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mortis tkreat range is 9+3d6. Average less than 20. If opponent isn't deploying as far as possbible looking at triple 6 roll. T1 charge is not likely.

For cc zealot is nice. 75% vs 66%

Plus chearer than mortis.

I see pekitent engines more like counter charge unit waiting for enemy to engage you in cc. Mortis is better for charging forward

Argent Shroud Dominions are kinda' neat. They don't REQUIRE the Rhino, yet they get the job done because of Vanguard Advance and then 1st turn Advance. They can get into juice range pretty consistently with Meltas, and ASSUREDLY can do it for the Storm Bolter shenanigans.

Someone said DoomsDay arks are a hard counter for us BUT it turns out the StormBolter Dominion are a pretty good option against that PARTICULAR threat. Another fun observation.

The list I'm contemplating will use Argent Shroud for both Multimelta Retributors and the Dominion, while the Valorous Heart will form the core of the army.

I'm noodling at this stage, but it seems like it could be quite hard hitting, quite early, and then quite hearty afterwards. The target priority confusion it can bring seems really great.

I'd love to squeeze more command points in, and might be able to get ti to 14 and still do what I want. I lose four bolter sisters by doing it. Maybe worth it, maybe not. This army relies on resource management more than any army I can think of right now, so it's hard to say how much that added point will matter, but it could.

And it blows my mind but I actually took 5 Celestians. The characters are too important to give up early to eliminator type units. There are a fair amount of those running around now, even if they aren't absolutely setting the meta on their own. They are easy to squeeze into most lists even if only three, so I am weary enough of them to take just a few. Testing is required of course.

2 dda will not average exorcist/immolator causing 5.14 per dda in average to russ chaspis. Which don'' have inv save.

Celestians are pretty sweet imo. Only issue is elite as you are dlready commiting for 6 bss squads but for point attack, ws, bodyguard and full to hit rerolls new style.

ryzouken wrote:
At 20 points, a single Geminae seems useful for filling an Elite spot in a brigade on the ultra cheap. You can't keep Celestine in the same detachment, but in a brigade + battalion set up, you could toss Celestine in the battalion and a geminae in the brigade if you still wanted Celestine.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the (worthless) Geminae didn't take up a slot.

 deviantduck wrote:

ryzouken wrote:
At 20 points, a single Geminae seems useful for filling an Elite spot in a brigade on the ultra cheap. You can't keep Celestine in the same detachment, but in a brigade + battalion set up, you could toss Celestine in the battalion and a geminae in the brigade if you still wanted Celestine.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the (worthless) Geminae didn't take up a slot.

Only if st cel is in their detachment.

But, is it really worth it if for like 25 points more you can have a freakin' imagifier?

tneva82 wrote:
mortis tkreat range is 9+3d6. Average less than 20. If opponent isn't deploying as far as possbible looking at triple 6 roll. T1 charge is not likely.

For cc zealot is nice. 75% vs 66%

Plus chearer than mortis.

I see pekitent engines more like counter charge unit waiting for enemy to engage you in cc. Mortis is better for charging forward

Go second. Easy BR1 charge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

ryzouken wrote:
At 20 points, a single Geminae seems useful for filling an Elite spot in a brigade on the ultra cheap. You can't keep Celestine in the same detachment, but in a brigade + battalion set up, you could toss Celestine in the battalion and a geminae in the brigade if you still wanted Celestine.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the (worthless) Geminae didn't take up a slot.

Only if st cel is in their detachment.

But, is it really worth it if for like 25 points more you can have a freakin' imagifier?

Even an extra 15 for a dialogus or Hospitaller seems massively more useful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
2 dda will not average exorcist/immolator causing 5.14 per dda in average to russ chaspis. Which don'' have inv save.

Celestians are pretty sweet imo. Only issue is elite as you are dlready commiting for 6 bss squads but for point attack, ws, bodyguard and full to hit rerolls new style.

The problem with this is that they'll probably never do 'average' damage to an exorcist. Your opponent is definitely going to be using their buffs and CP to take out your exorcists.

