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2020/04/20 16:00:02
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.43 Sons of Behemat reveal.
Kanluwen wrote: Again: we had elf helmets that size before. Why wasn't this a big deal with Eltharion the Grim, Tyrion, Teclis, etc?
Old models get a pass, I think. Since everything had to be wonky and disproportional due to sculpting limitations at the time. The new Eltharion model, for example, has a much more reasonable sized helmet. It's pretty big but nowhere near as unreasonable as old Eltharion. The new helms just seem very top heavy. Like the bull head just seems massive compared to helmet additions in the past. At the very least, the horns don't seem like they'd inhibit hammer swings. A model that's helmet doesn't make sense is the great sword Untamed Beast guy. His helmet's horns are literally blocking the sword he's about to swing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/20 16:00:45
2020/04/20 16:29:26
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.43 Sons of Behemat reveal.
I'm not quite sure what sculpting limitations required 28-35mm models to have huge oversized crests on the helms. Sure if we go down to 15mm of 6mm then things get oversized to the extreme in comparison; but at 28mm no you don't need huge wings as a sculpting limit.
It's a design and aesthetic choice just like most of the pauldrons on Warmachine infantry are insanely big (heck Marines have ones so huge that even in cosplay they can't move their arms right)
Kanluwen wrote: Again: we had elf helmets that size before. Why wasn't this a big deal with Eltharion the Grim, Tyrion, Teclis, etc?
Old models get a pass, I think. Since everything had to be wonky and disproportional due to sculpting limitations at the time. The new Eltharion model, for example, has a much more reasonable sized helmet. It's pretty big but nowhere near as unreasonable as old Eltharion. The new helms just seem very top heavy. Like the bull head just seems massive compared to helmet additions in the past. At the very least, the horns don't seem like they'd inhibit hammer swings. A model that's helmet doesn't make sense is the great sword Untamed Beast guy. His helmet's horns are literally blocking the sword he's about to swing.
Minor point, but you never swing a 2 handed sword directly downwards.
Doing so leaves you open to a counter attack and it’s easily avoided or deflected.
He has his weapon readied, yes.
Not about to swing though.
Generally it’s sideways arcs with 2 handed swords as it’s hard to block due to the impact it causes and it’s hard to avoid as it’s such a wide sweeping arc.
2020/04/20 16:48:30
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.43 Sons of Behemat reveal.
I'd also say that the photos make the helmets look bigger too. I think once people see the models in their hand they might be more accepting of them as they are. Sadly with the lockdown its going to be months before we get our hands on them.
That. With the old helmets, all the added wings and crests and things seemed to be centred around and carried by the head, even if they were hugely oversized. The cow horns are carried at the top of that very tall hat. It looks as if, on top of having to carry a big weight on your head, you also have to avoid tipping your head a degree to either side, or the whole lot will send you stumbling. Or at least, even more so.
Which would not look very dignified for a haughty elf, at all, at all.
The funniest part is that you chose an example(Japanese helmets) that arguably prove that it's entirely possible.
How?
Spoiler:
During the Momoyama period of intense civil warfare, kabuto were made to a simpler design of three or four plates, lacking many of the ornamental features of earlier helmets. To offset the plain, utilitarian form of the new helmet, and to provide visibility and presence on the battlefield, armorers began to build fantastic shapes on top of the simple helmets in harikake (papier-mâché mixed with lacquer over a wooden armature), though some were constructed entirely of iron. These shapes mimicked forms from Japanese culture and mythology, including fish, cow horns, the head of the god of longevity, bolts of silk, head scarves, Ichi-no-Tani canyon, and axe heads, among many others. Some forms were realistically rendered, while others took on a very futuristic, modernist feel.
I won't pretend to be an expert on Lumineth Realmlord helmets, but if your own example is papier-mâché over a wooden armature, is it really that hard to believe that there is some kind of fancy Elf magic that makes the helmets lighter than iron or whatever?
2020/04/20 19:36:09
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.43 Sons of Behemat reveal.
You could turn that to say that the japanese had better sense than to expend energy to pile heavy materials high on their helmets. Do the lumineth elves have better sense than to expend magical energy to make their head decorations weigh less?
"Great mage! The forces of Nurgle are breaking through! We need your aid now or all is lost!"
"Hang on a bit, mate. Those guyses hats are slipping down. Bit to the left, bit to the left, whoops, too much left."
A little note in a battletome could make a lot of difference. "Lo, the stonebreakers [or what-have-you] cunningly wrought shapes of mighty kine from hysh-papyrus and powder ground from the mystical substance p'lastr ohf'par'ess to place on their tall, shining helms, to signify their devotion to the great goddess K'larab'elle and strike mortal dread in the hearts of their craven foe."
That could ease the dissatisfaction, just a bit. Will we get anything like that? Unlikely. And in any case we're still left with the look of the things.
Which is dopey.
They're made now. What's done is done. The bits can probably be removed, that's fine. People can like it, despite any jokers talking about 'the list'. That's fine too.* Nobody's gonna tell you what not to buy. But we're still left with the first impression that these dopey-lookin' things went through several steps of design, approval, sculpting, mould-cutting etc. all the way to being shown to the prospective customer. And a lot of prospective customers here think they're dopey-lookin'.
