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Assuming that that's not just because they're "Astartes power swords" of course.
Good to hear they're working for you though, sticking with an unfashionable unit isn't always masochistic, there's often uses even for less optimal tools.
Wyldhunt wrote: Has anyone worked out a use for howling banshees yet? I play Iybraesil, so they're kind of my faction's most iconic unit. It would be nice to find a niche for them without feeling like I'm paying a tax for the sake of fluff.
In 8th, they were pretty good at shutting down non-flying vehicles or turning off overwatch before I charged in a harder-hitting melee unit. In 9th, overwatch is less of a thing, and tanks can just gun the banshees down while in melee with them. It doesn't seem fluffy or cost-effective to use them as suicide missiles that force tanks to shoot at them for a turn.
If I send them against a hard target, they just seem to bounce off, but if I send them against a squishy target , it rarely feels like they were worth their points or their seats in the expensive wave serpent they rode in on.
I've tried buffing them with a warlock and Doom to try and turn larger units into an off-brand melee hammer. It sooort of works, but it functionally adds a ton of points to their cost, and failing either psychic power really hurts them.
Any uses for them come to mind? Maybe I can just use them to sprint towards objectives and murder cheap objective holders before instantly dying the next turn? With the way objectives are laid out in 9th edition missions, I might be able to do that without buying them a serpent.
I have 2 squads of 10 in wave serpents in a ynnari list. Their stats aren't impressive I agree, but they always manage to do work. The wound rerolls from ynnari help out a lot with their strength problem. I leave them with war shout (because ynnari has to, for some reason) and that makes them stick around for a while against non-melee units. Usually vehicles have trouble clearing them in melee, cause you're turning off blast and stuff. Everyone is always surprised by how fast the move, so they manage to get past screens.
it looks like their power swords will be +1 str based on the vanguard marines data sheet. Making them str 4 is a big deal. With that they'll be viable imo.
Considering their likely targets get an extra wound while they likely dont get any extra attacks or damage? Probably not.
Will see. Its painful to watch this edition unfold but at least vypers, war walkers and weapons platforms can screen characters again. Thank god.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
I've been playing World Eater/Chaos Knight soup a lot recently, and I went back to Banshees the other night for a game on TTS. Jeez, talk about going from riches to rags...
Their only saving grace is their speed, but 9e leverages survivability (holding) and burst damage (taking), of which they have neither.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/13 07:50:14
Standard primaris are confirmed to stay at 2 wounds from the edge of silence data sheets, so it's likely just vets going up. I imagine most people will still use intercessors, so the marine match up only gets easier with that change.
40K Armies: Ultramarines, Tau, Ynnari, Orks, and Thousand Sons.
footfoe wrote: Standard primaris are confirmed to stay at 2 wounds from the edge of silence data sheets, so it's likely just vets going up. I imagine most people will still use intercessors, so the marine match up only gets easier with that change.
Confirmed all marines going to 2 W.
I am not lookign forward to chewing through DG marines.. or blightlords..
Jeeseus... 2 W khorne berserkers...
I mean... I don't even know what they going to have to do in order to let us compete. Its going to have to be obnoxious or we just have to wait this one out and hope for next edition...
It looks like another year of marine meta.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
footfoe wrote: Standard primaris are confirmed to stay at 2 wounds from the edge of silence data sheets, so it's likely just vets going up. I imagine most people will still use intercessors, so the marine match up only gets easier with that change.
Confirmed all marines going to 2 W.
I am not lookign forward to chewing through DG marines.. or blightlords..
Jeeseus... 2 W khorne berserkers...
I mean... I don't even know what they going to have to do in order to let us compete. Its going to have to be obnoxious or we just have to wait this one out and hope for next edition...
It looks like another year of marine meta.
This definitely doesn't bode well for Xenos races. I was super hype to play in the 9th edition with my renewed first love Eldar army. First the Flyer hit then this, oof. They turned an uphill battle into a straight up battle with a 90 degree incline.
footfoe wrote: Standard primaris are confirmed to stay at 2 wounds from the edge of silence data sheets, so it's likely just vets going up. I imagine most people will still use intercessors, so the marine match up only gets easier with that change.
