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 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Nice. But, why no melee weapons?

Gotta leave something for Forge World to do…

Actually... do they?
So many huge or one-off projects that used to be part of FW's domain are just being done by the main studio now. Think of the bigger-scale giants and greater daemons that used to be done by FW that are now just 'normal' models. As well as rare and esoteric tanks and LoW that are just everyday plastic kits.

Really, the most justifiable role for FW now is small resin bits like shoulder pads and hats that would be split between 1/18th of the player base, and there just likely isn't demand for a large 'print run.'


---
Very cool model, though.

Its getting to the point that they don't need to make the 'also for 40k' disclaimer anymore. All the vehicles are. Makes me think a sea-change is coming for 40k (and it isn't squatting old marines).

Voss wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Nice. But, why no melee weapons?

Gotta leave something for Forge World to do…

Actually... do they?
So many huge or one-off projects that used to be part of FW's domain are just being done by the main studio now. Think of the bigger-scale giants and greater daemons that used to be done by FW that are now just 'normal' models. As well as rare and esoteric tanks and LoW that are just everyday plastic kits.

Really, the most justifiable role for FW now is small resin bits like shoulder pads and hats that would be split between 1/18th of the player base, and there just likely isn't demand for a large 'print run.'

could be why the kit was done the way it was, maybe sales info suggested melee options for Levi's were the least popular choice to order?

BrianDavion wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Nice. But, why no melee weapons?

Gotta leave something for Forge World to do…

Actually... do they?
So many huge or one-off projects that used to be part of FW's domain are just being done by the main studio now. Think of the bigger-scale giants and greater daemons that used to be done by FW that are now just 'normal' models. As well as rare and esoteric tanks and LoW that are just everyday plastic kits.

Really, the most justifiable role for FW now is small resin bits like shoulder pads and hats that would be split between 1/18th of the player base, and there just likely isn't demand for a large 'print run.'

could be why the kit was done the way it was, maybe sales info suggested melee options for Levi's were the least popular choice to order?

Yeah but that's because min-maxers favour ranged options, it's got nothing to do with the unit's lore.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Gotta leave something for Forge World to do…

More likely that HH is getting the not-so-consumer-friendly Adeptus Titanicus approach to portioning out sprues.

I mean they appear to be already doing it with the new plastic Contemptor.

Usable in 40k, plastic kit. Hoping they throw them into the rumored 9.5 SM book, and save space by merging a lot of spare datasheets like Gravis captains and assault and normal intercessors.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Usable in 40k, plastic kit. Hoping they throw them into the rumored 9.5 SM book, and save space by merging a lot of spare datasheets like Gravis captains and assault and normal intercessors.

It's going to be weird when the Firstborn eventually get the axe, since by that time Marine armies will consist of honored 30k relics, the brand new hotness from Belisarius CawlMart and nothing in between. :-P

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Usable in 40k, plastic kit. Hoping they throw them into the rumored 9.5 SM book, and save space by merging a lot of spare datasheets like Gravis captains and assault and normal intercessors.

It's going to be weird when the Firstborn eventually get the axe, since by that time Marine armies will consist of honored 30k relics, the brand new hotness from Belisarius CawlMart and nothing in between. :-P

I don't think you need to spend much energy worrying about something that *might* happen in 2040 right now.

Eh, by now I see more feasible that they simply merge the units back and there's no more "primaris" or "regular marine" and just marines once again.

God knows they need a unit prune.

 Togusa wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Usable in 40k, plastic kit. Hoping they throw them into the rumored 9.5 SM book, and save space by merging a lot of spare datasheets like Gravis captains and assault and normal intercessors.

It's going to be weird when the Firstborn eventually get the axe, since by that time Marine armies will consist of honored 30k relics, the brand new hotness from Belisarius CawlMart and nothing in between. :-P

I don't think you need to spend much energy worrying about something that *might* happen in 2040 right now.

...Wow, I'd actually forgotten the conspiracy theory about Space Marines being squatted out of 40k. It's so dead and buried to me that when I read that post I assumed the axe he was talking about must be a physical axe some unit or other has but doesn't have rules for or something like that.

