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Matt Swain - It's a bit hard to tell with the NYT, as their coronavirus coverage is free but not the rest.
Luckily, Ouze copied and pasted the whole article into this thread, if you're interested in reading it! It's quoted in my post to Ouze further up this page, as well.
Edit: Make that last page! So here it is quoted over to the new one:
RiTides wrote: Ah,shoot. I thought this was a public article because it pertains to the pandemic but apparently you need to be a subscriber to read all of it. I can try to copy and paste or maybe there is another similar public source?
I hope at least one person actually reads this after the effort I put in to make this readable:
Spoiler:
‘The Biggest Monster’ Is Spreading. And It’s Not the Coronavirus. Tuberculosis kills 1.5 million people each year. Lockdowns and supply-chain disruptions threaten progress against the disease as well as H.I.V. and malaria. By Apoorva Mandavilli
Aug. 3, 2020
Updated 10:51 a.m. ET
It begins with a mild fever and malaise, followed by a painful cough and shortness of breath. The infection prospers in crowds, spreading to people in close reach. Containing an outbreak requires contact tracing, as well as isolation and treatment of the sick for weeks or months.
This insidious disease has touched every part of the globe. It is tuberculosis, the biggest infectious-disease killer worldwide, claiming 1.5 million lives each year.
Until this year, TB and its deadly allies, H.I.V. and malaria, were on the run. The toll from each disease over the previous decade was at its nadir in 2018, the last year for which data are available.
Yet now, as the coronavirus pandemic spreads around the world, consuming global health resources, these perennially neglected adversaries are making a comeback.
“Covid-19 risks derailing all our efforts and taking us back to where we were 20 years ago,” said Dr. Pedro L. Alonso, the director of the World Health Organization’s global malaria program.
It’s not just that the coronavirus has diverted scientific attention from TB, H.I.V. and malaria. The lockdowns, particularly across parts of Africa, Asia and Latin America, have raised insurmountable barriers to patients who must travel to obtain diagnoses or drugs, according to interviews with more than two dozen public health officials, doctors and patients worldwide.
Fear of the coronavirus and the shuttering of clinics have kept away many patients struggling with H.I.V., TB and malaria, while restrictions on air and sea travel have severely limited delivery of medications to the hardest-hit regions.
About 80 percent of tuberculosis, H.I.V. and malaria programs worldwide have reported disruptions in services, and one in four people living with H.I.V. have reported problems with gaining access to medications, according to U.N. AIDS. Interruptions or delays in treatment may lead to drug resistance, already a formidable problem in many countries.
In India, home to about 27 percent of the world’s TB cases, diagnoses have dropped by nearly 75 percent since the pandemic began. In Russia, H.I.V. clinics have been repurposed for coronavirus testing.
Malaria season has begun in West Africa, which has 90 percent of malaria deaths in the world, but the normal strategies for prevention — distribution of insecticide-treated bed nets and spraying with pesticides — have been curtailed because of lockdowns.
According to one estimate, a three-month lockdown across different parts of the world and a gradual return to normal over 10 months could result in an additional 6.3 million cases of tuberculosis and 1.4 million deaths from it.
A six-month disruption of antiretroviral therapy may lead to more than 500,000 additional deaths from illnesses related to H.I.V., according to the W.H.O. Another model by the W.H.O. predicted that in the worst-case scenario, deaths from malaria could double to 770,000 per year.
Several public health experts, some close to tears, warned that if the current trends continue, the coronavirus is likely to set back years, perhaps decades, of painstaking progress against TB, H.I.V. and malaria.
The Global Fund, a public-private partnership to fight these diseases, estimates that mitigating this damage will require at least $28.5 billion, a sum that is unlikely to materialize.
Delays in diagnosis
If history is any guide, the coronavirus’s impact on the poor will be felt long after the pandemic is over. The socioeconomic crisis in Eastern Europe in the early 1990s, for example, led to the highest rates in the world of a kind of TB that was resistant to multiple drugs, a dubious distinction the region holds even today.
The starting point in this ruinous chain of events is a failure to diagnose: The longer a person goes undiagnosed, and the later treatment begins, the more likely an infectious disease is to spread, sicken and kill.
For malaria, a short delay in diagnosis can swiftly turn fatal, sometimes within just 36 hours of a spiking fever. “It’s one of those diseases where we cannot afford to wait,” Dr. Alonso said.
