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Quite possibly the most elitist garbage that has been spewed on here this week. And by a guy who professed a couple pages back to the fact that he doesn’t even show his own work on here. Wow. Take a bow, HSM1. That was horrible.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Quite possibly the most elitist garbage that has been spewed on here this week. And by a guy who professed a couple pages back to the fact that he doesn’t even show his own work on here. Wow. Take a bow, HSM1. That was horrible.

How is it elitist? Elitism would be barring people from painting or even showing their work if it didnt X level of quality
What im saying if i think paint by numbers creates painters that end up being lazy and end up not able to paint without following certain directions.
Techniques and application of techniques are what allow people to prosper(Along with experimenting) and become better.
Also i dont show my recent stuff on here out of laziness and shame cause i think everything i paint is garbage LOL.
But good on ya, saying something you disagree with is Elitism, a good way to shut down an argument HA.

That assumes that a person in invested in the act and process of painting itself. I personally find it hard to work up the motivation, finding it more of a chore on the way to an aesthetic end.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Quite possibly the most elitist garbage that has been spewed on here this week. And by a guy who professed a couple pages back to the fact that he doesn’t even show his own work on here. Wow. Take a bow, HSM1. That was horrible.

How is it elitist? Elitism would be barring people from painting or even showing their work if it didnt X level of quality
What im saying if i think paint by numbers creates painters that end up being lazy and end up not able to paint without following certain directions.
Techniques and application of techniques are what allow people to prosper(Along with experimenting) and become better.
Also i dont show my recent stuff on here out of laziness and shame cause i think everything i paint is garbage LOL.
But good on ya, saying something you disagree with is Elitism, a good way to shut down an argument HA.

The elitism is in your use of terms like "paint by numbers", your dismissal of anyone not dedicated to becoming the sodding DaVinci of miniature painting as "lazy" or "stagnating" or "unable to think for themselves" for just wanting a nice simple guide to let them get reasonably good looking models on the table. It comes from the genuinely laughable(as in, when I read it, I actually laughed out loud in disbelief that anyone would actually put on such ludicrous airs over miniature painting) notion that videos aimed at providing for that segment of the market are "harming the hobby".

Literally everything about your point of view and how you've expressed it is elitist. Don't try and paint this as an ad-hom or an attempt to silence you for speaking out against the dastardly menace of...erm...*checks notes*, "painting videos that are too easy to follow" - it is 100% correct and accurate to describe what you've said here as elitism.

Ahh so giving an opinion on what i think these videos do is called elitism now.
There is nothing elitist about thinking these videos do more harm than good.
Teaching good, basic techniques, basecoating, washing and how to make your own scheme and make your own way to paint is 100% better than these videos and will make the hobby better.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ahh so giving an opinion on what i think these videos do is called elitism now.
There is nothing elitist about thinking these videos do more harm than good.
Teaching good, basic techniques, basecoating, washing and how to make your own scheme and make your own way to paint is 100% better than these videos and will make the hobby better.

When your opinion is elitist, giving your opinion is elitism, yes.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ahh so giving an opinion on what i think these videos do is called elitism now.
There is nothing elitist about thinking these videos do more harm than good.
Teaching good, basic techniques, basecoating, washing and how to make your own scheme and make your own way to paint is 100% better than these videos and will make the hobby better.

I’m honestly lost for words. The idea that these videos cause harm is just baffling.

Moving on ...

I think Duncan’s biggest hurdle is going to be that he doesn’t (yet) seem to be doing anything in his videos that you couldn’t watch for free. His Sororitas video was almost the same as the kind of thing he used to make for GW and GW are continuing to put out with other presenters.

I'm glad Duncan still make video for beginners AND still using brushes, not these aerographs we see in majority on Youtube.

For advanced painting, the offer is already here. That's why it's good to have something like Duncan. It's a very good thing for the Hobby, actually.

