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I've never bothered with Hand sanitizer. I do have several small bottles around but I don't know how old they are. My mom uses it on her hands when eating at restaurants prior to eating. I've always thought she was a bit of a clean freak. I wash my hands several times a day, mostly because of working outside and with animals, chickens, goats and rabbets. I think one thing I should do that I don't do enough is wash or wipe down thing that I touch frequently. Mouse and Keyboard, glasses, phone, door handles.
I only seem to get sick every other year for about 3 days. Usually after going out to a game shop where some, insert derogatory term of your choice here, Has come back into the shop just after getting over what ever affliction they just got over. Sure they're "not sick anymore" but they still spread that what ever it is. Just something to think about, maybe give your self a few days after getting well before going back out to roll dice.
I do think being so far away from people had both hurt and helped my health. I am not exposed to the cloud of pestilence those plague carriers are dragging around, which is nice but it does mean it has hit me harder when it happens.
We don't consider ourselves preppers really we just keep a lot of stuff on hand because of the reality of hurricanes and extended power outages.
I don't think there is any shame in having 30 to 60 days worth of food on hand, you gotta eat. Oh, and if you do decide to "prepp" and really stock up don't just go out and buy rice and beans if you don't eat those very much or don't like them or just don't know how to cook them. Buy food you will actually eat. I like beans some time and have had a difficult time with dried beans until this year, turns out there is such a thing as beans that are too old. But dad gave us a rice cooker for Christmas and it is amazing and will cook dried beans without a presoak in about 2 to 3 hours. something to look into if your going the dried beans rout.
I really wish original formula ripped fuel was still on the market, for medicinal purposes. (Much like a bottle of Jagermeister. )

Hand sanitiser needs to have a very high alcohol content to be effective anyway, is what I have read. Soap and water is better (though obviously sanitiser is better than nothing).

My school is closed for a week now, as there was a case. Apparently the person is doing okay.
Waiitng to see if I have to teach through video conferencing or what.

I've heard that the unit I live on has had 3 cases! but nothing else, so thats nice ha.

I'm trying to stay pretty laissez faire about the whole thing. I dont really think its going to take me out if I catch it, I'm strong and healthy with no underlying issues, as is my Wife and daughter. my Wife is pregnant but apparently the virus is not really dangerous to pregnant women or even newborns.. So I'm not worried.

I'm more worried for my granparents. my grandad has lots of general age related health issues. but then he himself sometimes admits that he thinks it'll be his time soon, so maybe he wont be worried either.. I cant say.

I think it is clear that older people are much more at risk. I won't be visiting my mother in law for a bit, though she is alone right now.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
I've heard that the unit I live on has had 3 cases! but nothing else, so thats nice ha.

I'm trying to stay pretty laissez faire about the whole thing. I dont really think its going to take me out if I catch it, I'm strong and healthy with no underlying issues, as is my Wife and daughter. my Wife is pregnant but apparently the virus is not really dangerous to pregnant women or even newborns.. So I'm not worried.

I'm more worried for my granparents. my grandad has lots of general age related health issues. but then he himself sometimes admits that he thinks it'll be his time soon, so maybe he wont be worried either.. I cant say.

Your right to be cautious in regards the elderly as it is they who are at the greatest risk from the virus, especially if it causes them to get pneumonia, fortunately your wife and child are almost guaranteed to be fine as is yourself.

Remember though even if the elderly catch it roughly 7 out of 8 will recover with current statistics implying 13 -15 % of over 80's are likely to die. But in the western world at the moment these statistics as far as I can tell are perhaps less.

Screw going on a cruise ship though.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
I'm trying to stay pretty laissez faire about the whole thing.

Heh, I get it.

