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Xfrawg wrote:
So pretty much just canonness and superiors can be guarded . I still like having the +4 invuln to pretty much the whole army, So I will keep that in mind.

Dialogus, sister superior, IMAGIFIER.

I have picked up quite alot of models for my sister's army and not really sure what direction to go with it.

Models to choose from

SOB big box set...
4 boxes of BSS
2 boxes of retributors.

This is what I've painted so far.



I'm currently painting up repentia but I'm thinking of converting the repentia superior into another cannonness.

The basis of my list will be horde sisters as I have 50 infantry to plonk down at the start. I can't decide on squads with 2 SB or some with meltas or heavy bolter to sit on objectives.

Another difficult choice is how to arm the rets. Definitely want a squad with 4 Multi meltas for sure but the second squad I can't decide on 4 heavy flamers or 4 heavy bolters.

A rhino w flamer sisters can do work. Really strong work when you consider the way you can now protect them when they disembark bu forming a reticle with a couple rhinos. The range thing goes a long damn way with that unit. You can use them in Argent Shroud detachments to great effect as well.

 Grundz wrote:
you simply don't want to get sisters dug

Bloody Rose Celestians with an Imagifier and Canoness disagree with you.

Per five-member Celestian squad, that's 17 attacks at strength 4 on the charge, all failed to-hits re-rolled, all with AP-1. If hte Superior has a power axe or power maul instead of the chainsword, she practically ignores power armor and also has even higher strength, again with rerolled attacks.

That's PER five member Celestian squad. They rarely exceed 100 points each. Frankly, properly supported Celestians are better assault squads than most Marines!

Spoletta wrote:

 Grundz wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
What are we liking for Celestian loadout? Assume Bloody Rose, a Canoness and maybe, if the circumstances are right, their stratagem, plus the Imagifier for melee. Melta, melta, combimelta, simulacrum? Mix in a combi flamer or hand flamer? Inferno to blast someone in melee? Or just stormbolters on the cheap?

Also, if I have a simulacrum and two meltas, can I drop two MD sixes for Overwatch? That makes a dialogus a bit more compelling, if she could serve a bunch of squads with melta both in the Shooting phase and in Overwatch.

celestian loadouts: typically nothing or an inferno pistol, if the squad is naked a combi plasma is doable, a hand flamer in any squad with a meltagun to unlock holy trinity is nice.

you simply don't want to get sisters dug in so any close combat weapon you probably aren't going to get much mileage from, if I had a squad of celestians the captain may get a close combat weapon as they will be right up there with the canoness's eating shots, but regular squads? nah

a simulacrum lets that squad make an additional miracle every phase, so if they are the first miracle that phase, yes, you could use two, you should take that into account when building your squads, if you are taking a meltagun and a melta pistol, another meltagun is too many for you to miracle, so it may be better to stick it in another squad, if you are building miracle dice/banner heavy, you want to spread all those weapons out.

He is talking bloody rose.

Celestian bloody roses is something that your opponent will really really not want dug into HIS forces. Each of those girls headbuts 1,2 MEQs. If you give a sword to the superior, she alone gets 3 heads home. All of this just with an imagifier, don't even need the canoness. With a missionary, 10 celestians murder a 10 man intercessor squad (they kill 9 actually, but when your squad disappears like that due to an unhealthy amount of crazied girls, you tend to forget that you shouldn't know no fear).

Yep, this is what I was after. They're worth their points in melee alone, and I'm trying to maximize the investment in the shooting phase. I'm toying with melta, flamer, inferno, chainsword, and simulacrum. Yes, it drives up the cost of the unit, but with all those rerolls and buffs, I think it gives good versatility. Holy Trinity is solid against MEQs, and it's cheaper than Exceptional Proficiency. With a simulacrum, I have the option to double down on MDs when the target is right OR give the first MD to an Exorcist, the inferno let's me drop MDs in the shooting phase while in melee, and if I run two such squads, I can spread the MDs around to compensate for swapping in a flamer.

