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 Hulksmash wrote:
My bad. I accept the oopsies I have created. My head got it stuck as a meh autocannon.

I could totally see why you would think that, but at least you have some humility, a lot of people on this forum would rather argue in circles than just admit they were wrong and move on.

"Libby (warlord - lore master + shard) - ethereal manip + inner fire + vortex (can I do this, get access to both disciplines on one character?) "

I wouldn't say so, no one model should cast from the two different disciplines.

But for my local meta, we are allowing your WL to get an extra Dominus power if all his other powers are Dominus too.

 Waking Dreamer wrote:
"Libby (warlord - lore master + shard) - ethereal manip + inner fire + vortex (can I do this, get access to both disciplines on one character?) "

I wouldn't say so, no one model should cast from the two different disciplines.

But for my local meta, we are allowing your WL to get an extra Dominus power if all his other powers are Dominus too.

It only says you can't generate powers from both disciplines, no problems with casting them if you know them. The Lore Master trait states that the character simply 'knows' one more Santic power, just like how psykers automatically 'know' Smite, so no conflicting language or anything. IFAIK you can elect the order of things happening 'before the battle' so no issues there either.

Its up in the air at best I'd say, needs FAQ. To be honest allowing an extra Dominus power seems in direct conflict with the working of the WL Trait, but I guess no worries if everyone's happy to play it like that.

 Waking Dreamer wrote:
"Libby (warlord - lore master + shard) - ethereal manip + inner fire + vortex (can I do this, get access to both disciplines on one character?) "

I wouldn't say so, no one model should cast from the two different disciplines.

But for my local meta, we are allowing your WL to get an extra Dominus power if all his other powers are Dominus too.

I don't see any restriction on this (using Lore Master to know a spell from the other discipline).
I don't even see that type of restriction in the Space Marine codex, if they had this WL trait i'm pretty sure it would work too.

Edit: side note i've found the Apothacary to be the best choice for Inner Fire, hes less than 80 points, can heal himself after taking mortal wounds from Inner Fire, and is the perfect unit to burn with Dynamic Insertion and or Powerful Adept, giving you a cheap tactical nuke.

MiguelFelstone wrote:
I don't see any restriction on this (using Lore Master to know a spell from the other discipline).
I don't even see that type of restriction in the Space Marine codex, if they had this WL trait i'm pretty sure it would work too.

Spartacus wrote:


It only says you can't generate powers from both disciplines, no problems with casting them if you know them. The Lore Master trait states that the character simply 'knows' one more Santic power, just like how psykers automatically 'know' Smite, so no conflicting language or anything. IFAIK you can elect the order of things happening 'before the battle' so no issues there either.

Its up in the air at best I'd say, needs FAQ. To be honest allowing an extra Dominus power seems in direct conflict with the working of the WL Trait, but I guess no worries if everyone's happy to play it like that.

The terms "know" and "generate" is interchangeable and thus bound by the same restrictions.

Every datasheet for a GK psyker has this:

"It knows the Smite psychic power and [one/two/three] psychic power from the Sanctic discipline."

^ It doesn't really matter that it states that they already "know" one/two/three psychic powers from the Sanctic discipline. Before the start of the game you still have to "generate" every single Sanctic discipline power you want them to cast. Knowing a Sanctic psychic power as said in ALL their datasheets is no different as knowing an extra psychic power from Sanctic as said in the WL trait. Before you start the game, as soon as you CHOOSE a Sanctic power for the WL with Lore-master - you are generating that psychic power from that discipline. As you have always done for every single GK psyker unit, the WL trait never bypasses this process.

In regards to the new psychic rules it explicitly states:

"...(they cannot generate psychic powers from more than one psychic discipline)."

^ A GK character knowing powers from two different disciplines is exactly the same a generating powers from two different disciplines. And thus illegal.

In regards to Smite, that power doesn't actually belong to a different psychic discipline does it? It's inherent of being a psyker, so I wouldn't use it as an example to piggyback bypassing / breaking the rule. Because Smite doesn't do either.

 Waking Dreamer wrote:
The terms "know" and "generate" is interchangeable and thus bound by the same restrictions.

Honest question because i'd like to know, did you just pull this out of your butt or is this established somewhere? Granted i've only been playing 8th for so long i've never seen anything that supports the above (the rest of your argument is based on this assumption).

MiguelFelstone wrote:

 Waking Dreamer wrote:
The terms "know" and "generate" is interchangeable and thus bound by the same restrictions.

