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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Anyone else think it’s funny that GW made an announcement to confirm Tomb Kings just as Mantic is releasing a new starter set with Empires of Dust plastics?

The ones that came out months ago?

Because seriously, Mantic based almost their entire army roster off Warhammer. Given the number of releases each company does it would be notable if stuff didn't overlap from time to time.

No, the one that went up for pre-order today

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Anyone else think it’s funny that GW made an announcement to confirm Tomb Kings just as Mantic is releasing a new starter set with Empires of Dust plastics?

No, but I do think it's funny they focused on Tomb Kings and Bretonnia after Dakka spent a week talking about the rarity and unpopularity of Tomb Kings and Bretonnia.

In fairness I'd be shocked if GW weren't aware of Dakka - its one of the bigger and more active forum communities and GW today seems more aware of the internet (overtly) than they were in the past.

Even if they don't post here I'd 100% expect them to want to keep an eye on places like this. Consumer feedback, user opinion, rumours and leaks etc...

They DO pay attention to Dakka. We've had several former staff members tell us so over the decades and the late 2000's US event head used to post here regularly, up to and including calling out Stelek of Yes The Truth Hurts infamy for lying about his Grand Tournament record.

They mentioned Brets from the onset. One of the earliest previews was a Brettonia map as I recall.

Given that they are the most expensive kits out there to get second hand, it's not a surprise. I wouldn't really put this one down to Dakka, sweet as that may be.

 Overread wrote:


Even if they don't post here I'd 100% expect them to want to keep an eye on places like this. Consumer feedback, user opinion, rumours and leaks etc...

These things are otiose in a niche.

This is probably a stupid question, but will the new factions get Blood Bowl teams eventually?

They're also the two factions which GW fully purged.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Overread wrote:


Even if they don't post here I'd 100% expect them to want to keep an eye on places like this. Consumer feedback, user opinion, rumours and leaks etc...

These things are otiose in a niche.

Darn it these aren't the Kirby days!


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 Olthannon wrote:
Given that they are the most expensive kits out there to get second hand, it's not a surprise. I wouldn't really put this one down to Dakka, sweet as that may be.

And yet GW still hasn't put the Diaz Deamonetts on constant made-to-order

I just want to be on record saying I think it's a coincidence a TOW article appeared on the very day the new Kings of War starter set went on preorder.

From what I have seen, so far, I suspect that Warhammer: The Old World is set around ~2000IC. This would be during the Errantry wars of Bretonnia. It is also after the war of Three emperors in the Empire and when the Vampire Wars are set. The Empire may not be in civil war at this time but they are not united.

If they are taking their time and ensuring that this is done right, it will be a monumental success and more than likely kill off a few rank and file games that have flourished with the passing of WFB (KoW, Oathmark, etc).

The art shown is lovely, it really is the style that 6th edition built, a grounded gritty take on fantasy.

The reveals may come slow, but they are still nice to see, and seem to indicate that this is a labour of love. 6th edition WFB, was also a labour of love, flicking through that colossal tome of a book shows that those involved were passionate about it. If this new venture into WFB captures a glimmer of that, it will be like catching up with an old friend.

I'm usually very critical of GW, and verge upon being dubbed a 'hater'... but this, this has me very interested.

 Londinium wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
I can't tell if it's a good or bad thing that despite the miniatures being quite old now and the game being set hundreds of years earlier than WHFB, was, the artwork is basically just the same WHFB miniatures even down to some of the details. I expected things to be similar and in the same vein as the classics but still updated a little with more detail and such, either because of the time period change or because things have moved on a bit since they were made.

A lot of the factions won't change that much in 200 years, we're not talking about the irl jump from 1800 to 2000 here. The main areas you'll probably see change is less technological development in the Empire and Skaven, less organised and advanced magic in the Empire and that's well probably it. Bretonnia in particular is a society in economic and political stasis by the conscious decision of the elites. So the artwork being largely the same makes sense, I imagine GW don't want to spook people with changes either, considering this will rely upon getting the old crowd back into the game to form it's core playerbase.