Spoletta wrote:


Celestian bloody roses is something that your opponent will really really not want dug into HIS forces. Each of those girls headbuts 1,2 MEQs. If you give a sword to the superior, she alone gets 3 heads home. All of this just with an imagifier, don't even need the canoness. With a missionary, 10 celestians murder a 10 man intercessor squad (they kill 9 actually, but when your squad disappears like that due to an unhealthy amount of crazied girls, you tend to forget that you shouldn't know no fear).

4 swings per celestian, 5 on the leader (bloody rose, +1str, missionary)
hitting on 3's, wounding on 4's ap-1, and +1 to wound stratagem
leader has a power sword

thats 9.66 wounds / 4.8 intercessors dead
what am I missing thats almost doubling their output?

 Melissia wrote:

 Grundz wrote:
you simply don't want to get sisters dug

Bloody Rose Celestians with an Imagifier and Canoness disagree with you.

Per five-member Celestian squad, that's 17 attacks at strength 4 on the charge, all failed to-hits re-rolled, all with AP-1. If hte Superior has a power axe or power maul instead of the chainsword, she practically ignores power armor and also has even higher strength, again with rerolled attacks.

That's PER five member Celestian squad. They rarely exceed 100 points each. Frankly, properly supported Celestians are better assault squads than most Marines!

The -1 AP stacks nicely with Divine Guidance, too. Assuming you've lined up within charge range, you can choose Rapid Fire for volume of dice, or Pistols to go fishing for 6s for -2 AP, and then use them the next round with survivors still engaged. I guess Exceptional Proficiency lets you REALLY go fishing for 6s, but it still doesn't seem worth it...

I am carious Simulacrum, says you can perform a extra faith for your sister unit that phase. So if you had one in all Normal sisters, celestian, dominion squads... would each of those squad get and extra one? If given that you had enough MD to do so?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
if that is the case, why would you never want one in there?

Xfrawg wrote:
I am carious Simulacrum, says you can perform a extra faith for your sister unit that phase. So if you had one in all Normal sisters, celestian, dominion squads... would each of those squad get and extra one? If given that you had enough MD to do so?

Yes. That's the whole point of it.

Xfrawg wrote:
I am carious Simulacrum, says you can perform a extra faith for your sister unit that phase. So if you had one in all Normal sisters, celestian, dominion squads... would each of those squad get and extra one? If given that you had enough MD to do so?

not quite, the text says they get one "extra" miracle per phase

so the first squad to use one, gets the normal act of faith, then also the "extra" one if they had a banner
all of the other squads with the simulacrum would only get the "extra" one

so you have to be a little careful with the order of operations

tneva82 wrote:

Xfrawg wrote:
I am carious Simulacrum, says you can perform a extra faith for your sister unit that phase. So if you had one in all Normal sisters, celestian, dominion squads... would each of those squad get and extra one? If given that you had enough MD to do so?

Yes. That's the whole point of it.

K, I tend to read things wrong, and always have to be corrected. If I don't do things over and over, I forget to do stuff. So learning or re learning armies is tough for me.

 Grundz wrote:

Xfrawg wrote:
I am carious Simulacrum, says you can perform a extra faith for your sister unit that phase. So if you had one in all Normal sisters, celestian, dominion squads... would each of those squad get and extra one? If given that you had enough MD to do so?

not quite, the text says they get one "extra" miracle per phase

so the first squad to use one, gets the normal act of faith, then also the "extra" one if they had a banner
all of the other squads with the simulacrum would only get the "extra" one

so you have to be a little careful with the order of operations

That I figured. It says,"If a model in this uit has a Simulacrum Imperialis then once per phase you can perform one Act of Faith for this unit, even if you have already performed one or more acts of faith in that phase." So if I performed it say on a Cannoness, can the rest with the bannor have perform one? That is nice, Though I doubt things like that won't happen till like turn 2 or 3.

 Grundz wrote:

Xfrawg wrote:
I am carious Simulacrum, says you can perform a extra faith for your sister unit that phase. So if you had one in all Normal sisters, celestian, dominion squads... would each of those squad get and extra one? If given that you had enough MD to do so?

not quite, the text says they get one "extra" miracle per phase

so the first squad to use one, gets the normal act of faith, then also the "extra" one if they had a banner
all of the other squads with the simulacrum would only get the "extra" one

so you have to be a little careful with the order of operations

In the Shooting phase, I usually go Exorcist first with the 1/phase default MD, or maybe a Character model with a useful gun in range, than scan around and see where a squad with a simulacrum could make good use another. Given the multiple rerolls and buffs, I now see how likely it is that a Celestian squad in a good position should steal that initial MD from the Exos and use the simulacrum to double up. I think I'm sold on simulacra over cherubs for the 5 point squad-level investment.