As great as quantum shielding is, leaving an exorcist alive is still incredibly risky due to the potential of just eating 9 S8 AP-3 shots to the face. They'll want to kill it quickly.

Sure. But you have 3, 3 dda will spend 3 turns it assuming you do nothing. Unlikely at that

ERJAK wrote:

 mrwhoop wrote:
I just received a Celestine model and I've been looking at the geminae with my Ebon Chalice detachment. Getting to ignore the MWs on a 5+ would seem to help run those models or even just use a MD if it means keeping it alive for another unit to shoot her. But then again the use of a 5 on surviving vs say damage or a invuln save still makes it seem meh. I think I'll try it out and see how much fire it soaks vs my meta of loyal marines and BL CSM.

How you gonna do that when they don't get <ORDER> and can't benefit from convictions? Also, can't use MD on FNPs because they're not techinically saves.

The geminae are gak, unforunately. I wouldn't even assemble them.

Ah, so it would seem. Oh well I suppose I can just make them superiors for some zeraphim.

Having my first game with sisters on Friday against a friend fledgling Tau force. Will be interesting to see how we fare.

 deviantduck wrote:

ryzouken wrote:
At 20 points, a single Geminae seems useful for filling an Elite spot in a brigade on the ultra cheap. You can't keep Celestine in the same detachment, but in a brigade + battalion set up, you could toss Celestine in the battalion and a geminae in the brigade if you still wanted Celestine.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the (worthless) Geminae didn't take up a slot.

Im really confused. Why are the Geminae really bad? They are characters right? can't they do the thing they used to do? Plus they are semi immortal.

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

ryzouken wrote:
At 20 points, a single Geminae seems useful for filling an Elite spot in a brigade on the ultra cheap. You can't keep Celestine in the same detachment, but in a brigade + battalion set up, you could toss Celestine in the battalion and a geminae in the brigade if you still wanted Celestine.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the (worthless) Geminae didn't take up a slot.

Im really confused. Why are the Geminae really bad? They are characters right? can't they do the thing they used to do? Plus they are semi immortal.

I'm not quite sure why people have been claiming them to be the worst unit in the game (stiff competition etc etc) - but they don't synergise with an army that is all about synergy.

But arguably yes, they are cheap slot fillers but then sisters have some great elite choices.

Cynically they should have got blessed blades so they could be cheap combat missiles capable of menacing characters etc.

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

ryzouken wrote:
At 20 points, a single Geminae seems useful for filling an Elite spot in a brigade on the ultra cheap. You can't keep Celestine in the same detachment, but in a brigade + battalion set up, you could toss Celestine in the battalion and a geminae in the brigade if you still wanted Celestine.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the (worthless) Geminae didn't take up a slot.

Im really confused. Why are the Geminae really bad? They are characters right? can't they do the thing they used to do? Plus they are semi immortal.

They weren't ever any good. What was 'good' was how they interacted as part of Celestine's unit. Since they lost that in the Beta Codex and Celestine became overpriced rubbish, that haven't had a place.

Geminae look like they should be "Super Zephyrim" with either similar rules buff (eg. wounding buff), and / or a stats buff to emphasize their character status (eg 3-4W per model).

They "should" be a Zephyrim/Seraphim force multiplier, with auras buffing their other jump pack sisters.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
Im really confused. Why are the Geminae really bad? They are characters right? can't they do the thing they used to do? Plus they are semi immortal.

Because the "thing they used to do" was take guaranteed wounds instead of Celestine and revive at the start of each turn. Both aspects have been heavily nerfed:

- They only intercept attacks on a 2+ and are harder to keep with Celestine since they have to make charge rolls independently.
- They went from a 2+ to a 3+ save. Not the end of the world, but it is a liability on T3 units that can be spammed to death with low STR shots.
- Healing Tears only works if they've taken a wound or casualty but not been destroyed. If your opponent manages to pick them both off they're gone for good, and picking of T3, W2, 3+/4++ troops isn't all that hard unless you can hide behind the Character rule.

So they're a shadow of their former selves and tough to justify unless you are desperate to protect Celestine from character snipers.