As you get deeper into the marketing roll out (likely well into 2023), once it's been established that this is still the WHFB that people used to love, we'll probably see some new or unusual stuff.

Change does not have to be in terms of weaponry specifically, and even then, in the real world armor and weapons changed a lot over any 200 year period. I mean real world example, just look at the Romans - early republic, late republic, early empire, late empire, etc - while the pop culture version is that they are all just legionaries, the equipment of the Roman armies changed over time.

Culturally regions can change a massive amount in 200 years - the fashion of the elite, the garb that everyone wears from peasant to elite, and so on. And if the fashions of say Brettonia and the Empire are different, then the Orcs that battle and loot the dead might have different trinkets and trophies as well.

I'm not really judging anything, far too early to tell how this goes. Personally I'm almost hoping that instead of picking a single timeframe and just piling in thousands of wars in a 5 year period, they jump around the timeline a bit. Say keep their focus on the Empire Civil War (that was the rumor/statement yes?) for now, then once that is fleshed out jump to another region of the world in another time period, like 70 years further along in Cathay and focusing on the relationship between Cathay, the Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos invasions, and the fantasy versions of India and Japan.

I just think it needs to be mentioned as there were too many comments hoping and wishing.

It’s not coming out next year.

The article says, the 40th anniversary so keep an eye out for a lot more updates etc.
I think that kind of says itself that that’s the years of bigger focused previews. Models. Lore deeper dives etc.
Ready for a release the year following perhaps..

Sarouan wrote:
To be honest, Tomb Kings fans are so starved for so long even a picture of one phalanx half buried in the sand will be seen as the advent of Settra's new golden age.

Interest in the Tomb Kings among the playerbase has remained a thing, even during AoS after GW eliminated the line. I remember the lead-up to the Ossiarch Bonereapers reveal, when people were excitedly speculating that the hints being mentioned meant that we were about to see the Tomb Kings reintroduced. So there's definitely an interest, and I don't think it's limited to just the former TK players like myself. But we've been starved. The only factions getting less info (there are at least a couple of mentions of Tomb King cities) in AoS are the also eliminated Brets, and Malerion's still missing elf faction (speaking of which, guess which *other* faction I played in WHFB?).

I think the images dropped today for the Brets and TK are meant to indicate that yes, there will be a level of support for both factions. They're not just random things from the background lore. GW is well aware of what happened to the two groups, and that there's a chunk of the playerbase that's been unhappy about that to this day. TKs may not get the full level of support right at launch. But I think this is meant to reassure that support for them will be present, with an expectation that players will be able to get their hands on figures.

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:The Old World is unlikely to launch with anything like the amount of stuff that previous WHFB players will expect. There's no way they'll be able to make all the old kits available again (even if the choose to go with them intiailly) as they'll hit the production capacity problem they've had since before covid

you'll either get a fiarly shallow release of a lot of factions, or a deeper release of a few.

I think both.
I expect that there will be rules for old armies and a flashy release to start and then new models will roll out for the rest in time. Similar to how AoS went.
Looks like Brettonia and Tomb Kings first, so far.
I expect GW want people to buy a new army for this, likely in addition to AoS and 40k armies that you might have.

BobtheInquisitor wrote:Anyone else think it’s funny that GW made an announcement to confirm Tomb Kings just as Mantic is releasing a new starter set with Empires of Dust plastics?

There also seems to be an announcement whenever Mantic bring out a new rulebook.
If anyone doesn't know; Mantic have gone from 3rd edition to compliling a 3.5 in the time since The Old World was announced.
It's hard not to think that GW is trying to draw attention away from other companies.
Why else would there be an announcement followed by such a long trail of bread crumbs?

stonehorse wrote:If they are taking their time and ensuring that this is done right, it will be a monumental success and more than likely kill off a few rank and file games that have flourished with the passing of WFB (KoW, Oathmark, etc).

They'll definitely take a hit, but not sure how hard.
I think that The 9th Age might be in trouble. I'm not involved enough to really know though.

I can definitely say that Kings of War have a significant number of players who have no desire to go back to WHFB, if they even played it. Some players flatly refuse anything from GW, because they're that fed up with GW.

