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Hi, i will patricipate on a tag team tournament. 500p each player. My team partner will be random.
I thought about using the following list. Shall i use d - scythe over the cannons Or use wraithblades instead of wraithguards?
I have a general tactics question- How do I, as an Eldar player, deal with tanks and things like Knights? Which units are effective in removing them? I'm stumped in how to handle a list like a 3 Knight list in a normal 2000 point event. I'd prefer to keep my army pure Eldar but if there are no good alternatives I would look at Dark Eldar and Harlies.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I have a general tactics question- How do I, as an Eldar player, deal with tanks and things like Knights? Which units are effective in removing them? I'm stumped in how to handle a list like a 3 Knight list in a normal 2000 point event. I'd prefer to keep my army pure Eldar but if there are no good alternatives I would look at Dark Eldar and Harlies.
Thanks for any info/tips.
Doom and jinx are pretty key to doing it efficiently. After that you can use any heavier firepower or strong melee options you have available to be honest.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I have a general tactics question- How do I, as an Eldar player, deal with tanks and things like Knights? Which units are effective in removing them? I'm stumped in how to handle a list like a 3 Knight list in a normal 2000 point event. I'd prefer to keep my army pure Eldar but if there are no good alternatives I would look at Dark Eldar and Harlies.
Thanks for any info/tips.
You have a lot of specialised troops to deal with tanks and armour. Dark Reapers, Fire Prisms, support weapons and Fire Dragons all melt armoured, multi wound models. Right now people are taking large collections of Vibro cannons (6 or more) using the custom craftworld traits of expert crafters as sustained fire against heavily armoured units from these guys is especially effective. It's worth noting that because they count as individual units you can reroll one hit and wound for each gun, and as they increase effectiveness over a turn even though they're only S7 they will have little trouble wounding high toughness bad guys. All that is ignoring cover due to the use of expert crafters and masterful shots. You can also used the link fire strategem on three fire prisms to utilise the power of all three, while only exposing one to line of sight. Lastly eldar are all about synergy and force multipliers, so the use of Doom to reroll wounds and Jinx to lower enemy armour saves enables you to choose one enemy unit a turn you really want to see vaporised, and bring your combined power to bear. Knights don't really have a counter to your psychic prowess, and that's an area Eldar are really strong in.
You may find the article below helpful as it outlines the strengths of our individual units, and where they excel. There's also good articles on Goonhammer about force composition, so you could seek more guidance there.
rhazag wrote: Hi, i will patricipate on a tag team tournament. 500p each player. My team partner will be random.
I thought about using the following list. Shall i use d - scythe over the cannons Or use wraithblades instead of wraithguards?
I haven't experience with using wraithguards but I'd say at the very least you could squeeze in two more guardians to come up to the 500 point limit. When you player larger games a 20 strong guardian unit is a solid choice so it's worth investing in another box if you only currently have one (especially as they're going up in price next week.)
Alternatively you could shave some points off of your wave serpent, as the engines upgrade isn't that worthwhile (you're still going to get where you're going, and your wraiths can't disembark on turn one anyway) If you went with a vanilla scatter laser serpent at 133 points you could include a unit of rangers in addition to everything else you have. At 500 points not a lot else is going to be able to deploy in the enemy's board half, hold an objective and plink away at enemy characters with mortal wounds like they can for a mere 50 points.
Barbachop wrote: You have a lot of specialised troops to deal with tanks and armour. Dark Reapers, Fire Prisms, support weapons and Fire Dragons all melt armoured, multi wound models. Right now people are taking large collections of Vibro cannons (6 or more) using the custom craftworld traits of expert crafters as sustained fire against heavily armoured units from these guys is especially effective. It's worth noting that because they count as individual units you can reroll one hit and wound for each gun, and as they increase effectiveness over a turn even though they're only S7 they will have little trouble wounding high toughness bad guys. All that is ignoring cover due to the use of expert crafters and masterful shots. You can also used the link fire strategem on three fire prisms to utilise the power of all three, while only exposing one to line of sight. Lastly eldar are all about synergy and force multipliers, so the use of Doom to reroll wounds and Jinx to lower enemy armour saves enables you to choose one enemy unit a turn you really want to see vaporised, and bring your combined power to bear. Knights don't really have a counter to your psychic prowess, and that's an area Eldar are really strong in.
You may find the article below helpful as it outlines the strengths of our individual units, and where they excel. There's also good articles on Goonhammer about force composition, so you could seek more guidance there.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Thanks for the link to the article. It's a lot to read but it seems very well written and informative.
