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Still trying to work out a lot of what Jihadin is saying. Its all in military speak.

However stumbled on this in a newsfeed. Half an hour old from time of this post.:

The captain of a Navy aircraft carrier sent an urgent memo asking for help to contain an outbreak on the ship.
Captain Brett Crozier, commander of the USS Theodore Roosevelt, asked that the ship be allowed to dock to let the 5,000 sailors on board quarantine.
“We are not at war. Sailors do not need to die,” Crozier wrote yesterday to Navy leaders, according to the Wall Street Journal. “If we do not act now, we are failing to properly take care of our most trusted asset—our sailors.”
Crozier warned the ship, which has already seen at least 70 cases of coronavirus, did not allow for the social distancing recommended by the CDC.
“With the exceptions of a handful of senior officer staterooms, none of the berthing onboard a warship is appropriate for quarantine or isolation,” Crozier wrote.
In response, the Navy said it is “moving quickly to take all necessary measures to ensure the health and safety of the crew of USS Theodore Roosevelt.”

 Orlanth wrote:
Still trying to work out a lot of what Jihadin is saying. Its all in military speak.

However stumbled on this in a newsfeed. Half an hour old from time of this post.:

The captain of a Navy aircraft carrier sent an urgent memo asking for help to contain an outbreak on the ship.
Captain Brett Crozier, commander of the USS Theodore Roosevelt, asked that the ship be allowed to dock to let the 5,000 sailors on board quarantine.
“We are not at war. Sailors do not need to die,” Crozier wrote yesterday to Navy leaders, according to the Wall Street Journal. “If we do not act now, we are failing to properly take care of our most trusted asset—our sailors.”
Crozier warned the ship, which has already seen at least 70 cases of coronavirus, did not allow for the social distancing recommended by the CDC.
“With the exceptions of a handful of senior officer staterooms, none of the berthing onboard a warship is appropriate for quarantine or isolation,” Crozier wrote.
In response, the Navy said it is “moving quickly to take all necessary measures to ensure the health and safety of the crew of USS Theodore Roosevelt.”

Yeah, I can think of few places I'd want to be stuck on during a viral outbreak less than a ship, and one of those few places is a submarine!

Perhaps it's just me, but it feels like things have largely come to a head in the UK. That is to say, it's not going to get much worse.

-The Nightingale hospital comes online shortly with two more in the works up North, and we haven't even hit capacity in most hospitals.
-Assuming basic tests are passed, CPAP devices and ventilators will start rolling off the production lines in a week or so.
-The figures for new reported cases have stabilised over the last four days.
-The rush on supermarket food is diminishing daily as people have now stocked out their cupboards.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's going to get better any time soon. Restrictions aren't going to be eased for a few months and I certainly expect to see an increase in the number of people committed to hospital.

But it's all starting to feel less out of control, and more of a numbers game. Where we can measure infection rates against equipment supply and hospital capacity rates, and make sure things don't tip into excess (which is where tragedies like Italy happen). Where you can start planning again on a personal level (instead of hunting for food), and state projections can start switching from knee jerk response to management.

It could still go ploin shaped over the next two-three weeks as the system continues to adapt; but it feels like some semblance of control is finally starting to assert itself.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Yes, but (at least as far as I'm aware) things like, don't take unnecessary journeys, are just 'guidelines', not laws. This is why the whole fines thing bothers me. It relies on an officers subjective opinion, not an objective piece of legislation, to charge people and take money from them. Im reading the bill currently and will make my opinions once I've finished.

But vast swathes of existing legislation that have been in place for years revolve around subjectivity.

There's no law against carrying a crowbar in the boot of your car, but if you get discovered with one you can be arrested for going equipped, if the officer is of the opinion that's what you're up to, for instance.

I've been pulled over for not wearing a seat belt. He'd got me bang to rights, a genuine error on my part, but absolutely 100% guilty. The officer in question decided to let me off with a warning because he judged that I wasn't the sort who habitually did it. Which is the truth, but he could easily have written me a ticket.