 Orlanth wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
8 cases confirmed in Slovenia so far, all of them people going YOLO and knowingly travelling to/through hotspots, 3 of them doctors. One of them came from Italy and went straight to work, came into contact with 40 patients, his entire hospital is shut down now. We have nothing to fear but the sheer stupidity of humans

The thread cant have it both ways. We have had ten pages of accusations of 'alarmists' and 'scaremongering' so it is to be expected for people to YOLO. Most of Dakka knew no better, just watch people pretend they didnt have their prior positions in the next few days as the truth sinks in.
Does everyone get it yet. COVID-19 is a problem, and no, that is not scaremongering.


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 Kilkrazy wrote:
I was amused to read a comment from a Mumsnet post which said something like "I'm a prepper so I bought loads of TP."

No you're not. If you really were a prepper you wouldn't need to buy anything because the apocalypse you were supposedly preparing for has now arrived and you're ready.

Fortunately there is still gin.

Yes and no. There are different levels of prepper. Very very few people can prep for anything (we can count out zombies etc, just the masin threats in 'everything'). It takes a lot of resources and locational requirements to begin this. Then those who can be relatively well prepped cant buy in everything. However those preppers will have few needs to rush buy. I dont consider myself a traditional prepper, more like a limited prepper so I got 'caught out' with hand sanitiser, but I had toilet roll, and also I was clued up enough to recognise the trends as they occured so I got extra toilet roll and some hand sanitiser.
Let us take a look at COVID-19 prepping in the UK so far: hand sanitiser, toilet roll and baked beans. I would have called only one of those three. However I have some good general prepping.

Yes the woman in Mumsnet is a prepper, as 1) she managed to actually get the toilet paper 2) she is aware of the issue. Some people aren't even aware enough to become panic buyers, and most panic buyers failed to aquire stocks.

I have been a prepper now for about 18 months, and I do not feel vindicated. As I mentioned on the UK prepper topic The conscientious prepper desires to be proven wrong. Sadly I was not.

I do feel the mainstream media are blowing the whole thing a tad out of proportion. Yes, COVID-19 is a problem, but the current draconic anti-virus measures that are currently being taken are purely due to the fact that COVID-19 is so fething contagious, not because it's so deadly. Authorities want to prevent the essential infrastructure of the world (food, energy, medical care, police etc.) from temporarily collapsing because everyone is sick at home. If COVID-19 would've had a R0 (how many people someone who carries COVID-19 infects on average) of 1 or less no one would've given a gak about it with it's current mortality rate. The problem is that COVID-19's R0 is about 2.5-4.0 I believe, meaning that there's a realistic chance essential infrastructure collapses for a time if the virus is given free reign. If you are a healthy person under 60, you do NOT have to worry abouit COVID-19 posing a serious health risk to you. I feel the mainstream media are failing to bring this point across well enough, although maybe they're doing it to prevent people from becoming complacent. Yes, it's good to be careful and pay extra attention to hygiëne but panicking is not neccessary. Things like panic buying (and panicking in general) and hoarding are only counterproductive right now.

Personally I'm much more stressed out by the impact on my personal life of the potential anti-virus measures (In the Netherlands the reaction has been surprisingly level-headed up till now) could have than that I'm afraid of the virus itself (I'm a healthy person in his early 30s so I don't see why I would end up in a hospital or even die) and I feel that that isn't taken into account enough in the response to COVID-19. Everyone is yapping on about mortality rates (quite unimpressive) and economic damage (why should I care if stock markets lose $1000 billion in illusory money) but no one talks about the psychological impact of completely isolating yourself from the rest of the world for 2 weeks (even having to isolate yourself from your spouse and children living in the same house) if you've caught COVID-19 or having to think "should I wash my hands after this?" after every single thing that you do.

Interesting point of view, which I will cover in sequence.

Pandabeer wrote:

I do feel the mainstream media are blowing the whole thing a tad out of proportion. Yes, COVID-19 is a problem, but the current draconic anti-virus measures that are currently being taken are purely due to the fact that COVID-19 is so fething contagious, not because it's so deadly. Authorities want to prevent the essential infrastructure of the world (food, energy, medical care, police etc.) from temporarily collapsing because everyone is sick at home. If COVID-19 would've had a R0 (how many people someone who carries COVID-19 infects on average) of 1 or less no one would've given a gak about it with it's current mortality rate. The problem is that COVID-19's R0 is about 2.5-4.0 I believe, meaning that there's a realistic chance essential infrastructure collapses for a time if the virus is given free reign.

