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What's the eldar meta now? aren't SP and DR too nerfed?

Kebabcito wrote:
What's the eldar meta now? aren't SP and DR too nerfed?

They are both getting points drops so they might be playable again. I've always loved the shinging spear models (love medieval combat) and I think they could be pretty good. I've never used dark reapers but, like fire dragons, they have always seemed too squishy for me. I'm looking forward to the points drops for all the wraith units as I have ~2500pts of units, and with masters of concealment their points will match their toughness, then when you get close you can just smoosh everything.


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Recently played a 1250pt game with my buddy where I only had 2 wraithlords mixed with other units, and they tanked all of his antitank first turn and still got to combat on my turn. Just converted up a wraithseer so im excited to see how a wraithseer + 3 wraithlord (just swords) spearhead will fare. Only 370 points and going down!

Vibro cannons seem a bargain now at 35 points, good range and damage when spammed, should be good against marine units like aggressors too by denying advance.
The seven I've got ready to paint have moved to the top of my painting backlog.

Kebabcito wrote:
What's the eldar meta now? aren't SP and DR too nerfed?

Spears and Reapers got a big enough boost from PA with their Exarch traits to see play in tournament lists again, especially Spears. Coupling that with points drops for both units means they're probably pretty viable.

Reapers are gonna compete against Fire Prisms which I believe have been reduced in points too.

With CA coming out it's hard to tell exactly what will make the meta lists but it's likely to be largely the same as currently seen: flyers!

Only thing Reapers suffer for is that they are a T3 unit in a game that has a lot of indirect fire from certain armies(Tau, SM).

You can outrange most of that ignoring LOS stuff for the most part though with the option to stick an extra 6" on the squad's weapon range. Add fire and fade into the mix and your opponent has a very hard time removing them.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Bharring wrote:
The Wraithlord continues to be the lesser stompa; less powerful, less cost, and less overcosted.

ok?

I think wraithlords are even more attractive now that they got a small pts drop, theyre dirt cheap for the durability they bring.

I'm gonna start testing out a spearhead of starcannon wraithlords with expert crafters + masters of concealment

I'm personally considering dual AMLs with Expert Crafters and Masterful Shots.

Kdash wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Bharring wrote:
The Wraithlord continues to be the lesser stompa; less powerful, less cost, and less overcosted.

ok?

I think wraithlords are even more attractive now that they got a small pts drop, theyre dirt cheap for the durability they bring.

I'm gonna start testing out a spearhead of starcannon wraithlords with expert crafters + masters of concealment

I'm personally considering dual AMLs with Expert Crafters and Masterful Shots.

yeah ive seen a lot of people play with AMLs, i just dont find them good enough, i'd much rather get the higher rate of fire of cannons(theyre cheaper too).

i feel like getting your long range wraithlords to a 2+ is really important to keep them alive but i can also see that marines in cover are a pain in the ass to shift.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
You can outrange most of that ignoring LOS stuff for the most part though with the option to stick an extra 6" on the squad's weapon range. Add fire and fade into the mix and your opponent has a very hard time removing them.

Eh? Thundefire cannon is the main culprit right now, and it has a 60" range. One cannon using its 1cp strat will nuke 3.69 reapers per turn, before any doctrine or chapter shenanigans. Which SM army doesn't have at least one TFC in it right now?

I guess you might be able to dance around the identical range-bands of eliminators and reapers using fire and fade, but realistically that seems quite unlikely in most cases, given eliminiators' top-tier deployment options. If they want to reach your back board they can, in all but one of the deployment maps. I think you're just kinda wrong on this one.

Wraithlord Spearhead does sound like it has potential. 2 Wraithseers and 3 Wraithlords is only 440pts with no upgrades. Seems very reasonable for 54 T8 wounds to run at people with.

I think for Dark Reapers to work it's either a squad of 10 that fire and fades out of LoS, and gets at least a -2 to hit, plus cover for a 2+ Sv. Or 3x3 with fast shot Exarchs that are more expendable.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Kdash wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Bharring wrote:
The Wraithlord continues to be the lesser stompa; less powerful, less cost, and less overcosted.

ok?

I think wraithlords are even more attractive now that they got a small pts drop, theyre dirt cheap for the durability they bring.

I'm gonna start testing out a spearhead of starcannon wraithlords with expert crafters + masters of concealment

I'm personally considering dual AMLs with Expert Crafters and Masterful Shots.

yeah ive seen a lot of people play with AMLs, i just dont find them good enough, i'd much rather get the higher rate of fire of cannons(theyre cheaper too).

i feel like getting your long range wraithlords to a 2+ is really important to keep them alive but i can also see that marines in cover are a pain in the ass to shift.

My reasoning is more to do with the Marine matchups being vs IF or IH. IH flyers will get within 12” of the Wraithlords, so you won’t be getting the cover bonus, whereas IF just flat out ignore cover on everything. In regards to RG and WS, they will probably be up in your lines turn 1 and 2 as well, so you won’t be getting much use of the trait.