 MacPhail wrote:

 Grundz wrote:

Xfrawg wrote:
I am carious Simulacrum, says you can perform a extra faith for your sister unit that phase. So if you had one in all Normal sisters, celestian, dominion squads... would each of those squad get and extra one? If given that you had enough MD to do so?

not quite, the text says they get one "extra" miracle per phase

so the first squad to use one, gets the normal act of faith, then also the "extra" one if they had a banner
all of the other squads with the simulacrum would only get the "extra" one

so you have to be a little careful with the order of operations

In the Shooting phase, I usually go Exorcist first with the 1/phase default MD, or maybe a Character model with a useful gun in range, than scan around and see where a squad with a simulacrum could make good use another. Given the multiple rerolls and buffs, I now see how likely it is that a Celestian squad in a good position should steal that initial MD from the Exos and use the simulacrum to double up. I think I'm sold on simulacra over cherubs for the 5 point squad-level investment.

Unless you use PP then 5 points don't matter. Unless you are in a tourny, then yes. Do tournys use PP or just normal points?

It really depends on what you are up against. I see Exorcist good only against HQ and vehicles and open terrain boards. Where having good squad of Retributors or even Dominions that are only meltas would be great all around in any board set up. Transport in open areas with Immortal with twin meltas. Then in heavy city setting, which I love to fight in, then they can be sheltered easly.

Exorcist benefits in city terrain from higher speed though. 6" can struggle to reach position where they get LOS to enemy. So it's not all so exorcist for open terrain

Exorcist also nice against stuff like aggressors with T5 lots of wounds and where you would prefer >24" away since if they survive they will delete tons of stuff. Even VH retributors will melt quickly when those buggers shoot. Even in cover and they have to move(ultramarines don't care) still 4-5 dead. If you are out of cover you are dead.

 Grundz wrote:

Spoletta wrote:


Celestian bloody roses is something that your opponent will really really not want dug into HIS forces. Each of those girls headbuts 1,2 MEQs. If you give a sword to the superior, she alone gets 3 heads home. All of this just with an imagifier, don't even need the canoness. With a missionary, 10 celestians murder a 10 man intercessor squad (they kill 9 actually, but when your squad disappears like that due to an unhealthy amount of crazied girls, you tend to forget that you shouldn't know no fear).

4 swings per celestian, 5 on the leader (bloody rose, +1str, missionary)
hitting on 3's, wounding on 4's ap-1, and +1 to wound stratagem
leader has a power sword

thats 9.66 wounds / 4.8 intercessors dead
what am I missing thats almost doubling their output?

Celestians can reroll all hits and wounds.

4 attacks per girl at Rerollable 3s to hit and rerollable 3s to wound, with AP-1 multiplied by 9 girls are 14,4 wounds.
The superiors with 5 attacks at AP-4 adds 4 more wounds.

The total is slightly above 9 intercessors killed, 30 boyz/gaunts deleted, 11 wounds on a Leman Russ, a dead flyrant, a wiped squad of 9 shining spears, 10 wounds on a disco lord. There are few things in the game that want to be near that 104 point unit.

tneva82 wrote:
Exorcist benefits in city terrain from higher speed though. 6" can struggle to reach position where they get LOS to enemy. So it's not all so exorcist for open terrain

Exorcist also nice against stuff like aggressors with T5 lots of wounds and where you would prefer >24" away since if they survive they will delete tons of stuff. Even VH retributors will melt quickly when those buggers shoot. Even in cover and they have to move(ultramarines don't care) still 4-5 dead. If you are out of cover you are dead.