Confirmed all marines going to 2 W.
I am not lookign forward to chewing through DG marines.. or blightlords.. Jeeseus... 2 W khorne berserkers...
I mean... I don't even know what they going to have to do in order to let us compete. Its going to have to be obnoxious or we just have to wait this one out and hope for next edition... It looks like another year of marine meta.
This definitely doesn't bode well for Xenos races. I was super hype to play in the 9th edition with my renewed first love Eldar army. First the Flyer hit then this, oof. They turned an uphill battle into a straight up battle with a 90 degree incline.
Actually my biggest fear is the new codex...
High probability we will get a knee-jerk over correction in response to the marines and chaos buffs and get "something" to make us feel like eldar should. Probably something obscene like ignoring stacking modifers cap/reroll saves etc. That's supposed to be our "shtick", get pointed accordingly, and then due to certain units+strats+traits we will get a 2 week FAQ neutering our entire main rules making the entire "shtick" irrelevant or just flat our removed and we will simply just be mediocare with one or two broken units that are still OP. Again.. (Looking at you CHE)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/14 01:26:50
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
What i'm most concerned is the point costs of troops. If a tac marine goes to 2 wounds for 18 pts, how is it justified that a Guardian costs 10? That seems... harsh.
Most curious how quickly they'll drop the rest of the codices. Several of the playtesters said the current points are just a bandaid to carry over until the codex for most armies, not sure what to make of that.
Cpt. Icanus wrote: What i'm most concerned is the point costs of troops. If a tac marine goes to 2 wounds for 18 pts, how is it justified that a Guardian costs 10? That seems... harsh.
Most curious how quickly they'll drop the rest of the codices. Several of the playtesters said the current points are just a bandaid to carry over until the codex for most armies, not sure what to make of that.
Aren't Rangers 15? And Dire Avengers 14?
3pts for +1S, +1T, +1W, +2Sv, and a much better gun.
Yeah that's the kicker. 5pts difference between a 2w marine w/ doctrines and a T3 4+ DA is a joke.
But these points are all over the place at the moment, I have faith balance will be restored at a general level. I just don't have faith that it will be in anything like a timely manner.
We can also just hope for some *Serious* rebalance.
I was midly amused with the possibility Banshees were upgrrade with an 4++ sav (the new models carry a bladeguard on their sword arm wich is only used to represent Forcefields on Autarchs)
but the Marine massive upgrade makes our already overpriced troops into some of the worst ingame.
We can be happy we'll get upgrades to our flamers,powerswords and chainswords for the time being.
I was midly amused with the possibility Banshees were upgrrade with an 4++ sav (the new models carry a bladeguard on their sword arm wich is only used to represent Forcefields on Autarchs)
but the Marine massive upgrade makes our already overpriced troops into some of the worst ingame.
We can be happy we'll get upgrades to our flamers,powerswords and chainswords for the time being.
The upgrades to power swords and possibly chainswords (assuming GW doesn't do something and make those changes only to human weapons) mean Banshees and Scorpions start to become less distinct from each other.
Banshees S4 -3 D1
Scorpions S4 -1 D1
I hope GW finds some way with the eventual Codex to give both these Aspects a viable use that is distinct from each other again.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/14 08:21:55
The main issue Iracundus is that most of our weapons have distinct names.
Guardians do wield chainswords and may get the upgraded one (despite hints the -1 AP it's just for marines only) but Scorpions wield Scorpions chainswords wich shouldn't be upgraded yet.
As today we only share 4x weapons with imperium wich are flamers (wraithlords), powerswords (Banshees Autarchs) , Chainswords (Storm guardians) and melta bombs (Fire dragons) but i do agree with you Scorps
should be our anti horde melee and Banshees our anti elite units.