That said, it’ll be good vs every other faction.

As for the AML, I think it’s more because I’ve started to move away from flyers, so I need a bit more higher strength fire power. The fact that it can double up to kill hordes is also a boon.

I've recently been testing a Spirithost Supreme Command in my competitive list that includes a dual heavy wraithcannon Wraithknight with Masters of Concealment and Expert Crafters. Depending on the matchup, I will often go with Divergence or Ghost Walk on one of my spiritseers. The Wraithknight becomes pretty durable with a 2+/4++/5+++ and interacts surprisingly well with the Haemy and the vexator mask.

I've been trying to develop a counter to the assault cent and positioning a haemy behind a buffed up WK with talos flanking it allows for a significant amount of board control.

The shooting dmg output has been onpar with my unit of 6 skyweavers netting around 7-14 wounds.

My current list consists of a POF Coven Battalion with 6 Talos, big squad of wracks, and 2 minimum squads. Flayed skull spearhead with triple dissies, and I have been swapping out my Harlies Vanguard with 6 skyweavers, 2x DJ, Solitaire, and Shadowseer for the CW supreme command with the WK.

What is nice, is that the list essentially nullifies small arms fire. I have only gotten 3 games in thus far with this iteration of my list, but it's looked promising. To be fair, I've only gone against White Scars, Space Wolves, and the old traditional Chaos Daemons list.

Kdash wrote:


My reasoning is more to do with the Marine matchups being vs IF or IH. IH flyers will get within 12” of the Wraithlords, so you won’t be getting the cover bonus, whereas IF just flat out ignore cover on everything. In regards to RG and WS, they will probably be up in your lines turn 1 and 2 as well, so you won’t be getting much use of the trait.

That said, it’ll be good vs every other faction.

As for the AML, I think it’s more because I’ve started to move away from flyers, so I need a bit more higher strength fire power. The fact that it can double up to kill hordes is also a boon.

its true that more and more factions have ways to ignore cover nowadays, its probably a meta call between the two.

as a drukhari player, i love my dissies, i see starcannons as their equivalent. The fact that AMLs only have ap -2 is turning me off from them, at least bright/dark lances have stronger AP. Overall i find that theres just too many D6's on the AML, and i love consistency.


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so the bonesinger is relegated to legends after getting a pts drop in the latest CA.. seems strange?

As i feared, index wargear options are also gone, so no mode banshee mask autarch for us.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

so the bonesinger is relegated to legends after getting a pts drop in the latest CA.. seems strange?

As i feared, index wargear options are also gone, so no mode banshee mask autarch for us.

Ouch, that's a real kick in the nuts on both counts, but especially the mask. Does this leverage a squad of banshees though, given their new low price, just for their overwatch ability? I know noone likes the idea of aspect chaff, but it is where we are: scorpions and banshees are now cheap enough to bring, and can pack a little punch.

I was bringing five banshees specifically to disrupt gunlines but they're nowhere near as versatile as the banshee mask autarch.

It's a pretty big loss for us I think.

Yeah it's a huge kick int he balls. My foottarch backline support does not feel viable now.. 70pts for a re-roll 1's aura is very weak sauce... Not sure If I will even bother buildig/converting any more autarchs now.

They should have put autarch on foot into legends as well seeing as it ain't got a model... Ehh fething GW....

TBH im more salty about the boneinger. Was really excited with 55pts! Thought about making some cool brigades and wraith/vehicle builds...
Its ok.. the WK went down 30 pts (yaaaaaaayyyyy.....!!!!) -_-

 Argive wrote:
Yeah it's a huge kick int he balls. My foottarch backline support does not feel viable now.. 70pts for a re-roll 1's aura is very weak sauce... Not sure If I will even bother buildig/converting any more autarchs now.

They should have put autarch on foot into legends as well seeing as it ain't got a model... Ehh fething GW....

TBH im more salty about the boneinger. Was really excited with 55pts! Thought about making some cool brigades and wraith/vehicle builds...
Its ok.. the WK went down 30 pts (yaaaaaaayyyyy.....!!!!) -_-

Yeh I was all up for adding my Bonesinger into a Spearhead of Wraithlords etc, but, now… Yeh... :(

That said, dropping my Autarch and the Bonesinger will now give me a fair few points to play around with!

Where does this leave Autarchs then?

The loss of wargear options is unfortunate, but I think Autarch Skyrunners are still a decent HQ choice. Thier buffs and damage output are more reliable than a Farseers, as they don't require psy tests, and they're a more durable Warlord. The Mark of the Incomparable Hunter WL trait isn't worth it anymore, but An Eye On Distant Events lets them ignore overwatch again. Fates Messenger is also decent, taking them up to 7W with a 6+++.