 Albertorius wrote:
Eh, by now I see more feasible that they simply merge the units back and there's no more "primaris" or "regular marine" and just marines once again.

God knows they need a unit prune.

Easiest way to do that is roll Tactical Marine options into the Intercessor profile. Bam, best of both worlds.

 Togusa wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

It's going to be weird when the Firstborn eventually get the axe, since by that time Marine armies will consist of honored 30k relics, the brand new hotness from Belisarius CawlMart and nothing in between. :-P

I don't think you need to spend much energy worrying about something that *might* happen in 2040 right now.

I was being facetious, but I see I should have festooned by post with additional emoticons to make the sentiment crystal clear.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

It's going to be weird when the Firstborn eventually get the axe, since by that time Marine armies will consist of honored 30k relics, the brand new hotness from Belisarius CawlMart and nothing in between. :-P

I don't think you need to spend much energy worrying about something that *might* happen in 2040 right now.

I was being facetious, but I see I should have festooned by post with additional emoticons to make the sentiment crystal clear.

I'm only mildly poking at you about it. Who knows what they'll do. I know a guy who is convinced that they're going to make a 40K classic edition ruleset with no primaris allowed.

 Togusa wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

It's going to be weird when the Firstborn eventually get the axe, since by that time Marine armies will consist of honored 30k relics, the brand new hotness from Belisarius CawlMart and nothing in between. :-P

I don't think you need to spend much energy worrying about something that *might* happen in 2040 right now.

I was being facetious, but I see I should have festooned by post with additional emoticons to make the sentiment crystal clear.

I'm only mildly poking at you about it. Who knows what they'll do. I know a guy who is convinced that they're going to make a 40K classic edition ruleset with no primaris allowed.

You should tell him about this Horus Heresy thing I keep hearing about.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Gotta leave something for Forge World to do…

More likely that HH is getting the not-so-consumer-friendly Adeptus Titanicus approach to portioning out sprues.

I mean they appear to be already doing it with the new plastic Contemptor.

The joys of owning a 3D printer.

Hmm putting the plastic HH kits revealed/leaked so far into the SM dex would add four new data slates(Spartan, Kratos, Sicaran, Leviathan) and potentially expand several others(Contemptor, Predator, Rhino and possibly adding new heavy and special weapons to firstborn squads). So not a huge increase given the books already sizeable page count. But I'd be very surprised if there wasn't more in the pipeline.

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Hmm putting the plastic HH kits revealed/leaked so far into the SM dex would add four new data slates(Spartan, Kratos, Sicaran, Leviathan) and potentially expand several others(Contemptor, Predator, Rhino and possibly adding new heavy and special weapons to firstborn squads). So not a huge increase given the books already sizeable page count. But I'd be very surprised if there wasn't more in the pipeline.

They could easily free up some space by merging unit entries and loosening a few options. Predators, Gladiators, and Storm Speeders could easily be reduced from 8 datasheets to 3. Making Venerable an upgrade rather than a specific unit entry would make a lot of sense with adding 2 new dreadnought kits. Terminators, assault terminators, and relic terminators could be merged into one entry with a bit of work to have a choice on indomitus, cataphractii, or tartarus which adjust stats and lock or unlock weapon options.

A lot of HQs could be merged entries, and would benefit from less rigid wargear sets. How much easier would the primaris captain entry be if it was just a base heavy bolt pistol, mc sword and mc bolt rifle, then can swap the sword for chainsword or fist, and the bolt rifle for a variant, a carbine, a variety of special pistols, or a relic shield. Done.

Well except weapon changes would need to be fixed so no combination not allowed by 1 kit alone. No point hoping for what gw won't do anyway

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Hmm putting the plastic HH kits revealed/leaked so far into the SM dex would add four new data slates(Spartan, Kratos, Sicaran, Leviathan) and potentially expand several others(Contemptor, Predator, Rhino and possibly adding new heavy and special weapons to firstborn squads). So not a huge increase given the books already sizeable page count. But I'd be very surprised if there wasn't more in the pipeline.

