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Togusa wrote: Why doesn't this tactica have all the units ranked like all the other tactica threads? Or is that rank in another thread?
Several reasons, but the newness of the Codex and the fact that a lot of our army has the same basic profile and weapon options make such a list have little meaning.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Drider wrote: Anyone else notice that the canoness in the box has an illegal load out according to the sheet in the codex?
How so? I don't see what's wrong with her loadout?
Cant have the Rod and Plasma Pistol.
The Canoness data sheet says they can take one thing from the pistol list to replace their bolt pistol. I don't see the problem.
If you do that you don't have bolt pistol and chainsword to replace to boltgun and power sword which is required to get rod. And if you do that you don't have bolt pistol to replace to plasma pistol
Togusa wrote: Why doesn't this tactica have all the units ranked like all the other tactica threads? Or is that rank in another thread?
Several reasons, but the newness of the Codex and the fact that a lot of our army has the same basic profile and weapon options make such a list have little meaning.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Drider wrote: Anyone else notice that the canoness in the box has an illegal load out according to the sheet in the codex?
How so? I don't see what's wrong with her loadout?
Cant have the Rod and Plasma Pistol.
The Canoness data sheet says they can take one thing from the pistol list to replace their bolt pistol. I don't see the problem.
Only a Canoness equipped with 1 boltgun and 1 power sword can take a Rod of Office.
Togusa wrote: Why doesn't this tactica have all the units ranked like all the other tactica threads? Or is that rank in another thread?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Drider wrote: Anyone else notice that the canoness in the box has an illegal load out according to the sheet in the codex?
How so? I don't see what's wrong with her loadout?
I always felt unit rankings were kind of pointless. Especially now a days with <chapter traits>, formations, allies interaction, and countless other little things, a unit can vary wildly in effectiveness just based on how it's run. You'll notice most of the tactics threads that have one is almost always woefully out of date within months, and that's if a group can agree on it. They're really just more trouble than they're worth in my opinion.
For example, take the battlesisters squad, depending on order it's either ignoring Ap2 and less, advancing and shooting with no penalties, or doubling it's attacks in melee. How do you rank that? Also, how do you rank it as it's the only troop choice you have? It could be absolutely garbage but if you want to run sisters you don't have much of a choice do you? Or maybe you do, if you consider allies a solution. Simply put theyre gonna be great for some lists, not as much for others. There's nothing wrong with discussing strengths and weaknesses of a unit, but most of time I feel people fall into this trap of "internet says unit X is good, so I'll run that" without understanding why it's being run or what purpose it serves. You can see that when a tournament winning list gets posted and inevitably someone posts "well that units trash, I can't believe he won using that." Alternatively, you can often spot a new player because they just copied a winning list from a tourney or spam a unit beloved to be powerful, and yet they lose because they don't get *why* it was being used.
But maybe that's a discussion for another time.
As for sisters specifically, I'm pleasantly surprised with the internal balance of the units. There are very few units I looked at that were blatantly superior to the alternative, and the one case that I immediately noticed (mortifiers vs penitent engines) a quick reread showed the penitent engines do have some interesting trade offs like a better FNP and zealot. I'm sure there are a couple of duds aside from the weird little units like Arco flagellants, but the main sisters units seem solid all around for the most part. I feel you could make a favorite unit work pretty well if you built with it in mind.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Togusa wrote: Why doesn't this tactica have all the units ranked like all the other tactica threads? Or is that rank in another thread?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Drider wrote: Anyone else notice that the canoness in the box has an illegal load out according to the sheet in the codex?
How so? I don't see what's wrong with her loadout?
I always felt unit rankings were kind of pointless. Especially now a days with <chapter traits>, formations, allies interaction, and countless other little things, a unit can vary wildly in effectiveness just based on how it's run. You'll notice most of the tactics threads that have one is almost always woefully out of date within months, and that's if a group can agree on it. They're really just more trouble than they're worth in my opinion.
For example, take the battlesisters squad, depending on order it's either ignoring Ap2 and less, advancing and shooting with no penalties, or doubling it's attacks in melee. How do you rank that? Also, how do you rank it as it's the only troop choice you have? It could be absolutely garbage but if you want to run sisters you don't have much of a choice do you? Or maybe you do, if you consider allies a solution. Simply put theyre gonna be great for some lists, not as much for others. There's nothing wrong with discussing strengths and weaknesses of a unit, but most of time I feel people fall into this trap of "internet says unit X is good, so I'll run that" without understanding why it's being run or what purpose it serves. You can see that when a tournament winning list gets posted and inevitably someone posts "well that units trash, I can't believe he won using that." Alternatively, you can often spot a new player because they just copied a winning list from a tourney or spam a unit beloved to be powerful, and yet they lose because they don't get *why* it was being used.