The Autarch on foot is meant to be the Yriel model, so it does have one in an indirect way.

Jet-autarchs are still very much a viable unit and in matched competitive play they're a cheap enough chance at more CP.

I'm not surprised about the bonesinger, it was a made to order model a few years ago and with no access it fits the criteria for moving into legends.

With the warlocks being so cheap now they might get pushed out in favour of the cheaper, probably more useful psykers.

Warlocks have had a massive boost recently with their 10pts discount and the addition of Focus will and Ghostwalk powers. Using the Seer Council strat Lets you Focus Will on a 5+ to give a Farseer +3 to cast for when you really need your powers to work. if you don't need the boost then they still have good old Protect/Jinx.

I'd stopped using Quicken as it wasn't reliable enough to commit to in the movement phase, but I may give it a go now with a Focus Will Warlock to force it through.

A Focus Will Warlock + Eldrad using Seer Council, and Unparalleled Mastery strats makes possibly the most powerful Psyker in the game. 4 powers, 1 with +3 to cast and 3 with +4 to cast, plus Farseer rerolls. Feels right.




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Can anyone confirm that Warlock Skyrunner Conclaves are now 48ppm? Plus 2pts for the twin shuri cats and 5pts for Spears = 55ppm?

If so I'm looking at a Supreme Command Windrider Host detachment of

Farseer Skyrunner, Fortune, Doom
10x Warlock Skyruner Conclave, 10x Spears, Protect, Quicken
Warlock Skyrunner, Focus Will

744pts

With the 1s count as 2s on psy tests, and -1AP on Shuri weapons Craftworld traits.

Plus a BRIGADE for tons of CP. The Windrider Host stratagems are savagely powerful.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Where does this leave Autarchs then?

Same place if you'd play where people do not like using Index. I am surprised TOs were so lenient on this before, but then before GW enforced good rules like Rule of 3 they were also fine with people spamming same op FW unit 9 times which is telling.

 Shadenuat wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Where does this leave Autarchs then?

Same place if you'd play where people do not like using Index. I am surprised TOs were so lenient on this before, but then before GW enforced good rules like Rule of 3 they were also fine with people spamming same op FW unit 9 times which is telling.

Because index options were and are enshrined in an official FAQ flowchart.
The legends stuff is a self-contradicting community article...

Intent of the chart was to let you use your old venerable models, not to mass-produce Autarches by sticking EMLs to them at all the weird angles.

Or buying second hand OOP autarch kits with the launcher...

Can't speak for what the intent was... but the FAQ is pretty clear about index Rules...

Anyway, it blows. banshee mask at least should be an option. The no model no rules that only apply to certain things is getting real old.
Arent Relics basically a war gear option that gives rules... I don't see any wings on spirit seers with falochus wing being modelled or special guns/relic swords hammers any time soon. Ehh... I guess a new tournament/play "Legends" format has just been born lol.

Anyway. A suicidal phoenix gem autarch and 3x MSU spear units could become a viable tactic.

I think id just go for more psykers /MW instead especially if warlocks went back down in price. The autarch really needed to get cheaper if all he was going to do is give a poxy re-roll 1 aura and 4 attacks. Gotta wait for all the points on Saturday.

If it's wysiwyg I'd have no problem playing against it.

Complaining about how someone models a unit is ridiculous.

 Argive wrote:
The autarch really needed to get cheaper if all he was going to do is give a poxy re-roll 1 aura and 4 attacks

I think he did? Because Forceshield got cheaper a bit.

 Shadenuat wrote:

 Argive wrote:
The autarch really needed to get cheaper if all he was going to do is give a poxy re-roll 1 aura and 4 attacks

I think he did? Because Forceshield got cheaper a bit.

For foot and winged Autarchs, they did get cheaper because of the Force shield points change.
But Skyrunner Autarchs never had Force shields, they have a free ability called Peerless Agility for their 4++. So they did not get cheaper

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Because they're already a good unit, yeah.

I'd make others even cheaper compared to them. Phoenix Lords too.

oh right, Winged got -5 flat an addition to shield drop.

 Shadenuat wrote:
Because they're already a good unit, yeah.

I'd make others even cheaper compared to them. Phoenix Lords too.

I agree. Just making sure everyone realizes it before they deduct points from their Skyrunners

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Considering GW are pushing these constant books out the quality control is really bad on them eg the Bonesinger differing points in Chapter approved. I wouldn't mind buying books if they were high quality but rules wise they are constantly making errors.

Not to mention they have really screwed up the Autarch so now really the Skyrunner is the only option that is competitive and without Banshee Mask it is pretty weak. There should have been a MPPK with all options but that's for another thread.

The idea of Legends is that for tournaments only models you can buy can be used, not old models from years ago that some might find very hard to get hold of. This is a good idea I think as it makes it more inclusive. I believe legend units are still usable in everything but tournaments? Unless specifically stated in tournament rules