Apprehensive about malaria’s rise in West Africa, the W.H.O. is now considering giving entire populations antimalarial drugs — a strategy of last resort used during the Ebola epidemic in West Africa and the Boko Haram insurgency.
Across sub-Saharan Africa, fewer women are coming to clinics for H.I.V. diagnosis. A six-month disruption in access to drugs that prevent H.I.V.-positive pregnant women from passing the infection to their babies in utero could increase H.I.V. infections in children by as much as 139 percent in Uganda and 162 percent in Malawi, according to U.N. AIDS.
Diminishing diagnostic capacity may have the greatest effect on TB, leading to dire consequences for households because, like the coronavirus, the bacterium spreads most efficiently in indoor air and among people in close contact.
Each person with TB can spread the disease to another 15 individuals over a year, sharply raising the possibility of people infected while indoors spreading it among their communities once lockdowns end. The prospect is especially worrisome in densely populated places with high rates of T.B., such as the favelas of Rio de Janeiro or the townships of South Africa.
“The more you leave undiagnosed and untreated, the more you will have next year and the year after,” said Dr. Lucica Ditiu, who heads the Stop TB Partnership, an international consortium of 1,700 groups fighting the disease.
The infrastructure built to diagnose H.I.V. and TB has been a boon for many countries grappling with the coronavirus. GeneXpert, the tool used to detect genetic material from the TB bacteria and from H.I.V., can also amplify RNA from the coronavirus for diagnosis.
But now most clinics are using the machines only to look for the coronavirus. Prioritizing the coronavirus over T.B. is “very stupid from a public health perspective,” Dr. Ditiu said. “You should actually be smart and do both.”
In country after country, the pandemic has resulted in sharp drops in diagnoses of TB: a 70 percent decline in Indonesia, 50 percent in Mozambique and South Africa, and 20 percent in China, according to the W.H.O.
In late May in Mexico, as coronavirus infections climbed, TB diagnoses recorded by the government fell to 263 cases from 1,097 the same week last year.
Dr. Giorgio Franyuti, the executive director of Medical Impact, an advocacy group based in Mexico, normally works in the country’s remote jungles, diagnosing and treating TB in the Lacandon people. Unable to travel there during the pandemic, he has worked at a makeshift army hospital treating Covid-19 patients in Mexico City.
There, he has seen nine patients with a sputum-filled cough — characteristic of TB — that began months earlier but who were presumed to have Covid-19. The patients later contracted the coronavirus in the hospital and became seriously ill. At least four have died.
“Nobody is testing for TB at any facility,” he said. “The mind of clinicians in Mexico, as well as decision makers, is stuck with Covid-19.”
“TB is the biggest monster of them all. If we’re talking about deaths and pandemics, 10 million cases a year,” he said, Covid doesn’t compare yet to that toll.
India went into lockdown on March 24, and the government directed public hospitals to focus on Covid-19. Many hospitals shuttered outpatient services for other diseases.
The impact on TB diagnoses was immediate: The number of new cases recorded by the Indian government between March 25 and June 19 was 60,486, compared with 179,792 during the same period in 2019.
The pandemic is also shrinking the supply of diagnostic tests for these killers as companies turn to making more expensive tests to detect the coronavirus. Cepheid, the California-based manufacturer of TB diagnostic tests, has pivoted to making tests for the coronavirus. Companies that make diagnostic tests for malaria are doing the same, according to Dr. Catharina Boehme, the chief executive of the Foundation for Innovative New Diagnostics.
Coronavirus tests are much more lucrative, at about $10, compared with 18 cents for a rapid malaria test.
These companies “have tremendous demand for Covid right now,” said Dr. Madhukar Pai, the director of the McGill International TB Centre in Montreal. “I can’t imagine diseases of poverty getting any attention in this space.”
Treatment interruptions
The pandemic has hindered the availability of drugs for H.I.V., TB and malaria worldwide by interrupting supply chains, diverting manufacturing capacity and imposing physical barriers for patients who must travel to distant clinics to pick up the medications.
And these shortages are forcing some patients to ration their medications, endangering their health. In Indonesia, the official policy is to provide a month’s supply of drugs at a time to H.I.V. patients, but antiretroviral therapy has lately been hard to come by outside of Jakarta.