But maybe that's a discussion for another time.
As for sisters specifically, I'm pleasantly surprised with the internal balance of the units. There are very few units I looked at that were blatantly superior to the alternative, and the one case that I immediately noticed (mortifiers vs penitent engines) a quick reread showed the penitent engines do have some interesting trade offs like a better FNP and zealot. I'm sure there are a couple of duds aside from the weird little units like Arco flagellants, but the main sisters units seem solid all around for the most part. I feel you could make a favorite unit work pretty well if you built with it in mind.
Arcos actually are also pretty great with their massive number of attacks and cheap bodies.
Honestly, the only things in the book that are 'bad' are crusaders, DCA, and Immolators. Crusaders and DCA because of their unit sizes and just being worse arcos and Immolators thanks to the nerfs to dominions and some really baffling nerfs to the tank itself.
Togusa wrote: Why doesn't this tactica have all the units ranked like all the other tactica threads? Or is that rank in another thread?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Drider wrote: Anyone else notice that the canoness in the box has an illegal load out according to the sheet in the codex?
How so? I don't see what's wrong with her loadout?
I always felt unit rankings were kind of pointless. Especially now a days with <chapter traits>, formations, allies interaction, and countless other little things, a unit can vary wildly in effectiveness just based on how it's run. You'll notice most of the tactics threads that have one is almost always woefully out of date within months, and that's if a group can agree on it. They're really just more trouble than they're worth in my opinion.
For example, take the battlesisters squad, depending on order it's either ignoring Ap2 and less, advancing and shooting with no penalties, or doubling it's attacks in melee. How do you rank that? Also, how do you rank it as it's the only troop choice you have? It could be absolutely garbage but if you want to run sisters you don't have much of a choice do you? Or maybe you do, if you consider allies a solution. Simply put theyre gonna be great for some lists, not as much for others. There's nothing wrong with discussing strengths and weaknesses of a unit, but most of time I feel people fall into this trap of "internet says unit X is good, so I'll run that" without understanding why it's being run or what purpose it serves. You can see that when a tournament winning list gets posted and inevitably someone posts "well that units trash, I can't believe he won using that." Alternatively, you can often spot a new player because they just copied a winning list from a tourney or spam a unit beloved to be powerful, and yet they lose because they don't get *why* it was being used.
But maybe that's a discussion for another time.
As for sisters specifically, I'm pleasantly surprised with the internal balance of the units. There are very few units I looked at that were blatantly superior to the alternative, and the one case that I immediately noticed (mortifiers vs penitent engines) a quick reread showed the penitent engines do have some interesting trade offs like a better FNP and zealot. I'm sure there are a couple of duds aside from the weird little units like Arco flagellants, but the main sisters units seem solid all around for the most part. I feel you could make a favorite unit work pretty well if you built with it in mind.
Arcos actually are also pretty great with their massive number of attacks and cheap bodies.
Honestly, the only things in the book that are 'bad' are crusaders, DCA, and Immolators. Crusaders and DCA because of their unit sizes and just being worse arcos and Immolators thanks to the nerfs to dominions and some really baffling nerfs to the tank itself.
Lammia's hot take: Immolators are definitely overpriced for what they do, but not actually outrageously so. Plus, they're only competing with the Repressor, so there's not a whole lot of options...
Togusa wrote: Why doesn't this tactica have all the units ranked like all the other tactica threads? Or is that rank in another thread?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Drider wrote: Anyone else notice that the canoness in the box has an illegal load out according to the sheet in the codex?
How so? I don't see what's wrong with her loadout?
I always felt unit rankings were kind of pointless. Especially now a days with <chapter traits>, formations, allies interaction, and countless other little things, a unit can vary wildly in effectiveness just based on how it's run. You'll notice most of the tactics threads that have one is almost always woefully out of date within months, and that's if a group can agree on it. They're really just more trouble than they're worth in my opinion.
For example, take the battlesisters squad, depending on order it's either ignoring Ap2 and less, advancing and shooting with no penalties, or doubling it's attacks in melee. How do you rank that? Also, how do you rank it as it's the only troop choice you have? It could be absolutely garbage but if you want to run sisters you don't have much of a choice do you? Or maybe you do, if you consider allies a solution. Simply put theyre gonna be great for some lists, not as much for others. There's nothing wrong with discussing strengths and weaknesses of a unit, but most of time I feel people fall into this trap of "internet says unit X is good, so I'll run that" without understanding why it's being run or what purpose it serves. You can see that when a tournament winning list gets posted and inevitably someone posts "well that units trash, I can't believe he won using that." Alternatively, you can often spot a new player because they just copied a winning list from a tourney or spam a unit beloved to be powerful, and yet they lose because they don't get *why* it was being used.