Honest question because i'd like to know, did you just pull this out of your butt or is this established somewhere? Granted i've only been playing 8th for so long i've never seen anything that supports the above (the rest of your argument is based on this assumption).

It was already thoroughly explained in the same post:

 Waking Dreamer wrote:
Every datasheet for a GK psyker has this:

"It knows the Smite psychic power and [one/two/three] psychic power from the Sanctic discipline."

^ It doesn't really matter that it states that they already "know" one/two/three psychic powers from the Sanctic discipline. Before the start of the game you still have to "generate" every single Sanctic discipline power you want them to cast. Knowing a Sanctic psychic power as said in ALL their datasheets is no different as knowing an extra psychic power from Sanctic as said in the WL trait. Before you start the game, as soon as you CHOOSE a Sanctic power for the WL with Lore-master - you are generating that psychic power from that discipline. As you have always done for every single GK psyker unit, the WL trait never bypasses this process.

^ Which part of this do you not understand exactly?

Do you not understand that when a GK datasheet says the psyker knows one psychic power from the Sanctic discipline - that before it can cast a psychic power from the Sanctic discipline in the game...you STILL have to generate that psychic power at the beginning of the game.

Do you not understand that in choosing and telling your opponent that your GK psyker unit has a psychic power, from either the Dominus or Sanctic discipline...that you are in fact automatically generating that psychic power for that unit to use in the game?

When your opponent asks you at the beginning of the game:

---------------
"So how many psychic powers does you GK Psyker know?"

GK player: "It knows two powers from the Sanctic Discipline."

"Cool. Okay so what are they?"

GK player: "It knows the Sanctuary and Gate of infinity" powers.
------------------

^ Do you not understand, that even though in that entire conversation NO ONE mentions the term "generate", that the GK player has inherently generated psychic powers from the Sactic discipline for his GK model?

I'll try to simplify it one more step:

A GK psyker unit cannot ever cast a particular psychic power from GK psychic discipline - without that particular GK psychic power needing to be FIRST generated for them to use/cast.

Pretty sure in the sm book a similar relic allows for a person to know spells from a different discipline. Could be wrong again though.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Pretty sure in the sm book a similar relic allows for a person to know spells from a different discipline. Could be wrong again though.

Yes, Tome of Malcador.

From the Spring FAQ

Q: If a Librarian in Phobos Armour has the Tome of Malcador Relic, does he know one additional power from the Librarius discipline or from the Obscuration discipline?

A: They know one additional power from the Librarius discipline.

I'm sure this will be FAQd soon as well to clear up any confusion.

Yeah, as it stands I'd say it does allow 2 separate disciplines unless an faq is released as that is the current stance of similar faqs.

MiguelFelstone wrote:

 Waking Dreamer wrote:
"Libby (warlord - lore master + shard) - ethereal manip + inner fire + vortex (can I do this, get access to both disciplines on one character?) "

I wouldn't say so, no one model should cast from the two different disciplines.

But for my local meta, we are allowing your WL to get an extra Dominus power if all his other powers are Dominus too.

I don't see any restriction on this (using Lore Master to know a spell from the other discipline).
I don't even see that type of restriction in the Space Marine codex, if they had this WL trait i'm pretty sure it would work too.

Edit: side note i've found the Apothacary to be the best choice for Inner Fire, hes less than 80 points, can heal himself after taking mortal wounds from Inner Fire, and is the perfect unit to burn with Dynamic Insertion and or Powerful Adept, giving you a cheap tactical nuke.

Wait, how many powers does the Ancient know?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

MiguelFelstone wrote:

 Waking Dreamer wrote:
"Libby (warlord - lore master + shard) - ethereal manip + inner fire + vortex (can I do this, get access to both disciplines on one character?) "

I wouldn't say so, no one model should cast from the two different disciplines.

But for my local meta, we are allowing your WL to get an extra Dominus power if all his other powers are Dominus too.

I don't see any restriction on this (using Lore Master to know a spell from the other discipline).
I don't even see that type of restriction in the Space Marine codex, if they had this WL trait i'm pretty sure it would work too.

Edit: side note i've found the Apothacary to be the best choice for Inner Fire, hes less than 80 points, can heal himself after taking mortal wounds from Inner Fire, and is the perfect unit to burn with Dynamic Insertion and or Powerful Adept, giving you a cheap tactical nuke.

