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Do you think there's any value in a two man warlock conclave?
Seventy points is still pretty cheap for an hq and they get to know two powers, quicken and jinx for example, with the strategy to make the powers 36" range I think they could be useful.
With the powers you don't need line of sight generally so they should be easy enough to hide somewhere.
Any thoughts?

 kingheff wrote:
Do you think there's any value in a two man warlock conclave?
Seventy points is still pretty cheap for an hq and they get to know two powers, quicken and jinx for example, with the strategy to make the powers 36" range I think they could be useful.
With the powers you don't need line of sight generally so they should be easy enough to hide somewhere.
Any thoughts?

Hiding somewhere in the vicinity of a mission objective is key in the current meta.
And here you have cost-effective models who can achieve this and contribute to the game with some powers.

Recently, I battled GSC and couldn't annihilite them in round 5 since the enemy had several HQs out there which I couldn't target all at once.

Sorry bud I couldn't tell you. Wraithcannons proxy Skathach for me

 kingheff wrote:
Do you think there's any value in a two man warlock conclave?
Seventy points is still pretty cheap for an hq and they get to know two powers, quicken and jinx for example, with the strategy to make the powers 36" range I think they could be useful.
With the powers you don't need line of sight generally so they should be easy enough to hide somewhere.
Any thoughts?

Generally speaking, they would be easier to hide from shooting and easier to avoid being in Deny the Witch range. However, they are no longer have the character keyword which could leave them exposed to shooting that does not require Los. A bit of a trade of to be able to cast from a greater distance. If you don't face opponents with much non LOS shooting, it may be worthwhile to utilize a strong Comclave.

Yeah, the loss of the character keyword is potentially a big problem. It's the main drawback for sure. Thunderfire cannons would need to double shoot to take out a two man squad in a round. Night spinners would eat them for breakfast however...

Hey all,

We gave GW's "Remote Hammer" a try and wrote up the battle report between the Aeldari (Craftworld/Harlies) vs. Grey Knights.

Interesting new Aeldari list with some good tactics and tricks to employ against Grey Knights in this one.

Epic finish as well! Hope you all enjoy this old school bat rep!

https://www.grimdarkfilthycasuals.com/remote-hammer-battle-report-aeldari-vs-grey-knights/

Really good report, the list worked well against the knights, like you mentioned it may struggle more with hordes but against marines it looks very solid.

What’s good against new sisters? What do we pointy ears have to be careful of when playing them? I haven’t seen much discussion about the matchup, is it a tough one for us?

Cheers

I played a really close game against a sisters army the other week, we never finished it unfortunately. At the end of turn three it was hung in the balance.

I was running harly bat and custom cwe bat, with triple falcons/triple banshees which is something I've really been enjoying.

He ran the most obscenely resilient carpet of models! His repentias (I think? The nutters with the chainswords) were running so buffed that I couldn't whittle them down too well. - 4++ with 5+++, each doing insane cc damage, and mortal wounds as they died, 3x9 blobs. Lots of celestines to absorb all my attempts to snipe out the HQs bringin all the buffs. triple T8 artillery pieces.

Doom and jinx are crucial in that kind of matchup up so I really recommend council strat and focus will if you have a spare caster. Shurikens are clutch in the matchup too, with my dire avenger squads with bladstorm doing great work against all those t3 bodies. Likewise with the banshees - they killed a lot as they died. The clowns were pretty much dead weight as it turned out, so much bolter fire meant their transports were doomed.

I think he would have snuck the win if we'd have carried on, he's a great player. I think resilience of that order is something to chew on, but I'm also aware that's just one of their good builds. A strong, well written army that while powerful still didn't feel insurmountable.Very keen to play against them some more!

Grouchoben described it pretty well.
Resilient tanks and transports like Falcons or Serpents loaded with Dire Avengers and Banshees can do a lot of damage.
Shurican cannons are also great vs T3 models as wounding is on 2+.
A fully mounted army with high mobility is key vs static armies and dangerous units like Repentias which can be outmaneuvered.