It is not only the R0 which is a problem, but the fact that you can be reinfected shortly after the virus has already run its course and likely remain infectious throughout, the long incubation period (which is a major factor of the R0, but also of containment logistics), and that the virus appears to be mutating rapidly.

Pandabeer wrote:

If you are a healthy person under 60, you do NOT have to worry abouit COVID-19 posing a serious health risk to you. I feel the mainstream media are failing to bring this point across well enough, although maybe they're doing it to prevent people from becoming complacent. Yes, it's good to be careful and pay extra attention to hygiëne but panicking is not neccessary. Things like panic buying (and panicking in general) and hoarding are only counterproductive right now.

While this is not what you are currently thinking it means, I will say that up front to be fair to you. However what your comment actual reads is, "I'm alright Jack, if it wont kill me it's not a problem". Sorry this is wrong. It might not kill a young healthy person, but it will kill a lot of people who are not. It will disproportionately effect the elderly, those with underlying health conditions, the homeless and the destitute. I have no sources on how this effects infants, and pregnant or nursing mothers. I will grant you the benefit of the doubt in acknowledging those people do actually matter.

Pandabeer wrote:

Personally I'm much more stressed out by the impact on my personal life of the potential anti-virus measures (In the Netherlands the reaction has been surprisingly level-headed up till now) could have than that I'm afraid of the virus itself (I'm a healthy person in his early 30s so I don't see why I would end up in a hospital or even die) and I feel that that isn't taken into account enough in the response to COVID-19.

I hope I haven't given you too much credit in my preceding comment. Please tell us you are not a complete monsterous selfish c-word who doesn't care who dies so long as he doesn't have his life inconvenienced. You are unlikely to out yourself this easily if you were.
No, I think you haven't grasped how horrible the situation is because you can't face how horrible it is quite just yet, but underneath you are a decent enough guy who will realise that it can be a serious life-threat to a lot of other people, and some things have to change to minimise risk to them..

Pandabeer wrote:

Everyone is yapping on about mortality rates (quite unimpressive) and economic damage (why should I care if stock markets lose $1000 billion in illusory money)

Agree with you on the stock market aspect. Those feths need to get real. As for mortality rates, we have conflicting data, which points towards multiple strains of the bug. Though with the press being what it is, I would be slow to confirm anything without professional bodies pointing the way.

Pandabeer wrote:

but no one talks about the psychological impact of completely isolating yourself from the rest of the world for 2 weeks (even having to isolate yourself from your spouse and children living in the same house) if you've caught COVID-19 or having to think "should I wash my hands after this?" after every single thing that you do.

Ultimately that is first world problems level of issue. If you catch it, report it and self isolate, have a bad fortnight then carry on life. This much is true for the majority, and there is no cause for panic, only precaution. Even if you are sickly or elderly or both, your chances are still good, especially with western medicine.
That being said...
To be aware of occasional plagues is something modern Africans just have to live with, it doesn't effect us in Europe and America. Instead its something we see on social media or on TV as something that only happens over there. We read that some brown people died of ebola, then turn to the sports news with greater attention. Now it is at our door. There are runs on the shops, there are some deaths in our own hospitals and large scale quarantine of civilised places. Hopefully this rude awakening will be a silver lining to the cloud of infection: We have no inherent right to greater security from forces of nature than the average African, we merely assume we do.
Our ancestors faced far worse, so I am sure once we de-snowflake we will rise to the challenge.

It is easy to dismiss the market losses, unless you happen to rely on funds from a 401k in your retirement, or depend on it to be able to retire in the near future. Many pension plans rely on investment returns too.