P.S: As personal preference i'm still wishing for get back our Flamers for Warp spiders.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/14 11:26:05
-1 ap on storm guardians is actually a massive deal for them. I might give them a spin again once that rules drops. I do love q 24- blob of those guys...
grouchoben wrote: Yeah that's the kicker. 5pts difference between a 2w marine w/ doctrines and a T3 4+ DA is a joke.
But these points are all over the place at the moment, I have faith balance will be restored at a general level. I just don't have faith that it will be in anything like a timely manner.
Yeah with what we have now I feel there should have been a flat index for 9th, and when the rightfully inevitable "ive just paid nearly $100 for a codex and psychic awakening" came out they can give everyone the pdf/app version for free. As it is I feel they made the decision to drip feed in changes in a manner that best shifts books. That's my tin foil hat 2 cents.
On a more positive note I'm playing my first ever game of 40k on Sunday. My Ulthwe vs a friend's ultras. Running DAs in 2 Serpents, and a big bunch of axe bros. Also have some metal fire dragons from the early 90s that my uncle gifted me, so theyre up there with the DAs. Will probably hash the rules as my friend has also never played Warhammer, but we'll see how things go.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/14 22:22:42
Hopefully Banshee Powerswords get changed to be "master crafted" and they get +1S D2, so they can at the very minimum attempt to do their job at A2.
Really id like it to be +2S "aeldari" powerswords but i doubt gw wants to go back to 2e powerswords.
Though i imagine since power swords are going +1 strength then executioner will have to go back to +2 strength to compensate so at least the exarch should be S5
"If you are forced to use your trump card, then the battle is already lost"
So I've been running a few games against myself on TTS to try to get used to 9th. It usuallly take a few days to complete a game because I'm really busy with work, but hopefully I'll be able to get a few virtual games in soon.
I've been playing Craftworlds against Salamanders since they're the two armies I play and have an understanding of. Salamanders have been getting a lot of love from the competitive community since ninth dropped and I was curious to see how they get on. The answer is not well! I thought I'd picked a decent list, but against the fast and often flying firepower of the Eldar they're really struggling. Fly still seems incredibly useful with the denser terrain guidelines (I've been using the excellent pro tabletop tables from TTS workshop. The bikes and footslogging sallies just can't get into the firing positions that the craftworlders can. The craftworlds are 3-0 in my highly non scientific testing, at least the person in control is incompetent with both armies so that's a pretty good control measure! The last game was vital intelligence, with a score of 82-55. The sallies normally do ok for the first couple of turns, deleting vehicles with the eradicators, shutting down stuff with the outriders etc. But the eradicators never last more than a turn, Gravis and bikes are easy meat for star cannons and vibros. Anyone who wrote off vibro cannons should think again, against elites they do amazing work still and just zone out deepstriking in your deployment zone with ease. Fire and fade is now probably my favourite stategy, it's so handy for sneaking onto objectives once you've finished something off.
I'd expect white scars will probably be a tougher match up with their speed, Custodes I'm not sure, Deathguard will probably have the same problem as the sallies, just too ponderous.
I am working on a different list with less aggressors and more inceptors to try and help the sallies since I designed a TAC list which was supposed to push into the center and hold it but that doesn't work against this eldar list.
There's been a large obscuring piece of terrain in the deployment zones that I hide four squads behind with Asurman and two in deepstrike/reserve. With the 22 inch shuriken plus advance they threaten the midfield safely from behind cover while the vehicles move out at first and take out bikes and agressors then the avengers pop out to do the mopping up turn three onwards.
kingheff wrote: There's been a large obscuring piece of terrain in the deployment zones that I hide four squads behind with Asurman and two in deepstrike/reserve. With the 22 inch shuriken plus advance they threaten the midfield safely from behind cover while the vehicles move out at first and take out bikes and agressors then the avengers pop out to do the mopping up turn three onwards.
It appears that starcannons are the way to go vs. 2W Marines these days.
They may become commonplace.
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kingheff wrote: There's been a large obscuring piece of terrain in the deployment zones that I hide four squads behind with Asurman and two in deepstrike/reserve. With the 22 inch shuriken plus advance they threaten the midfield safely from behind cover while the vehicles move out at first and take out bikes and agressors then the avengers pop out to do the mopping up turn three onwards.