I don't know either way with Oathmark.
OPR exists alongside 40k, so I don't think they need to worry.

Andykp wrote:

 Rihgu wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Not been following this much but do we KNOW what kind of game this will be? Will it be 5he same scale etc as AOS and 40k? Just seems an odd idea to make a direct competitor to one of your brands. Suppose it works for HH and 40k. I like the idea but I think it would tempt me away from AoS with all the nostalgia.

It will be the same scale as WHFB/AoS. It will have square bases. The ruleset is based on 3-8 edition (maybe only 5-8, actually. Don't fully remember).

It's not a direct competitor with AoS, because it's a rank and flank and thus the ruleset will automatically have a different appeal than the formation-free rulesets like AoS and 40k.

This does seem interesting. The free cities stuff for AoS had me interested but this maybe more so. I thought they could go a 10 or 15mm strategy game but 28mm is a bold choice. I hope they give the rules a fresh look, I found 5th onwards a bit stuffy for me.

The last time they tried smaller scale Fantasy it got killed at retail after 6 months and moved to Specialist Games hospice until it finally died. I sincerely doubt they want to repeat that experience.

 Londinium wrote:


One interesting point is that 2023 is the 40th anniversary of Warhammer, those madlads aren't going to be crazy enough to release 10e 40k and 9e WHFB in the same year...are they?

Would be even more crazy to release it 2024 though. Better to combo 40k and this than AOS and this. 2 fantasy games in same summer?

2025 is open from both 40k and AOS though. HH3 might be coming then though but that's like 40k appealing more to different target group than AOS would.

tneva82 wrote:

 Londinium wrote:


One interesting point is that 2023 is the 40th anniversary of Warhammer, those madlads aren't going to be crazy enough to release 10e 40k and 9e WHFB in the same year...are they?

Would be even more crazy to release it 2024 though. Better to combo 40k and this than AOS and this. 2 fantasy games in same summer?

2025 is open from both 40k and AOS though. HH3 might be coming then though but that's like 40k appealing more to different target group than AOS would.

2025 is the 10th anniversary of AoS. It's possible that they launch The Old World in 2024 give this edition of AoS an extra year before doing a grand launch of 4th edition to celebrate the anniversary. With Horus Heresy a bigger thing and The Old World coming back it would make a lot of sense to move everything to a 4 year cycle, then they could alternate between a sci-fi and fantasy new edition each year.

Grail Seeker wrote:


To me, this points to bringing back some older kits. I am sure there will be new kits as well, but now I am thinking we will see some classic kits back.

I hope not. The surest way for The Old World to fail is for GW to trot out some minis from 1997 and try to sell them at 2023 prices.

It would be nice to at least get a general idea of what they're planning to do on the miniature side. We have a pretty decent idea of Forge World's limitations from Horus Heresy. Legion specific models stay in resin, they seem to have a decent plastic budget to make all those vehicles, but somehow they figured half of the legion agnostic infantry in the game doesn't need to exist in plastic even half a year after launch. That's probably a good start for any faction that wins the update lottery, but doesn't inspire confidence that there's going to be all that much overall model support for the Old World.

1997 models at 2023 prices is about the only way I could see it go if there is rules support for all old factions. And even then, there's the question if you can pick up a box at your leisure or if you have to hope to have the necessary cash and foresight to get all the models you may need for your army in a one or two week made to order period.

And somehow I just can't imagine that that's anything but the best case scenario...

Chikout wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Londinium wrote:


One interesting point is that 2023 is the 40th anniversary of Warhammer, those madlads aren't going to be crazy enough to release 10e 40k and 9e WHFB in the same year...are they?

Would be even more crazy to release it 2024 though. Better to combo 40k and this than AOS and this. 2 fantasy games in same summer?

2025 is open from both 40k and AOS though. HH3 might be coming then though but that's like 40k appealing more to different target group than AOS would.

2025 is the 10th anniversary of AoS. It's possible that they launch The Old World in 2024 give this edition of AoS an extra year before doing a grand launch of 4th edition to celebrate the anniversary. With Horus Heresy a bigger thing and The Old World coming back it would make a lot of sense to move everything to a 4 year cycle, then they could alternate between a sci-fi and fantasy new edition each year.

