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I'd go with the most recent printing with the field manual. As much as I'd like to run 6 mortifiers.
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
Oberron wrote: I'd go with the most recent printing with the field manual. As much as I'd like to run 6 mortifiers.
except is the field manual the most recent printing, given the codex is offically relasing next weekend?
It certainly is a mess, eh? As of today, I'd say yes. The codex released last year, albeit limited. You might have an argument to allow it in two weeks, but not today. If we were in a match tomorrow and I asked to see proof, you'd be unable to show me anything more recent than the field manual.
The data sheet also only refers to power level, and I think that distinction is important. If I were anybody here, I would not try and pull a fast one by saying a power level related reference has bearing on matched play games with points. Refer to the points list instead, where we have a more recent publication available, as we do every single game anyway.
But ultimately it is a grey area, and in WAAC circles be prepared to argue your position to the TO if you really want to bring units of six. You're risking a WYSIWYG counter argument muddying the whole thing considering the kit isn't out yet. If your list is built around trying to maximize this confusion, you could be left hanging should the TO rule against you. And if you've ever played in a tournament before, then you well know that you shouldn't be arguing after a decision is made, and losing those illegal squads would mean you're starting ever match handicapped.
There's ultimately nothing concrete stopping anybody from running 6, but there's a ton of good arguments supporting a case not to.
Firstly, the hotly pressed question: I'm painting my girls Gold, washed with Seraphim Sepia, cream inner and purple outer vestments with details in white. Guns will be Leasbelcher with black cases. Base will be Martian red, to brighten, like how the Forge world Custodes bases are.
So. I have the box set, but I'm struggling to think of what to add to it. I don't want to limit myself to a particular order (hence the custom scheme) but I want to at least have a chance of winning. My playgroup is pretty chill, but I do go to tournaments so having a strong base to begin with is preferable.
40k: Thousand Sons World Eaters
30k: Imperial Fists 405th Company
Well lot depends on what time schedule you need. ATM looks like if you are in a hurry infantry based force is best way to go as there's no word on when vehicles starts to roll on...
But can't really go wrong with basic sisters and retributions. I figure either brigade or 2 battalions will be essentially mandatory due to CP so you need at least 30 basic sisters=3 boxes minus how many you can use from your start set so if all 2 boxes. Then unless you have 3 exorcist for AT(and maybe even if you do) you want retribution squad with multi meltas to punch some armour. 2 per box=2 boxes. However if you have just 5 retribution with multi meltax4 you need some spare bodies...So unless you use the other box to make bolter retributions rather than more heavy weapon girls you need another box for extra bodies.
So assuming you want to use the basic squad from box set models in full 3 basic boxes and 2 retribution boxes will be good start.
Once they come out canoness or two will be useful and imagifier or two especially if you can see yourself using valorous heart for that sweet -2 AP=0 bubbles.
2+/6++ ignoring -2 will require quite a bit of firepower for enemy to gun through(particularly because they need to use non-LOS ignoring weapons. With 42" threat range and no penalty for moving there's no excuse for them to be sitting in visible). Especially when there's 6 bodies before they get to the multi meltas. 4 gives nice CP efficiency. The extra range CP is pretty inefficient for 2 CP with just 1 MM. 2 MM don't even really scare much. 2.72 wounds vs leman russ isn't something to write home about. Even with cherub's that's not even degraded leman russ.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/10 12:21:12
Spoletta wrote: I'm going to build my retri with only 2 MM, so with 2 cherubs they can still alpha strike at 4 shots, but they cost much less.
I don't hold any hope in a squad of 4 MM to make it past turn 1, and i would like to make target priority less obvious.
I've played a couple of games with VH Rets (10 Rets, 4 MM, 1 Simulacrum, 2 cherubs), and try to keep them in cover over the first few turns with the -2 AP ignoring bubble... I also keep them on a 4++ over the first couple turns as well if I fear things like plasma or las (real easy to identify the threats in your opponent's army). 2+, 4++, 6+++ ignoring -2 AP, and a Hospitaller to help pick up the bodies makes it a REALLY solid block that takes A LOT of punishment to significantly damage. There's a lot of support in there, too, so that drives up the cost as well: Celestine, Imagifier with Indomitable Belief + Tale of the Stoic, Hospitaller, more reliance on Storm of Retribution to get the +12" range to keep stationary longer. It just ends up being one of those things you build the army around, because they will do a ton of work over the course of the game.
On another note, I also want to field a second squad of Rets with 2 MM, 1 Simulacrum, and 2 Cherubs (comes in just over 100 points) just to have a smaller squad that is less reliant on being protected, but can still spike damage nicely with 4 MM shots early on. Best part is, it can be protected in the same way as the larger one is, making it a nice early game support squad that should be hard to break as well.