It ain't just 'rich' folks who are gonna get bit by this.

 CptJake wrote:
It is easy to dismiss the market losses, unless you happen to rely on funds from a 401k in your retirement, or depend on it to be able to retire in the near future. Many pension plans rely on investment returns too.

It ain't just 'rich' folks who are gonna get bit by this.

Ok. I accept that. However its the rich swapping around their funds like a guy walking on hot coals that fuel that problem. Coronavirus will hit certain industries hard. Shares in cruise lines are going to fall, but the stocks that people rely on should hold, however they possibly wont because of greedy c-words and their 'market panic'.

In normal times a fall in the price of oil would be good news for everyone else, thanks to cheaper fuel and power reducing prices across the board.

Is there any connexion between oil price drop and Coronavirus? I can't see one. Tourism and travel companies will be hurt badly, businesses surrounding mass venues like sports teams may also be harmed, but I don't see how oil prices are a relevant factor.
Anyone explain this one to me please?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
In normal times a fall in the price of oil would be good news for everyone else, thanks to cheaper fuel and power reducing prices across the board.

Not sure that is actually the case, especially from a UK perspective.
If oil prices drop prices at the pump stay the same, however when price normalises back to what it was that is a de facto current price rise, so pump price also goes up.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
In normal times a fall in the price of oil would be good news for everyone else, thanks to cheaper fuel and power reducing prices across the board.

Until you get laid off because your company needs to lay off people as their exports to countries depending on oil price went down the pummel.

Virus is definitely blown out of proportion. It is just as dangerous as seasonal flu on steroids. Nothing too special. Furthermore, we do not know anything about it, not even its death rate. It is very likely that there are many cases of Corona virus which symptoms are mild and go unnoticed, but that is not reflected in statistics.

Here is predicted deadliness of this disease:


There are far worse diseases which I would be afraid to get sick like polio.

The problem with coronavirus is the combination of two of its primary elements, namely (i) the high contagion level, and (ii) the relatively high (about 2.5%) mortality rate.

It won't be the end of the world if 2.5% of the population die. But that's a good hundred and fifty million or so people dead if it has free reign across the globe. To put it into perspective, that's roughly double the WW2 death statistic.

No, I'm sure a lot of us have an elderly loved one who won't be around anymore if this thing succeeds in breaking loose. That's what they're fighting to prevent. Not a temporary dip in economic activity or to stop people getting ill with it generally. It's because we all have a parent/granny somewhere who probably won't make it through if quarantine fails.

 Ketara wrote:
The problem with coronavirus is the combination of two of its primary elements, namely (i) the high contagion level, and (ii) the relatively high (about 2.5%) mortality rate.

It won't be the end of the world if 2.5% of the population die. But that's a good hundred and fifty million or so people dead if it has free reign across the globe. To put it into perspective, that's roughly double the WW2 death statistic.

No, I'm sure a lot of us have an elderly loved one who won't be around anymore if this thing succeeds in breaking loose. That's what they're fighting to prevent. Not a temporary dip in economic activity or to stop people getting ill with it generally. It's because we all have a parent/granny somewhere who probably won't make it through if quarantine fails.

Exactly, good point although many of us should be fine ,we all know elderly or infirm people, even if you don't I would like to think we had a shred of deceny and were more concerned for them than poor me and my 2 week isolation, or even petrol prices (which are falling due to less flights and opec not reducing output thus excess oil on market) and lack of toilet roll.

I work in a high dependency unit and although not seen any coronvirus yet seeing anyone in respiratory distress is not something to be dismissed lightly.

I hope the impact of this can be limited.

There is, pretty famously, a vaccine for polio.

The issue is that this is a new disease and very contagious, so people who need acute treatment will be in trouble if we do not slow the spread and the hospitals are overwhelmed with too many patients at once.
It looks likely that most people who are susceptible will get it, but we want to space that out so that all the acute cases get the care they need. For most healthy people, it will be a bad week or two, but for a significant chunk it is more serious.

