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 Azreal13 wrote:
I'm also happy to flee from the mind bending density and to respond to your question with "I'm not sure, I have a Sicaran so I was mostly excited by the Kratos, but as the hull is the basis of several other kits, it still makes absolute sense to plasticise it."

The sic aran question may be which turret options are included. I'd guess the omega and the Arcus, since 5he missile pods and plasma require the least changes to the turret.

Yeah, I'd expect the Venator would need too many alternative parts. Might make sense to just reduce it to a conversion kit as a FW direct thing (if they do conversion kits any more?)

 Dysartes wrote:
Thread title implies a plastic kit, but it wasn't in today's preview, and I haven't seen a mention from anyone who was at the event in person about one.

There's a leaked photo (below) that looks a bit different from the current resin one - and has a spotlight identical to the plastic Deimos-pattern Rhino previewed today.

beast_gts wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
Are all of the marines in the upcoming box going to be the mark VI beakie style?

Yes.

*sigh* not a big fan of the mark VI. Perhaps the other box sets are more my style. I wonder if they're resizing the older armors with the new boxes.

Seems inevitable they will. Maybe there will come a point where they decide to stop making new marines but I'd bet against that possibility.

 Azreal13 wrote:
If anyone is treating rank and file wargame minis like finescale models that might explain the volume of grey plastic scattered on tables the world over. Nobody's ever going to finish an army!

I get you may not want a huge gap or visible seam, but there's really only a small amount of work needed to avoid that, possibly beginning and ending with just being careful.

I'm mainly using it as an example why I don't consider "just throw some poly cement on it" a suitable response to "I don't like that seam line".

Sure, I'm not going to spend hours filling those shoulder seam lines.... that doesn't mean I find their presence acceptable on a kit that GW is likely going to sell for $6USD per model. Compared to, say, a mould line, a seam line is much more painful to fix to the point where it's unnoticeable.

If anything, I find seam lines in prominent places more acceptable on fine scale models, because on fine scale models I'm going to be spending 10's if not 100's of hours on each model anyway, it's not a big deal to have to fix some seam lines. Rank and file wargame miniatures should be as close to flawless so they don't need fixing.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
If anyone is treating rank and file wargame minis like finescale models that might explain the volume of grey plastic scattered on tables the world over. Nobody's ever going to finish an army!

I get you may not want a huge gap or visible seam, but there's really only a small amount of work needed to avoid that, possibly beginning and ending with just being careful.

I'm mainly using it as an example why I don't consider "just throw some poly cement on it" a suitable response to "I don't like that seam line".

Sure, I'm not going to spend hours filling those shoulder seam lines.... that doesn't mean I find their presence acceptable on a kit that GW is likely going to sell for $6USD per model. Compared to, say, a mould line, a seam line is much more painful to fix to the point where it's unnoticeable.

If anything, I find seam lines in prominent places more acceptable on fine scale models, because on fine scale models I'm going to be spending 10's if not 100's of hours on each model anyway, it's not a big deal to have to fix some seam lines. Rank and file wargame miniatures should be as close to flawless so they don't need fixing.

You're not obligated to like it but quoting price per model as some sort of justification for you not liking it is just asinine.

GW had a choice between offering the same strange looking undercut rivets as before or somehow changing the way they were molded for higher visual quality. This time they chose the latter and split the pads in half.
You're welcome to buy 3D printed or resin pads to avoid the extra work just like people previously would have done if they wanted pauldrons with good looking rivets.

 Jack Flask wrote:

You're not obligated to like it but quoting price per model as some sort of justification for you not liking it is just asinine.

GW had a choice between offering the same strange looking undercut rivets as before or somehow changing the way they were molded for higher visual quality. This time they chose the latter and split the pads in half.
You're welcome to buy 3D printed or resin pads to avoid the extra work just like people previously would have done if they wanted pauldrons with good looking rivets.

Time is money and this is supposedly a premium luxury product from the industry leader. It's not "asinine" to quote a price when discussing something that will take time to fix as it's completely reasonable to factor in your own time to the total cost/investment in making a model, unit, or army when cheaper cheaper models from the same company don't require that extra work. It's also reasonable for you to prioritize undercuts and I'd be criticizing him if he were instead telling you to just cut off the badly done rivets with undercuts and sculpt your own out of greenstuff.

 Jack Flask wrote:
You're not obligated to like it but quoting price per model as some sort of justification for you not liking it is just asinine.

Price point sets an expectation. If they were $1 models, what I'd be willing to live with would be different.

Like, what I find acceptable in a Ford is not the same as what I find acceptable in a Mercedes.

I'm not sure why you'd think that's asinine.

GW had a choice between offering the same strange looking undercut rivets as before or somehow changing the way they were molded for higher visual quality. This time they chose the latter and split the pads in half.
You're welcome to buy 3D printed or resin pads to avoid the extra work just like people previously would have done if they wanted pauldrons with good looking rivets.

