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 ierp wrote:
Hello, is there any general consensus on the matter of playing the germinae with Celestine? Are they dispensable or strongly advised?

Also, when the codex states that germinae can attempt to intercept attacks done against Celestine, does it only apply for fight phase or can it be done against shooting attacks?

Thanks in advance!

The Geminae superia are arguably the worst unit in the game. They're a total waste of points. As for their intercept rule, it can be done in both phase, it just never will because you really shouldn't be taking them.

ERJAK wrote:

 ierp wrote:
Hello, is there any general consensus on the matter of playing the germinae with Celestine? Are they dispensable or strongly advised?

Also, when the codex states that germinae can attempt to intercept attacks done against Celestine, does it only apply for fight phase or can it be done against shooting attacks?

Thanks in advance!

The Geminae superia are arguably the worst unit in the game. They're a total waste of points. As for their intercept rule, it can be done in both phase, it just never will because you really shouldn't be taking them.

Wow that's an overstatement, I present exhibit A the mutilator and exhibit B the obelisk.

single geminae is a Cheap character to sit on a backfield objective really strong - in 8th

9th hasn’t even come out and I’m dreading it for my sisters with all the changes I’m seeing. It’s either mono BR and more CP or VH+BR and less CP. And we’re a CP-hungry faction.
So much for GW promise of “take the units you want to take” - 8th edition was MUCH FRIENDLIER for this statement

I'm feeling this too. I really like the hammer and anvil combo of Valorous Heart and Bloody Rose, both in terms of how it feels to command and how it plays in practice. I'll be bummed to give it up. It sounds like a Battalion w/ warlord goes +3/-3 and then... what? Pay 2 for a patrol or 3 more for a second Battalion? I was hoping 1CP for a Patrol, 2CP for a Vanguard/Spearhead/etc., and so on, and even then I'd have really had to think about it. And now the fortification seems a little more contentious too assuming they cost CP. Add Open the Reliquaries and Heroine in the Making and suddenly the army I've been imagining costs 6+CP just to get on the table. The +1 per turn will offset this, and obviously we haven't seen the whole scheme yet, but this makes core Strats like Blessed Bolts, Deadly Descent, etc. seem a little less spamable.

 davidgr33n wrote:
9th hasn’t even come out and I’m dreading it for my sisters with all the changes I’m seeing. It’s either mono BR and more CP or VH+BR and less CP. And we’re a CP-hungry faction.
So much for GW promise of “take the units you want to take” - 8th edition was MUCH FRIENDLIER for this statement

Sisters are not a CP hungry faction. I play multi factions and sisters are probably the 2nd least CP intensive in the imperium

Sisters have a lot of would likes but very few essentials and with say deadly descent its mostly covered by the CP per turn

You now need to make choices

Well for me It's basically wash. Brigade+vanquard=16 CP vs 18 in 9th ed. bat+bat+vanquard even less. So I'm less worried about that. I'm more worried about already broken good marines getting buff over buff over buff over buff over buff over buff...there's not been anything BAD for marines so far...

In otherwords got 3 game tournament with sister. Albeit casual 1k so not biggest reveals. Triumph was used for funs and it actually performed quite well. 1st game taking on damaged knight(12 wounds by single exorcist, 1 wound by lone sister superior just for lolz) before Triumph got around. With her relic and all the MD's and whatnot I got the knight down to 3 wounds. By all rights my 16 wound triumph should have survived the 2 combat rounds(he averages 10 damage assuming I use no MD on 2nd combat round) but dice cometh, dice giveth.

2nd game I was subjected to marine fire on super sparse board and then went on duel with invictor warsuit but was actually winning that one!

And on 3rd game most of ork force focused on her for couple rounds as I was deleting elements and she was still on last bracket at the end.