In truth he should only be making conceptual videos that don't show you how to paint, but more discuss the harm that bad painting videos can do to the hobby. Watching Duncan should be an experience akin to meeting God on the road to Damascus (or Nottingham, if you prefer), and his simple words and abstract notions should instil new and more daring painting techniques into your very DNA!!!


Oh, y'know, he can do what he likes and help people who don't know how or are just starting to paint. That works as well!

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I mean this is more about my personal opinions on those types of videos and why they are harmful to the hobby.

"Harmful". Whoah.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ahh so giving an opinion on what i think these videos do is called elitism now.
There is nothing elitist about thinking these videos do more harm than good.
Teaching good, basic techniques, basecoating, washing and how to make your own scheme and make your own way to paint is 100% better than these videos and will make the hobby better.

Yeah, see, thing is, "making the hobby better" it's neither Duncan's nor anyone else's drive, obligation or need. "Having fun", "being happy with what you do" and "getting stuff bloody done" is.

Bu I'm curious now: seeing as this is a wargaming forum, and that painting your minis is at best a part of if (see chits and hexes games, or prepainteds like XWing), do you live by the same standards regarding the actual games? I mean, do you train regularly and believe that not doing so is getting stagnant and the like?

I've subbed to a good few Patreon painting channels, but they've always been to learn advanced techniques that I wasn't able to get elsewhere for free.

It's the niche that Bohun, Ben Komets and Zatcaskagoon fill that draws my interest because they offer unique painting guides.

I'm hoping Duncan goes the advanced painting guide route for his paid content because I'm not sure it'll offer beginners enough that they couldn't get for free.

YouTube is already an amazing source of painting guides for beginner to intermediate level for free. I think paid content sits with more advanced painters.

I’m actually positive that the “these videos are harmful to the hobby” comment is actually the worst post this forum has ever seen. I’m trying to remember a worse comment, and even the stuff the Arrogant Bird used to say about how “anyone playing things differently to how she did was horribly wrong” wasn’t even this bad. This is the most elitist, trollish filth that has been spewed on here. “Harmful” my ass. Sheesh.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
This is the most elitist, trollish filth that has been spewed on here.

Jesus. Calm down.

Attacking the person doesn't make your argument any better actually it makes you domineering and condescending. People can share their opinion, you know.
Make arguments not insults.

@timetowaste85 your statements bring absolutely nothing to the table, except bad vibe.

Okay people, dial things back a bit, now.

 Albertorius wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I mean this is more about my personal opinions on those types of videos and why they are harmful to the hobby.

"Harmful". Whoah.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ahh so giving an opinion on what i think these videos do is called elitism now.
There is nothing elitist about thinking these videos do more harm than good.
Teaching good, basic techniques, basecoating, washing and how to make your own scheme and make your own way to paint is 100% better than these videos and will make the hobby better.

Yeah, see, thing is, "making the hobby better" it's neither Duncan's nor anyone else's drive, obligation or need. "Having fun", "being happy with what you do" and "getting stuff bloody done" is.

Bu I'm curious now: seeing as this is a wargaming forum, and that painting your minis is at best a part of if (see chits and hexes games, or prepainteds like XWing), do you live by the same standards regarding the actual games? I mean, do you train regularly and believe that not doing so is getting stagnant and the like?

I live my life by that ideal. Anything I do I attempt to get better at, even if marginally.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Quite possibly the most elitist garbage that has been spewed on here this week. And by a guy who professed a couple pages back to the fact that he doesn’t even show his own work on here. Wow. Take a bow, HSM1. That was horrible.

How is it elitist? Elitism would be barring people from painting or even showing their work if it didnt X level of quality
What im saying if i think paint by numbers creates painters that end up being lazy and end up not able to paint without following certain directions.
Techniques and application of techniques are what allow people to prosper(Along with experimenting) and become better.
Also i dont show my recent stuff on here out of laziness and shame cause i think everything i paint is garbage LOL.
But good on ya, saying something you disagree with is Elitism, a good way to shut down an argument HA.