Even in the city, some people are stretching a month’s supply to two, said “Davi” Sepi Maulana Ardiansyah, an activist with the group Inti Muda.
Mr. Ardiansyah has done so himself, although he knows it has jeopardized his well-being. “This pandemic and this unavailability of the medicines is really impacting our mental health and also our health,” he said.
During the lockdown in Nairobi, Thomas Wuoto, who has H.I.V., borrowed antiretroviral pills from his wife, who also is infected. As a volunteer educator for H.I.V., Mr. Wuoto knew only too well that he was risking drug resistance by mixing or skipping medications. When he finally made it to the Mbagathi County Hospital, he had gone 10 days without his H.I.V. medicines, the first time since 2002 that he had missed his therapy.
People with H.I.V. and TB who skip medication are likely to get sicker in the short term. In the long term, there’s an even more worrisome consequence: a rise in drug-resistant forms of these diseases. Already drug-resistant TB is such a threat that patients are closely monitored during treatment — a practice that has mostly been suspended during the pandemic.
According to the W.H.O., at least 121 countries have reported a drop in TB patients visiting clinics since the pandemic began, threatening hard-fought gains.
“This is really difficult to digest,” Dr. Ditiu said. “It took a lot of work to arrive where we are. We were not at the peak of the mountain, but we were away from the base. But then an avalanche came and pushed us back to the bottom.”
The lockdowns in many places were imposed so swiftly that drug stocks were rapidly depleted. Mexico already had expired drugs in its supply, but that problem has been exacerbated by the pandemic, according to Dr. Franyuti.
In Brazil, H.I.V. and TB drugs are purchased and distributed by the ministry of health. But the coronavirus is racing through the country, and distribution of these treatments has become increasingly difficult as health care workers try to cope with the pandemic’s toll.
“It’s a big logistical challenge to have municipalities have higher stock so they can supply,” said Dr. Betina Durovni, a senior scientist at the Fiocruz Foundation, a research institute in Brazil.
Even if governments are prepared, with some help from big aid agencies, to buy drugs months in advance, the global supply may soon run out.
The pandemic has severely restricted international transport, hindering the availability not just of chemical ingredients and raw materials, but also of packaging supplies.
“The disruption of supply chains is really something that worries me — for H.I.V., for TB, for malaria,” said Dr. Carlos del Rio, chair of the scientific advisory board of the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief.
The hype over chloroquine as a potential treatment for the coronavirus has led to hoarding of the drug in some countries like Myanmar, depleting its global stocks.
More than 80 percent of the global supply of antiretroviral drugs comes from just eight Indian companies. The cost of these alone could rise by $225 million per year because of shortfalls in supplies and work force, transport disruptions and currency fluctuations, according to U.N. AIDS.
There is also a real risk that Indian companies will turn to more profitable medicines, or will not be able to meet the global demand because migrant workers have deserted cities as the coronavirus spreads.
The Indian government may even decide not to export T.B. medicines, saving its supply for its own citizens.
“We’re very dependent on a few key developers or manufacturers for all of the drugs around the world, and that needs to be diversified,” said Dr. Meg Doherty, who directs H.I.V. programs at the W.H.O. “If you had more locally developed drug depots or drug manufacturers, it would be closer to the point of need.”
Aid organizations and governments are trying to mitigate some of the damage by stretching supplies and stockpiling medications. In June, the W.H.O. changed its recommendation for treatment of drug-resistant TB. Instead of 20 months of injections, patients may now take pills for nine to 11 months. The change means patients don’t have to travel to clinics, increasingly closed by lockdowns.
More than half of 144 countries surveyed by the W.H.O. said they have opted to give patients H.I.V. drugs sufficient to last for at least three months — six months, in the case of a few countries like South Sudan — in order to limit their trips to hospitals. But it’s unclear how successful those efforts have been.
In some countries, such as the Philippines, advocacy groups have set up depots for patients to pick up antiretroviral pills or arrange to drop them off at patients’ homes.
In a few nations, like South Africa, most patients already pick up medications from community centers rather than from hospitals, said Dr. Salim S. Abdool Karim, a global health expert in South Africa and the chair of a government advisory committee on Covid-19. “That has been an important advantage in a way.”