But maybe that's a discussion for another time.
As for sisters specifically, I'm pleasantly surprised with the internal balance of the units. There are very few units I looked at that were blatantly superior to the alternative, and the one case that I immediately noticed (mortifiers vs penitent engines) a quick reread showed the penitent engines do have some interesting trade offs like a better FNP and zealot. I'm sure there are a couple of duds aside from the weird little units like Arco flagellants, but the main sisters units seem solid all around for the most part. I feel you could make a favorite unit work pretty well if you built with it in mind.
Arcos actually are also pretty great with their massive number of attacks and cheap bodies.
Honestly, the only things in the book that are 'bad' are crusaders, DCA, and Immolators. Crusaders and DCA because of their unit sizes and just being worse arcos and Immolators thanks to the nerfs to dominions and some really baffling nerfs to the tank itself.
Lammia's hot take: Immolators are definitely overpriced for what they do, but not actually outrageously so. Plus, they're only competing with the Repressor, so there's not a whole lot of options...
and the repressor is an OOPFW mini so for a lotta people it might as well not exist
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
I was mostly thinking of the fact that Unless you're doing the Melta-box or Heavy Flamer box, the Immolator has the advantage of Sacred Rites and Acts of Faith to do its job, though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As well as a potentially useful specific Stratagem
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/06 04:59:55
.. thats right, unless the repressor is updated technicly it doesn't get that. although things like that should obviously be assumed for friendly games.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
BrianDavion wrote: .. thats right, unless the repressor is updated technicly it doesn't get that. although things like that should obviously be assumed for friendly games.
While you're unlikely to run into any issues in friendly games, I caution people from making assumptions. That's how uncomfortable conflicts occur midgame and can easily be avoided
IMHO Sororitas mech should play a supporting rather than starring role anyways, and then be flavored to taste.
For example, Exorcists are pretty good support tanks, but being unable to choose which missile it fires means it can't really be your bread and butter, though it can be tailored to support in a specific way.
Similarly, Rhinos are great for just blasting upfield. Need some characters to catch up to the Zephyrim? Need some Repentia delivered, stat? Rhinos have you covered on the cheap.
Immolators are just as good at getting upfield as Rhinos and have more firepower to boot while they do so, but they only carry 6 and are considerably more expensive. I'd use these in the flank attack or reaction role - they're not durable enough to make up the main effort IMO (especially for cost) but they have plenty of power to make themselves and their contents felt while the enemy is more heavily engaged elsewhere on the table. One battalion of Immolators, with 3x melta BSS and 2x Canoness, perhaps with 1x Imagifier, would make a fine speedy flanking force, using all the transport slots while having considerable anti-infantry firepower and the speed to get the meltas close to something critical. It'd still be small enough to ignore as well, if your main effort (e.g. Celestine + Zephyrim or angryhurricane Argent Shroud blobs) are causing a dust-up somewhere else.
The Repressor is actually not that great. I own 3, and I simply think that the new age of Sisters mech killed it. Mech plays a supporting role, while the Repressor wants to be the star. You're either not using all 6 fire points for useful guns (yay, bolters), you're spending a billion points on it and the contents (multi-melta rets) when it might be better just to take a second copy of the contents, or you're overpaying for a Rhino. Ironically I think this transport is beset employed with Inquisitorial Acolytes and an Inquisitor on-board, since they can have 6x (or even 5x) special weapons.
The Repressor is actually not that great. I own 3, and I simply think that the new age of Sisters mech killed it. Mech plays a supporting role, while the Repressor wants to be the star. You're either not using all 6 fire points for useful guns (yay, bolters), you're spending a billion points on it and the contents (multi-melta rets) when it might be better just to take a second copy of the contents, or you're overpaying for a Rhino. Ironically I think this transport is beset employed with Inquisitorial Acolytes and an Inquisitor on-board, since they can have 6x (or even 5x) special weapons.
If you own 3 an feel it's been killed, then you wouldn't mind parting ways with 1-2 of them, right?