Well, if everything you paint is garbage, maybe those "paint by numbers" videos are exactly what you need?

From a business stand point it does make sense for him to capitalise on his following and repeating the tutorials that made him "famous".

I don't know about you but I would never go solo ( or duo with the camera man) on an extremely niche thing on YouTube that, lets face it, is not very popular.
Like, he may be famous on our community and he may have 40 or 100k subscribers but that in the great world of YouTube is effectively peanuts.
Maybe its fine for him and good luck but this is highly risky to say the least.

As for the damaging to the hobby comment, I don't understand it from any angle presented so far.
If your just talking about YOUR hobby then how something your not interest in participating is affecting your hobby activities?
If your talking about OTHERs hobby, how do you know? Like 40k seem to be quite happy with it.

The idea of my way of the highway is just so backwards when referring to hobbies. Chill man.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I live my life by that ideal. Anything I do I attempt to get better at, even if marginally.

Well, that is nothing if not consistent. How do you go about training wargaming techniques and tactics, if you don't mind me asking? Do you refine the basis and make them applicable for every system, or in a game by game basis?

If that works for you, it might even be interesting to see a "hotsauceman1's Wargaming Academia" youtube channel.

Oh god just because i try to improve doesnt mean im not garbage at everything i do lol!!!!!
And i mostly do it by just playing games.

I think Duncan’s Sisters video is exactly what I wished the GW videos where, which is a bit longer and less rushed. GW seems to think anything over 5 minutes shouldn’t be done for a basic troop, yet basic troops are where I’m going to spend most of my painting.

I look forward to more stuff.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:
I think Duncan’s Sisters video is exactly what I wished the GW videos where, which is a bit longer and less rushed. GW seems to think anything over 5 minutes shouldn’t be done for a basic troop, yet basic troops are where I’m going to spend most of my painting.

Most people I know tend to spend more time and effort on their characters and vehicles rather than trooper #39 of 70, etc.

It still takes more time to paint 7 plague marines than to paint one Typhus.

Or 30 boyz vs 1 Big Mek

Sarouan wrote:
I'm glad Duncan still make video for beginners AND still using brushes, not these aerographs we see in majority on Youtube.

Who is using Aerographs to paint?

 Jidmah wrote:
It still takes more time to paint 7 plague marines than to paint one Typhus.

Or 30 boyz vs 1 Big Mek

And a tutorial for the Plague Marines shouldn't be as long or as in-depth as the tutorial for Typhus, so five minutes for a tutorial for the basic troops is fine as long as the results are good. If someone wants to go all-out on each and every individual Plague Marine then they can use what they've learned from watching the Typhus tutorial.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh god just because i try to improve doesnt mean im not garbage at everything i do lol!!!!!
And i mostly do it by just playing games.

But do you play against other regular or new gamers or only against the bes people who have the best tactics?

Final warning to all involved, that's enough. Next person to ignore a warning gets a timeout.

EDIT:: Nevermind

JWBS wrote:
Alternatively, the argument isn't heated in the slightest, disagreement is normal, expression of preferences is absolutely acceptable, and people saying "It's kinda outrageous that everyone isn't cheering this" are absurd.

Ok spirited debate, ( are you sure there is mod warnings) but at no point did I say this is the only way and all must celebrate , purely if you don't like it fine just show your dis-interest by not watching it.

I personally found it helpful but clearly this is not the same for everyone.

Ultimately duncan will rise or fall by subscribers I for one will not be subscribing mainly due to the abundance of free videos available. But wish him luck none the less as I would anyone starting out a painting channel.

Marxist artist wrote:

JWBS wrote:


Ultimately duncan will rise or fall by subscribers I for one will not be subscribing mainly due to the abundance of free videos available. But wish him luck none the less as I would anyone starting out a painting channel.

It also IMO depends on how much force of personality he has, there are tons of tutorials out there and being entertaining is going to be way more important.
If he stays wooden like he is, i dont think he will survive long