‘What are we not doing right?’
The pandemic has exposed deep fissures in the health care systems of many countries.
In Zimbabwe, staffs in public hospitals were working reduced shifts even before the pandemic, because the government could not afford to pay their full salaries. Some hospitals like the Sally Mugabe Central Hospital in Harare — which was operating at half capacity because of water shortages and other problems — have since closed their outpatient departments, where TB and H.I.V. patients received their medications.
“Hospitals are functioning in an emergency mode,” said Dr. Tapiwa Mungofa, a physician at the Sally Mugabe Hospital.
The situation is no better in KwaZulu-Natal, which has the highest prevalence of H.I.V. in South Africa. Dr. Zolelwa Sifumba was a teenager when she saw images of skeletal patients dying of AIDS. Over the past few years in KwaZulu-Natal, she is again seeing patients with full-blown AIDS.
“We’re seeing people come in at the stage where they’re kind of on death’s door,” she said. “What are we not doing right?”
Some remote parts of the world are being decimated by the coronavirus — but their very remoteness makes the pandemic’s impact on these other big infectious killers impossible to measure.
The town of Tabatinga in Amazonas, the biggest state in Brazil, is more than 1,000 miles from the closest city with an I.C.U., Manaus. The government has been using airplanes to transport coronavirus patients to Manaus, but many cases are being missed, said Dr. Marcelo Cordeiro-Santos, a researcher at the Tropical Medicine Foundation in Manaus.
Hospitals are giving chloroquine to people with Covid-19, at the recommendation of the Brazilian ministry of health, even though evidence now suggests it does not help and may even be harmful.
Chloroquine is also a crucial malaria medicine, and its indiscriminate use now may lead to resistance to the drug, Dr. Cordeiro-Santos warned — with possibly dire consequences for those infected in the future. But he also said it’s possible that widespread distribution of chloroquine may help protect residents of Amazonas from malaria.
Other experts said they hope the coronavirus pandemic brings some silver linings.
Aid agencies have long recommended that countries buy drugs in bulk and provide several months’ supply at a time to their citizens. Some governments are considering doing so now for H.I.V., according to Dr. Doherty at the W.H.O.
Health care providers are also embracing video and phone calls to counsel and treat patients, which many people find far easier than traveling to distant clinics.
“Sometimes systems are tough to change,” said Dr. del Rio, “but I think there’s nothing better than a crisis to change the system, right?”
It's a long read (that's why it's spoilered, obviously) but well worth checking out if you've got time...
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/08/04 12:05:44
I was wondering why Australia which had been doing so well preventing viral spread has started having so many problems
the BBC are reporting that in Victoria "Random checks by police on 3,000 infected people had found more than 800 were not home isolating, as they were supposed to be."
which seems insane levels of stupidity and selfishness
(or something weird going on with support for those isolating that's not being reported? As far as i'm aware AUS does support people getting food/medication)
Food and medications don't pay the bill though.
the poorer of these will still be forced to work to get money to pay bills.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
90% of people with lupus are expected to live a normal life span. So if my math is right...10% will have a less than normal life span. Much like a host of other medical conditions that you wouldn't say "kill you" they are called morbities like hypertension/dyslipidemia/sleep apnea. These conditions don't kill you...a heart attack or in the case of Lupus like renal failure will kill you. Obviously it sucks if some Lupus suffers couldn't get a med that betters and prolongs their life but if it meant that a bunch of people lived through the corona virus that would have died - it would be worth it. Not claiming Hydroxy is effective at that - just saying if it was...there isn't some kind of moral crisis here. The people that need it more would get it and it would be the covid patients. Covid kills people.
Also - the shortages of Hydroxy are literally made up here in the states.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/04/americas/brazil-us-hydroxychloroquine-doses-intl/index.html It's in such short supply Trump sent 2 million doses to and Brazil is likely going to just throw it away (regardless of the fact that many people want it)...Guess there isn't really much of a shortage afterall. This is what is great about the MSM - they are so brazen about making things up the will ignore the fact that people can draw conclusions. They also can not resist the opportunity to make Trump look bad even it it exposes their narrative as a lie.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I was wondering why Australia which had been doing so well preventing viral spread has started having so many problems
the BBC are reporting that in Victoria "Random checks by police on 3,000 infected people had found more than 800 were not home isolating, as they were supposed to be."
which seems insane levels of stupidity and selfishness
(or something weird going on with support for those isolating that's not being reported? As far as i'm aware AUS does support people getting food/medication)
Seriously...at what point do you people making these accusations of stupidity have to own up to your own stupidity. Your predictive abilities are terrible. People are not going to self isolate for this amount of time. It is common sense.