I think GW probably should just include resin shoulder pads in this rare case. Maybe they could use slide moulding, though not sure if that's economically viable. They have used slide moulds on rare occasions in the past, so I assume they have the capability (though perhaps those rare occasions were outsourced).

That it "will take time to fix" is, at this point, and assumption based on scant information.

We know that the pad comes in two halves, and that on the image that prompted this discussion there is some seam line visible.

But then, there's mold lines all over the shop on that same model, so nothing is indicative of any great care taken in assembly.

The halves are cut in a wave shape, so there's near enough no chance of any serious vertical misalignment, if there's any sort of locator tab to prevent misalignment along the z axis, then there's every chance the seam will be near inviisble when assembled with care and primed.

 Azreal13 wrote:
That it "will take time to fix" is, at this point, and assumption based on scant information.

Scant information and decades of experience building models.

But, yeah, maybe GW will break new ground in invisible join lines.

The halves are cut in a wave shape...

An interesting idea would have been to make it a detail feature, so there's intentionally a panel line there. Though that wouldn't match historical designs of the shoulder pads.

Never mind.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
If anyone is treating rank and file wargame minis like finescale models that might explain the volume of grey plastic scattered on tables the world over. Nobody's ever going to finish an army!

I get you may not want a huge gap or visible seam, but there's really only a small amount of work needed to avoid that, possibly beginning and ending with just being careful.

I'm mainly using it as an example why I don't consider "just throw some poly cement on it" a suitable response to "I don't like that seam line".

Sure, I'm not going to spend hours filling those shoulder seam lines.... that doesn't mean I find their presence acceptable on a kit that GW is likely going to sell for $6USD per model. Compared to, say, a mould line, a seam line is much more painful to fix to the point where it's unnoticeable.

If anything, I find seam lines in prominent places more acceptable on fine scale models, because on fine scale models I'm going to be spending 10's if not 100's of hours on each model anyway, it's not a big deal to have to fix some seam lines. Rank and file wargame miniatures should be as close to flawless so they don't need fixing.

I mean, I know it's not the most exciting thing, but plastic models have certain limitations involving undercuts. If they could get perfectly round studs on the sides (where they'd have to either be on a seam line, or have undercuts) without cutting the pads in half they would have. But you can't do undercuts with plastic. The details would either be sheered off or end up needing to be designed differently. For example here's the old studded shoulder pad with stretched studs near the edge, smaller studs (for easier mold removal) and studs away from the sides of the pad where they'd be perpendicular with the side walls of the mold.


And here's the new ones with larger studs that are perfectly round and are along the edges of the pad where the they'd get stuck in a single peice:


Now does this come with extra work to make them look good with the need to fill in the seam? Yes. But creating model kits is a series of compromises.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Now does this come with extra work to make them look good with the need to fill in the seam? Yes. But creating model kits is a series of compromises.

And what people is saying is they prefer the other compromise instead.

And for others good qualitw studs that"s so integral part of thi mark is priority over bit of time. Permanent quality over bit of time

 Albertorius wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Now does this come with extra work to make them look good with the need to fill in the seam? Yes. But creating model kits is a series of compromises.

And what people is saying is they prefer the other compromise instead.

The main reason I got involved in the discussion because I think this is a good example of an area where rigid adherence to "plastic is the material of the gods!" falls flat.

Those shoulder pads would work perfectly in resin, you can have it as one part, have the undercuts, and shift the mould line to somewhere that it's easy to clean up.

Once you get out of the realm of GW, using different materials for different parts of a kit become more common.

There's also slide moulding, where instead of having a 2 part mould it'll have multiple parts that slide out from different directions, so that way you can get detail on orthogonal planes. GW have done slide moulds in the past, so I assume they have the capability. Other manufacturers do slide moulds, I think Bandai and Tamiya have used slide moulds on some of their models.

Or the other option I mentioned, actually put an intentional panel line there so that the seam line blends into the panel line. The only downside I can see to doing that is that it wouldn't match previous models, but I think it'd be a good compromise.

Another one would be having separate studs, though I haven't come up with a good way of doing that wouldn't be fiddly, maybe having the studs coming through from the back somehow.

Seems they chose a compromise. It’s not ideal. It’s also not the worst mould line or join line ever seen on a mini. A lot of teeth gnashing for a very small thing. I guess it must mean the rest of the release looks good to people and THIS is the one whiny nitpick they’re deciding to write essays about this week?

Whatever the case, the decision has been made, the series cut and everyone will have to deal with it if they want the minis. Or buy another Mk if it irks you a lot. Loads of options.

I guess the mould like on the beakie helmets could be the greater issue - when the forms are worn out and mould lines get stronger on the casted sprues and makes it more difficult to cleaned up.