Hi everyone I'm very new to the hobby and have been solely painting since the start of the year. I've yet to roll a dice but have been working on assembling my army with one eye on this forum, Goonhammer and the unit reviews on 1d4chan. I've drawn up a list based on the models I have, and while I intended them to be competitive, a large draw has been to play Eldrad and drop a fully psychically buffed up guardian blob on my opponent. I know that this isn't hyper competitive, and that I'm missing out on Masterful/Expert Crafters but I'd like to play a few games with this setup as it sounds fun, and I can get an appreciation for how the aforementioned craftworld traits might improve on this "vanilla" setup which I missed out on first time around.My strategy is to look to control objectives with this army, using the spears warlock and autarch to take out deep striking scouts or maybe a pushed up invictor, before looking to assess a favourable CC in the midfield. I have ample non LOS shooting with the spinner/ 2 DR exarchs to clear out things like eliminators or a thunderfire cannon, i figured my Hemlock could help with causing problems in the backfield. I have objective grabbers with my rangers/DA squads in serpents plus E-dizzle and a warlock to support them. Ultimately I'd look to combine my Guardian blob with my mini deathball charge in turn two or three to clinch the center board. Does this seem viable?

While I'd like to get into the competitive scene, my first few games will be with a friend who has also taken up the hobby at Christmas time. We're both working on our 2k armies (hes playing Ultramarines) and our idea is to play a few matches post lockdown with our regular tabletop (mostly DND) group to try and get more friends into the hobby. I know this list doesn't have to be super competitive, but that's the bar I've set for myself eventually, so I'd welcome any feedback on where I might refine things in the future.

In the future I'd like to look into acquiring more spears to bring that unit up to max size, in addition to perhaps replacing my nightspinner with war walkers for some more board control an pick up some support weapons for a possible foray into crafters. As is I'd be grateful for feedback on what I have now, and also any pointers on how I should look to play the army. I know Aeldari aren't the easiest, so I've been watching some youtube battle reports and reading articles to work on strategy. One concern I have is that If i start my DAs and footlock/eldrad in serpents, then I dont have a lot of screens, so I'd need to have at least one unit of rangers in my deployment zone.

Thanks for any input you have


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [65 PL, 1,255pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

+ HQ +

Eldrad Ulthran [8 PL, 145pts]: 0. Smite, 1. Guide, 2. Doom, 4. Executioner

Warlock [2 PL, 50pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 58pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 58pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Guardian Defenders [9 PL, 190pts]
. 20x Guardian Defender: 20x Plasma Grenades, 20x Shuriken Catapult
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [7 PL, 160pts]
. 4x Dark Reaper: 4x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Tempest Launcher
. . Exarch Power: Crack Shot

Dark Reapers [7 PL, 160pts]
. 4x Dark Reaper: 4x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Tempest Launcher
. . Exarch Power: Crack Shot

Night Spinner [8 PL, 117pts]: Crystal Targeting Matrix, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 170pts]: Crystal Targeting Matrix, Shuriken Cannon, Twin Aeldari Missile Launcher

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 147pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Cannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [39 PL, 744pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 105pts]: 2: An Eye on Distant Events, Craftworlds Warlord, Laser Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shimmerplume of Achillrial

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 67pts]: 2. Witch Strike, 5. Quicken/Restrain, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Troops +

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Ranger: 5x Ranger Long Rifle, 5x Shuriken Pistol

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Ranger: 5x Ranger Long Rifle, 5x Shuriken Pistol

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Ranger: 5x Ranger Long Rifle, 5x Shuriken Pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [10 PL, 182pts]
. 5x Shining Spear: 5x Laser Lance, 5x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. . Exarch Power: Skilled Rider

+ Flyer +

Hemlock Wraithfighter [10 PL, 210pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, Spirit Stones

++ Total: [104 PL, 1,999pts] ++

Overall a very nice list, don't worry too much about custom craftworlds, they can be good but ulthwe and alaitoc are far from bad. Eldrad is still one of the best psykers in the game, use seer council and he'll really shine.
Screening doesn't always rely on troops, serpents and the hemlock can do that job turn one, for example.
The best thing to do is play of course, battle reports are good for learning procedural parts of the game but playing is crucial for learning how your list works and how you want to play.