Currently, my order is in white armor with blue vestments. Gold trim. And grey knight steel on the weapons... I thought it would be poetic to return the favor.
Dr. Mills wrote: Firstly, the hotly pressed question: I'm painting my girls Gold, washed with Seraphim Sepia, cream inner and purple outer vestments with details in white. Guns will be Leasbelcher with black cases. Base will be Martian red, to brighten, like how the Forge world Custodes bases are.
So. I have the box set, but I'm struggling to think of what to add to it. I don't want to limit myself to a particular order (hence the custom scheme) but I want to at least have a chance of winning. My playgroup is pretty chill, but I do go to tournaments so having a strong base to begin with is preferable.
Well it depends a lot on the Conviction you want. CERTAIN units are much better within certain convictions. OBVIOUS shining stars are the Sisters Repentia (Bloody Rose) and as always the Exorcists (which I would argue for Valorous Heart or Ebon Chalice).
If you are going to go Flight of the Valkyries, then it will be different.
In my humble opinion, the beginner set is strong. With it, you should be well on your way to a Bloody Rose themed force if you get two boxed sets and sell the codex. It sort of is tailor made for that. All kinda of in your face there.
In the LONG run though, I see Valorous Heart being the odds on favorite overall. The meta is so deadly to t3 models that you really must accord that fact some respect and give yourself a fighting chance against the artillery and first turn charge capabilities of the meta leading armies. Raven Guard and Blood Angels are ultra in-your-face, and Thunderfire Cannons are the soup d'jour, sometimes even backed with Whirlwinds, forcing you out of your hidey holes and into the great wide open. What can one convent do against such Dakka, especially given the Devastator Doctrine.
Well, the Valorous Heart can handle it better.
The alternative strategy is to accept this and to have speed for days to get to those artillery and shut them up while maintaining na entirely terrifying counter-charge ability. Bloody Rose will let you do this. In this mode of thought your deployment zone is nothing more than a red herring to draw such enemies into their dooms. Let them have their fun for one round, munching on a 15 Sister Squad. Then you wreck them with Arco Flagellents and Repentia for their troubles while their artillery/Snipers are silenced the rest of the game by melta pistols and more melta pistols and so on.
Either one sounds like fun to me.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
I'm about to start a SOB army, was thinking in this brigade:
- celestine, canoness, katharine,
- 5x6 sisters (2 SB each)
- Dialogus, Imagifier, Hospitaller
- 5x3 Dominion with meltas (not sure about this, super expensive).
- Exorcist and mortifiers
- Any rhino
What do you think about this? I know katherine is not the best HQ, but I really like his model and I'm gonna play him cuz of that, but not sure about those dominions, melta do not seems as good as I though, is too expensive
Kebabcito wrote: I'm about to start a SOB army, was thinking in this brigade:
- celestine, canoness, katharine,
- 5x6 sisters (2 SB each)
- Dialogus, Imagifier, Hospitaller
- 5x3 Dominion with meltas (not sure about this, super expensive).
- Exorcist and mortifiers
- Any rhino
What do you think about this? I know katherine is not the best HQ, but I really like his model and I'm gonna play him cuz of that, but not sure about those dominions, melta do not seems as good as I though, is too expensive
Put 4 of those Storm Bolters into a single Dominion Squad. Put their meltas in Sisters Squads.
Add Hunter Killer missile if you haven't. Always worth it. Always. Range is an issue and you'll need all the range you can get early on.
Mortifiers look terrifying. I am not sure yet as to their viability, but if you DO take them, take 6. It will allow your entire army to advance turn one while the enemy spends its energy trying to kill them and rightly so.
Have fun.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote: argent shroud is also a pretty good one at getting your infantry in close to the enemy fast.
Definitely. I've been using a Detachment of them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/10 19:31:24
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Kebabcito wrote: I'm about to start a SOB army, was thinking in this brigade:
- celestine, canoness, katharine,
- 5x6 sisters (2 SB each)
- Dialogus, Imagifier, Hospitaller
- 5x3 Dominion with meltas (not sure about this, super expensive).
- Exorcist and mortifiers
- Any rhino
What do you think about this? I know katherine is not the best HQ, but I really like his model and I'm gonna play him cuz of that, but not sure about those dominions, melta do not seems as good as I though, is too expensive
Put 4 of those Storm Bolters into a single Dominion Squad. Put their meltas in Sisters Squads.
Add Hunter Killer missile if you haven't. Always worth it. Always. Range is an issue and you'll need all the range you can get early on.
