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I finally moved past my problem of selecting between Penitent Engines and Mortifiers.

Initially you think that mortifiers are much better, but then you analyze the fact that they are there only to be thrown at the enemy turn 1 and take pressure away from my sisters (bloody rose, they don't like to get shot). For that a Penitent Engine is better, since it is harder to take down and is a bit cheaper than the heavy flamer version of the mortifiers. At the same time though a mortifier has 2 inch extra speed, which makes it more likely to charge turn 2.


In the end I'm going to play 2 mortifiers and 3 engines, all of them running straight at the enemy!

Spoletta wrote:
I finally moved past my problem of selecting between Penitent Engines and Mortifiers.

Initially you think that mortifiers are much better, but then you analyze the fact that they are there only to be thrown at the enemy turn 1 and take pressure away from my sisters (bloody rose, they don't like to get shot). For that a Penitent Engine is better, since it is harder to take down and is a bit cheaper than the heavy flamer version of the mortifiers. At the same time though a mortifier has 2 inch extra speed, which makes it more likely to charge turn 2.


In the end I'm going to play 2 mortifiers and 3 engines, all of them running straight at the enemy!

For me they are not there to rush toward enemy. That leaves them easy to be picked up by AT weapons. For me they are to deal with enemy units that charge into your units, quite possibly 3-pointing.

tneva82 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
I finally moved past my problem of selecting between Penitent Engines and Mortifiers.

Initially you think that mortifiers are much better, but then you analyze the fact that they are there only to be thrown at the enemy turn 1 and take pressure away from my sisters (bloody rose, they don't like to get shot). For that a Penitent Engine is better, since it is harder to take down and is a bit cheaper than the heavy flamer version of the mortifiers. At the same time though a mortifier has 2 inch extra speed, which makes it more likely to charge turn 2.


In the end I'm going to play 2 mortifiers and 3 engines, all of them running straight at the enemy!

For me they are not there to rush toward enemy. That leaves them easy to be picked up by AT weapons. For me they are to deal with enemy units that charge into your units, quite possibly 3-pointing.

AT fire not going at my Exos is AT fire I'm happy to take...

Lammia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
I finally moved past my problem of selecting between Penitent Engines and Mortifiers.

Initially you think that mortifiers are much better, but then you analyze the fact that they are there only to be thrown at the enemy turn 1 and take pressure away from my sisters (bloody rose, they don't like to get shot). For that a Penitent Engine is better, since it is harder to take down and is a bit cheaper than the heavy flamer version of the mortifiers. At the same time though a mortifier has 2 inch extra speed, which makes it more likely to charge turn 2.


In the end I'm going to play 2 mortifiers and 3 engines, all of them running straight at the enemy!

For me they are not there to rush toward enemy. That leaves them easy to be picked up by AT weapons. For me they are to deal with enemy units that charge into your units, quite possibly 3-pointing.

AT fire not going at my Exos is AT fire I'm happy to take...

This. Morti's and Penitents are great distraction carnifexes.

Lammia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
I finally moved past my problem of selecting between Penitent Engines and Mortifiers.

Initially you think that mortifiers are much better, but then you analyze the fact that they are there only to be thrown at the enemy turn 1 and take pressure away from my sisters (bloody rose, they don't like to get shot). For that a Penitent Engine is better, since it is harder to take down and is a bit cheaper than the heavy flamer version of the mortifiers. At the same time though a mortifier has 2 inch extra speed, which makes it more likely to charge turn 2.


In the end I'm going to play 2 mortifiers and 3 engines, all of them running straight at the enemy!

For me they are not there to rush toward enemy. That leaves them easy to be picked up by AT weapons. For me they are to deal with enemy units that charge into your units, quite possibly 3-pointing.

AT fire not going at my Exos is AT fire I'm happy to take...