In fact, for an ordinary citizen I'd say there's little outside of speeding and drink driving where the police action isn't dictated to some degree or another by the subjective opinion of the officer in question, and I don't see how this is much different.

yes, but for a punishment to be given, proof has to be had, and/or you have to admit guilt. in your crowbar example, if they couldnt prove you were planning on something with that crowbar, they have to let you go. and as for your seatbelt story, well thats just an example of an officer with a bit of common sense. luckily some of those still exist.

In a criminal matter, yes, there's due process and burden of proof, but for any number of civil issues on the spot fines have been a thing for a long time. This is just a novel application of an existing procedure. There's no doubt an appeal procedure if you feel that it's been issued unfairly, just like there are with existing offences.

The fact is the whole legal system is massively subjective, that's why we have judges, appeal courts, supreme courts etc. It's just that sometime that subjectivity appears earlier in the chain than others.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Still trying to work out a lot of what Jihadin is saying. Its all in military speak.

However stumbled on this in a newsfeed. Half an hour old from time of this post.:

The captain of a Navy aircraft carrier sent an urgent memo asking for help to contain an outbreak on the ship.
Captain Brett Crozier, commander of the USS Theodore Roosevelt, asked that the ship be allowed to dock to let the 5,000 sailors on board quarantine.
“We are not at war. Sailors do not need to die,” Crozier wrote yesterday to Navy leaders, according to the Wall Street Journal. “If we do not act now, we are failing to properly take care of our most trusted asset—our sailors.”
Crozier warned the ship, which has already seen at least 70 cases of coronavirus, did not allow for the social distancing recommended by the CDC.
“With the exceptions of a handful of senior officer staterooms, none of the berthing onboard a warship is appropriate for quarantine or isolation,” Crozier wrote.
In response, the Navy said it is “moving quickly to take all necessary measures to ensure the health and safety of the crew of USS Theodore Roosevelt.”

Yeah, I can think of few places I'd want to be stuck on during a viral outbreak less than a ship, and one of those few places is a submarine!

Speaking of which, a Dutch submarine broke off an exercise the other day due to an outbreak on board. Sailed back into port, and the crewmembers are now in quarantine. No casualties AFAIK.

The main problem is what happens when the government relaxes quarantine and reactivates the country. Not only does returning to "normal life" run the risk of infections running rampant through the population once again; there's also the fact that it might run even further as people might hold parties, events etc... all in celebration - whilst event companies might try to quickly restart some events that were lost to recoup the massive losses they've taken this year.


Plus even if the UK manages to contain its domestic infection there's still a huge risk from overseas. Even those nations that have done really well like Hong Kong can't be overlooking the fact that unless every nation self-contains to drive the disease out of the population (accepting that many might be cured and yet carriers); then its simply a pause before infections spike again.

At least until a cure/vaccine is developed. Either of which is likely years off being a viable safe tested medication and yet more years off being proscribed the world over.





One benefit is perhaps this might be a major nail in the coffin of anti-vaccination movements. It's given the whole world a scary wake-up call on the potential of what a major disease outbreak could do and, lets be honest, this one is fairly moderate. At least compared to something far more lethal like the Plague.



I think the UK government is still working on the basis that things will get worse still. We've bought time with the current measures and people/business are adapting. However many of the adaptions are not sustainable; heck home isolation isn't sustainable long term.

 Overread wrote:
The main problem is what happens when the government relaxes quarantine and reactivates the country. Not only does returning to "normal life" run the risk of infections running rampant through the population once again; there's also the fact that it might run even further as people might hold parties, events etc... all in celebration - whilst event companies might try to quickly restart some events that were lost to recoup the massive losses they've taken this year.