They could just End Times AoS. That would solve any scheduling issues.

Chikout wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Londinium wrote:


One interesting point is that 2023 is the 40th anniversary of Warhammer, those madlads aren't going to be crazy enough to release 10e 40k and 9e WHFB in the same year...are they?

Would be even more crazy to release it 2024 though. Better to combo 40k and this than AOS and this. 2 fantasy games in same summer?

2025 is open from both 40k and AOS though. HH3 might be coming then though but that's like 40k appealing more to different target group than AOS would.

2025 is the 10th anniversary of AoS. It's possible that they launch The Old World in 2024 give this edition of AoS an extra year before doing a grand launch of 4th edition to celebrate the anniversary. With Horus Heresy a bigger thing and The Old World coming back it would make a lot of sense to move everything to a 4 year cycle, then they could alternate between a sci-fi and fantasy new edition each year.

The fact that ANYONE talks about 4 editions in 10 years without fuming is an indictment on our hobby.

Chikout wrote:
2025 is the 10th anniversary of AoS. It's possible that they launch The Old World in 2024 give this edition of AoS an extra year before doing a grand launch of 4th edition to celebrate the anniversary. With Horus Heresy a bigger thing and The Old World coming back it would make a lot of sense to move everything to a 4 year cycle, then they could alternate between a sci-fi and fantasy new edition each year.

That's fething awful.
New editions are necessary when the FAQ, errata and supplements become unwieldy.
A new edition should be justified and avoided.

New editions being on a cycle of how often GW can get people to buy the rules again is bs.

Just Tony wrote:
The fact that ANYONE talks about 4 editions in 10 years without fuming is an indictment on our hobby.

Agreed. This kind of gak is why I don't play GW games.

That artwork looks like they are quite prepared to just put old kits back into production.

Which as a Bretonnia fan I'm a bit disappointed in admittedly. The basic knight kit was alright, but I didn't like the comedic direction the line went in from 5th to 6th. (Blind archers and iirc a questing knight etc).

Maybe they will just do print on demand 8th ed rules

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Just Tony wrote:

Chikout wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Londinium wrote:


One interesting point is that 2023 is the 40th anniversary of Warhammer, those madlads aren't going to be crazy enough to release 10e 40k and 9e WHFB in the same year...are they?

Would be even more crazy to release it 2024 though. Better to combo 40k and this than AOS and this. 2 fantasy games in same summer?

2025 is open from both 40k and AOS though. HH3 might be coming then though but that's like 40k appealing more to different target group than AOS would.

2025 is the 10th anniversary of AoS. It's possible that they launch The Old World in 2024 give this edition of AoS an extra year before doing a grand launch of 4th edition to celebrate the anniversary. With Horus Heresy a bigger thing and The Old World coming back it would make a lot of sense to move everything to a 4 year cycle, then they could alternate between a sci-fi and fantasy new edition each year.

The fact that ANYONE talks about 4 editions in 10 years without fuming is an indictment on our hobby.

I agree that editions change too quickly and often without purpose. It's worth pointing out though that this is nothing new. Warhammer fantasy 4th edition came out 9 years after first edition.

My concern is just going to be overall cost. Assuming that W:tOW doesn't model the rules to account for smaller regiment/unit sizes, armies are going to be incredibly costly.

With current GW prices a twenty model unit of high elf spearmen is going to cost around $120/£75.
Assuming 1,500 - 2,000 point armies and that being maybe one unit out of a half dozen or more, that's closing in on the cost of new appliances.

Edit:
The only way I could see around this would be a deeply discounted start collecting box featuring all of the 'core' units in an army. An example for high elves would be something like twenty spearmen/archers, five silver helms and a hero that was convertible to a silver helm champion or something similar for the cost of what one of those units would be sold at, individually.

How about... and this is a crazy idea. Games stop the constant release edition cycle. Get a set of core rules right. Nail them down to be 'cheif's kiss', and then devote time to fleshing out the game with army books, models, missions, and scenarios. It is quire close to what 6th achieved, and why it stands the test of time.