At fire here being s5-s7 -1/-2 dam2/d3 type of high rof weapons

If a leviathan dreadnaught wants to shoot death a couple of penitent engines, that's a win in my book. Better 2 engines than 2 squads of sisters (i don't use exos).

Spoletta wrote:
(i don't use exos)

Well there's your first mistake.

Exos are a trap choice if you don't play VH, and i'm one with Bloody Rose.

Spoletta wrote:
Exos are a trap choice if you don't play VH, and i'm one with Bloody Rose.

What makes them a trap choice and how does vh fix it? Best long range AT that sisters have.


On another note stormbolters + blessed bolts+ the passion (or is it divine gudiance? ) sacred rite is nasty going from s4 ap0 d1 to s4 ap-2/-3 d2.

I'm thinking of doing heavy bolted ret squad with that rite just for a bunch of possible ap-2

I can't explain what makes them a trap, unless it's the cost vs what they do, but VH fixes it by ignoring AP -1, and by ignoring AP -2 by talking an Imagifier

Too many points in an easy opened package, i don't like them. You may inflict some damage, but if you don't go first you may find yourself short on a lot of points really fast.

With VH you can protect them, and that's about the only case where i would play them.

Spoletta wrote:
Too many points in an easy opened package, i don't like them. You may inflict some damage, but if you don't go first you may find yourself short on a lot of points really fast.

With VH you can protect them, and that's about the only case where i would play them.

Pretty sure you're in a minority. My Exo's are giving everyone in my group a massive headache, especially playing Ebon Chalice where I can make 6+ saves whenever I need to.

Taikishi wrote:
I can't explain what makes them a trap, unless it's the cost vs what they do, but VH fixes it by ignoring AP -1, and by ignoring AP -2 by talking an Imagifier

Every sisters army should be ignoring AP-1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sim-Life wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Too many points in an easy opened package, i don't like them. You may inflict some damage, but if you don't go first you may find yourself short on a lot of points really fast.

With VH you can protect them, and that's about the only case where i would play them.

Pretty sure you're in a minority. My Exo's are giving everyone in my group a massive headache, especially playing Ebon Chalice where I can make 6+ saves whenever I need to.

Had both of my exos get put on their last bracket by repulsor shooting turn one, only to turn around and zap fry the repulsor executionor in return and survive to chunk out a regular repulsor.

3d3 with miracle dice means that even at 5+ to hit, they're still incredibly dangerous.

Spoletta wrote:
Too many points in an easy opened package, i don't like them. You may inflict some damage, but if you don't go first you may find yourself short on a lot of points really fast.

With VH you can protect them, and that's about the only case where i would play them.

Not many out of los gun threatens exorcist and they have range and speed so you don't have to deploy at front in open if you go second


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sim-Life wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Too many points in an easy opened package, i don't like them. You may inflict some damage, but if you don't go first you may find yourself short on a lot of points really fast.

With VH you can protect them, and that's about the only case where i would play them.

Pretty sure you're in a minority. My Exo's are giving everyone in my group a massive headache, especially playing Ebon Chalice where I can make 6+ saves whenever I need to.

Well once for one vehicle anyway

tneva82 wrote:

Pretty sure you're in a minority. My Exo's are giving everyone in my group a massive headache, especially playing Ebon Chalice where I can make 6+ saves whenever I need to.

Well once for one vehicle anyway

Thats all you need sometimes. There's also Moment Of Grace. The more shots you force your opponent to waste the better and the fewer shots they have for other Exos. And like ERJACK said even on their last bracket Exorcists only need one or two hits to get through to mess something up.

Dipping my toes back for Sisters after over a year and with the advent of the new Codex.

I love my Repressors and good to see they didn’t put them in the dustbin yet. I see they don’t benefit from Acts of Faith / Sacred Rites but they do get Shield of Faith and benefit from <Order> convictions.

I do have a question which maybe I need to ask in YMDC, but I’ll ask here first:
Repressors now use the “open topped” rule for shooters within and cannot be affected by auras, but can innate abilities like the Divine Guidance Rite still be used? Also, for my MM Rets, could they use Armor Cherubs to get those extra shots?