Yeah, it's something you can take as reference, don't feel the need to absorb it in one sitting. It's there when you're on battlescribe and putting together a list.
2players team.
First tournament of the campaign 1000p each side (2p a500p)
Second tournament 1000p a player
Last tournament 1500 a player
For small pt games the Lanchester square law comes in - if you double the armour (tanks), the enemy has to four-fold the anti-armour.
With this in mind, I'd consider Serpents or Falcons in the first place.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/24 08:49:03
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Mechanicaly can the Avatar of ynnead appear in T1 if soemthing dies or is e restricted to T2 because hes not a space marine ?
The concept is built around MSU long range firepower but with a verry mean punch in CC.
I would play this with keeping the command wave serpent in orbit while moving all the heavy CC bodies up the board and layering objective holding between storm guardians, shadow specters and vypers.
The shadow respecters are mainly there coz they are cool... An argument could be made for two/3 squads of banshees.
Also could slot out the avatar for yvraine and ass a skyrunner autarch plus more DA.
Ive seen the Eldar Slanesh Deamon Pri- I mean the avatar of ynnead on TTT doing some incredible work and I like his teleporting ability and think hes an incredibly strong unit.
Another question. Why take the Prism Blaster on the Shadow Spectre Exarch? To me, the weapon does not appear to mesh well with Prism Rifles. I do like the Shadow Spectres as Elite choices. After reviewing your list idea, I'm actually mulling over trying to run a Brigade and Supreme Command at an event next weekend. Mine is a bit different as Ill be using Wraithblades and the Wraith Host Detachment. Have you ever run a Brigade with Craftworld?
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Mechanicaly can the Avatar of ynnead appear in T1 if soemthing dies or is e restricted to T2 because hes not a space marine ?
The concept is built around MSU long range firepower but with a verry mean punch in CC.
I would play this with keeping the command wave serpent in orbit while moving all the heavy CC bodies up the board and layering objective holding between storm guardians, shadow specters and vypers.
The shadow respecters are mainly there coz they are cool... An argument could be made for two/3 squads of banshees.
Also could slot out the avatar for yvraine and ass a skyrunner autarch plus more DA.
Ive seen the Eldar Slanesh Deamon Pri- I mean the avatar of ynnead on TTT doing some incredible work and I like his teleporting ability and think hes an incredibly strong unit.
Another question. Why take the Prism Blaster on the Shadow Spectre Exarch? To me, the weapon does not appear to mesh well with Prism Rifles. I do like the Shadow Spectres as Elite choices. After reviewing your list idea, I'm actually mulling over trying to run a Brigade and Supreme Command at an event next weekend. Mine is a bit different as Ill be using Wraithblades and the Wraith Host Detachment. Have you ever run a Brigade with Craftworld?
The prism blaster goes really well with expert crafters. It is a -2 d3 dmg weapon, that potentialy pumps out 3 shots. I have used alitoic specters blob of 6-7 and withguide or even autarch they rule. The blaster realy done great work for me. Even with that profile its still an assult weapon. Great for going after mid tier units. The two buddies can do the flamer or help. I find with the specters move they van mostly get on target with the flamers to kill chaff and the blaster can go to work on tougher units like primaris or Other hard to kill stuff.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
FWIW, they just let slip that modifiers in 9th are capped at +1/-1.
A 6 will also always hit no matter what (not that it'll matter so much any more with modifiers capped).
This is going to have pretty huge implications for aeldari. Flyer spam was already falling out of favor, but it's surely dead now. And spectres are a lot less attractive if you can't stack - to hit on them too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/26 19:22:36
Does that mean we get back our offensive spells like Eldritch Storm?
What is this referring to exactly?
Guess to something they said in Q&A on twitch regarding 9th ed rules. Missed that one myself. Too much stuff coming and in too fast pace. Lagging connection not making things.
Tanks and monsters shooting out of melee, faling back out of combat you can be struct by enemy via stratagem. And that modifier cap is going to be big for eldar(though IMO makes better for game with less frustrating binary action. If this hurts eldar hopefully the point revisit that's likely to acomplish 9th ed on launch compensates)
Ouch.. so for the forseeable future the re-roll everything aura meta crap is here to stay with even less to mitigate it... The cap certainly hurts us the most i think.
Not trying to be all doom and gloom but certainly concerned. Mostly because the opening of the stream was on about how they have a new idea every 60 seconds and this edition is full of new and exciting ideas.. This rarely bodes well coming out of GW mouth.
As things currently stand the one use for banshees is now null and void if they cant tag big stuff.
I think im likely to take a break from playing and concentrate on panting and modelling while things settle and hopefully we get a new book sooner rather than later.
