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Yeah, absolutely!

We're just not testing enough to know for certain about...a lot of things.

Rob Lee wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

I agree that self-medicating is generally not advisable.

However, I don't think the brand here is relevant- Flarin is just a brand of ibuprofen with a gastro-protective coating. The active ingredient is identical and the systemic effects will be the same- the drug will still be reaching the body through the gut and liver the same way as any other oral preparation.

The coating is just intended to reduce any gastric side effects, which are the chief source of issues with NSAIDs. I don't think a reduction in stomach ulcers is why the researchers are using ibuprofen.

Yeah, the problem is someone might read what you've stated and think "oh well, I'll be fine if I have Covid-19 and use over the counter Ibuprofen".

I take an NSAID for arthritis, Naproxen. Given the advice so far I've been very concerned about using it if I have a flare up. It weakens the immune system, or so I've been led to believe by what I've read (funny that the GP who prescribed it never told me that!).

I was quite careful not to say that. People may indeed read that into it, so I'll clarify what I meant.

All I am saying is that the systemic effects of oral ibuprofen preparations are identical regardless of whether they are expensive branded coated capsules or cheap unbranded tablets. The dose of ibuprofen received into the bloodstream via the liver is the same. The capsule is only intended to reduce side effects.

What I am not saying is that ibuprofen improves outcomes for COVID infections. We will have to wait for trial data for that. There are plausible mechanisms whereby ibuprofen and other NSAIDs could improve outcomes, but equally there are plausible mechanisms by which NSAIDs could worsen COVID outcomes, as you mention re. naproxen.

However, if data shows that ibuprofen improves outcomes, then your bog-standard value pack will work just as well as the Flarin stuff for actually reducing systemic inflammation. Likewise, if Flarin proves to be more dangerous than nothing, all oral ibuprofen preparations should be avoided. The systemic effects are directly comparable.


Regarding naproxen- NSAIDs are not classic immunosuppressants by any means, but by their very nature they dampen down part of the inflammatory response. Therefore, there is a plausible mechanism by which healing responses and infection responses may be impaired. This is not well characterised or understood, and NSAIDs are effective at relieving pain, so they continue to be used. Pain itself is also a factor in poor healing so it is quite difficult to unpick. None of this is something you will find in a documented side-effects list, it is too nebulous at present, so it is understandable your doctor wouldn't mention it. (Having said that, NSAIDs can very rarely cause low cell counts, as can many medicines. This is not an intended effect of the drug and is listed as rare to very rare for ibuprofen. Many drugs can rarely cause the same adverse effect).

 Azreal13 wrote:
My local healthcare trust (which is in the least affected part of one of the least affected parts of the country) apparently hasn't had a confirmed case in a fortnight.

yeah but Im still not sure that what they Druids say is true

People at anti police murder rallies are testing higher for covid according to some early test results.

What about people at black lives matter protests?

India getting a surge in cases since lifting their lockdown. Worrying, I have a lot of colleagues I consider friends over there.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-52989452

I've been deeply worried about India since the beginning - I think it's a disaster in the making. There have been 2 cyclones in the last 2 weeks, exacerbating it.

India seem to have managed the worst of both worlds.

The initial lockdown prompted mass migration across the country by poor labourers, which probably helped spread the disease.

Now those same poverty stricken people have got no jobs, so they're starting to starve.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
2020 is turning out to be a really crappy year.

There is a report in the Washington Post(?) about an hour increase in COVID related hospitalizations in several states.

If I was on a computer I would link it.

 Easy E wrote:
There is a report in the Washington Post(?) about an hour increase in COVID related hospitalizations in several states.

Er, what?

I suspect that's some smart phone auto-correcting going on there, but I can't tell what you're trying to say...

 Alpharius wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
There is a report in the Washington Post(?) about an hour increase in COVID related hospitalizations in several states.

Er, what?

I suspect that's some smart phone auto-correcting going on there, but I can't tell what you're trying to say...

Pretty sure he means that the incredibly predictable spike after reopening happened. Texas and Florida are both showing record case numbers, and given that Texas' numbers are based on hospitalizations, the "we're just testing more" argument doesn't really hold up.

There isn’t much evidence that reopening is what’s causing the spikes again. It’s very localized, with some areas seeing a spike after reopening, and others not at all.

https://apple.news/AlM56rkhMSQW1zjUi55Pm_w

Though the outbreaks come weeks into state reopenings, it’s not clear that they’re linked to increased economic activity. In Georgia, where hair salons, tattoo parlors and gyms have been operating for a month and a half, case numbers have plateaued, flummoxing experts.

What baffles me is that every business is arbitrarily apply rules with no rhyme or reason.
I was at my community lake yesterday, and they have everyone going in and out of one entrance, one single toilet open for everyone at the lake to share (how hundreds of people sharing a single toilet is more sanitary is beyond me), and no outside food or drink allowed.....outside, at a lake.
The malls are open now, with no limits on how many people are inside. Yet, people are funneled in and out of a few entrances, and each store has an arbitrary limit to how many people they allow in. How, limiting people in each store, yet not limiting how many are standing in a line outside said store, and still inside the mall makes no sense.
If there are going to be rules for reopening, everyone needs to be on the same page and use some common sense.

Even with inconsistencies the fact remains that anti-spread measures and general caution are FAR more prevalent post-reopening, so it should be no surprise that transmission rates do not surge to match what they were pre-lockdown. Ditto for economic activity.

It is less about raw 'positive test numbers going up', I think, and it is really more all about the hospitalization rate, death rate and number of positives as a percentage rate of overall testing.