Mortifiers look terrifying. I am not sure yet as to their viability, but if you DO take them, take 6. It will allow your entire army to advance turn one while the enemy spends its energy trying to kill them and rightly so.
Have fun.
I'm curious as to your reasonong for the 4 stormbolters in dominions and the melta's in the sister squads, given dominions ability to move up the board early wou;dn't they be ideal for melta?
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Kebabcito wrote: I'm about to start a SOB army, was thinking in this brigade:
- celestine, canoness, katharine,
- 5x6 sisters (2 SB each)
- Dialogus, Imagifier, Hospitaller
- 5x3 Dominion with meltas (not sure about this, super expensive).
- Exorcist and mortifiers
- Any rhino
What do you think about this? I know katherine is not the best HQ, but I really like his model and I'm gonna play him cuz of that, but not sure about those dominions, melta do not seems as good as I though, is too expensive
Put 4 of those Storm Bolters into a single Dominion Squad. Put their meltas in Sisters Squads.
Add Hunter Killer missile if you haven't. Always worth it. Always. Range is an issue and you'll need all the range you can get early on.
Mortifiers look terrifying. I am not sure yet as to their viability, but if you DO take them, take 6. It will allow your entire army to advance turn one while the enemy spends its energy trying to kill them and rightly so.
Have fun.
I'm curious as to your reasonong for the 4 stormbolters in dominions and the melta's in the sister squads, given dominions ability to move up the board early wou;dn't they be ideal for melta?
Yes but their Storm Bolter Stratategem makes having one of them an EXTREMELY economical damage dealer.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Kebabcito wrote: I'm about to start a SOB army, was thinking in this brigade:
- celestine, canoness, katharine,
- 5x6 sisters (2 SB each)
- Dialogus, Imagifier, Hospitaller
- 5x3 Dominion with meltas (not sure about this, super expensive).
- Exorcist and mortifiers
- Any rhino
What do you think about this? I know katherine is not the best HQ, but I really like his model and I'm gonna play him cuz of that, but not sure about those dominions, melta do not seems as good as I though, is too expensive
Put 4 of those Storm Bolters into a single Dominion Squad. Put their meltas in Sisters Squads.
Add Hunter Killer missile if you haven't. Always worth it. Always. Range is an issue and you'll need all the range you can get early on.
Mortifiers look terrifying. I am not sure yet as to their viability, but if you DO take them, take 6. It will allow your entire army to advance turn one while the enemy spends its energy trying to kill them and rightly so.
Have fun.
I'm curious as to your reasonong for the 4 stormbolters in dominions and the melta's in the sister squads, given dominions ability to move up the board early wou;dn't they be ideal for melta?
Yes but their Storm Bolter Stratategem makes having one of them an EXTREMELY economical damage dealer.
I understand your logic, maximizing the SB strategem with dominions, i'll check it, thanks for tips.
This army seems very strong to me, with the 3+/4++/6+++, ignoring -2, you can also go full psychic denying, I think it'll be strong.
I understand your logic, maximizing the SB strategem with dominions, i'll check it, thanks for tips.
This army seems very strong to me, with the 3+/4++/6+++, ignoring -2, you can also go full psychic denying, I think it'll be strong.
In the right hands, yes. I see some cool ideas being floated here and there in this thread. I am having success thus far. i haven't lost, which is all you can ask for while testing new ideas.
Got another game this afternoon, and hope to keep the streak intact. My opponent has a fairly good record, but he fears my Sisters. He hasn't ever beaten them (specifically) before and we've played since forever. He's gotten me before but not with Sisters. He's hoping to start the count over again with the new Dex! I on the other hand, disagree.
I will let you know how it goes. I am utilizing the Storm Bolter unit in my force though.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
So I'm poking at lists for a league. Not really settled on anything cause I don't have a lot of the new models for testing like mortifiers and Katherine and such but I came up with this and I'm worried its a bit harsh for a semi-friendly league. Opinions? Basically I've been finding Sisters heavy on CP so I wanted to maximise the amount I had and I find Ebon Chalice fun for the mind-games.
Edit: Noticed I have two squads of 7 sisters. Cut those down to 5 sisters and remove the hunter killer from the exorcist and replace them with a Diologus.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/11 00:13:41
So, I don't hear many people talking about taking Sisters as part of an Imperial soup army very much. Yes, running pure gives you access to Sacred Rites, but IMHO most of those are situationally useful at best, unless I'm really missing something. I had come up with an idea of taking a Knight, a Battalion of Astra Militarum, and then a Battalion of Sisters with like 3 Exorcists (or maybe 3 Repressors full of MM Retributors instead). The AM detachment should probably have a Punisher TC for horde clearing duty, as the Knight and Exorcists should be able to handle the big stuff pretty well (lots of T8 should help with screwing your opponent's target priority).