Plus even if the UK manages to contain its domestic infection there's still a huge risk from overseas. Even those nations that have done really well like Hong Kong can't be overlooking the fact that unless every nation self-contains to drive the disease out of the population (accepting that many might be cured and yet carriers); then its simply a pause before infections spike again.

At least until a cure/vaccine is developed. Either of which is likely years off being a viable safe tested medication and yet more years off being proscribed the world over.

One benefit is perhaps this might be a major nail in the coffin of anti-vaccination movements. It's given the whole world a scary wake-up call on the potential of what a major disease outbreak could do and, lets be honest, this one is fairly moderate. At least compared to something far more lethal like the Plague.

I think the UK government is still working on the basis that things will get worse still. We've bought time with the current measures and people/business are adapting. However many of the adaptions are not sustainable; heck home isolation isn't sustainable long term.

Like I said, don't get me wrong. I don't think things are going to get better from now on in terms of casualties (quite the opposite- cases are going to keep hitting the hospitals), and the worst point is going to be the next three weeks for that as new faciltiiers and capabilities come online.

But it feels like it's a numbers game now. Even if it gets worse for that fortnight, things have stabilised and that decline is predictable and will be eased past that point. Up until now, everything has been a case of acting and hoping. Very little room for even mid-term planning. No control over the situation. It's that state of affairs changing which I'm referring to.

The status on CDC's recommendation of masks is still under review. Masks may include improvised ones, such as a scarf.

"Officials at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are considering altering the official guidance to encourage people to take measures to cover their faces amid the coronavirus pandemic, according to a federal official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because it is an ongoing matter of internal discussion and nothing has been finalized.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/cdc-considering-recommending-general-public-wear-face-coverings-in-public/2020/03/30/6a3e495c-7280-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html?utm_source=reddit.com
https://archive.is/5AELs

"Dr. Robert Redfield, the director of the C.D.C., confirmed in an interview with National Public Radio on Monday that the agency was reviewing its guidelines on who should wear masks. Citing new data that shows high rates of transmission from people who are infected but show no symptoms, he said the guidance on mask wearing was “being critically re-reviewed, to see if there’s potential additional value for individuals that are infected or individuals that may be asymptomatically infected.” ... The coronavirus is probably three times as infectious as the flu, Dr. Redfield said. The proportion of people who are infected but asymptomatic — for 48 hours or so before showing any signs of fever, cough or other signs of the disease — may be as high as 25 percent, he said. ... “Note: During a public health emergency, face masks may be reserved for health care workers. You may need to improvise a face mask using a scarf or bandana.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/health/cdc-masks-coronavirus.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

*****

EDIT: Also found this graphic based on data from Johns Hopkins. Website is https://www.maskssavelives.org/

Correlation is not causation and I'm looking for corroboration. I'm sure, though, that research will show that even DIY masks reduce the spread of viruses from infected people, and masks prevent direct touch of fingers to the face. Commonly used face masks do not filter out viral particles.

Czechoslovakia recently required its citizens to wear masks, even DIY ones, in public, and a study said their curve was flattening. I figure more info would be ideal, but dunno if it's worth the time given the rate of the virus' infection.

South Korea's graph looks interesting -- need to look closer.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Yes, but (at least as far as I'm aware) things like, don't take unnecessary journeys, are just 'guidelines', not laws. This is why the whole fines thing bothers me. It relies on an officers subjective opinion, not an objective piece of legislation, to charge people and take money from them. Im reading the bill currently and will make my opinions once I've finished.

But vast swathes of existing legislation that have been in place for years revolve around subjectivity.

There's no law against carrying a crowbar in the boot of your car, but if you get discovered with one you can be arrested for going equipped, if the officer is of the opinion that's what you're up to, for instance.

I've been pulled over for not wearing a seat belt. He'd got me bang to rights, a genuine error on my part, but absolutely 100% guilty. The officer in question decided to let me off with a warning because he judged that I wasn't the sort who habitually did it. Which is the truth, but he could easily have written me a ticket.