However exciting times ahead.
Does anyone have a link where I could watch the whole stream? I missed huge chunks of it.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
I've reposted a synopssis curated by reddit user Chaoticflanagan for any who dont follow the 40k subreddit which can be found here
Overall a mixed bag for us, the main changes seem to be more terrain rule introductions and CP normalisation. I think more interactivity with terrain is a win for the hobby as a whole, and ITC ground floor rules benefits us squishy elven types, however the return of blast plates make my guardian blob and max Dark Reaper squads tremble a little.
Stream summary:
A lot more obscuring terrain - no more drawing LoS through 3 windows.
Much more fun to play with terrain; the terrain will have a fun impact on the game. The battlefield itslelf will become the 3rd player of the game. Not just layering of extra complexities - it's clean and simple but with maximum impact. Most obvious is giving a piece of terrain the "obscuring" tag which blocks line of sight. Different degrees of cover, can go up it, can pass through it, etc. Wanted woods to be different than buildings, then craters, then swamps.
Fixed interactions where a monster can't reach you on the 2nd story because you blocked out the floor. Fixed a lot of the "gamey aspects" of terrain.
Properties will be applied to terrain at the start of the game
More guidelines on how much terrain is on the table
Changes to overwatch and changes to penalties for leaving close combat (mostly through strategems)
Core turn mechanics - remaining the same as 8th
Can spend CP to put units into reserve. You command points are used to do things your general would do as well. Can promote units. Reserve - come in on your board edge, or table edges. Keep things off the board until you want to use them. Gives a boost to melee armies.
Anything Tanks can do Monsters can do if not better.
More balanced missions.
Is random number of shots still a thing? Yes.
Pretty soon after the release of 9th, you'll see Deathwatch reworking.
40k rules team is now making the rules for ALL models - so no more seperate ForgeWorld rules team.
Vigilus books will still be used
Where will i get rules for the new space marines and necrons? In the boxes and future codices.
They are working on new codices.
can i always hit on 6s? Everyone can now hit on 6s.
Missions written with game size in mind. 500pt missions vs 2000pt missions vs 4000pt missions.
Core Rules are a bit longer (8 pages in 8th), some of that is due to expanding the rules and also because there are more examples. Tried to make the rules more concise. A bit longer but still pretty tight. Has a rules appendix - things that happen very rarely and are odd interactions. Put them in an appendix so they aren't in the core rules.
Capped modifiers; never better than +1 or -1.
Changed how flyers interact in the game. Can leave the board, not interact in the same way that infantry and vehicles on the battlefield. Shouldn't be any more gamey things you can do with them. More fun to use and less annoying against them.
Any changes to how moral works? yes. Nothing drastic - introduced 'combat attrition'; and more things that interact with morale. And armies that had morale mechanics are more powerful.
More units added to warhammer legends? Over time, almost certainly. But it will be gradual. No plans for carving great chunks out of codices.
How will command points work? Some armies have easy access to them and others didn't, they wanted to level the playing field. The command point totals are now linked to the size of the battle. Both armies will start with the same amount.
Power levels will be realigned regularly like match points are.
Mortal wounds mechanic? Unchanged.
Will soup still be viable? Yes. But if you want to take cool stuff from 2 codices, you're spending CPs to bring those pieces. Gives Narrative players more CPs to spend and gives competitive players more options for resource management and list tinkering.
Will future codices absorb some of the rules from Psychic Awakening and Vigilus? The new codices will take all the cool stuff from supplements and incorporate them. Not every stratagem may make the cut.
With the changes to Command points, will i still need to include troops in my army? In the same way you do now i guess, but you'll have more flexibility. You don't have to do anything. Right now, you're trying to maximize command points by unlocking as many battalions as possible. But you're not doing that now. Hopefully will see people bringing the models they want to take and not what they feel like they have to take.
What defines a blast weapon and what defines a horde? An appendix will denote a blast weapon. Codices will denote the blast type going forward. (They didn't answer what denotes a horde)
What's your favorite thing about the new addition? Stu: 2 things - 1 is terrain and excited about how terrain impacts a game. The other is the crusade content - those who have a slightly more narative lean for gaming. A method and tool box for telling cool stories over time. Pete: Encouraged by the balanced missions and being on the cutting edge of competitive wargamming and changes to command points to improve flexibility.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/27 01:01:57
The cap at -1 would be strange if they kept the full reroll ability. I wish it had never morphed from the original concept as it kept rerolls at a more reasonable level. It's the one mechanic the used to be nearly an Eldar exclusive (Guide) to where other armies get it easier and in greater capacity (Marines).