It appears that starcannons are the way to go vs. 2W Marines these days.
They may become commonplace.
They were already most common weapon i think.
Might see a dash of AML coz blast/
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
kingheff wrote: So I've been running a few games against myself on TTS to try to get used to 9th. It usuallly take a few days to complete a game because I'm really busy with work, but hopefully I'll be able to get a few virtual games in soon.
I've been playing Craftworlds against Salamanders since they're the two armies I play and have an understanding of. Salamanders have been getting a lot of love from the competitive community since ninth dropped and I was curious to see how they get on. The answer is not well! I thought I'd picked a decent list, but against the fast and often flying firepower of the Eldar they're really struggling. Fly still seems incredibly useful with the denser terrain guidelines (I've been using the excellent pro tabletop tables from TTS workshop. The bikes and footslogging sallies just can't get into the firing positions that the craftworlders can. The craftworlds are 3-0 in my highly non scientific testing, at least the person in control is incompetent with both armies so that's a pretty good control measure! The last game was vital intelligence, with a score of 82-55. The sallies normally do ok for the first couple of turns, deleting vehicles with the eradicators, shutting down stuff with the outriders etc. But the eradicators never last more than a turn, Gravis and bikes are easy meat for star cannons and vibros. Anyone who wrote off vibro cannons should think again, against elites they do amazing work still and just zone out deepstriking in your deployment zone with ease. Fire and fade is now probably my favourite stategy, it's so handy for sneaking onto objectives once you've finished something off.
I'd expect white scars will probably be a tougher match up with their speed, Custodes I'm not sure, Deathguard will probably have the same problem as the sallies, just too ponderous.
I am working on a different list with less aggressors and more inceptors to try and help the sallies since I designed a TAC list which was supposed to push into the center and hold it but that doesn't work against this eldar list.
How do you think the list will change with 2 wound tacs with special weapons ? at 18 pts a sallies 5 man tac squad with crack missle/metla and some rhinos and landspeeders/rhinos
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
So I've been running a few games against myself on TTS to try to get used to 9th. It usuallly take a few days to complete a game because I'm really busy with work, but hopefully I'll be able to get a few virtual games in soon.
I've been playing Craftworlds against Salamanders since they're the two armies I play and have an understanding of. Salamanders have been getting a lot of love from the competitive community since ninth dropped and I was curious to see how they get on. The answer is not well! I thought I'd picked a decent list, but against the fast and often flying firepower of the Eldar they're really struggling. Fly still seems incredibly useful with the denser terrain guidelines (I've been using the excellent pro tabletop tables from TTS workshop. The bikes and footslogging sallies just can't get into the firing positions that the craftworlders can. The craftworlds are 3-0 in my highly non scientific testing, at least the person in control is incompetent with both armies so that's a pretty good control measure! The last game was vital intelligence, with a score of 82-55. The sallies normally do ok for the first couple of turns, deleting vehicles with the eradicators, shutting down stuff with the outriders etc. But the eradicators never last more than a turn, Gravis and bikes are easy meat for star cannons and vibros. Anyone who wrote off vibro cannons should think again, against elites they do amazing work still and just zone out deepstriking in your deployment zone with ease. Fire and fade is now probably my favourite stategy, it's so handy for sneaking onto objectives once you've finished something off.
I'd expect white scars will probably be a tougher match up with their speed, Custodes I'm not sure, Deathguard will probably have the same problem as the sallies, just too ponderous.
I am working on a different list with less aggressors and more inceptors to try and help the sallies since I designed a TAC list which was supposed to push into the center and hold it but that doesn't work against this eldar list.
[/spoiler]
How do you think the list will change with 2 wound tacs with special weapons ? at 18 pts a sallies 5 man tac squad with crack missle/metla and some rhinos and landspeeders/rhinos
Different flavours of marines don't worry me too much, lots of invulnerable saves or chaff would probably worry me more.