For the "purists", luckily we still have an option:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-FI/Legion-MkV-Heresy-Armour-2016

..of paying through the nose for resin pauldrons

I would have actually loved it if the studs would have been separate, and you'd have to glue them on to a bare shoulderpad with indented slots in it. Would have been crazy cool for converters! But not seeing that for rank & file models, characters like Dom. Zephon perhaps..

I think many here are missing how incredibly easy it is to brush a seam like that away with the right plastic glue. I use “Same Stuff” from Micro-Mark. You just brush glue across the gap, at a 90 degree angle to the seam, until the seam is gone.

After brushing with plastic glue and priming, this will be completely invisible. I’ve fixed more difficult seams with this technique (the hair on the heads of the beastmen in Blackstone Fortress comes to mind)

There is no scraping or sanding, and it takes about a minute to do one model. You can’t do this over fine detail because the glue will destroy that, but these are smooth surfaces. I’m also assuming that the fit of two halves is near perfect, but for 2022 GW models that’s not a stretch.

 l0k1 wrote:

*sigh* not a big fan of the mark VI. Perhaps the other box sets are more my style. I wonder if they're resizing the older armors with the new boxes.

Considering the MkVI isn't a different scale and that has been shown multiple times in the last day, the armours being different scales isn't a concern.

 tauist wrote:
For the "purists", luckily we still have an option:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-FI/Legion-MkV-Heresy-Armour-2016

..of paying through the nose for resin pauldrons

I would have actually loved it if the studs would have been separate, and you'd have to glue them on to a bare shoulderpad with indented slots in it. Would have been crazy cool for converters! But not seeing that for rank & file models, characters like Dom. Zephon perhaps..

Oh, there's more options than that one, not to worry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RobertDD wrote:
I think many here are missing how incredibly easy it is to brush a seam like that away with the right plastic glue. I use “Same Stuff” from Micro-Mark. You just brush glue across the gap, at a 90 degree angle to the seam, until the seam is gone.

Sure, because for most of us, this is our first rodeo.[/s]

I'm a bit disappointed how small and dainty the beakies look. I was hoping a bit more bulk. Has there been any pics of the sprues?

Also the tanks look great, but there is no Predator?

 Crimson wrote:
Also the tanks look great, but there is no Predator?

Predator & Vindicator are rumoured, but we've not seen them yet.

 Crimson wrote:
I'm a bit disappointed how small and dainty the beakies look. I was hoping a bit more bulk.

Just do what everyone else seems to be doing and buy tortuga marines

The new MK6 also sound like they have some irritating design decisions, like splitting the studded shoulder pads into two pieces that join down the middle. I'm sure that will be an absolute blast to assemble with no visible seam and a smooth finish.

RobertDD wrote:
I think many here are missing how incredibly easy it is to brush a seam like that away with the right plastic glue. I use “Same Stuff” from Micro-Mark. You just brush glue across the gap, at a 90 degree angle to the seam, until the seam is gone.

After brushing with plastic glue and priming, this will be completely invisible. I’ve fixed more difficult seams with this technique (the hair on the heads of the beastmen in Blackstone Fortress comes to mind)

There is no scraping or sanding, and it takes about a minute to do one model. You can’t do this over fine detail because the glue will destroy that, but these are smooth surfaces. I’m also assuming that the fit of two halves is near perfect, but for 2022 GW models that’s not a stretch.

Personally if some Tamiya Thin brushed across the seam doesn't do it I was thinking some home made sprue too could work but I usually save that for if things are really gapped.

 Albertorius wrote:

RobertDD wrote:
I think many here are missing how incredibly easy it is to brush a seam like that away with the right plastic glue. I use “Same Stuff” from Micro-Mark. You just brush glue across the gap, at a 90 degree angle to the seam, until the seam is gone.

Sure, because for most of us, this is our first rodeo.[/s]

I think some people have different definitions of "completely invisible"

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
Just do what everyone else seems to be doing and buy tortuga marines

The new MK6 also sound like they have some irritating design decisions, like splitting the studded shoulder pads into two pieces that join down the middle. I'm sure that will be an absolute blast to assemble with no visible seam and a smooth finish.

I'm not sure exactly where you're getting that second part from considering the MkVI kit doesn't have any indication for that being true. The Zephon model does have that but there's no sign of a split on the regular kit.

The real test of the mkvi scale will be seeing them compared to the traitor Guard in the new Killteam, and ofc the Sororitas.

 Gert wrote:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
Just do what everyone else seems to be doing and buy tortuga marines

The new MK6 also sound like they have some irritating design decisions, like splitting the studded shoulder pads into two pieces that join down the middle. I'm sure that will be an absolute blast to assemble with no visible seam and a smooth finish.

I'm not sure exactly where you're getting that second part from considering the MkVI kit doesn't have any indication for that being true. The Zephon model does have that but there's no sign of a split on the regular kit.

We’ve seen the sprues and assembled models. There’s a split.