In fact, for an ordinary citizen I'd say there's little outside of speeding and drink driving where the police action isn't dictated to some degree or another by the subjective opinion of the officer in question, and I don't see how this is much different.

yes, but there are still definitive things that constitute the crime. what is that here? going for a drive? ok, is it necessary? well who decides that? not the law, the officers in this case. it doesnt sit well with me, nor should it with anyone who considers themselves a liberal or libertarian. I think the police questioning innocent citizens going about their business, harming nobody, is a little too authoritarian for my liking, not to mention the nonsense about dying lakes black and leaving notes on peoples cars.

yes, but for a punishment to be given, proof has to be had, and/or you have to admit guilt. in your crowbar example, if they couldnt prove you were planning on something with that crowbar, they have to let you go. and as for your seatbelt story, well thats just an example of an officer with a bit of common sense. luckily some of those still exist.

In a criminal matter, yes, there's due process and burden of proof, but for any number of civil issues on the spot fines have been a thing for a long time. This is just a novel application of an existing procedure. There's no doubt an appeal procedure if you feel that it's been issued unfairly, just like there are with existing offences.

The fact is the whole legal system is massively subjective, that's why we have judges, appeal courts, supreme courts etc. It's just that sometime that subjectivity appears earlier in the chain than others.

yes, but there are still definitive things that constitute the crime. what is that here? going for a drive? ok, is it necessary? well who decides that? not the law, the officers in this case. it doesnt sit well with me, nor should it with anyone who considers themselves a liberal or libertarian. I think the police questioning innocent citizens going about their business, harming nobody, is a little too authoritarian for my liking, not to mention the nonsense about dying lakes black and leaving notes on peoples cars.

I live with someone who is a hospital nurse and it makes me a tad paranoid. Feels like it puts everyone in the house at a higher risk than i'd like. If things keep going this way i'm gonna end up walking around the house with gloves and a balaclava looking like a spetsnaz operator. Might look like a burglar but it'll have to do since I haven't been able to find any decent masks or toilet paper for a solid two weeks. The only other mask I have is a spray paint repirator from home depot, but it's not comfortable and I can't say if that will offer much more protection than a scarf. I kind of feel it would, since it's organic vapor cartridges but eh.

I'm particularly worried about my grandma since she had pneumonia a few months back around november. She recovered fine but being struck again so soon probably wouldn't turn out well.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Yes, but (at least as far as I'm aware) things like, don't take unnecessary journeys, are just 'guidelines', not laws. This is why the whole fines thing bothers me. It relies on an officers subjective opinion, not an objective piece of legislation, to charge people and take money from them. Im reading the bill currently and will make my opinions once I've finished.

But vast swathes of existing legislation that have been in place for years revolve around subjectivity.

There's no law against carrying a crowbar in the boot of your car, but if you get discovered with one you can be arrested for going equipped, if the officer is of the opinion that's what you're up to, for instance.

I've been pulled over for not wearing a seat belt. He'd got me bang to rights, a genuine error on my part, but absolutely 100% guilty. The officer in question decided to let me off with a warning because he judged that I wasn't the sort who habitually did it. Which is the truth, but he could easily have written me a ticket.

In fact, for an ordinary citizen I'd say there's little outside of speeding and drink driving where the police action isn't dictated to some degree or another by the subjective opinion of the officer in question, and I don't see how this is much different.

yes, but there are still definitive things that constitute the crime. what is that here? going for a drive? ok, is it necessary? well who decides that? not the law, the officers in this case. it doesnt sit well with me, nor should it with anyone who considers themselves a liberal or libertarian. I think the police questioning innocent citizens going about their business, harming nobody, is a little too authoritarian for my liking, not to mention the nonsense about dying lakes black and leaving notes on peoples cars.

yes, but for a punishment to be given, proof has to be had, and/or you have to admit guilt. in your crowbar example, if they couldnt prove you were planning on something with that crowbar, they have to let you go. and as for your seatbelt story, well thats just an example of an officer with a bit of common sense. luckily some of those still exist.