That is where immolator comes in for retrebutors. If you run Dominions squad, They get that extra boost the first round. Use that one to Advance, then normal movement second. That way you could the most move 18 if your roll for advance is good. so First round 12+, Where exoist can do the same. Just Dominion squad can go in and out cover easier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Then you would move 6" sure where exocist would continue 12" but at that point, you are far up enough. If you want do deal with aggressers too, use zephyrim's sky strike abilities to bog them down.

Xfrawg wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Exorcist benefits in city terrain from higher speed though. 6" can struggle to reach position where they get LOS to enemy. So it's not all so exorcist for open terrain

Exorcist also nice against stuff like aggressors with T5 lots of wounds and where you would prefer >24" away since if they survive they will delete tons of stuff. Even VH retributors will melt quickly when those buggers shoot. Even in cover and they have to move(ultramarines don't care) still 4-5 dead. If you are out of cover you are dead.

That is where immolator comes in for retrebutors. If you run Dominions squad, They get that extra boost the first round. Use that one to Advance, then normal movement second. That way you could the most move 18 if your roll for advance is good. so First round 12+, Where exoist can do the same. Just Dominion squad can go in and out cover easier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Then you would move 6" sure where exocist would continue 12" but at that point, you are far up enough. If you want do deal with aggressers too, use zephyrim's sky strike abilities to bog them down.

I'm not sure what you mean, but dominions no longer boost transports.

Also, i wouldn't assault aggressors with zephs if i didn't have an inquisitor to stop overwatch.

Spoletta wrote:

Xfrawg wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Exorcist benefits in city terrain from higher speed though. 6" can struggle to reach position where they get LOS to enemy. So it's not all so exorcist for open terrain

Exorcist also nice against stuff like aggressors with T5 lots of wounds and where you would prefer >24" away since if they survive they will delete tons of stuff. Even VH retributors will melt quickly when those buggers shoot. Even in cover and they have to move(ultramarines don't care) still 4-5 dead. If you are out of cover you are dead.

That is where immolator comes in for retrebutors. If you run Dominions squad, They get that extra boost the first round. Use that one to Advance, then normal movement second. That way you could the most move 18 if your roll for advance is good. so First round 12+, Where exoist can do the same. Just Dominion squad can go in and out cover easier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Then you would move 6" sure where exocist would continue 12" but at that point, you are far up enough. If you want do deal with aggressers too, use zephyrim's sky strike abilities to bog them down.

I'm not sure what you mean, but dominions no longer boost transports.

Also, i wouldn't assault aggressors with zephs if i didn't have an inquisitor to stop overwatch.

Dominions have vanguard, you can move as it is movement phase the first round. So if you advance that, +6 that then during movement phase just normal 6"

Ah I don't know much about 40k and such, I am not that good are remembering other factions, unless I go against them over and over. I am just coming back to 40k from Aos.

6 aggressors average 108 shots when bolters. That's...nasty. Not to mention if you drop into them from deepstrike they shoot once at 4+ for added fun. so you will be taking 108 shots hitting on 4+, wound on 3+ and you save on 3+, then another round hitting on 6's. That's 16 dead zephyr. Not safe prospect at all. Even without auspex scan stratagem overwatch alone kills 4.

And that's without rerolls. Imagine if they have reroll aura nearby for hit rolls...

(hopefully didn't misremember any rule)

So in short: Don't deep strike and charge them! At least with move+charge only overwatch. So 10 girls charge in, you lose 4. Remaining 6 attacks 19 times, hit say 13, wound about half so let's say you are lucky and get 7. That's 2 dead aggressor out of 6. Then you face lotsa power fist attacks.

tneva82 wrote:
6 aggressors average 108 shots when bolters. That's...nasty. Not to mention if you drop into them from deepstrike they shoot once at 4+ for added fun. so you will be taking 108 shots hitting on 4+, wound on 3+ and you save on 3+, then another round hitting on 6's. That's 16 dead zephyr. Not safe prospect at all. Even without auspex scan stratagem overwatch alone kills 4.

And that's without rerolls. Imagine if they have reroll aura nearby for hit rolls...

(hopefully didn't misremember any rule)

So in short: Don't deep strike and charge them! At least with move+charge only overwatch. So 10 girls charge in, you lose 4. Remaining 6 attacks 19 times, hit say 13, wound about half so let's say you are lucky and get 7. That's 2 dead aggressor out of 6. Then you face lotsa power fist attacks.