Being blase about it because you are in a low risk group is a bit selfish in my opinion. We are careful on behalf of others.

Well said, Da Boss.

We have a social duty to each other to try and delay the spread.

China is sufficiently good at locking up and oppressing people on a scale of millions at a time that I don't doubt they'll get a grip on it (it looks like they might have done already). Meanwhile, Italy, South Korea, Japan, and the like all have first world health care systems and infrastructure. They too will likely get a handle on it.

No, what worries me is Iran. Their first response was to ignore it. Their second was to lie and try to cover it up. And now that sufficient people are ill for that to no longer be a viable strategy, they seem to be at a bit of a loss. But if it gets out into the muslim pilgrim trails, you'll see it ricochet around the Middle-East like wildfire. Places like Libya and Syria have no functioning healthcare at all, and even those like Iraq and Egypt are hardly equipped to fight it. If it takes the Middle-East by storm, it'll cover Africa within a month. Where there is no healthcare worth a damn.

And then? You can't keep a quarantine on the entire continent of Africa and the Middle East. It will slip through over and over again until it gradually takes the rest of the world.

On top of which, if you think the crisis at Europe's borders is bad now; wait until they're all carrying coronavirus. It'll get brutal. There's enough trouble keeping a united European response right now without the added fear of migrants carrying something fatal to most old people. The Visegrad bloc will seal their borders and to hell with what the EU says. Over the pond, Trump's already said what he thinks of people from that part of the world. When they're provably carrying disease? Just watch those airport checks get impossible.

Iran will be the making or breaking point. Which is an awful thing to contemplate, given what I know of their government's competence.

There has been a confirmed case in my area. At a GAA club, which spread to a nearby bar too. I know it’s only a matter of time before I get it. Again, I’m not worried about myself, but I am worried about spreading it around.

It’s my gran I’m especially worried about. She’s nearly 90, and although she’s proven pretty robust so far, it’s not a chance I want her to take. And as it’s not even three months since grandad died I’m not emotionally prepared to go to another funeral of a family member.

Only thing is, I’ve just finished a painting for her, and I’m worried about it being a transmitter for this bastard virus. Might have to sit on it for a while.

Does Iran's response from now going forward actually matter? We already have cases in over a hundred countries and its apparently been in the states for weeks now.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
There has been a confirmed case in my area. At a GAA club, which spread to a nearby bar too. I know it’s only a matter of time before I get it. Again, I’m not worried about myself, but I am worried about spreading it around.

It’s my gran I’m especially worried about. She’s nearly 90, and although she’s proven pretty robust so far, it’s not a chance I want her to take. And as it’s not even three months since grandad died I’m not emotionally prepared to go to another funeral of a family member.

Only thing is, I’ve just finished a painting for her, and I’m worried about it being a transmitter for this bastard virus. Might have to sit on it for a while.

My uncle died just about a year ago from pneumonia due to a bug he caught on a cruise ship - it was very sudden and unexpected, and while I know it's not the same bug following this has been very eery. I don't worry so much for my mom, but she's the youngest of a lot of siblings and she's been very anxious about her brothers' health in light of all this.

 Ernestas wrote:
Virus is definitely blown out of proportion. It is just as dangerous as seasonal flu on steroids. Nothing too special. Furthermore, we do not know anything about it, not even its death rate. It is very likely that there are many cases of Corona virus which symptoms are mild and go unnoticed, but that is not reflected in statistics.

Here is predicted deadliness of this disease:

Spoiler:

There are far worse diseases which I would be afraid to get sick like polio.

The fact that you're posting a chart showing it edging up on Spanish Flu, and you're dismissing it as no big deal is a demonstration of either ignorance or a deeply considered contempt for millions of deaths.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Does Iran's response from now going forward actually matter? We already have cases in over a hundred countries and its apparently been in the states for weeks now.

It's the difference between having unknown millions of cases spanning continents and a few thousand cases in a few dozen countries under close control.