Non Primaris Marines can lean very hard on the special and heavy weapon front. Razorbacks toting 5-mans with twin specials (plus the turret weapons on the tank) are gonna be popping back up something fierce I expect.
Sterling191 wrote: Non Primaris Marines can lean very hard on the special and heavy weapon front. Razorbacks toting 5-mans with twin specials (plus the turret weapons on the tank) are gonna be popping back up something fierce I expect.
Especialy if you drop them in some cover. Shifting those is going to be a ballache just like primaris except the last man in the squad can keep throwing out krak missiles/meltas or what not..
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
grouchoben wrote:
But these points are all over the place at the moment, I have faith balance will be restored at a general level. I just don't have faith that it will be in anything like a timely manner.
GW's hardback addiction has to go, period.
This is my stance. 9th is,.. a new game and right now, meta is shifting for a few months, covid lock outs etc. Also the books will change the game more. Who knows maybe Banshees will be good after 5 editions meh.
On that note Is Ynarri all but ,.. dead? pun intended I guess. I don't see a tactica thread in the first 3 pages of the Tactics sub-forum.
I think the problem with ynarri is that they just don't do enough on their own compared to the parent factions.
Custom craftworlds, drukhari and Harlequins all have better options than ynarri bar things like the wraithseer combos but the new detachment rules kind of screwed that up too so any ynarri chat is probably subsumed into the craftworlds thread etc.
Currently i'm also contemplating whether i play pure Craftworld, Ynnari or a mix of both.
What do i gain from Ynnari?
1) Ultra tough Wraithseer(s)
2) Advance and charge Shining Spears
3) First strike in close combat
As i like to run Shining spears and Wraithlords let's see the pros and cons of those units.
- Wraithlord -
Ynnari: Occasionally first strike or +1 to hit in cc.
CWE: Better hits and wounds with expert crafters. Access to doom.
The ynnari part can really mess with the enemies plans but CWE is definitely more consistent.
- Shining Spears -
Ynnari: Occasionally first strike or +1 to hit in cc. Access to advance and charge strategem. Lack of fortune and protect.
CWE: More attacks with hunters of ancient relics and either expert crafters or headstrong for easier charge rolls. Defensive buffs.
With Ynnari i'd tend to run them in small squads as they lack protection and it helps to activate SfD.
Multiple squads are harder to hide in the webway though and Ynnari lack the charge bonus of CWE.
With CWE i would take large squads. Fortune and protect for durability and doom for better damage.
They can hide in the webway and appear with +4 to charge with Ghostwalk, Headstrong and Swooping Dive.
Conclusion: Apart from the Wraithseer i think Ynnari lose too much of the great Craftworld Abilities and Psychics.
If i want to run the Wraithseer (and i want to run a wraithseer!) i'll just add a cheap patrol detachment. There i can put the Yncarne as well.
The downside is that this messes with my specialized CWE detachments.
e.g. Expert Crafters + Masterful Shots for the shooty part and Hunters and Headstrong for the punchy part.
Instead i have to make a compromise and run the CWE detachment with Expert Crafters and Hunters of Ancient Relics.
Somehow, Ynnari are in an odd spot currently. Not unplayable but they lack some incentives to take them over their pure counterparts.
Great discussions. One thing I've also noticed is my pure CW lists is having two detachments, Expert Crafters/Masterful Shots and Hunters/Savage Blades. It builds the shooting and assault/counter assault capability. I do think this will become more common as more games are played. Another option has been to use a Harlequin detachment for the assault/counter assault element alongside the Crafters CW detachment.
Ynarri do seem to be in a weird spot. Other than the Wraithseer model, I have a difficult time building a detachment that is more efficient than a Harlequin/CW/Drukhari detachment.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Are Hemlock Wraithfighters bad? I've owned one nicely painted up since it came out and I happily used it a bit last edition but I've heard no one mention it this edition.
Did it go up in points so much it became unusable or the lack of stacking modifiers? I'm playing casual competitive and found it was fine before.
Eldar- 4436 pts