I see your point! Good to know!

Dominions lost the abiity to vanguard vehicles, but maybe i just misread your post and you moved only dominions and not immolators.

Aniway, aggressors in my book are a melta target, not even penitent engines want to assault that.

Xfrawg wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
6 aggressors average 108 shots when bolters. That's...nasty. Not to mention if you drop into them from deepstrike they shoot once at 4+ for added fun. so you will be taking 108 shots hitting on 4+, wound on 3+ and you save on 3+, then another round hitting on 6's. That's 16 dead zephyr. Not safe prospect at all. Even without auspex scan stratagem overwatch alone kills 4.

And that's without rerolls. Imagine if they have reroll aura nearby for hit rolls...

(hopefully didn't misremember any rule)

So in short: Don't deep strike and charge them! At least with move+charge only overwatch. So 10 girls charge in, you lose 4. Remaining 6 attacks 19 times, hit say 13, wound about half so let's say you are lucky and get 7. That's 2 dead aggressor out of 6. Then you face lotsa power fist attacks.

I see your point! Good to know!

The aggressors shoot ridiculous amount of shots. If you see them accept that anything that starts 23" or less away from bolter variants is going to take tons of shots and assaulting them without Inquisitor to shut down overwatch is seriously bad idea. Flamer variant is bit easier as threat range is just 13" but there they will flat out vaporize target. However those you can charge with zephyr as they can't overwatch beyond 8"...unless they have custom chapter trait that gives them 3" more range. But in that case if you have 2 6's for miracle dices you could still charge them and surprise him by making "impossible" charge. Nobody wants to face 12d6(I think) automatic hits from those flamers in overwatch! But with 12" charge you bypass them. Mwahaha.

Shoot them. Though often have FNP giving banner nearby and then when you kill one it shoots at you on 4+. But primary weapons to shoot down these T5 3+ W3 will be melta weapons and exorcist missiles. And hope he can't buff them to invulnerable(at least blood angels can do that)

Yep, I'll join the chorus on Agressors. If they're on the board, they get my first Exorcist volley. In my first game against them I chose to take out a Las Pred and soften up a Repulsor on turn 1 instead, and they split fire and took nearly three units off the board, including stormbolter Doms, heavy flamer Rets, and most of a big BSS.

 MacPhail wrote:
Yep, I'll join the chorus on Agressors. If they're on the board, they get my first Exorcist volley. In my first game against them I chose to take out a Las Pred and soften up a Repulsor on turn 1 instead, and they split fire and took nearly three units off the board, including stormbolter Doms, heavy flamer Rets, and most of a big BSS.

Does Exocist need be LoS?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
To shoot them? if they are not in cover?

 MacPhail wrote:
Yep, I'll join the chorus on Agressors. If they're on the board, they get my first Exorcist volley. In my first game against them I chose to take out a Las Pred and soften up a Repulsor on turn 1 instead, and they split fire and took nearly three units off the board, including stormbolter Doms, heavy flamer Rets, and most of a big BSS.

Another nasty combo you might run into. Blood angels, aggressors. For starters they can be given 5++. Then they have the 5+++. Then they have stratagem allowing them to heroic intervene from 6"!!! And then they punch like hell. I made stupid mistake of charging into lone aggressor(rest had died) with knight gallant with plan to stomp more primaris as well. Then the other squad of aggressors heroic intervened(and as they had started more than 12" hadn't been able to declare them as target and couldn't attack them either). Then they flat out vaporized the knight. Lots of attacks(3 per model), rerolls, S8 with +1 to wound...

Just 'cause they aren't iron hands or some other shooty chapter don't ignore aggressors. They shoot lots yes but also hit in melee well


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xfrawg wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
Yep, I'll join the chorus on Agressors. If they're on the board, they get my first Exorcist volley. In my first game against them I chose to take out a Las Pred and soften up a Repulsor on turn 1 instead, and they split fire and took nearly three units off the board, including stormbolter Doms, heavy flamer Rets, and most of a big BSS.

Does Exocist need be LoS?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
To shoot them? if they are not in cover?