What are people opinions on Thaddeus the purifier? Is he worth the extra 12 points over the misssionary?

Pauly wrote:
What are people opinions on Thaddeus the purifier? Is he worth the extra 12 points over the misssionary?

Compared to the Missionary, he gains a power maul instead of a chainsword and has the servo stubber instead of an autogun (so small increase in combat power). He loses the ability that prevents models from fleeing. So no, he's definitely not worth it for 50 points.

On a related note, it might be entertaining to bring Pious Vorne instead. She's a character with a heavy flamer and a decent melee weapon, plus the Zealot rule. 3 wounds makes her squishy even with her 5+ FnP, but for 25 points could be worth it as a brigade filler or something.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Pauly wrote:
What are people opinions on Thaddeus the purifier? Is he worth the extra 12 points over the misssionary?

Compared to the Missionary, he gains a power maul instead of a chainsword and has the servo stubber instead of an autogun (so small increase in combat power). He loses the ability that prevents models from fleeing. So no, he's definitely not worth it for 50 points.

On a related note, it might be entertaining to bring Pious Vorne instead. She's a character with a heavy flamer and a decent melee weapon, plus the Zealot rule. 3 wounds makes her squishy even with her 5+ FnP, but for 25 points could be worth it as a brigade filler or something.

She breakes Order trait bonus.

I'm assembling my sisters, and i'm not fond of the repentia heads.

I would like something less grim, possibily with really long hairs like banshees and wytches, but i cannot find suitable bits, even in 3rd party.

Someone has any good idea for a repentia head swap?

Daughters of Khaine from Sigmar?

Spoletta wrote:
I'm assembling my sisters, and i'm not fond of the repentia heads.

I would like something less grim, possibily with really long hairs like banshees and wytches, but i cannot find suitable bits, even in 3rd party.

Someone has any good idea for a repentia head swap?

Long hair is always tough because you often have to model it around the model, so basically the hair has to go up. Daughters of khaine are good, but I think you'd need to do something with the crowns to make them repentia-y. Maybe paint them a dull, rusty iron with a little bit of blood dripping down the brows and onto the faces, implying that they're some kind of penitent torture device?

So for all you guys running Valerous Heart Brigades:
How do you run your BSS? Just 6x5 girls barebones?

I´m pretty tempted to rock 2 SBs each tbh to have them actually do something when shooting.

 lash92 wrote:
So for all you guys running Valerous Heart Brigades:
How do you run your BSS? Just 6x5 girls barebones?

I´m pretty tempted to rock 2 SBs each tbh to have them actually do something when shooting.

2 SB is really cheap (just 24 points for 6 squads to have them), so that's probably worth doing. I did that in my one test game with the new 'dex, and it worked okay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lammia wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Pauly wrote:
What are people opinions on Thaddeus the purifier? Is he worth the extra 12 points over the misssionary?

Compared to the Missionary, he gains a power maul instead of a chainsword and has the servo stubber instead of an autogun (so small increase in combat power). He loses the ability that prevents models from fleeing. So no, he's definitely not worth it for 50 points.

On a related note, it might be entertaining to bring Pious Vorne instead. She's a character with a heavy flamer and a decent melee weapon, plus the Zealot rule. 3 wounds makes her squishy even with her 5+ FnP, but for 25 points could be worth it as a brigade filler or something.

She breakes Order trait bonus.

Ahh, good catch. I thought MINISTORUM units did not break it, but it turns out it's only if it's one of the units from a list.

 lash92 wrote:
So for all you guys running Valerous Heart Brigades:
How do you run your BSS? Just 6x5 girls barebones?

I´m pretty tempted to rock 2 SBs each tbh to have them actually do something when shooting.

Never run barebones squads. The 4pts per unit for stormbolters gets more valuable for that incredibly small investment than just about anything else you could spend 4 points on.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 lash92 wrote:
So for all you guys running Valerous Heart Brigades:
How do you run your BSS? Just 6x5 girls barebones?

I´m pretty tempted to rock 2 SBs each tbh to have them actually do something when shooting.