Can the customer, expected to drop at least £30 on these, be allowed to say something about the design that devalues them, in their eyes...?
EnTyme wrote:Exhibit A
... Apparently not.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/20 19:37:28
Vermis wrote: Are you equating papier mache with magic?
Maybe you'd be happier if they were made of straw, since you seem to enjoy making arguments out of them. Seriously dude, people are saying they understand how it is possible to like/dislike them in valid ways and you are just attacking people.
7 Aleguzzlers is 1120 points unless they get any changes within the Battletome.
If we assume the standard 2K army list then that would clock the Gargants in between 400 and 440 points each. I'd not expect them to go any lower than around 400 and up to 500 would be fair I'd wager based on their size. If they are 400 then they easily fit current allies rules too, though with Gotrek already breaking that, anything up to 500 seems fair provided it comes with the restrictions.
So sounds like he's going for 2 Gargants and 7 Aleguzzlers.
I wasn't expecting to need that many maybe he is going for less Mega Gargants.
I’d say he’s likely on running 2 mega gargants in a 2k
Unless they dramatically change the cost of an aleguzzler he’s around 1.2k with those 7.
Big guys likely to be around 400 each in that case.
However, I’d think it more likely to be a 2.5k, so they are around 650 ish each which seems right.
2020/04/21 22:33:55
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.43 Sons of Behemat reveal.
Given the popularity of the knight kit (and the seeming gargant craze going on on twitter), I wonder how fast we'll see new variants if the mega gargants sell well. At the very least, it would be cool to get an upgrade sprue for the current giant kit, given that they only have three "normal" heads.
I'm sort of hoping the mega gargants get some more head options as well (the teaser trailer heads (and weapons for the most part) don't seem to match the heads we've seen, so a few more options seem likely
2020/04/21 22:52:22
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.43 Sons of Behemat reveal.
I wasn't expecting to need that many maybe he is going for less Mega Gargants.
The last time he was excited about an army like this... he showed his triple keeper on twitter before the battletome was released... lets hope this is not the case.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2020/04/22 16:51:01
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.43 Sons of Behemat reveal.
True, but aleguzzlers exist in another army and the whole faction is being expressed as allies, so I expect that particular method of balancing will be less at play. I would expect allegiance to have more to do with objective control and anti-horde. Probably with some mostly-useless bravery/battleshock debuff thrown in.
Given that the Aleguzzler is probably going to get a rules update, as well as changes to how the weapon options work it seems like jumping the gun to start getting it all together like that.
It's also really crazy how, when that model came out, I hated the droopy drawers look. Now? Bah! It's grown on me.
Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!! The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage
2020/04/22 17:35:38
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.43 Sons of Behemat reveal.
Commodus Leitdorf wrote: Given that the Aleguzzler is probably going to get a rules update, as well as changes to how the weapon options work it seems like jumping the gun to start getting it all together like that.
It's also really crazy how, when that model came out, I hated the droopy drawers look. Now? Bah! It's grown on me.
Ben seems privvy to quite a bit of info.
He previously had a triple keeper list and a full steam tank list, both just before the books dropped.
2020/04/22 18:52:54
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.43 Sons of Behemat reveal.
Ben seems privvy to quite a bit of info.
He previously had a triple keeper list and a full steam tank list, both just before the books dropped.
His title is "Product Developer for Age of Sigmar", so...yeah he's "privy to quite a bit of info"?
Also, it's not like it has been hard to predict that people who enjoy certain things will go certain routes. Even before Hedonites and Cities, he was showing off monsters and the like that he's worked on. His Twitter feed of late was full of Mournfangs and Stonehorns.
2020/04/22 19:05:38
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.43 Sons of Behemat reveal.
GaroRobe wrote: Given the popularity of the knight kit (and the seeming gargant craze going on on twitter), I wonder how fast we'll see new variants if the mega gargants sell well. At the very least, it would be cool to get an upgrade sprue for the current giant kit, given that they only have three "normal" heads.
I'm sort of hoping the mega gargants get some more head options as well (the teaser trailer heads (and weapons for the most part) don't seem to match the heads we've seen, so a few more options seem likely
The trailer and the photo heads looked the same to me, as with the weapons.
What are you seeing that’s different?
2020/04/22 22:00:13
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.43 Sons of Behemat reveal.
GaroRobe wrote: Given the popularity of the knight kit (and the seeming gargant craze going on on twitter), I wonder how fast we'll see new variants if the mega gargants sell well. At the very least, it would be cool to get an upgrade sprue for the current giant kit, given that they only have three "normal" heads.
I'm sort of hoping the mega gargants get some more head options as well (the teaser trailer heads (and weapons for the most part) don't seem to match the heads we've seen, so a few more options seem likely
The trailer and the photo heads looked the same to me, as with the weapons.
What are you seeing that’s different?
I mean the animated trailer. Because you could say that it shows off the bearded head, but the krakeneater's head doesn't look the same. And we don't have a giant wearing a metal hat of some sorts. Plus, the weapons are different.
2020/04/22 22:57:10
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.43 Sons of Behemat reveal.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