Yes. Exorcist needs LOS. That's why you have good speed though. The aggressors lumber 5" a turn without advance so not that fast.

If a Canoness with the Beacon of Faith warlord trait is in a vehicle at the start of a turn, does she count as “being on the battlefield” for the purpose of gaining a MD?

 davidgr33n wrote:
If a Canoness with the Beacon of Faith warlord trait is in a vehicle at the start of a turn, does she count as “being on the battlefield” for the purpose of gaining a MD?

i do not believe so.

Nope. In vehicle you literally don't exist for rules except when specifically said otherwise.

Btw order of martyred lady stratagem. If character is resurrected via stratagem does effect continue? Stratagem that gives cp when warlord dies specifically says not applied if resurected. Other doesn't.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
So with 29.2 tournament attendance chances approaching zero fast time to look for next one. Unless new tournaments are announced beforehand early april would be one. Alas it's likely to be competive so I need to tune up my list power level up even more neccessitating purchaces and more stuff to paint so let's do that to focus on...Assuming canoness and imagiers are on preorder 21.3 by latest(if not yet another tournament I have to skip) here's what I have come up with.



There. Quite a gunline. One issue I can see is 3 pointing melee units. Coteaz and blessed blade canoness will be tag teaming to deal with those but other suggestions considered. One idea is to drop heavy bolter retributors and add 2 mortificators or 9 repentia to hide behind LOS blocking before charging.

So I played a game with my sisters/grey knights/ inquisitors yesterday and I wanted to post up what I found. It was 750 pts vs 750 pure grey knights.

List was pretty straightforward.

Sisters of value heart

2 canonesses w/ blessed blade and bolt pistols
3x 5 sisters, 1 w/ storm bolter
1 imagifier with stoic for ignore AP-2


Grey knights patrol

Librarian
Chaplain
1 x 5 man term squad w/ halbreds

Inquisitior w/ ordos blade



Mission was scorched earth. I wont go into a full battle report detail about the game but things I found out.

I moved my sisters into a terrain features and sat on an objective objective t1 and spent the entire game there for the most part with them. Vs grey knights in the cover tide my bolters did nothing all game. I didn't kill a single grey knight all game with bolters from the sisters.

However the sisters were next to impossible to remove as well. At one point I failed 9 wounds and thanks to miracle dice and strats I ended up losing only 2 girls in cover (1 auto pass, 1 strat to discard a miracle dice and increase a roll by 1, and cp reroll). Also when my opponents paladins deep struck in with their apothecary terminator (who was the warlord) and charged me my opponent found out that ap-2 falchion swords didnt kill sisters very quickly due to the ignore when ended up being a slugfest where 1 of my canonesses w/ the relic bless blade kept killing a paladin a turn. Then the inquisitor would put a wound on one so the apothecary couldn't revive the dead one, with my other canoness running around the combat and charging from behind attacking and killing the apothecary in one round of combat.

So sisters at least at low points I have found to be not very good st killing things but almost impossible to remove. At the next level of our escalation league I will need to add more sisters in, hopefully something that will increase the girls ability to put out some range pain.

Also grey knights in pure mode are scary. My opponent kept then in cover tide for most the game but once we got really stuck into combat he switched to smite and that's when girls started dying. If it wasn't for my own grey knights being there (mostly the chaplain with the +3 to deny chant and the librarian) I would have had a real issue at this point in the game.

Spoletta wrote:

Celestians can reroll all hits and wounds.

4 attacks per girl at Rerollable 3s to hit and rerollable 3s to wound, with AP-1 multiplied by 9 girls are 14,4 wounds.
The superiors with 5 attacks at AP-4 adds 4 more wounds.

The total is slightly above 9 intercessors killed, 30 boyz/gaunts deleted, 11 wounds on a Leman Russ, a dead flyrant, a wiped squad of 9 shining spears, 10 wounds on a disco lord. There are few things in the game that want to be near that 104 point unit.

ah ha, I missed that their stratagem effects melee as well.
3cp is certainly an investment though for bring it down and rerolls


Automatically Appended Next Post:
does anyone have the dominion box yet?

checking the GW site for contents, it appears that it is just a battle sisters box with a different box (eg, same exact sprues?)