Exos price point is in the range of Russ/Command Russ with few, more average shots, d6 damage and a 6++ save. I don't know we'll get them cheaper.

Did a trial game proxying some guardsmen for sisters since my nephew has more than enough guardsmen to spare and I don't have any of my old sisters minis aside from a squad of retributors and a canoness converted from a sister superior. I'm really enjoying Bloody Rose.

Lammia wrote:
Exos price point is in the range of Russ/Command Russ with few, more average shots, d6 damage and a 6++ save. I don't know we'll get them cheaper.

And a heavy bolter. A lot of people seem to forget it but it's something.

Also with vh even vehicles get a 6+++ fnp. It does make them hard to Crack but still not a trap when taken in other orders.

Yeah, definitely don't get your heavy bolter. You're paying for it after all.

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, definitely don't get your heavy bolter. You're paying for it after all.

Playing with the old models was a nightmare at the start but I'm beginning to remember them now, generally because it might plink a few more infantry off the board.

Been playing an escalation league and I gotta say even with a repentance superior giving them a 5++ for a cp they still fall apart but a rhino she'll really helps them get in combat. Also running a single mortifier since that is all I have at the moment and it really does some work shooting and once it gets into combat I feel that unless you're playing bloody Rose or taking three Exorcist to run the same point amount of mortifiers than to run repentia + rhino

Oberron wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Exos price point is in the range of Russ/Command Russ with few, more average shots, d6 damage and a 6++ save. I don't know we'll get them cheaper.

And a heavy bolter. A lot of people seem to forget it but it's something.

Also with vh even vehicles get a 6+++ fnp. It does make them hard to Crack but still not a trap when taken in other orders.

Russ have to take a heavy bolter or lascanon too, so the likeness is just closer

I know people keep saying "do five girl squads with all of the special weapons for your mechanized sisters", but I feel like that's incredibly fragile of a force even by Sisters standards... been working on my list based on peoples' feedback, but not liking how it's turning out so far based on the recommendation of using five-member battle sister squads.

 Melissia wrote:
I know people keep saying "do five girl squads with all of the special weapons for your mechanized sisters", but I feel like that's incredibly fragile of a force even by Sisters standards... been working on my list based on peoples' feedback, but not liking how it's turning out so far based on the recommendation of using five-member battle sister squads.

if you like the 10 sister squad go for it. maybe you've figured something others haven't. problem with a MSU 5 man sisters squad is you don't really have ANY ablative wounds.

you've got 1 sister superior, 2 special weapons sisters, a simiclium sister and a single regular sister. that's not a lot of loses before you start taking your valuable support options.

You have twice as many special weapons. Even after losing 1 you have more. When you lose 2 you are in same spot except morale is less issue and opponent could have wasted overkil' at which point you are in better shape as you have 5 sisters vs 2-3 10 strong squad would have.

10 is the softer target. You don"' take 10 for survability as you make yourself softer. You take 10 to maximize 1 unit targeting buffs.

 Melissia wrote:
I know people keep saying "do five girl squads with all of the special weapons for your mechanized sisters", but I feel like that's incredibly fragile of a force even by Sisters standards... been working on my list based on peoples' feedback, but not liking how it's turning out so far based on the recommendation of using five-member battle sister squads.

Sisters are funny because you really need to use them to get a feel for them. Of all the armies I play they're the hardest to get a feel for in list building. All the auras and such combine in such a way that isn't well represented just by looking at a list.

tneva82 wrote:
You have twice as many special weapons.

And you pay for it. Each lost wound is worth more points that way, meaning your enemy's rewarded for each kill far more than if you had ten sisters per squad. Sisters aren't Space Marines. They're more fragile, with their T3, even with the other things they have. As someone who plays both Marines and Sisters, that T4 makes a HUGE difference.