"Elysians: For when you absolutely, positively, must have 100% casualties"
The Repressor is actually not that great. I own 3, and I simply think that the new age of Sisters mech killed it. Mech plays a supporting role, while the Repressor wants to be the star. You're either not using all 6 fire points for useful guns (yay, bolters), you're spending a billion points on it and the contents (multi-melta rets) when it might be better just to take a second copy of the contents, or you're overpaying for a Rhino. Ironically I think this transport is beset employed with Inquisitorial Acolytes and an Inquisitor on-board, since they can have 6x (or even 5x) special weapons.
If you own 3 an feel it's been killed, then you wouldn't mind parting ways with 1-2 of them, right?
1.Buy Garden of Morr set or whatever its called now
2.Buy some cheap rhinos on facebook/ebay
3.????
4. PROFIT
The Repressor is actually not that great. I own 3, and I simply think that the new age of Sisters mech killed it. Mech plays a supporting role, while the Repressor wants to be the star. You're either not using all 6 fire points for useful guns (yay, bolters), you're spending a billion points on it and the contents (multi-melta rets) when it might be better just to take a second copy of the contents, or you're overpaying for a Rhino. Ironically I think this transport is beset employed with Inquisitorial Acolytes and an Inquisitor on-board, since they can have 6x (or even 5x) special weapons.
If you own 3 an feel it's been killed, then you wouldn't mind parting ways with 1-2 of them, right?
The Repressor is actually not that great. I own 3, and I simply think that the new age of Sisters mech killed it. Mech plays a supporting role, while the Repressor wants to be the star. You're either not using all 6 fire points for useful guns (yay, bolters), you're spending a billion points on it and the contents (multi-melta rets) when it might be better just to take a second copy of the contents, or you're overpaying for a Rhino. Ironically I think this transport is beset employed with Inquisitorial Acolytes and an Inquisitor on-board, since they can have 6x (or even 5x) special weapons.
If you own 3 an feel it's been killed, then you wouldn't mind parting ways with 1-2 of them, right?
Not to derail things but if you really want 3 I know a site that has them. Send me a pm.
Re Immolators - I didn't think they were worth taking when they could have a 4++. I don't think they are worth it now. To be fair I also am struggling to see the value in Dominions at this point in time too.
stupid question: Crusaders, DCA, Arcos...and Repentia Superiors...they don't take up slots, right? So can I just take loads of them? I remember seeing some units (like the Court Of The Archon) that had "if you include x unit, you can take y-number of these and they don't use up a slot" but there doesn't seem to be a restriction to the number of priestly buddies or whip ladies I can take.
While i still favor mech sisters, i more or less agree with Unit here. the cost increases due to heavy bolters on immolators. loss of dominion vanguard, plus the loss of a special weapon option or two per unit took out my interest in running as much mech. im still eyeing the repressor depending on plausible rule interactions, but if that falls through the best argument to the repressor currently is it can still be advanced and pop it's flamer under argent shroud, making it almost compete with the immolator. but at those points theres probably better things to buy.
Don't be too despairing, I didn't say mech is dead or uninteresting. For example, my Bloody Rose list is looking at using loads of Zephyrim and Celestine, and then anyone else rocking up behind them in Rhinos.
We still do mech best - even with the Sister Superior nerf, we still have a whole buttfuckload of special weapons in our army, and our heavy weapon infantry can move (re: disembark) and shoot without penalty.
I am using my Argent Shroud infantry to close quickly in my Argent Shroud metal-girls list, but the reason I'm planning on Rhino-rushing with Bloody Rose is speed. Sororitas still prefer to be <12" away or in melee, so I think mech is a good way to get there Turn 2, and smoke generators are a good way to endure Turn 1.
It's a great way to get characters pre-positioned for deep-striking Zephyrim, or to keep up with Zephyrim deployed on the board (for example).
Other than the inability to take an extra boltgun taped to your current boltgun, how have Sisters Superior been nerfed? Your basic squads can still bring 3 special weapons thanks to combis, no?
Lemondish wrote: Other than the inability to take an extra boltgun taped to your current boltgun, how have Sisters Superior been nerfed? Your basic squads can still bring 3 special weapons thanks to combis, no?
Well, yes, other than the way in which they've been nerfed, they've not been nerfed, it's true.
Lemondish wrote: Other than the inability to take an extra boltgun taped to your current boltgun, how have Sisters Superior been nerfed? Your basic squads can still bring 3 special weapons thanks to combis, no?
Yeah, despite losing Storm Bolters, Sister Superiors still have some interesting options. Twin Bolt Pistols, Hand Flamers, Inferno Pistols, and Plasma Pistol/Combi Plasma all add some interesting options to choose from.
