure you I'll have no interest in coming back. I think they're going to have to reign in the scope and game sizes somewhat to account for the bulk of people not having functional armies.

I also can't wait to see "square base adapters" becoming a thing.

Encouraging article.

If they're pulling ideas from all editions, I hope they dump some of the ideas that led to massive armies in 8th, and dump the random charge distance.

Other than that, looking forward to it!




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Dudeface wrote:
I also can't wait to see "square base adapters" becoming a thing.

Problem is that if they use the old base sizes, you can't really make adapters because the diagonal of the square base is bigger than a circular base, but a circular base is bigger than the short edge of a square base.

You pretty much need to magnetise the feet and just have 2 separate bases.

I just hope that they use the army building rules from 3rd edition. Including monstrous hosts, allied/mercenary contingents with their own "army lists", etc.

I'm really excited for new models, doesn't matter what.

Wow. I didn't believe that this would be some warmaster reboot or only have a basic semblance to WHFB like some did, but it's still awesome to have confirmation of square bases, the same scale *and* It'll be pretty much classic WHFB gameplay.

The sticking to WHFB faction names is a bit of a surprise, too.

Once again though....there's more uncertainty over just what the term "The Old World" is actually referring to when GW uses it. Considering they said "Da boyz woz called Orcs in da Old World" surely that means they're using the term to refer to the setting overall, not just the continent?

Dudeface wrote:
I've no WHFB models left after a dabble in 7th ed. If they still expect people to whack out multiple core blocks of 30+ dudes at £30 per 10, can assure you I'll have no interest in coming back. I think they're going to have to reign in the scope and game sizes somewhat to account for the bulk of people not having functional armies.

You're going to be disappointed then. Look at the recent prices for the cadian guardsmen set or even genestealer cult neophytes. The prices will be absurd and you'll be expected to like it.

The sticking to WHFB faction names is a bit of a surprise, too.

but what about the Copyrights? I thought we have aelves cause elves aren't copyrightable!

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
I've no WHFB models left after a dabble in 7th ed. If they still expect people to whack out multiple core blocks of 30+ dudes at £30 per 10, can assure you I'll have no interest in coming back. I think they're going to have to reign in the scope and game sizes somewhat to account for the bulk of people not having functional armies.

You're going to be disappointed then. Look at the recent prices for the cadian guardsmen set or even genestealer cult neophytes. The prices will be absurd and you'll be expected to like it.

However, the thing is that at least in 40K that expensive ten model box will give you a functioning unit. In FB you need three or so of such boxes for one unit.

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
I've no WHFB models left after a dabble in 7th ed. If they still expect people to whack out multiple core blocks of 30+ dudes at £30 per 10, can assure you I'll have no interest in coming back. I think they're going to have to reign in the scope and game sizes somewhat to account for the bulk of people not having functional armies.

You're going to be disappointed then. Look at the recent prices for the cadian guardsmen set or even genestealer cult neophytes. The prices will be absurd and you'll be expected to like it.

The prices are what they are, but if they want the game to do well they'll make it so you don't need a couple of dozen boxes as a minimum. It's the not the prices I had issue with but the quantity expected.

 Crimson wrote:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
I've no WHFB models left after a dabble in 7th ed. If they still expect people to whack out multiple core blocks of 30+ dudes at £30 per 10, can assure you I'll have no interest in coming back. I think they're going to have to reign in the scope and game sizes somewhat to account for the bulk of people not having functional armies.

You're going to be disappointed then. Look at the recent prices for the cadian guardsmen set or even genestealer cult neophytes. The prices will be absurd and you'll be expected to like it.

However, the thing is that at least in 40K that expensive ten model box will give you a functioning unit. In FB you need three or so of such boxes for one unit.

Yes, and? You *can* run a 10-strong regiment in Fantasy. It'd be awful, but you can do it, the box gives you a valid unit.

It was only 8th with its stupid extra rank fighting and steadfast that got crazy with the number of models in an infantry unit, it was 40+ or don’t bother. In earlier editions outside of horde type exceptions like gobbos, 20 ish was the norm. With the article saying they took mechanics from 3rd through to 8th, we’ve got a 5/6ths chance of not having that horror show!

Cronch wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
I've no WHFB models left after a dabble in 7th ed. If they still expect people to whack out multiple core blocks of 30+ dudes at £30 per 10, can assure you I'll have no interest in coming back. I think they're going to have to reign in the scope and game sizes somewhat to account for the bulk of people not having functional armies.

You're going to be disappointed then. Look at the recent prices for the cadian guardsmen set or even genestealer cult neophytes. The prices will be absurd and you'll be expected to like it.