In a criminal matter, yes, there's due process and burden of proof, but for any number of civil issues on the spot fines have been a thing for a long time. This is just a novel application of an existing procedure. There's no doubt an appeal procedure if you feel that it's been issued unfairly, just like there are with existing offences.

The fact is the whole legal system is massively subjective, that's why we have judges, appeal courts, supreme courts etc. It's just that sometime that subjectivity appears earlier in the chain than others.

yes, but there are still definitive things that constitute the crime. what is that here? going for a drive? ok, is it necessary? well who decides that? not the law, the officers in this case. it doesnt sit well with me, nor should it with anyone who considers themselves a liberal or libertarian. I think the police questioning innocent citizens going about their business, harming nobody, is a little too authoritarian for my liking, not to mention the nonsense about dying lakes black and leaving notes on peoples cars.

I agree entirely re: the questioning of citizens, but you're quite a way off I think Re: 'definitive things that constitute the crime'. There are many, many crimes that are subjective. Including serious ones carrying custodial sentences. What's reasonable force? What is consent between sexual partners? What's dangerous driving?

 Ketara wrote:
Perhaps it's just me, but it feels like things have largely come to a head in the UK. That is to say, it's not going to get much worse.

-The Nightingale hospital comes online shortly with two more in the works up North, and we haven't even hit capacity in most hospitals.
-Assuming basic tests are passed, CPAP devices and ventilators will start rolling off the production lines in a week or so.
-The figures for new reported cases have stabilised over the last four days.
-The rush on supermarket food is diminishing daily as people have now stocked out their cupboards.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's going to get better any time soon. Restrictions aren't going to be eased for a few months and I certainly expect to see an increase in the number of people committed to hospital.

But it's all starting to feel less out of control, and more of a numbers game. Where we can measure infection rates against equipment supply and hospital capacity rates, and make sure things don't tip into excess (which is where tragedies like Italy happen). Where you can start planning again on a personal level (instead of hunting for food), and state projections can start switching from knee jerk response to management.

It could still go ploin shaped over the next two-three weeks as the system continues to adapt; but it feels like some semblance of control is finally starting to assert itself.

Are there any non goverment sources for claims? Goverment sources are hardly reliable seeing they have banned medical personel from talking about serious shortage of PPE's or risk losing their job.

This is all starting to feel like Captain Tripp’s from The Stand. Been feeling that way for a while, but haven’t wanted to say it.

I think the police questioning innocent citizens going about their business, harming nobody, is a little too authoritarian for my liking, not to mention the nonsense about dying lakes black and leaving notes on peoples cars.

Tell you what, if it continues once it's been officially announced that Coronavirus isn't a threat anymore, I'll wave a placard next to you.

But while hundreds of thousands may get sick, tens of thousands may die and millions have their livelihoods threatened, I'm willing to put up with being questioned, and, as with so many of these things, if I'm not actually acting like a gakker it'll mildly inconvenience me at worst.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, it bears repeating that these powers were only brought in because part of the population couldn't act like grown ups, it's those idiots that should be criticised, not the government, who are a blunt instrument at the best of times, let alone when their hand is forced into rapid action.

tneva82 wrote:

Are there any non goverment sources for claims? Goverment sources are hardly reliable seeing they have banned medical personel from talking about serious shortage of PPE's or risk losing their job.

Just to clarify, are you insinuating that the government is deliberately pushing the NHS into falsifying data regarding the number of reported cases? Or that they are lying when they make public reference to the estimated production capacity of Mercedes' CPAP production plant? That their estimates for bringing the Excel centre online are well off track and they are deliberately distorting that information?


If so, do you have any evidence? Just so I know how seriously to take you. Omitting and spinning small things into big things are standard political fare, actively lying is another.