I think.

 Laughing Man wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
There is a report in the Washington Post(?) about an hour increase in COVID related hospitalizations in several states.

Er, what?

I suspect that's some smart phone auto-correcting going on there, but I can't tell what you're trying to say...

Pretty sure he means that the incredibly predictable spike after reopening happened. Texas and Florida are both showing record case numbers, and given that Texas' numbers are based on hospitalizations, the "we're just testing more" argument doesn't really hold up.

Not to mention protests that while have legit reasons are giving good opportunity for virus spreading with thousands if not tens of thousands in same area. All it takes is couple virus carrier and same could happen what happened in north italy with single football game in stadium kickstarting the mess.

OMG!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/11/marmite-supplies-hit-by-covid-19-beer-brewing-slowdown-yeast

Luckily I've got two jars in reserve.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
OMG!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/11/marmite-supplies-hit-by-covid-19-beer-brewing-slowdown-yeast

Luckily I've got two jars in reserve.

Mother of god.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
OMG!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/11/marmite-supplies-hit-by-covid-19-beer-brewing-slowdown-yeast

Luckily I've got two jars in reserve.

At least some good has come from this crisis

I'd be more worried about the beer brewing slowing down.

Excuse whilst I don my LARP kit, ready for the inevitable Marmite Conflict.

I WILL NOT BE DENIED!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Excuse whilst I don my LARP kit, ready for the inevitable Marmite Conflict.

I WILL NOT BE DENIED!

Good luck with that one bud, some lad in wales tried that the other week in a beauty spot , next thing the armed police were all over him. Lol.

Saying that though, i wonder how quick I could clear the aisles in Tesco’s if i rocked up in my multicam airsoft loadout. Those pouches on my plate carrier would be great for beer cans. Don’t think the cops would see it that way though.

Just cut / shaved my own hair for the first time since I can't go to a barber. Turned out suprisingly well

 Bilge Rat wrote:
Just cut / shaved my own hair for the first time since I can't go to a barber. Turned out suprisingly well

brave indeed, as The Event drags on the hair trimmers used to keep Father mostly presentable are whispering to me like some demon blade...cmon how bad could it be...

Bit worried about the place going bat-gak loopy-poops come Monday

So uk's own contact trace app doesn't work in crowded buildings. Aka the areas it would have biggest benefit.

One starts to wonder with what reasons this company was picked. He who bribes most?

tneva82 wrote:

 Laughing Man wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
There is a report in the Washington Post(?) about an hour increase in COVID related hospitalizations in several states.

Er, what?

I suspect that's some smart phone auto-correcting going on there, but I can't tell what you're trying to say...

Pretty sure he means that the incredibly predictable spike after reopening happened. Texas and Florida are both showing record case numbers, and given that Texas' numbers are based on hospitalizations, the "we're just testing more" argument doesn't really hold up.

Not to mention protests that while have legit reasons are giving good opportunity for virus spreading with thousands if not tens of thousands in same area. All it takes is couple virus carrier and same could happen what happened in north italy with single football game in stadium kickstarting the mess.

I'd say all the openings and the beach parties with tons of people without masks on is more to blame. The protests I've seen, most people were wearing masks.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
I'd be more worried about the beer brewing slowing down.

I'm doing my bit for the cause. I've got my slab of Brewdog "Barnard Castle Eye Test" on its way.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 Bilge Rat wrote:
Just cut / shaved my own hair for the first time since I can't go to a barber. Turned out suprisingly well

brave indeed, as The Event drags on the hair trimmers used to keep Father mostly presentable are whispering to me like some demon blade...cmon how bad could it be...

Bit worried about the place going bat-gak loopy-poops come Monday

It's not so bad, I've done mine myself for about 15 years now. Did my youngest son's for the first time the other day, that was actually a lot scarier!

Crispy78 wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 Bilge Rat wrote:
Just cut / shaved my own hair for the first time since I can't go to a barber. Turned out suprisingly well

brave indeed, as The Event drags on the hair trimmers used to keep Father mostly presentable are whispering to me like some demon blade...cmon how bad could it be...

Bit worried about the place going bat-gak loopy-poops come Monday

It's not so bad, I've done mine myself for about 15 years now. Did my youngest son's for the first time the other day, that was actually a lot scarier!

Yeah, the shaver had a guard thing on it so it makes it pretty easy to get everything even as long as you don't miss anywhere. Helps that my appearance is basically a lost cause at this point

Have been cutting my own hair for years now. At least 11 years, didn’t see the point of paying some dude to shave it all off so started doing it myself.
No 1 around the sides. 2 or 3 on the top. Full grown beard , death metal t shirt on and boom job done lol.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
I'd be more worried about the beer brewing slowing down.

I'm doing my bit for the cause. I've got my slab of Brewdog "Barnard Castle Eye Test" on its way.

That name became irrelevant pretty quickly haha.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 Bilge Rat wrote:
Just cut / shaved my own hair for the first time since I can't go to a barber. Turned out suprisingly well

brave indeed, as The Event drags on the hair trimmers used to keep Father mostly presentable are whispering to me like some demon blade...cmon how bad could it be...

Bit worried about the place going bat-gak loopy-poops come Monday

If you're just buzzing it all over it's easy enough, just gotta make sure you don't leave any strays. I've been seeing some 1930s style undercuts appearing more and more at work. Most people are trying to get a transition into it. They're scared of going too stark. Ive been getting the mrs to shave mine down to nothing on the sides, long slick on the top, like old Arthur in my avatar. She doesn't do a bad job to be fair.