However, the thing is that at least in 40K that expensive ten model box will give you a functioning unit. In FB you need three or so of such boxes for one unit.

Yes, and? You *can* run a 10-strong regiment in Fantasy. It'd be awful, but you can do it, the box gives you a valid unit.

And that's the exact train of thought that would put me off going back into fantasy. A large volume of people will be entering the game from scratch, including existing GW customers given their uptick over the last few years. Being told you need 3+ troops and each will cost you £100 whilst only being collectively 20% of your army in some cases (looking at you skaven etc) is a hard sell. WHFB didn't exactly fit into the scaling game size as well as 40k/sigmar do either.

Dudeface wrote:
The prices are what they are, but if they want the game to do well they'll make it so you don't need a couple of dozen boxes as a minimum. It's the not the prices I had issue with but the quantity expected.

Earlier editions of both 40k and wfb required far less models and then over time, points values dropped and army sizes increased to where we are today. GW knows what they're doing with this.

I sound cynical, but when you look at their track record, it's just being realistic.

Dudeface wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 Aenar wrote:

My prediction, now that we know it's on squared bases, same scale, no silly names, and so on: TOW will eclipse AoS in terms of popularity and sales. Easily.

That depends on how whipped the Betrayed, Offened and Never-Again ex-fantasy players are. I suspect at least some of them will come crawling back, but hopefully not that many.

I've no WHFB models left after a dabble in 7th ed. If they still expect people to whack out multiple core blocks of 30+ dudes at £30 per 10, can assure you I'll have no interest in coming back. I think they're going to have to reign in the scope and game sizes somewhat to account for the bulk of people not having functional armies.

I also can't wait to see "square base adapters" becoming a thing.

TBH, I'm hoping that it ends up like 6th edition. At 28-35mm scale I want a game where its 2-3 units of 10-15 infantrymen each, 1-2 units of 5-10 cavalry, a hero or two, and an artillery piece/warmachine/monster. Bigger than a "skirmish" game but a lot smaller than what WHFB ended up as in 7th/8th edition. If its a "specialist" type game then theres a good chance thats the way it goes since they probably won't be pumping out massive miniatures ranges and tons of huge monsters and the like for this (at least not right off the bat).

Assuming it uses the new smaller table sizes that all GW games seem to be moving towards, I don't really see any other option here, to be frank. It was already challenging enough to maneuver 7th/8th ed WHFB armies on 6x4 tables with almost no terrain (typical for us was usually like 3-4 pieces of terrain total, not including things like walls/barricades and low gentle-sloped hills), the new table sizes reduce the table area by around 25% IIRC which just makes it that much harder - you wouldn't be able to have any terrain on the table at all at that point.


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Problem is that if they use the old base sizes, you can't really make adapters because the diagonal of the square base is bigger than a circular base, but a circular base is bigger than the short edge of a square base.
You pretty much need to magnetise the feet and just have 2 separate bases.

This could explain why GW has started doing 28.5 and 30mm rounds. You can fit 20mm and 25mm squares in them.

RIP AoS. I knew you somewhat in relation that the models were interesting but I never met many that played it in my tri state area.

I actually hope they ditch 20mm squares except maybe for tiny things like goblins. Ranking human-sized models on 20mm bases was always an utter pain. Make 25mm the basic human-sized infantry base size.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Wow, I haven’t been this excited in a while.

I really hope they do keep Steadfast because it was a wonderful rule that allowed infantry to actually survive being charged without having to have unbreakable or stubborn.

Only at the expense of flank charges, monsters and elite infantry. It threw tactics out the window and reduced armies to fielding one massive block of infantry with a couple of other units, usually monsters.
I wasn't a fan.


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 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
I've no WHFB models left after a dabble in 7th ed. If they still expect people to whack out multiple core blocks of 30+ dudes at £30 per 10, can assure you I'll have no interest in coming back. I think they're going to have to reign in the scope and game sizes somewhat to account for the bulk of people not having functional armies.

You're going to be disappointed then. Look at the recent prices for the cadian guardsmen set or even genestealer cult neophytes. The prices will be absurd and you'll be expected to like it.

Yeah I'm really worried that GW will just do what they did to WHFB, see no one is buying the Old World and then cancel it because they can't bloody learn.

Bago wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
10mm scale was Warmaster I guess. 15mm...GW never did that, right?

I am intrigued by the mention of 'Half Orcs' whatever those might be. I wonder how that would work though, don't WHFB Orcs reproduce through spores as well, kinda like that 40k counterparts?