Britain and America are reasonably fortunate in that they are separated by sea from a lot of this. It makes it much easier to institute controls at the designated border points. Italy is already a leaky bucket because of Schengen. You can literally walk over the border in some places and take it with you.

But if Italy is a leaky bucket, Iran will be one with no bottom if it gets going. Coronavirus will cover the Middle-East and Africa, and from there? It'll be impossible to eradicate. We'll be able to slow it, but it will cross every border in time and infect every population en masse. We'll still be fighting it and losing two years from now. A lot of people will die and a lot of borders will see increasingly hysterical and inhumane reactions as every migrant or refugee becomes an infection risk.

It is likely that we will be fighting coronavirus for the foreseeable future. However a vaccine is on the way that will make it a lot easier. Some of my friends work with the Welcome trust and apparently work is progressing at a ferocious clip on the vaccine.

It is also very likely that the virus will evolve over time to become less virulent, that is usually what happens and there is no advantage to it becoming more virulent.

Now the truth of the effects of this virus and the threat it poses have been properly exposed to western culture; you must now pick ONE of TWO options only:

1. I am broadly healthy and wont die if I get Coronavirus, so this is all 'scaremongering' and 'overreaction' that threatens to inconvenience my schedule. How dare you!!! Lets all just shut up about it and carry on as normal as possible. It don't like getting my life inconvenienced just to save some elderly people because I am a selfish c-word.

2. I may or not be broadly healthy, and Coronavirus may or may not be a risk to me. But it is certainly a risk to many people in my community. We must act firmly and rationally to ensure that vulnerable people are not infected. Yes, statistically speaking numbers of victims are low compared to endemic diseases, but were COVID-19 to become widespread it could be a critical life risk to many millions of people rapidly, threatening to overwhelm public health provision. In countries with poor public health provision or a high spike of infection, large scale human losses are likely. We must prevent that at all costs. This virus has the capability to spread globally and only the most isolated communities are guaranteed to be safe from infection.

 Ketara wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Does Iran's response from now going forward actually matter? We already have cases in over a hundred countries and its apparently been in the states for weeks now.

It's the difference between having unknown millions of cases spanning continents and a few thousand cases in a few dozen countries under close control.

Britain and America are reasonably fortunate in that they are separated by sea from a lot of this. It makes it much easier to institute controls at the designated border points. Italy is already a leaky bucket because of Schengen. You can literally walk over the border in some places and take it with you.

But if Italy is a leaky bucket, Iran will be one with no bottom if it gets going. Coronavirus will cover the Middle-East and Africa, and from there? It'll be impossible to eradicate. We'll be able to slow it, but it will cross every border in time and infect every population en masse. We'll still be fighting it and losing two years from now. A lot of people will die and a lot of borders will see increasingly hysterical and inhumane reactions as every migrant or refugee becomes an infection risk.

I am far more concerned about inhumane treatment of people at borders than the virus. Xenophobia was bad enough before this started.

Some new studies have shown Zink to be effective at inhibiting the corona virus reproduction cycle in human cells.
Chloroquine, a type of medication used to treat malaria, can increase the level of zink in our cells. They've started using Chloroquine to treat corona patients in china and south korea.
This sounds really promising guys. hopefuly we can use this until we have a working vaccine ready for this b*stard of a virus.

I'll link the studies and some articles for anyone interested in this new development.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0109180&type=printable

https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/coronavirus-covid-19-choroquine-data/

http://www.koreabiomed.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=7428

Here in Greece, with less than 100 cases reported, the government has ordered all schools closed.... Apparently they fear the children as carriers more than as patients.

konst80hummel wrote:
Here in Greece, with less than 100 cases reported, the government has ordered all schools closed.... Apparently they fear the children as carriers more than as patients.

Having worked at an elementary school, I agree:

First UK MP case. Nadine Dorries is infected and has been in Parliament and in No. 10 in the last week.