18 wounds, 4++, -1 to hit and with MD's fairly easy 2-3 saves quaranteed per phase made triumph surprisingly resilient.

if that were true it would be fine but its not

12+1 per turn does not equal 18.

most games are decided by 4 so really its 16 meaningfully

but you now have to pay for detatchments so that 16 becomes 14 assuming brigade + patrol and only 10 Pregame

so Pregame I'm spending
2-3 on relics (1 Extra VS Smite spam armies)
1 on imagifier
1 on Heroin in the making
0-2 on (variable Sacred rites)
2 on reserves (9th new spending)
So thats 6-9 and only starting with 10
(if fortifications costs more than 1CP) Something has to drop

The 3 CP for T1-T3 covers bolts and deadly descent

Nice thing is the only other strats worth using are BR strat and adv+charge both being 1CP so any saved from earlier brings them into the game

but its very tight

U02dah4 wrote:
if that were true it would be fine but its not

12+1 per turn does not equal 18.

most games are decided by 4 so really its 16 meaningfully

but you now have to pay for detatchments so that 16 becomes 14 assuming brigade + patrol and only 10 Pregame

so Pregame I'm spending
2-3 on relics (1 Extra VS Smite spam armies)
1 on imagifier
1 on Heroin in the making
0-2 on (variable Sacred rites)
2 on reserves (9th new spending)
So thats 6-9 and only starting with 10
(if fortifications costs more than 1CP) Something has to drop

The 3 CP for T1-T3 covers bolts and deadly descent

Nice thing is the only other strats worth using are BR strat and adv+charge both being 1CP so any saved from earlier brings them into the game

but its very tight

You say this here but in your previous post just 3 posts up you challenge my statement that Sisters “are not a CP-hungry faction.” You even admit after your pregame CP usage you only have about 3 CP to use in-game.

Which is it?

thats not CP Hungry thats workable

CP Hungry is admech by comparison

Mixed subfaction build

Extra WL 3CP
Extra Relic 1CP
Divine chorous 2CP
Ryzaphron 5CP
Dragoon 1CP +1 per round of combat
Infiltrators 2CP
Corpuscarii 2CP
Stygies strat on HQ 1CP
Kastelan Strat 1CP
(and thats what you use by T2 currently without luxuries

factoring detatchments your spending 22/ out of 14 by T2

Or Aggripinaa build
Agripinaa strat 12CP alone
(+ the rest)


Stygies + knight build
Knight +WL/Relic 5 CP
Extra WL 3 CP
Extra Relic 1 CP
divine chorus 2CP
knight of the cog 1CP
Corpuscarii 2 CP
kastellan strat 1CP
Dragoon 1 CP +1 per round of combat

17/11 by T2

U02dah4 wrote:
thats not CP Hungry thats workable

CP Hungry is admech by comparison

Mixed subfaction build

Extra WL 3CP
Extra Relic 1CP
Divine chorous 2CP
Ryzaphron 5CP
Dragoon 1CP +1 per round of combat
Infiltrators 2CP
Corpuscarii 2CP
Stygies strat on HQ 1CP
Kastelan Strat 1CP
(and thats what you use by T2 currently without luxuries

factoring detatchments your spending 22/ out of 14 by T2

Or Aggripinaa build
Agripinaa strat 12CP alone
(+ the rest)


Stygies + knight build
Knight +WL/Relic 5 CP
Extra WL 3 CP
Extra Relic 1 CP
divine chorus 2CP
knight of the cog 1CP
Corpuscarii 2 CP
kastellan strat 1CP
Dragoon 1 CP +1 per round of combat

17/11 by T2

Well you could have made this a caveat, as in “compared to other factions, Sisters isn’t a CP hungry faction.” Regardless of how much more CP other factions use, Sisters are still a CP- hungry faction. You allow the remaining 3 or 4 to-start CP for one strat (for Seraphim), what about us other players who like to use the other 30 or so Strats not to mention Prepared positions or one of the other universal Strats? And now we’ve got to factor in CP usage for outflanking, it just doesn’t really give us much to play with.
I think GW will eventually add more CP to start just like they bumped up the amount of CP for the different detachments in early 8th.