Well, as a long-time Eldar player I think your first battalion is fine.
The second is questionable as your army has too less penetration.

Instead, add two further detachments instead of the Rangers, say outrider with Shining Spears and spearhead with Support batteries, Fire Prisms, flyers and whatnot.

Thanks for the input guys, I take your point about the punch. Ill play a few games when able to and see what needs rejigging.

Its a solid list and some good feedback.

Id also consider moving the long range wave serpents to alitoic and the reapers consolidated into one squad of 8 to sit in that serpent. That way you can guide and doom them as well as use the re-roll 1's for the autarch in a pinch.

That way you can better protect them with fire and fade as well as potentialy stacking -1 for a -2 with LFR. Those are you squishest units and also the ones with most consistent DMG output.

Also maybe the night spinner as well. You can give them both spirit stones for a 6+++ which gives the same befit as ulthwe at 20pts as well as a -1 on top to make them a bit more survivable. You can downgrade the twin EML to starcannons to get the points for spirit stone and arguably have better weapon. Star cannons are solid and EML are swingy.

Dual battalion is certainly a strong option. Ranger start is great if you are going alitoic.

^ Thats fantastic. Im having a play around with battlescribe to work on some of these different loadouts along these lines. Certainly going to play a few games as dual battalion. My opponent is playing UM aggressors/warsuits and dreads with a reroll castle so not sure what the best unit counter would be to a strong core like this. If i do make my transports from one craftworld, can they carry troops from another craftworld?

 Barbachop wrote:
If i do make my transports from one craftworld, can they carry troops from another craftworld?

Short answer: no.

Long answer: bar a few exceptions (eg: Astra Militarum), almost all armies can't either. The answer to these questions depends on the description of the transport ability (also visible on BattleScribe), which in our case reads "can transport <CRAFTWORLD> INFANTRY models" so you need the same <craftworld> keyword, with exceptions explicitly spelled out for some "trans-subfaction" units, in this case Phoenix Lords.

The question was raised earlier about sisters of battle.
I played against a mostly melee/deepstriking horde yesterday and I think it's potentially a big problem for craftworlds. There were two battalions of cheap sisters, thirty repentia in rhinos and maybe thirty or fourty of the deepstrike sisters some with melee and some with pistols, plus some support characters.
Especially any kind of expert crafters type list. I actually had a lot of shuriken in my list as well as big guns but that many 3+ saves is a nightmare to try chew through when you're just relying on 6+ to wound for any ap.
Has anyone else faced a sisters horde? I think they're a pretty scary prospect for craftworlds.

 kingheff wrote:
The question was raised earlier about sisters of battle.
I played against a mostly melee/deepstriking horde yesterday and I think it's potentially a big problem for craftworlds. There were two battalions of cheap sisters, thirty repentia in rhinos and maybe thirty or fourty of the deepstrike sisters some with melee and some with pistols, plus some support characters.
Especially any kind of expert crafters type list. I actually had a lot of shuriken in my list as well as big guns but that many 3+ saves is a nightmare to try chew through when you're just relying on 6+ to wound for any ap.
Has anyone else faced a sisters horde? I think they're a pretty scary prospect for craftworlds.

Not played against the new Sisters yet, but some members of our gaming group are working on them.

Against a deep striking army which could overwhelm you, its reasonable either to castle up (giving the enemy problems with deploying 12'' away from your army) or to spread out as much as possible (which may take the sting out of the enemy alpha strike leaving him/her with making decisions).

 kingheff wrote:
The question was raised earlier about sisters of battle.
I played against a mostly melee/deepstriking horde yesterday and I think it's potentially a big problem for craftworlds. There were two battalions of cheap sisters, thirty repentia in rhinos and maybe thirty or fourty of the deepstrike sisters some with melee and some with pistols, plus some support characters.
Especially any kind of expert crafters type list. I actually had a lot of shuriken in my list as well as big guns but that many 3+ saves is a nightmare to try chew through when you're just relying on 6+ to wound for any ap.
Has anyone else faced a sisters horde? I think they're a pretty scary prospect for craftworlds.