I don't think they will add rotor cannons and volkite to Firstborn Tacticals or whatever. Those units already have a very well saturated list of weapon options, after all, with options not available to their 30k equivalents (multi-melta, grav-cannon and grav-gun). Likewise, options like pintle-mounted heavy weapons on the Deimos Rhino, and the various arm and turret weapons exclusive to 30k for Contemptors and Predators should stay that way.

We got to draw the line somewhere, as much as I'd love for an excuse to buy an allied Thallax cohort for my Firstborn

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Hmm putting the plastic HH kits revealed/leaked so far into the SM dex would add four new data slates(Spartan, Kratos, Sicaran, Leviathan) and potentially expand several others(Contemptor, Predator, Rhino and possibly adding new heavy and special weapons to firstborn squads). So not a huge increase given the books already sizeable page count. But I'd be very surprised if there wasn't more in the pipeline.

They could easily free up some space by merging unit entries and loosening a few options. Predators, Gladiators, and Storm Speeders could easily be reduced from 8 datasheets to 3. Making Venerable an upgrade rather than a specific unit entry would make a lot of sense with adding 2 new dreadnought kits. Terminators, assault terminators, and relic terminators could be merged into one entry with a bit of work to have a choice on indomitus, cataphractii, or tartarus which adjust stats and lock or unlock weapon options.

A lot of HQs could be merged entries, and would benefit from less rigid wargear sets. How much easier would the primaris captain entry be if it was just a base heavy bolt pistol, mc sword and mc bolt rifle, then can swap the sword for chainsword or fist, and the bolt rifle for a variant, a carbine, a variety of special pistols, or a relic shield. Done.

Rule of 3 is the main reason why they have so many of those datasheets split up.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Hmm putting the plastic HH kits revealed/leaked so far into the SM dex would add four new data slates(Spartan, Kratos, Sicaran, Leviathan) and potentially expand several others(Contemptor, Predator, Rhino and possibly adding new heavy and special weapons to firstborn squads). So not a huge increase given the books already sizeable page count. But I'd be very surprised if there wasn't more in the pipeline.

They could easily free up some space by merging unit entries and loosening a few options. Predators, Gladiators, and Storm Speeders could easily be reduced from 8 datasheets to 3. Making Venerable an upgrade rather than a specific unit entry would make a lot of sense with adding 2 new dreadnought kits. Terminators, assault terminators, and relic terminators could be merged into one entry with a bit of work to have a choice on indomitus, cataphractii, or tartarus which adjust stats and lock or unlock weapon options.

A lot of HQs could be merged entries, and would benefit from less rigid wargear sets. How much easier would the primaris captain entry be if it was just a base heavy bolt pistol, mc sword and mc bolt rifle, then can swap the sword for chainsword or fist, and the bolt rifle for a variant, a carbine, a variety of special pistols, or a relic shield. Done.

Unfortunately 9th edition datasheets aren't reasonable like that. Can't have rules that allow a combination of weapons that's not actually sold and would need to cut a hand off a holy citadel plastic model.

Didn't GE say that this box wasn't limited? My flgs told me that they tried to get one today and the reply was that it's sold out.

I held for a bit because I had just ordered KT morochi, thinking that the HH box would be available for some time...

 Destrado wrote:
Didn't GE say that this box wasn't limited? My flgs told me that they tried to get one today and the reply was that it's sold out.

I held for a bit because I had just ordered KT morochi, thinking that the HH box would be available for some time...

It will be available for some time. That doesn't mean they haven't hit the limits of the initial production run. (Having excess orders that they can't fulfill in a timely fashion isn't good).

Voss wrote:

 Destrado wrote:
Didn't GE say that this box wasn't limited? My flgs told me that they tried to get one today and the reply was that it's sold out.

I held for a bit because I had just ordered KT morochi, thinking that the HH box would be available for some time...

It will be available for some time. That doesn't mean they haven't hit the limits of the initial production run. (Having excess orders that they can't fulfill in a timely fashion isn't good).

Sure hope so, fingers crossed it's not another cursed city.

They have called launch box which so far has been limited. So i won't consider possibility of cheaper(but less value) starter sets like 40k/aos later being zero.