You have two options...accept the fact that a majority of people are not going to obey soft mandates all the time or - make draconian laws that force people to follow them.
The lets hope people aren't going to be jerks strategy is not working. Yet...the world isn't actually ending so...maybe these people should just be allowed to live their lives? Accept the fact that a pandemic virus is going to come in contact with basically everyone regardless of what we do?
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/08/04 16:35:15
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: 90% of people with lupus are expected to live a normal life span. So if my math is right...10% will have a less than normal life span. Much like a host of other medical conditions that you wouldn't say "kill you" they are called morbities likehypertension/dyslipidemia/sleep apnea. These conditions don't kill you...a heart attack or in the case of Lupus like renal failure will kill you.
Big oof there. So, if you have hypertension and then a heart attack, you died because you had hypertension that lead to a heart attack. Hypertension is a condition that can and will kill you if left unchecked. If you have lupus and it causes you to go in to renal failure, you died because you had lupus that lead to renal failure. Do people not understand cause and effect?
This is why we can't have nice things.
Xenomancers wrote: The lets hope people aren't going to be jerks strategy is not working. Yet...the world isn't actually ending so...maybe these people should just be allowed to live their lives? Accept the fact that a pandemic virus is going to come in contact with basically everyone regardless of what we do?
You cannot possibly make that argument 4 months in to a pandemic. That is absurd. Things are getting worse, not better. They are getting worse at an alarming rate. The world as many people knew it their entire lives has already ended. Some people are trying to hold on to that life and they are risking the lives of others. Regardless of if the world is ending or not, stopping the spread and damage it causes to people should be a top priority.
Don't be a quitter.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 16:53:10
Xenomancers wrote: 90% of people with lupus are expected to live a normal life span. So if my math is right...10% will have a less than normal life span. Much like a host of other medical conditions that you wouldn't say "kill you" they are called morbities likehypertension/dyslipidemia/sleep apnea. These conditions don't kill you...a heart attack or in the case of Lupus like renal failure will kill you.
Big oof there. So, if you have hypertension and then a heart attack, you died because you had hypertension that lead to a heart attack. Hypertension is a condition that can and will kill you if left unchecked. If you have lupus and it causes you to go in to renal failure, you died because you had lupus that lead to renal failure. Do people not understand cause and effect?
This is why we can't have nice things.
Cause of death is the heart attack. Hypertension would be listed as a comorbidity.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: Yet...the world isn't actually ending so...maybe these people should just be allowed to live their lives? Accept the fact that a pandemic virus is going to come in contact with basically everyone regardless of what we do?
155,000+ Americans might disagree with you there.
Other countries have proven this can be controlled.
I think the big question is what the motivation behind the "just passively let mass deaths of the undesirables happen" movement are?
I prefer to buy from miniature manufacturers that *don't* support the overthrow of democracy.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Xenomancers wrote: Yet...the world isn't actually ending so...maybe these people should just be allowed to live their lives? Accept the fact that a pandemic virus is going to come in contact with basically everyone regardless of what we do?
155,000+ Americans might disagree with you there.
Other countries have proven this can be controlled.
I think the big question is what the motivation behind the "just passively let mass deaths of the undesirables happen" movement are?
Not taking very basic precautions, such as good personal hygiene, using hand sanitiser and wearing a mask, is essentially putting oneself right above the well-being of the next person.
That is incredibly selfish, and as such will not wash with me.
Hence my comparison to drink driving. If you’re stupid enough to have a skinful, then go for a drive? The risk is not solely to you. At all. Your stupidity can cause serious and potentially fatal harm to someone else
(Not having a pop at you, Scarletrose).
Similarly, if I feel inclined to have a good old Lemming style plummet off a motorway (freeway) bridge for reasons best know to myself, I’m at high risk of harming others.