I have not played against Sisters yet. What is causing Craftworld armies to wound on a 6+ against infantry? Is it across multiple Sisters units at the same time? Is it a character aura?

 Sarigar wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
The question was raised earlier about sisters of battle.
I played against a mostly melee/deepstriking horde yesterday and I think it's potentially a big problem for craftworlds. There were two battalions of cheap sisters, thirty repentia in rhinos and maybe thirty or fourty of the deepstrike sisters some with melee and some with pistols, plus some support characters.
Especially any kind of expert crafters type list. I actually had a lot of shuriken in my list as well as big guns but that many 3+ saves is a nightmare to try chew through when you're just relying on 6+ to wound for any ap.
Has anyone else faced a sisters horde? I think they're a pretty scary prospect for craftworlds.

I have not played against Sisters yet. What is causing Craftworld armies to wound on a 6+ against infantry? Is it across multiple Sisters units at the same time? Is it a character aura?

Its the Ap element I think he means - Sisters have easy acccess to army wide ignore -1AP and its not hard to get ignore -2AP, if they are in cover they can be 2+ armour, ignoring -2 AP. The 6+ wound gets the -3 Ap IIRC for shuriken weapons?

Yeah, I was referring to the -3 ap for shuriken on a six to wound.
Ironically I think fire prisms are one of our best units to take down sisters, the valuable ones anyway. Apart from that, shadow spectres maybe? We tend to have lots of ap or none.
I must admit I didn't screen well enough, shouldn't have put my rangers in reserve as I normally do, but I didn't expect one squad of repentia to chew through three vypers and a falcon in one combat phase! Those miracle dice make their charges far too reliable for my liking!

Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense. 1K Sons have a similar ability. Definitely would like to play against it. Masterful Shots has been a very common trait to match with Expert Crafters, which mitigates the 2+ save potential.

For less points than a Fire Prism, the Hornet with 2 Hornet Pulse Laser is 100 points.

I was using masterful shots and a lot of shuriken cannons with autarch support, star cannons could be ok too but I was thinking of single damage weapons since they're mostly single wound models. They're very tricksy too, firing when arriving from deepstrike with extra range on their pistols, for example, I got severe shenanigan envy last night!

I just don't rate shuriken cannons one iota, not when starcannons are only 3pt more, and are so well tooled to take on the big meta dogs. And with doom they also rock as AT.

The two games I've played against (tanky) sisters ended in a draw and a win, but that might be because I run eldar soup and I run a lot of CC (wyches, banshees, spiritseers, wraithknights).

 grouchoben wrote:
I just don't rate shuriken cannons one iota, not when starcannons are only 3pt more, and are so well tooled to take on the big meta dogs. And with doom they also rock as AT.

The two games I've played against (tanky) sisters ended in a draw and a win, but that might be because I run eldar soup and I run a lot of CC (wyches, banshees, spiritseers, wraithknights).

So, I ran some numbers...the intercessor numbers are a bit fuzzy, but pretty close, because of the D3 damage and the way the mathhammer app works but I'm too lazy to do it 100% accurate!

260 pts = 13 bright lance, 20 star lance, 26 shuriken cannons, so 13, 40 and 78 shots respectively.

shuriken

Vs geq 30 dead, vs sisters 18 dead, vs meq 15 dead, vs intercessor 7 dead, vs rhino profile 16.8 wounds (with doom), 10.1 (without doom)

shuriken with hail of doom

vs geq 36 dead, vs sisters, 24 dead, vs meq 20 dead, vs intercessor 10 dead, vs rhino 19.2 wounds (with doom), 11.5 (without doom)

star cannon (not moved)

vs geq 22, vs sisters 18 dead, vs meq 14 dead ,vs intercessor 10ish dead, vs rhino 24.6 wounds (with doom), 14.8 wounds (without doom)

star cannon (move penalty)

vs geq 16 dead, vs sisters 13 dead, vs meq 11 dead, vs primaris 8ish dead, vs rhino 18.5 wounds (with doom), 11.1 (without doom)

bright lance (not moved) vs rhino 26.9 wounds (with doom), 20.2 (without doom)

bright lance (move penalty) vs rhino 20.2 (with doom), 15.1 (without doom)

Now obviously this doesn't tell the whole story, you've got to pay for the units to carry the guns for a start!
But I think it shows that shuriken cannons don't do badly in comparison to star cannons except vs tanks and that star cannons need doom to compete with bright lances fully. Expert crafters could have a big impact on this depending on unit size but it gets tricky to work out accurately and should help star cannons but will also push bright lances further ahead in terms of anti tank.