Wasn't battle of five armies 15mm?

It was 10mm. GW made 15mm models though, at least for Traveller. They even made 20mm for Dark Future.

I see dwarf icons and Norse dwarfs on the map. I hope that's a good sign that we'll get old school dwarfs. We still have iron breakers, hammerers, long beards, etc. But we could use troll slayers, miners, warriors, quarrelers, and cannons agian.


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Edit: Also, the article mentions some things in passing, hobgoblins, centaurs, etc.

But what about half-orcs? Were those ever really mentioned in Warhammer? Would they be like kruleboyz?

I'm excited. I'd like a proper wargame in the vein of what drew me into wargaming in the first place.

Super hero marvel madness (AOS) is great but is not a classic wargame and does not appeal to people that want a classic wargame that all sodded off to kings of war and 9th age.

This is a perfect way to get them and people like me back to the Ivory Tower.

If one enjoy super hero marvel madness style games that AOS 100% embraces, keep playing that.

And now people like me can have a game finally after what will be 7 or 8 years.

The playerbase will remain as fragmented as it is today, I dont see it becoming more fragmented. Other than the "GW Ride or Die" guys that want to play warhammer but wont play anything not GW.

If you hate square bases, just do what I had to do. Put them on movement trays. Kings of War has plenty of round bases as does 9th age. They use adapters or movement trays.

Id be surprised bof the model counts is as high as it was in 8th. If that's the case, the game will be doa

 GaroRobe wrote:
I see dwarf icons and Norse dwarfs on the map. I hope that's a good sign that we'll get old school dwarfs. We still have iron breakers, hammerers, long beards, etc. But we could use troll slayers, miners, warriors, quarrelers, and cannons agian.


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Edit: Also, the article mentions some things in passing, hobgoblins, centaurs, etc.

But what about half-orcs? Were those ever really mentioned in Warhammer? Would they be like kruleboyz?

They're in 3rd edition. They're what you'd imagine. Note that in 3rd edition orcs were more traditional/less Warhammer orc-y, in that they were just vicious, if cowardly, warrior tribes. Not the silly WAAAGH! types we know from more recent years. In that sense, they were ultimately just humanoids.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:



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 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
I've no WHFB models left after a dabble in 7th ed. If they still expect people to whack out multiple core blocks of 30+ dudes at £30 per 10, can assure you I'll have no interest in coming back. I think they're going to have to reign in the scope and game sizes somewhat to account for the bulk of people not having functional armies.

You're going to be disappointed then. Look at the recent prices for the cadian guardsmen set or even genestealer cult neophytes. The prices will be absurd and you'll be expected to like it.

Yeah I'm really worried that GW will just do what they did to WHFB, see no one is buying the Old World and then cancel it because they can't bloody learn.

I mean - North America is GWs largest single market. Historically speaking, NA was also (according to those in the know - i've seen former design studio members comment on this in various interviews etc in the past so im inclined to believe it to be true) WHFBs weakest market - by a very large margin.

Unless GW has figured out how to make the game/setting more appealing to American/Canadian audiences than it was before, I'm inclined to think that the relaunch would have one foot in the grave from the get-go. Though I suppose that WHFB being popular in the UK/EU but weaker in North America could indicate that GW sees TOW as a product that is marketed more towards EU/UK audiences. This further reinforces the idea that its more of a "specialist" type product though and won't be getting the same level of support as 40k and AoS - if GW is only really counting on sales from regions that account for only about 45% of their current revenue streams to carry the product line then they aren't going to invest a lot into it unless North American sales numbers come in much higher than they project them to be.

That in turn points (to me) that this game is not being designed to have giant blocks of models on the table, but rather a much smaller (and saner) footprint.

The model count in 8th was not any different than it was in 7th or 6th.

I have my army rosters from tournaments from all of those editions and the model count was roughly the same.

And the model count of many AOS armies is similar if not more depending on the army you are running.

The model count being higher in warhammer is a myth.

The steadfast rule made unit blobs a thing which is very bad. That part is true. Massive sized individual units was a thing.

My 6th - 8th edition armies averaged between 70 and 90 models per army.
My AOS armies averaged between 65 and 80 models per army. Thats not a massive difference. My skaven army had 180 models in it for AOS.

I look forward to blocking 50-strong regiments with 5 dire wolves again, the pinnacle of tactics and strategy in the system

Cronch wrote:
I look forward to blocking 50-strong regiments with 5 dire wolves again, the pinnacle of tactics and strategy in the system

Wasn't there an overcharge mechanic where if you wipe out a unit in a turn you can keep going?