2 SB is really cheap (just 24 points for 6 squads to have them), so that's probably worth doing. I did that in my one test game with the new 'dex, and it worked okay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lammia wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Pauly wrote:
What are people opinions on Thaddeus the purifier? Is he worth the extra 12 points over the misssionary?

Compared to the Missionary, he gains a power maul instead of a chainsword and has the servo stubber instead of an autogun (so small increase in combat power). He loses the ability that prevents models from fleeing. So no, he's definitely not worth it for 50 points.

On a related note, it might be entertaining to bring Pious Vorne instead. She's a character with a heavy flamer and a decent melee weapon, plus the Zealot rule. 3 wounds makes her squishy even with her 5+ FnP, but for 25 points could be worth it as a brigade filler or something.

She breakes Order trait bonus.

Ahh, good catch. I thought MINISTORUM units did not break it, but it turns out it's only if it's one of the units from a list.

I just picked up BSF for $50, so I'm probably going to use 'ol Thad as my missionary, since Beefy Jacobus has been retired.

 lash92 wrote:
So for all you guys running Valerous Heart Brigades:
How do you run your BSS? Just 6x5 girls barebones?

I´m pretty tempted to rock 2 SBs each tbh to have them actually do something when shooting.

Always atleast two SBs.

Me, despite my thoughts earlier in the thread im considering slapping combi plas on the superior. I've got a brigade to 1900 points, but I'm having a hard time finding a better way, with my current lineup, of spending 66.

Its basicly that and some other filling options or two mortified, but I hate that they dont get order bonuses.

Another squad? Squads are useful enough even if you have minimums. Or 6 celestians with 2 stormbolters

Can the Geminae take relics since they are characters?

Mavnas wrote:
Can the Geminae take relics since they are characters?

Nope

I will have to try the Geminae at a certain point. They may suck stat wise, but there is merit in a fast character that costs 20 points, just to be a road bump which awards a miracle dice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
I'm assembling my sisters, and i'm not fond of the repentia heads.

I would like something less grim, possibily with really long hairs like banshees and wytches, but i cannot find suitable bits, even in 3rd party.

Someone has any good idea for a repentia head swap?

Long hair is always tough because you often have to model it around the model, so basically the hair has to go up. Daughters of khaine are good, but I think you'd need to do something with the crowns to make them repentia-y. Maybe paint them a dull, rusty iron with a little bit of blood dripping down the brows and onto the faces, implying that they're some kind of penitent torture device?

The problem with that is that i'm not using repentia heads specifically because i don't like the penitent look that much. A bit is fine, but the heads really go overboard for me, i was looking at a more berserk look for the heads. If as you correctly highlight, doing it with long hard may be quite difficult, i can do it with mid/short haired heads. Problem is that GW model range is quite scarce on female heads, so i was looking at 3rd party bits, but even there i can't find much.

Spoletta wrote:
I will have to try the Geminae at a certain point. They may suck stat wise, but there is merit in a fast character that costs 20 points, just to be a road bump which awards a miracle dice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
I'm assembling my sisters, and i'm not fond of the repentia heads.

I would like something less grim, possibily with really long hairs like banshees and wytches, but i cannot find suitable bits, even in 3rd party.

Someone has any good idea for a repentia head swap?

Long hair is always tough because you often have to model it around the model, so basically the hair has to go up. Daughters of khaine are good, but I think you'd need to do something with the crowns to make them repentia-y. Maybe paint them a dull, rusty iron with a little bit of blood dripping down the brows and onto the faces, implying that they're some kind of penitent torture device?

The Raging Heroes brand has produced mock Sisters of Battle a year or two ago. They have their own mock Repentia, maybe you can check their heads see if it's something you would be interested in.
The problem with that is that i'm not using repentia heads specifically because i don't like the penitent look that much. A bit is fine, but the heads really go overboard for me, i was looking at a more berserk look for the heads. If as you correctly highlight, doing it with long hard may be quite difficult, i can do it with mid/short haired heads. Problem is that GW model range is quite scarce on female heads, so i was looking at 3rd party bits, but even there i can't find much.