Don’t bother wasting your time talking to him Ketara. He always argues in the worst of faith and he’s got a major chip on his shoulder too.

 Ketara wrote:
Perhaps it's just me, but it feels like things have largely come to a head in the UK. That is to say, it's not going to get much worse.

-The Nightingale hospital comes online shortly with two more in the works up North, and we haven't even hit capacity in most hospitals.
-Assuming basic tests are passed, CPAP devices and ventilators will start rolling off the production lines in a week or so.
-The figures for new reported cases have stabilised over the last four days.
-The rush on supermarket food is diminishing daily as people have now stocked out their cupboards.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's going to get better any time soon. Restrictions aren't going to be eased for a few months and I certainly expect to see an increase in the number of people committed to hospital.

But it's all starting to feel less out of control, and more of a numbers game. Where we can measure infection rates against equipment supply and hospital capacity rates, and make sure things don't tip into excess (which is where tragedies like Italy happen). Where you can start planning again on a personal level (instead of hunting for food), and state projections can start switching from knee jerk response to management.

It could still go ploin shaped over the next two-three weeks as the system continues to adapt; but it feels like some semblance of control is finally starting to assert itself.

I think this is the case also. While our politicians leave a lot to be desired the Civil Service when it must act can be very decisive. The Uk has more and longer contingencies for disaster than most European countries, its our strong suit. The Civil Service may be a dinosaur but it is largely well meaning and the procedures made often long ago are sound.
We could not stop COVID-19 from entering the country because the polticians didn't take it serious enough quickly enough, but the NHS and contingency planners have the matter well in hand. NHS Nightingale is a major undertaking, but due to the circumstances events that would be held up in rounds of red tape and bidding just occured and quickly too. From a freind on the inside the Civil Service is a dinosaur rife with inefficiencies and sloth, but when they have to they have the capability to drop their BS and act decisively, he saw it before in another crisis We are seeing this now.

Cases will rise but the State has woken up to the challenge. Holding it together is one of the things the British are good at frankly, we can be a self centered myopic lot, but there have been enough signs that the other side of the nations character, the coming together in a crisis is happening.

 Azreal13 wrote:

I think the police questioning innocent citizens going about their business, harming nobody, is a little too authoritarian for my liking, not to mention the nonsense about dying lakes black and leaving notes on peoples cars.

Tell you what, if it continues once it's been officially announced that Coronavirus isn't a threat anymore, I'll wave a placard next to you.

But while hundreds of thousands may get sick, tens of thousands may die and millions have their livelihoods threatened, I'm willing to put up with being questioned, and, as with so many of these things, if I'm not actually acting like a gakker it'll mildly inconvenience me at worst.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, it bears repeating that these powers were only brought in because part of the population couldn't act like grown ups, it's those idiots that should be criticised, not the government, who are a blunt instrument at the best of times, let alone when their hand is forced into rapid action.

Well, I agree somewhat, in that I'll accept emergency powers, considering the circumstances, but I think the police are being too heavy handed, already. Can anyone justify the whole lake thing? Or the drones? Don't they have actual important work to do instead of basically pissing about, harassing folk who have 0 chance of spreading the virus in the circumstances?

I haven't finished reading the bill yet but the sunset clause point is 2 years. Seems a little long to me. Although it could be worse, we could be in Hungary.

@ced - Wow, yeah - that masks graph is pretty illuminating. I think it also illustrates how this kind of caught the world by surprise... in hindsight, if we'd known that, everyone should've just masked up lol.

As for us here, still waiting on the test results. Sorry I didn't reply to the question about symptoms last page - I have felt somewhat premature talking about things in detail without knowing whether we truly have COVID-19 or just something else.