What are other people's thoughts on Sisters as a soup ingredient?
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
Mr_Rose wrote: Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
ZergSmasher wrote: So, I don't hear many people talking about taking Sisters as part of an Imperial soup army very much. Yes, running pure gives you access to Sacred Rites, but IMHO most of those are situationally useful at best, unless I'm really missing something. I had come up with an idea of taking a Knight, a Battalion of Astra Militarum, and then a Battalion of Sisters with like 3 Exorcists (or maybe 3 Repressors full of MM Retributors instead). The AM detachment should probably have a Punisher TC for horde clearing duty, as the Knight and Exorcists should be able to handle the big stuff pretty well (lots of T8 should help with screwing your opponent's target priority).
What are other people's thoughts on Sisters as a soup ingredient?
I used to always run Sisters as soup with IG or AdMech but the improved exorcist and rets basically fixed up Sisters main weakness IMO.
ZergSmasher wrote: So, I don't hear many people talking about taking Sisters as part of an Imperial soup army very much. Yes, running pure gives you access to Sacred Rites, but IMHO most of those are situationally useful at best, unless I'm really missing something. I had come up with an idea of taking a Knight, a Battalion of Astra Militarum, and then a Battalion of Sisters with like 3 Exorcists (or maybe 3 Repressors full of MM Retributors instead). The AM detachment should probably have a Punisher TC for horde clearing duty, as the Knight and Exorcists should be able to handle the big stuff pretty well (lots of T8 should help with screwing your opponent's target priority).
What are other people's thoughts on Sisters as a soup ingredient?
Sisters are a solid soup ingredient if you know what exactly you want out of it. Exorcists biggest problem atm is probably that there's no debate about what your opponent's big guns target and that's generally worth. Sacred Rites are nice to have, but you take them because you're are Sisters player and you want to play Sisters. They aren't meta defining.
ZergSmasher wrote: So, I don't hear many people talking about taking Sisters as part of an Imperial soup army very much. Yes, running pure gives you access to Sacred Rites, but IMHO most of those are situationally useful at best, unless I'm really missing something. I had come up with an idea of taking a Knight, a Battalion of Astra Militarum, and then a Battalion of Sisters with like 3 Exorcists (or maybe 3 Repressors full of MM Retributors instead). The AM detachment should probably have a Punisher TC for horde clearing duty, as the Knight and Exorcists should be able to handle the big stuff pretty well (lots of T8 should help with screwing your opponent's target priority).
What are other people's thoughts on Sisters as a soup ingredient?
I used to always run Sisters as soup with IG or AdMech but the improved exorcist and rets basically fixed up Sisters main weakness IMO.
yeah I think part of the reason you're not seeing much sisters soup is... they don't partiuclarly need it, they're cheap eneugh that command points won't be a problem, but at the same time they don't really need an injection of elites eaither, as they can do most of the things general marine units can,
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
ZergSmasher wrote: So, I don't hear many people talking about taking Sisters as part of an Imperial soup army very much. Yes, running pure gives you access to Sacred Rites, but IMHO most of those are situationally useful at best, unless I'm really missing somethingt?
Sacred Rites are pretty key in my experience. Especially in stopping Psykers and getting miracle dice for it. Then you can roll for it if no psykers or you can specify it for Bloody rose...and so on. Its pretty great.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oberron wrote: I'd go with the most recent printing with the field manual. As much as I'd like to run 6 mortifiers.
Clearly the datasheet always takes precedence. Points are just points.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/11 06:42:03
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Oberron wrote: I'd go with the most recent printing with the field manual. As much as I'd like to run 6 mortifiers.
Clearly the datasheet always takes precedence. Points are just points.
Is it really all that clear? Matched play points is the only source of truth for matched play list building, not the section in the data sheet that details power levels.
I would not think it's worth building your game plan on this, lest you risk having it disallowed either by GW or a TO. Friendly matches at your local store? Yeah, feel free to run 6 if you want, there's a built in mechanism in those games for people to resolve the argument after all. But I can almost guarantee you'll run into TOs who will side with the Field Manual as largely the premier guide for both points costs and unit sizes. I don't think you'll have much issue with it, but I would still ask before you commit too heavily, as with anything that isn't consistently represented it may come back to bite you.
I'm really liking the new rules and points. I'm considering a very basic mechanized sisters list, and I'm surprised with howm uch I can fit in to 2000 points.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/11 23:09:39
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Thousand Sons 
Imperial Fists 405th Company 
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~15000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: 
~2000 | Sisters of Battle: 
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