Wait, how many powers does the Ancient know?

One.

MiguelFelstone wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

MiguelFelstone wrote:

 Waking Dreamer wrote:
"Libby (warlord - lore master + shard) - ethereal manip + inner fire + vortex (can I do this, get access to both disciplines on one character?) "

I wouldn't say so, no one model should cast from the two different disciplines.

But for my local meta, we are allowing your WL to get an extra Dominus power if all his other powers are Dominus too.

I don't see any restriction on this (using Lore Master to know a spell from the other discipline).
I don't even see that type of restriction in the Space Marine codex, if they had this WL trait i'm pretty sure it would work too.

Edit: side note i've found the Apothacary to be the best choice for Inner Fire, hes less than 80 points, can heal himself after taking mortal wounds from Inner Fire, and is the perfect unit to burn with Dynamic Insertion and or Powerful Adept, giving you a cheap tactical nuke.

Wait, how many powers does the Ancient know?

One.

Darn. Banner of Flame + Inner Fire would've been super cool.

You can still do it, Mental Focus for one cp to cast a second power.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

MiguelFelstone wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

MiguelFelstone wrote:

 Waking Dreamer wrote:
"Libby (warlord - lore master + shard) - ethereal manip + inner fire + vortex (can I do this, get access to both disciplines on one character?) "

I wouldn't say so, no one model should cast from the two different disciplines.

But for my local meta, we are allowing your WL to get an extra Dominus power if all his other powers are Dominus too.

I don't see any restriction on this (using Lore Master to know a spell from the other discipline).
I don't even see that type of restriction in the Space Marine codex, if they had this WL trait i'm pretty sure it would work too.

Edit: side note i've found the Apothacary to be the best choice for Inner Fire, hes less than 80 points, can heal himself after taking mortal wounds from Inner Fire, and is the perfect unit to burn with Dynamic Insertion and or Powerful Adept, giving you a cheap tactical nuke.

Wait, how many powers does the Ancient know?

One.

Darn. Banner of Flame + Inner Fire would've been super cool.

Seems like a waste of a relic slot / CP considering what we got in PA. 3.5 mortal wounds on avg is slightly better than super smite (at least it's consistent). Although the heavy weapons are nice, but you trade that for self healing and support for units like my Highlander Paladins.
I was seriously thinking about running 2 Apothecaries, keep one in DS until the first pops or drop him to steal an objective late game (he could easily kill a squad of Scouts or even Primaris Marines with a little luck).

Cant do it. Banner removes Rites so you cant do the increased range.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Cant do it. Banner removes Rites so you cant do the increased range.

Yup, hes not very good post PA, neither is Stern or Crowe for the same reason.

MiguelFelstone wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

MiguelFelstone wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

MiguelFelstone wrote:

 Waking Dreamer wrote:
"Libby (warlord - lore master + shard) - ethereal manip + inner fire + vortex (can I do this, get access to both disciplines on one character?) "

I wouldn't say so, no one model should cast from the two different disciplines.

But for my local meta, we are allowing your WL to get an extra Dominus power if all his other powers are Dominus too.

I don't see any restriction on this (using Lore Master to know a spell from the other discipline).
I don't even see that type of restriction in the Space Marine codex, if they had this WL trait i'm pretty sure it would work too.

Edit: side note i've found the Apothacary to be the best choice for Inner Fire, hes less than 80 points, can heal himself after taking mortal wounds from Inner Fire, and is the perfect unit to burn with Dynamic Insertion and or Powerful Adept, giving you a cheap tactical nuke.

Wait, how many powers does the Ancient know?

One.

Darn. Banner of Flame + Inner Fire would've been super cool.

Seems like a waste of a relic slot / CP considering what we got in PA. 3.5 mortal wounds on avg is slightly better than super smite (at least it's consistent). Although the heavy weapons are nice, but you trade that for self healing and support for units like my Highlander Paladins.
I was seriously thinking about running 2 Apothecaries, keep one in DS until the first pops or drop him to steal an objective late game (he could easily kill a squad of Scouts or even Primaris Marines with a little luck).

I think that the apothecary is better used as a pseudo cheap smash captain to deep strike with the paladins to try to heal some, or just to keep in countercharge in your deployment zone meanwhile holding objective perhaps as an extra body with the power to change tides or to generate CP. imao the main selling point is that is cheap, might have a dominus power, hit like a train in cc and can heal himself.