 Melissia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
You have twice as many special weapons.

And you pay for it. Each lost wound is worth more points that way, meaning your enemy's rewarded for each kill far more than if you had ten sisters per squad. Sisters aren't Space Marines. They're more fragile, with their T3, even with the other things they have. As someone who plays both Marines and Sisters, that T4 makes a HUGE difference.

Given that the points paid for a storm bolter is less than what I pay when I'm sticking upgrades on my tanks to make up those last 15pts or so I don't think its that big an issue.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
You have twice as many special weapons.

And you pay for it. Each lost wound is worth more points that way, meaning your enemy's rewarded for each kill far more than if you had ten sisters per squad. Sisters aren't Space Marines. They're more fragile, with their T3, even with the other things they have. As someone who plays both Marines and Sisters, that T4 makes a HUGE difference.

Given that the points paid for a storm bolter is less than what I pay when I'm sticking upgrades on my tanks to make up those last 15pts or so I don't think its that big an issue.

Storm bolters sure, but you see plenty of meltas and particularly combi-meltas around.

I agree that 2x storm bolters and nothing else is the way to go for 5 women squads, but anything more expensive (except maybe a single combi-melta on the superior, so you still got 4 meat-shields before she goes down) I'd definitely go for additional bodies, even for non-SB Dominion or Retributor squads (unless you stick them into a transport and run into capacity issues otherwise).

I'm just copy what I wrote on the subject in another thread:

Having 3 meltas in a squad of 5 seems like an easy way to bleed points when the other player only has to kill 2 bodies before he gets to kill squishy 23 and 24 point models.
Sure, at first glance "not losing models to morale" sounds pretty good, until you realize you are achieving that by getting your special weapons that cost at least two and half times as many points per model killed instead and having the squad wiped.
Well, unless you put them into a Rhino, but then you might as well take Celestians, Dominions or particularly Seraphim instead who give you more bang for your investment.

As far as Battle Sisters Squads with Melta are concerned, I'd either go with a single melta and a storm bolter in a squad of 5 or 2 melta+ combi and 4-5 extra bodies. Thanks to miracle dice, even having a single melta is a serious deterrent (you hit and wound? Insta 5 or 6 damage. Or you get charged by some monstrosity and you just use a miracle dice to get that 6 you need to hit during overwatch for some tasty damage), especially if they are spread throughout multiple squads. Or you go horde because Sisters have plenty of ways to minimize morale issues (a single missionary prevents 50% of all morale casualties AND hands out +1 Attack to the entire blob in addition to being dirt cheap and filling a HQ slot) and several Orders that favor that approach, have 2 melta + combi and 4-7 extra bodies to keep those special weapons worth 70 points alive and making a Simulacrum worthwhile (which in turn again makes the squad even more dangerous).

TL;DR: Sisters already have a high LD (you need to take 3+ losses before there is even a slim risk of losing another model), have a multitude of easy ways to buff LD or make morale losses a non-issue, which often also synergize really well with a horde playstyle (missionary giving +1A to all models in 6" AND halving all morale losses, in addition to being cheap and filling a HQ slot), with several orders also enouraging such a playstyle and bringing plenty of sisters infantry in bigger units along, such as Argent Shroud, Bloody Rose and Martyred Lady. Big units with meltas also enable better buffing and make them valuable miracle dice targets thanks to a simulacrum suddenly being worthwhile.

That's not to mention that having a chance to take a lot of morale-tests you cannot possibly fail (or have like a 8%/16% chance to lose one/two 9pt model(s)) is a valuable source to farm additional miracle dice every turn. And even if you lose like 7 models out of a 12 model unit in a single turn, you can easily use a low value miracle dice (especially a 1) to auto-pass, something other armies have to pay 2 CP for.

Thus the risk of morale losses is overrated for sisters as I'd argue , as has been shown with at least one tournament winning list having been posted here having 11-15 model sister squads.