I don't see this as a big problem. You've got a CP budget, if you want to spend it on the situational in-game strats don't spend it all on pre-game strats. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Sisters are in a decently advantageous position over all in the new system because they can make good brigades for the primary detachment. Many other are pretty stuck by expensive/bad options in some of the battlefield roles or are much more limited by going with a single subfaction.

rbstr wrote:
I don't see this as a big problem. You've got a CP budget, if you want to spend it on the situational in-game strats don't spend it all on pre-game strats. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Sisters are in a decently advantageous position over all in the new system because they can make good brigades for the primary detachment. Many other are pretty stuck by expensive/bad options in some of the battlefield roles or are much more limited by going with a single subfaction.

Exactly. The idea that CP should be readily available for you to do everything you want goes against the entire concept of it being a finite, valuable, and limited resources.

Also md dice ease up on cp need. Less need for cp rerolling those to hit and to wound rolls

Some things are definitely getting cut. Not going to bother with double imagifier buffs outside of bloody rose, haven't liked heroine since the new book dropped. Fixing Sacred Rites isn't really worth the CP anymore, better to just pick 1 you know you'll actually use.

Hopefully fortifications are free and/or outriders/spearheads are only 1CP because our biggest loss would be not being able to mix and match Convictions. And the battle sanctum is only getting better as time goes on.

Lemondish wrote:

rbstr wrote:
I don't see this as a big problem. You've got a CP budget, if you want to spend it on the situational in-game strats don't spend it all on pre-game strats. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Sisters are in a decently advantageous position over all in the new system because they can make good brigades for the primary detachment. Many other are pretty stuck by expensive/bad options in some of the battlefield roles or are much more limited by going with a single subfaction.

Exactly. The idea that CP should be readily available for you to do everything you want goes against the entire concept of it being a finite, valuable, and limited resources.

My argument through all this is that we (and other horde and non-elite factions) are getting a CP cut in the name of “CP balance”, yet those factions that are getting more CP at our expense are the factions that are already doing well, namely SM and other elite factions. So I guess since the consensus here seems to be “get over it” I’ll just feel ok with getting screwed, again.

tneva82 wrote:
Well for me It's basically wash. Brigade+vanquard=16 CP vs 18 in 9th ed. bat+bat+vanquard even less. So I'm less worried about that. I'm more worried about already broken good marines getting buff over buff over buff over buff over buff over buff...there's not been anything BAD for marines so far...

In otherwords got 3 game tournament with sister. Albeit casual 1k so not biggest reveals. Triumph was used for funs and it actually performed quite well. 1st game taking on damaged knight(12 wounds by single exorcist, 1 wound by lone sister superior just for lolz) before Triumph got around. With her relic and all the MD's and whatnot I got the knight down to 3 wounds. By all rights my 16 wound triumph should have survived the 2 combat rounds(he averages 10 damage assuming I use no MD on 2nd combat round) but dice cometh, dice giveth.

2nd game I was subjected to marine fire on super sparse board and then went on duel with invictor warsuit but was actually winning that one!

And on 3rd game most of ork force focused on her for couple rounds as I was deleting elements and she was still on last bracket at the end.

18 wounds, 4++, -1 to hit and with MD's fairly easy 2-3 saves quaranteed per phase made triumph surprisingly resilient.

That's not being completely honest, they suffered some pretty big nerfs too.

They are now an aurahammer faction with the worst units to protect the chars, this is going to matter a lot in 9th.

They loved 10 man intercessors, which now get extra damage from the blast rule, while at the same time not gaining much advantage from the blast rule,

Repulsors can now be bad touched.

They had the second strongest overwatch after T'au sept lists, which now is mostly gone.

Strategic reserves allows the opponent to play around the doctrine turns and limit the advantages they have.