We shall see.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Its very early days, but having listened to the preview and the QA at least by the sounds of it we wont have to sink 100's of pts into squishy near pointless troops...
Sort of sad as ive invested into plenty of guardians and rangers but at the same time glad I wont have to paint them all now lol.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Argive wrote: Its very early days, but having listened to the preview and the QA at least by the sounds of it we wont have to sink 100's of pts into squishy near pointless troops...
Sort of sad as ive invested into plenty of guardians and rangers but at the same time glad I wont have to paint them all now lol.
The age of the wraith has come! I hope.
Keep in mind if you forego cheap troops you will struggle with board control and reserve denial which seems to become more essential. You will have even more stuff appearing out of nowhere near your army. Wraiths are less than stellar if they get anti-wraith units within 9" shooting and charging before you get to do anything about them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/27 06:49:58
Argive wrote: Its very early days, but having listened to the preview and the QA at least by the sounds of it we wont have to sink 100's of pts into squishy near pointless troops...
Sort of sad as ive invested into plenty of guardians and rangers but at the same time glad I wont have to paint them all now lol.
The age of the wraith has come! I hope.
Keep in mind if you forego cheap troops you will struggle with board control and reserve denial which seems to become more essential. You will have even more stuff appearing out of nowhere near your army. Wraiths are less than stellar if they get anti-wraith units within 9" shooting and charging before you get to do anything about them.
I get it. It will depend on exactly how this new CP generations work. If a battalion will be the standard free detachment then nothing really changes but at least we dont have to have a second battalion.
However, If I can just have bikes (bikes everywhere) instead...
We also don't know if the detachment structure will remain the same. For all we know you might have to have a troops choice in every type of detachment now as mandatory to get around this.
They did seem to insinuate that the idea that you have to take some things (I.e. a double battalion) to generate CP is going away. So the only incentive seems to be for actual board control/obsec which sounds like what it should be. So i can bring one or two troops units if I choose to but can easily have a wraith army if I don't for example.
Very curious how it all pans out. It would not be the first time people at GW say one thing and then it turns out being something entirely different.
Was hoping for one more yera in thsi edition tbf... But I cant wait for the rules now. The silliness commences.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
I will finally get the chance to play this weekend at a small ITC 3 round tourney. Now that 9th is announced, it further cemented me trying to run a non soup list. I still have 2 separate Craftworlds, technically, but it is easier for me as opposed to adding Harlequins and/Drukhari to the mix.
It is completely untested, but the army is nearly done (Vypers - still painting). Not expecting a lot, but I like the direction of the concept. List has been submitted, so changes to the list will likely not happen, but I will get into another event in June and would welcome feedback. If it is not obvious, I will spend one CP for the Windrider Host.
GW has absolutely no interest in creating an edition where nobody buys troops, especially right as they are raising prices on most of them. So I think you will see troops either coming down in cost significantly or going up in their worth in other ways, now that you don't de facto have to take them for CP generation. (And I am actually a huge fan of troops, especially aeldari troops, and I don't take them only or even mostly for CP generation.)
Leo_the_Rat wrote: @Sarigar- why take Saim Hann for your battalion? Why not give it the same abilities as your spearhead?
It is primarily because how they are painted. I've essentially own two Craftworld armies; one painted Iyanden and the other painted Saim Hann. The models in the Battalion and Outrider are painted Saim Hann. The Iyanden painted Spearhead detachment will utilize the custom Craftworld traits.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Sarigar wrote: I will finally get the chance to play this weekend at a small ITC 3 round tourney. Now that 9th is announced, it further cemented me trying to run a non soup list. I still have 2 separate Craftworlds, technically, but it is easier for me as opposed to adding Harlequins and/Drukhari to the mix.
It is completely untested, but the army is nearly done (Vypers - still painting). Not expecting a lot, but I like the direction of the concept. List has been submitted, so changes to the list will likely not happen, but I will get into another event in June and would welcome feedback. If it is not obvious, I will spend one CP for the Windrider Host.
CRAFTWORLD:
Battalion, Outrider - Saim Hann
Spearhead - Expert Crafters and Masterful Shots
COMMAND POINTS:10
WARLORD: Autarch Skyrunner
2000 points.
Looks good, plenty of guns and manoeuvrability with saim Han, their bikes are easy to underestimate. Between the scatter lasers and star cannons they should be able to put in good work. I still remain unconvinced on nightspinners, too much swinginess in both shots and anti armour. Sometimes they're amazing, sometimes they whiff hard. But I'm very interested to see how you get on.
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
Eldar- 4436 pts