Fo psychic bomb I think that the best that we can bring now is the combo of bro captain with inner fire + banner with relic + Libby with purge should and vortex of doom and the relic to give+-1 to cast to nearby GK. Dynamic insert bro captain, cast purge soul with Libby and use the stat to give +1 to cast no nearby units, cast vortex of doom, extend the cast of inner fire with 6 inches and use psychic channeling for inner fire and unleash the rest. The problem is that is 3 CP + 1CP for potential rerolls plus expose 3 characters. But the number of delivered MW could be quite fun.

MiguelFelstone wrote:I don't know why people keep putting Stern in, he is absolutely terrible, you'd be much better off with a stock Brother Captain.

Yeah, if a special character is cheaper than his generic counterpart with the same wargear, you just know his special rules have to suck.

Homeskillet wrote:Pump the brakes! Crowe is a great chaff-clearing character. He's the bane of all big squads of T3 scrubs!

He's ok at clearing chaff, but he mostly needs close combat or really short ranged psychic powers to do that. By the time you hit close combat you generally already want to have cleared chaff. And with all those storm bolters in a GK army, do we really have that much trouble clearing chaff anyway that we need a dedicated character to do it?

MiguelFelstone wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Cant do it. Banner removes Rites so you cant do the increased range.

Yup, hes not very good post PA, neither is Stern or Crowe for the same reason.

Well the Banner of Refining Flame still does D6 damage, it just doesn't get the +1MW with ToE. It's not that D6 MW is suddenly bad or anything. But he's not a good target to use with Inner Fire no.

Waking Dreamer wrote:"Libby (warlord - lore master + shard) - ethereal manip + inner fire + vortex (can I do this, get access to both disciplines on one character?) "

I wouldn't say so, no one model should cast from the two different disciplines.

But for my local meta, we are allowing your WL to get an extra Dominus power if all his other powers are Dominus too.

I guess it depends on the order of events. Both selecting a Warlord Trait and generating powers are done before battle, so AFAIK you can determine the order of operations (although I couldn't find a rules quote on this, but also none that specify a certain order).

Ritual of the Damned says:

Instead of generating psychic powers from the Sanctic discipline, a GREY KNIGHTS CHARACTER model can generate an equivalent number of psychic powers from the Dominus discipline (they cannot generate psychic powers from more than one psychic discipline).

Take a GK Librarian: his datasheet says he knows the Smite psychic power and two psychic powers from the Sanctic discipline. If you give him the Lore Master trait, he now knows 3 Sanctic powers. Then you go and generate powers, and you can choose to generate an equivalent number of powers from the Dominus discipline, so you generate 3 Dominus powers.

But yes, definitely needs a FAQ/errata. The Tome of Malcador relic is different, because a Phobos Librarian doesn't technicaly have a rule that they cannot generate from both Librarius and Obscuration; they just normally can't generate from Librarius at all.

Im actually a big fan of Crowe. At 80 points for a 2/1 caster (with Character so he can access Dominus), character protection, a flat d6 smite, baked in full reroll to hit and wound he's an amusingly cheap slot filler and close in deterrent. He's not by any means a linchipin unit, but treat him right and he'll do serious work for you. I tend to run him as a wingman/bodyguard for a BroCap so he can work the 6" smite bubble.

Hey all!

We reviewed Grey Knights in ROD. If you're interested, you can check it out here.

https://www.grimdarkfilthycasuals.com/ritual-of-the-damned-grey-knights-review/

I'm not sure if dropping the 3rd battalion is worth it. Running the numbers in my head I could easily use 8-10 CP just on turn 2

- 2x psybolt (in psychic phase and then in shooting phase) + steady advance (if I need to reach out more than 12") maybe - 5
- dynamic insertion + powerful adept + surge + maybe channeling for inner fire bomb - 4

Seems worth it if I'm sitting on 17 regening a couple but with only 13 (2x bats plus something) I think that really limits what else the army can do. Without triple bat I'm not sure trying to plan an inner-fire bomb is worth it.

 wannabmoy wrote:
Hey all!

We reviewed Grey Knights in ROD. If you're interested, you can check it out here.

https://www.grimdarkfilthycasuals.com/ritual-of-the-damned-grey-knights-review/

Sanctic Shard: When a Psychic test is taken for a model with this Relic, you can re-roll the result. Add 1 to the total for Psychic tests taken for a model with this relic.
• Rating: 3/5

This is the best psyker relic in the game, and they gave it to arguably the best psyker army in 40k. It's an auto include regardless of what type of list your running.