There is a lot changing and marines are not getting out of this unscathed. There are factions which are getting the shorter end of the stick sure, but marines are not getting a free pass either.
The chapter that is getting the best deal right now are the ultramarines.

Spoletta makes great points. I'd also like to mention the points changes will have a decent impact on everybody in a way that we can't fully know yet.

Though a Repulsor getting bad touched doesn't sound like much of an issue for them - they're bristling with both anti-infantry and anti-tank weaponry.

This does feel like a balancing move, and the game could do with more balance. I'm realizing that to run multi-faction builds (or inter-faction soup builds, or possibly lists with fortifications) will be more of a decisive commitment of resources than a casual fun twist or a power play. I'll probably still run VH+BR at times, but there's a strong case being made for mono armies given all the different ways to sink CP. Maybe even a case for mono-Brigades given what seems like a sweet spot in terms of PPM for Sisters. So I'm ultimately feeling okay about it, but it was a slight shock to internalize the change.

It feels like an un-balancing move - being a decisive commitment of resources it will either be a power play or you won't see it.

Which shuts down a lot of variability. Or punish people for trying something fun and unconventional

Sure GW probably believe its balancing but we have just come from one of the most balanced editions (by the end). Changing so much will more likely have the opposite impact

Edition where best faction has almost twice the win rate of worst ones is hardly balanced.

Its not that bad the majority of armies have been +-10% your never going to get perfect balance

tneva82 wrote:
Edition where best faction has almost twice the win rate of worst ones is hardly balanced.

The SM 2.0 Codex is where things got skewed outta whack with them, before that release 8th was in the best spot I’ve ever seen - and I’ve been playing since 1997.

A Sister of Battle on the run and a mysterious Alien - together they fight Chaos...... A new series coming to Netflix soon!



Looks like you can still use the following strats on her:

Moment of Grace,
Heroine in the Making (likey to be faqed away)
Divine Intervention
Holy Rage
Suffer not the Witch
Purity of Faith
Judgement of the Faithful

As a Sisters character she’s able to take relics (unless FAQ’d). I could see her take the Emps Wrath to replace her bolt pistol, or you could make her a good melee character and give her the Iron Surplice for a 2+/4++/5+++ (near Kyganil) and ignores wound rolls of 1-3.
So the question is, are they worth 115 points??

 davidgr33n wrote:
So the question is, are they worth 115 points??

and will they still be 115pts when 9th edition drops....

I'm more interested in exactly how Unexpected Allies works.

1. I assume the intent is if you take Fallen you can't take Stern and Kyganil at all, but that's not how the ability is worded.

2. If you do bring Fallen, how much of the ability turns off? If it's just the first sentence, which is what the grammatical reading says, then the pair can be included in any Imperium detachment as an HQ slot but the rest of the ability still applies

3. If the entire ability turns off, there's nothing prohibiting you from bringing them in an Auxiliary detachment for 1CP.

 davidgr33n wrote:
As a Sisters character she’s able to take relics (unless FAQ’d). I could see her take the Emps Wrath to replace her bolt pistol, or you could make her a good melee character and give her the Iron Surplice for a 2+/4++/5+++ (near Kyganil) and ignores wound rolls of 1-3.
So the question is, are they worth 115 points??

Not sure about Relics as she is a Named Character so that would rule her out.

Ahhh, correct - I’d forgotten about that.

IMO there’s better uses for 115 points, and I don’t think those points will change as I’m sure GW anticipated 9th coming out right afterwards.

 davidgr33n wrote:
Ahhh, correct - I’d forgotten about that.

IMO there’s better uses for 115 points, and I don’t think those points will change as I’m sure GW anticipated 9th coming out right afterwards.

yeah but do they care?? Some of the PA traits I belive are already invalidated by new terrian etc rules.

I'll get here cos I said I would get all the Sisters Models and I have