If Expert Crafters and Masterful Shots did not exist, I would not run nearly as many Starcannons in my army. Those traits combined with aggressively pointed are why they have become so prevalent for me.

I would likely include Brightlances in my army, but the d6 damage is not a mechanic I like. The Pulse Laser and Hornet Pulse Laser became better options, also when factoring in Expert Crafters and Masterful Shots.

Not saying Shuriken is a poor choice. I happen to enjoy the fact there are debatable weapon options now. Prior to PA and Chapter Approved, Shuriken weapons were my most prevalent choice.

kingheff wrote:Especially any kind of expert crafters type list. I actually had a lot of shuriken in my list as well as big guns but that many 3+ saves is a nightmare to try chew through when you're just relying on 6+ to wound for any ap.

kingheff wrote:I was using masterful shots and a lot of shuriken cannons with autarch support, star cannons could be ok too but I was thinking of single damage weapons since they're mostly single wound models.

kingheff wrote:Yeah, I was referring to the -3 ap for shuriken on a six to wound.
Ironically I think fire prisms are one of our best units to take down sisters, the valuable ones anyway. Apart from that, shadow spectres maybe? We tend to have lots of ap or none.
D

You're right, just looking at the weapons table in the codex, it's almost all AP0 or AP-3/4

Don't know how it would work in your list, but squads of Dire Avengers with Shredding Fire look like the best answer to this particular question, especially in a Masterful Shots CW.

Decent range and RoF, single damage, S4 AP-3 no cover - on a troop platform.

It bypasses AP shenanigans, does not waste multi-damage on them, and brings them to their 6++ so no AP wasted as well.

Nostro wrote:


Don't know how it would work in your list, but squads of Dire Avengers with Shredding Fire look like the best answer to this particular question, especially in a Masterful Shots CW.

Decent range and RoF, single damage, S4 AP-3 no cover - on a troop platform.

It bypasses AP shenanigans, does not waste multi-damage on them, and brings them to their 6++ so no AP wasted as well.

Found the following math on comparison which puts it prettty close

Bladestorm:

1 expert crafters attack + 11 normal attacks, taking bladestorm as being equivalent to BS 2:

35/36 + 55/6 = 365/36

1 Expert Crafters wound + 329/36 normal wounds:

3/4 + 329/72 = 383/72

Saves:

383/72 / 2 = 383/144 = 2.66 unsaved wounds.

Shredding Fire:

Exarch 1 expert crafters attack + 3 regular attacks:

8/9 + 6/3 = 26/9

Exarch 1 expert crafters wound + 17/9 regular wounds:

3/4 + 17/18 = 61/36

Saves vs MEQ:

61/36 * 5 / 6 = 305/216 = 1.49 unsaved wounds.

8 dire avengers hits:

16/3

Wounds:

16/6

Wounds after MEQ Saves:

16/12 = 1.33

Full squads damage:

305/216 + 16/12 = 593/216 = 2.75 unsaved wounds.

Comes out pretty close vs solely meq units

 Barbachop wrote:


Shredding Fire:

[...]

8 dire avengers hits:

16/3

Wounds:

16/6

Wounds after MEQ Saves:

16/12 = 1.33

To be honest I find the way this math is formatted pretty confusing and hard to read ; I didn't quite review it all nor have time to do it on my side at the moment, will come back with it at some point later if someone hasn't in the meantime.

But at least this part caught my eye, if I understand it correctly you're giving them a 4+ Sv, as if Shredding Fire were AP-1.
SF is AP-3 on all weapons on all hit rolls, so that last part should read 80/36 ie 2.22, for a total of ~3.64, virtually a full extra wound compared to 2.66 for Bladestorm.

And this is against MEQ, so for sisters while ratios stay similar the difference translates to more dead models.