Sure, they’ll have airbags and seatbelts etc. But my own idiot selfish up myself ‘muh freedom’ actions can still impact the life of others with literal life changing injuries. Sure, the driver of the other vehicle isn’t dead.....they’ve only lost a limb or three. BUT WHAT PRICE MY ABSOLUTE FREEDUMB?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 17:15:18
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Xenomancers wrote: 90% of people with lupus are expected to live a normal life span. So if my math is right...10% will have a less than normal life span. Much like a host of other medical conditions that you wouldn't say "kill you" they are called morbities likehypertension/dyslipidemia/sleep apnea. These conditions don't kill you...a heart attack or in the case of Lupus like renal failure will kill you.
Big oof there. So, if you have hypertension and then a heart attack, you died because you had hypertension that lead to a heart attack. Hypertension is a condition that can and will kill you if left unchecked. If you have lupus and it causes you to go in to renal failure, you died because you had lupus that lead to renal failure. Do people not understand cause and effect?
This is why we can't have nice things.
Cause of death is the heart attack. Hypertension would be listed as a comorbidity.
I see you didn't understand what I said about cause and effect. I also see you don't understand how death is "listed" lol
Xenomancers wrote: Yet...the world isn't actually ending so...maybe these people should just be allowed to live their lives? Accept the fact that a pandemic virus is going to come in contact with basically everyone regardless of what we do?
155,000+ Americans might disagree with you there.
Other countries have proven this can be controlled.
I think the big question is what the motivation behind the "just passively let mass deaths of the undesirables happen" movement are?
This is inaccurate. Other countries did a good job of keeping the virus out. A great example of why controlling your boarders is an important thing. On the other hand. MSM calls Trump as racist for closing the boarders. LOL. All countries that had outbreaks are still dealing with corona. It is not just the states. Honestly it's just temporary too in places like Japan/Singapore. 6th months from now they will loosen travel restrictions and it will pop up again or they can just deal with the lost of tourist revenues FOR EVER. Not happening.
Xenomancers wrote: 90% of people with lupus are expected to live a normal life span. So if my math is right...10% will have a less than normal life span. Much like a host of other medical conditions that you wouldn't say "kill you" they are called morbities likehypertension/dyslipidemia/sleep apnea. These conditions don't kill you...a heart attack or in the case of Lupus like renal failure will kill you.
Big oof there. So, if you have hypertension and then a heart attack, you died because you had hypertension that lead to a heart attack. Hypertension is a condition that can and will kill you if left unchecked. If you have lupus and it causes you to go in to renal failure, you died because you had lupus that lead to renal failure. Do people not understand cause and effect?
This is why we can't have nice things.
Cause of death is the heart attack. Hypertension would be listed as a comorbidity.
I see you didn't understand what I said about cause and effect. I also see you don't understand how death is "listed" lol
There is this thing called..."cause of death" it is going to say "Myocardial Infarction (of some type)" associated with (list of all confounding conditions)...are you actually just trolling? or do you just say things like "you do not understand" to make yourself feel smarter. Serious question?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 17:25:52
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Hey all, if I can make a request, we're trying to keep moderation light in this thread, and I understand this allows for some posting that often would get acted on elsewhere. However, I think a lot could be accomplished by not reacting to every post.
If someone is refusing to engage a core point and deflecting to other things, or is going to stake out the position that soiled underwear is a perfectly acceptable facemask, their mind isn't going to be changed by anything anyone says on an internet message board for fantasy toy soldiers, just ignore it and move on and keep in mind that such people exist and to take precautions accordingly when out and about. That'll help keep the thread a bit tidier and calmer overall. I understand how difficult it can be to not respond sometimes, but if it's not productive it's just wasted time on everyone's part.
Thanks!
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
I advocate blocking bad faith posters from contributing to the thread?
Because when they’re knowingly spreading false information, in light of the seriousness of the current situation? They’re literally a public health hazard.
Doesn’t matter their motivation, be it selfishness, lack of information, or “for the lulz”, they’re still a danger to public health.
One poster in particular has been so deliberately contrarian, I can only assume it’s the later.
That’s how we save this thread.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 17:44:27
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
I have no way of blocking people from specific threads (only the OT section in its entirety), Dakka has no rules against inhabiting an alternative reality or just being wrong, and to be fair, nobody should be relying on the DakkaDakka Off Topic Forum as their significant serious information source for Covid19.