 Destrado wrote:
Didn't GE say that this box wasn't limited? My flgs told me that they tried to get one today and the reply was that it's sold out.

I held for a bit because I had just ordered KT morochi, thinking that the HH box would be available for some time...

Any stores taking orders *before* the window starts are gambling on their stock allocation and setting people up for disappointment. It's not "sold out" anywhere because it isn't on sale. My guess is your local store have taken a bunch of peoples' money and are now worrying about fulfilling. I'd shop somewhere else tbh

Billicus wrote:

 Destrado wrote:
Didn't GE say that this box wasn't limited? My flgs told me that they tried to get one today and the reply was that it's sold out.

I held for a bit because I had just ordered KT morochi, thinking that the HH box would be available for some time...

Any stores taking orders *before* the window starts are gambling on their stock allocation and setting people up for disappointment. It's not "sold out" anywhere because it isn't on sale. My guess is your local store have taken a bunch of peoples' money and are now worrying about fulfilling. I'd shop somewhere else tbh

At least in America, most store need to tell their sales person their stock requests before the "window" opens. Our local stores had to inform their rep of how many they need by this past Tuesday or not have any/enough. They haven't taken money, but they HAVE taken orders so they know how many boxes they need to order.

Yeah, taking an interest list is fine, taking *orders* isn't fine

Billicus wrote:
Yeah, taking an interest list is fine, taking *orders* isn't fine

Orders doesn't mean they're paid for, just that those specific boxes are reserved for those people.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Billicus wrote:

 Destrado wrote:
Didn't GE say that this box wasn't limited? My flgs told me that they tried to get one today and the reply was that it's sold out.

I held for a bit because I had just ordered KT morochi, thinking that the HH box would be available for some time...

Any stores taking orders *before* the window starts are gambling on their stock allocation and setting people up for disappointment. It's not "sold out" anywhere because it isn't on sale. My guess is your local store have taken a bunch of peoples' money and are now worrying about fulfilling. I'd shop somewhere else tbh

At least in America, most store need to tell their sales person their stock requests before the "window" opens. Our local stores had to inform their rep of how many they need by this past Tuesday or not have any/enough. They haven't taken money, but they HAVE taken orders so they know how many boxes they need to order.

Same for ours, FLGS had to have their numbers in to the rep by 3PM Wednesday.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Billicus wrote:

 Destrado wrote:
Didn't GE say that this box wasn't limited? My flgs told me that they tried to get one today and the reply was that it's sold out.

I held for a bit because I had just ordered KT morochi, thinking that the HH box would be available for some time...

Any stores taking orders *before* the window starts are gambling on their stock allocation and setting people up for disappointment. It's not "sold out" anywhere because it isn't on sale. My guess is your local store have taken a bunch of peoples' money and are now worrying about fulfilling. I'd shop somewhere else tbh

Maybe not. When my local store tried to get theirs, they were only allotted 4 copies and were told by their rep that the box set was nearly sold out entirely for store allocations. Tomorrow is going to be interesting because I suspect this box set is going to sell WAY above expectations and there will be a lot of unhappy people who weren't able to snag one.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Billicus wrote:

 Destrado wrote:
Didn't GE say that this box wasn't limited? My flgs told me that they tried to get one today and the reply was that it's sold out.

I held for a bit because I had just ordered KT morochi, thinking that the HH box would be available for some time...

Any stores taking orders *before* the window starts are gambling on their stock allocation and setting people up for disappointment. It's not "sold out" anywhere because it isn't on sale. My guess is your local store have taken a bunch of peoples' money and are now worrying about fulfilling. I'd shop somewhere else tbh

At least in America, most store need to tell their sales person their stock requests before the "window" opens. Our local stores had to inform their rep of how many they need by this past Tuesday or not have any/enough. They haven't taken money, but they HAVE taken orders so they know how many boxes they need to order.

Talked to my local store (and "ordered" my box) here in Sweden yesterday. Same issue there, they needed to get their orders in a week before GW's pre-order window starts, so I'm lucky they had ordered enough.