This recent article reminds me of how I've been feeling, though:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28963428/espn-burke-symptom-free-positive-test

Where my number one, overwhelming symptom is just fatigue (most noticeable when trying to chase my little kids around, who are obviously home at the moment) and also some shortness of breath. Of course, it could just be something standard, but I've literally never felt this way before. Hopefully they'll finally get that test back to me and I can stop wondering either way >.<. Also, obviously really thankful that, if we do have it, we're on that end of the spectrum of symptoms rather than those who have been hit really hard (I also wonder if this has to do with the "L" vs "S" strain, as someone also mentioned last page).

Stay safe everybody!

Sending my best wishes RiTides.

My dad’s friend’s father has it and it’s hit him hard. They took him off the ventilator last night and it was touch and go but he’s still going.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
This is all starting to feel like Captain Tripp’s from The Stand. Been feeling that way for a while, but haven’t wanted to say it.

Nah, that was a designed weapon superkiller bug and noone survived it and it burned through the whole world (0% survival rate and really really fast killer) in far less time than corona has done anything, plus it had the crimson king and randall flagg to help it along. Nothing close to that bad, though the good guys still won in the end even with captain tripps.

OK so upon reading the emergency powers section of the bill, the main points are clause 49 and 50, which basically give the authorities powers to enforce testing and quarantine of those with, or suspected to have the virus (pending testing), and to stop gatherings and enforce the closure of property, to prevent the spread of the virus. However, it mentions nothing about fines, and nothing about powers to prohibit leaving your house for whatever reason. It states:

'Taken together, clauses 49 and 50 would provide each of the UK governments with wide-ranging powers to restrict the freedom of movement of citizens in order to prevent the spread of the virus. However, there are no powers in the Bill which would allow directions to be issued requiring individuals to have prior permission or good reason to leave their homes. Neither would the Bill give the police or immigration officials powers to enforce elongated quarantines of people who have not been assessed for the virus by public health officers.'

Therefore, the advice to stay at home as much as possible is just an unenforceable guideline, and some police actions of the past week or so have definitely crossed a line.

Legally probably yes, in regards to legitimy probably no and that is the crux isn't it

Czechoslovakia recently required its citizens to wear masks

ye gods, the virus can travel back in time!?

On a more serious note, number of US deaths just "beat" 9/11 and is on its way to top 4000. It took a month to get to 1000 fatalities, and then it all went to hell in a matter of days.

Cronch wrote:

Czechoslovakia recently required its citizens to wear masks

ye gods, the virus can travel back in time!?

On a more serious note, number of US deaths just "beat" 9/11 and is on its way to top 4000. It took a month to get to 1000 fatalities, and then it all went to hell in a matter of days.

Next time he declares it the Kondom of bohemia.

It’s April Fools day, but please don’t spread fake stories.

Also with what I’ve been hearing about amazon, I’ve cancelled Prime and I’m endeavouring to never buy from them again.

LOL @ “masks vs no masks”.

More like “spent years planning, organizing and prepping for the next SARS vs. eh....not so much”.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
It’s April Fools day, but please don’t spread fake stories.

Also with what I’ve been hearing about amazon, I’ve cancelled Prime and I’m endeavouring to never buy from them again.

What did Amazon do now?

 Alpharius wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
It’s April Fools day, but please don’t spread fake stories.

Also with what I’ve been hearing about amazon, I’ve cancelled Prime and I’m endeavouring to never buy from them again.

What did Amazon do now?

Amazon fired the guy who led the walkout protest.
On the other hand, he was also supposed to be staying at home, with pay, on quarantine for possible exposure to the virus.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
It’s April Fools day, but please don’t spread fake stories.

Also with what I’ve been hearing about amazon, I’ve cancelled Prime and I’m endeavouring to never buy from them again.

What did Amazon do now?

Amazon fired the guy who led the walkout protest.
On the other hand, he was also supposed to be staying at home, with pay, on quarantine for possible exposure to the virus.

That seems pretty reasonable to me. But then, today has been a litany of workers making demands for more money and threatening strikes, which seems shaking moral ground and dangerous employment grounds when there's a glut of newly unemployed people who'll line up to replace them.