That said, repeated nonsense postings that don't become part of conversations can be treated as spam. Likewise posts that are clearly flamebait can be reported and removed if judged to be such by a moderator, but if it's been quoted by multiple people and evolved into its own discussion, then it's kinda pointless to remove. It's more productive to just not take the bait in the first place.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 18:11:41
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Well my post just got deleted so I guess you guys win. Enjoy your echo chamber.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Vaktathi wrote: I have no way of blocking people from specific threads (only the OT section in its entirety), Dakka has no rules against inhabiting an alternative reality or just being wrong, and to be fair, nobody should be relying on the DakkaDakka Off Topic Forum as their significant serious information source for Covid19.
That said, repeated nonsense postings that don't become part of conversations can be treated as spam. Likewise posts that are clearly flamebait can be reported and removed if judged to be such by a moderator, but if it's been quoted by multiple people and evolved into its own discussion, then it's kinda pointless to remove. It's more productive to just not take the bait in the first place.
What exactly is the goal for this thread and the reason for having it? If it’s for discussing the various national responses to the COVID-19 pandemic it’s going to run afoul of politics and rule 1 violations. If it is for collecting breaking news then there’s not going to be much discussion and a lot of posts need to be pruned. It would likely improve mental health of everyone if you just locked the thread instead of indulging people’s compulsions to argue and get indignant about people not agreeing with them. Every couple pages there’s a string of posters and mods asking people to calm down and let things go followed by people rationalizing why they can’t and won’t let it go so what’s the point?
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
Vaktathi wrote: I have no way of blocking people from specific threads (only the OT section in its entirety), Dakka has no rules against inhabiting an alternative reality or just being wrong, and to be fair, nobody should be relying on the DakkaDakka Off Topic Forum as their significant serious information source for Covid19.
That said, repeated nonsense postings that don't become part of conversations can be treated as spam. Likewise posts that are clearly flamebait can be reported and removed if judged to be such by a moderator, but if it's been quoted by multiple people and evolved into its own discussion, then it's kinda pointless to remove. It's more productive to just not take the bait in the first place.
I disagree.
Here, we have a deliberately contrarian poster. They post up nonsense, and are then presented with facts and citations. Half of the factual and cited posts they refuse to answer, in preference of “pearl Clutching”, and acting the injured party because their utter, utter nonsense has no factual route.
Just....review the posts in this very thread since around 8am UK time to see what I mean. When someone’s nonsensical ( and medically, potentially life threatening) posts are primarily “how dare you disagree with me, with your facts, because you can prove anything” with facts? That is a problematic poster.
Someone who ignores logic, facts and reality......because of reasons best known to themself?
How can the Mod team allow such outright misinformation on an incredibly serious matter stand? I don’t want to see said poster banned, because I otherwise enjoy their contributions. But there has to be a moral and factual line drawn.
Imagine if I started a thread, telling other Dakkanauts not to believe the science and ‘Big Toaster’, and in fact sticking ones fully tumescent self into a toaster and then turning it on.
How quickly would you clamp down on me (and rightfully, because it’s clearly trolling) in that situation?
Review their posts. See the many, many flaws in their argument. See the lack of factual information. Regard the lack of citation. See the genuine danger to public health they present.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
People have repeatedly said they can't discuss this topic without talking about politics, and we've tried to allow as much leeway as we can on that front, but at some point it's just not working within the rules set out for the site.
Additionally, seeing people refusing to ignore others they disagree with, and campaigning within the thread for them to be blocked from posting instead, does make continuing here all that much more difficult.
For now, I'm going to lock the thread while we decide if we can move forward with it in some fashion. There are lots of places to discuss these things, that are honestly better suited to it. That might be the best path forward, in the end.
If you think the thread should be reopened feel free to PM me and I will pass it along to the mods for discussion. Thanks
Basically, N95 is the best (no surprise), cotton masks are surprisingly good (some are as good as N95), bandannas do nothing, and - this is the important part - fleece gaiters actually make it worse: they spread 110% droplets over wearing nothing. The fleece actually breaks larger droplets into many smaller ones that hang around longer.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: There’s a study now showing that Coronavirus has also been linked to long term brain damage. Looks like there will likely be a range of “Post Polio Syndrome” symptoms caused by the Coronavirus that afflicts people for years.