You gave the same rating to the Techmarine relic FFS.

MiguelFelstone wrote:
This is the best psyker relic in the game, and they gave it to arguably the best psyker army in 40k. It's an auto include regardless of what type of list your running.

You gave the same rating to the Techmarine relic FFS.

It's awesome for avoiding Perils, it's awesome for Vortex/Inner Fire, and just overall getting powers to go off!

Sterling191 wrote:
Im actually a big fan of Crowe. At 80 points for a 2/1 caster (with Character so he can access Dominus), character protection, a flat d6 smite, baked in full reroll to hit and wound he's an amusingly cheap slot filler and close in deterrent. He's not by any means a linchipin unit, but treat him right and he'll do serious work for you. I tend to run him as a wingman/bodyguard for a BroCap so he can work the 6" smite bubble.

He is pretty good because he is cheap and gets a lot out of those 80 points. Certain units have just an invune save anyways so lacking AP is not a big deal. 1 Damage attacks is a big deal but with full rerolls and great saves you can tie up certain heros for a round then blast them in the face with a d6 smite.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bananathug wrote:
I'm not sure if dropping the 3rd battalion is worth it. Running the numbers in my head I could easily use 8-10 CP just on turn 2

- 2x psybolt (in psychic phase and then in shooting phase) + steady advance (if I need to reach out more than 12") maybe - 5
- dynamic insertion + powerful adept + surge + maybe channeling for inner fire bomb - 4

Seems worth it if I'm sitting on 17 regening a couple but with only 13 (2x bats plus something) I think that really limits what else the army can do. Without triple bat I'm not sure trying to plan an inner-fire bomb is worth it.

I came up with a very similar list for spamming CP. I think it's viable but with a 2x bat 1x Outrider you get a lot more front loaded damage from interceptors and save a lot of points on a 6th HQ. I figured it works out better but you could try it both ways. I have been unable to test it.

14 Feels fine. I run 2 batts and a vanguard detachment. Even with the pally unit it's relatively easy to have cp for what you need. Given that 14 is really 19-20 assuming you don't let your CP generator get sniped.

Generally I'm going down 1-2cp per turn after the generated one. Might end up with 3-4 used in turn 2/3. That still leaves a few for defensive or random strats/rerolls that might be useful.

MiguelFelstone wrote:

 wannabmoy wrote:
Hey all!

We reviewed Grey Knights in ROD. If you're interested, you can check it out here.

https://www.grimdarkfilthycasuals.com/ritual-of-the-damned-grey-knights-review/

Sanctic Shard: When a Psychic test is taken for a model with this Relic, you can re-roll the result. Add 1 to the total for Psychic tests taken for a model with this relic.
• Rating: 3/5

This is the best psyker relic in the game, and they gave it to arguably the best psyker army in 40k. It's an auto include regardless of what type of list your running.

You gave the same rating to the Techmarine relic FFS.

Very good points and appreciate the feedback!

 wannabmoy wrote:
Hey all!

We reviewed Grey Knights in ROD. If you're interested, you can check it out here.

https://www.grimdarkfilthycasuals.com/ritual-of-the-damned-grey-knights-review/

Keep up the good work!

A mid tier army now. Seconded. But still not really tourney ready.

True, jumping 2x 10 man interceptors into an opponents face T1 will remove all the screens, make them kill those 10 mans and open up the juicy guts to the smites from the rest of your army.

The shooting is much stronger with the support units you can drop in t2 but the interceptors don't have to shunt up t1. Its just trying to figure if the extra flexibility of additional interceptor units is worth 4 CP.

New iteration of the list I think I'm going with:

2x bats - 1x outrider comes in a 2k exactly (so satisfying)

HQs
2x BCs with hammers and psycannons (warp shaping, Emp Domi)
chapy (ethereal manip)
Libby (nulfier matrix, edict + inner fire/ethereal/armored?)
Draigo (hammerhand + ?? or armored + ???)

Troops
6x - 5 mans with psycannons halberds and staves (GOI, sanct)

L33ts
Apothecary (sanctic shard + inner fire)
Venerable Dread (astral aim) ML + TLC

FA
9 man with falchions (sanct)
2x 10 man with halberds + staves (goi)

I think I'm going to wait for the PA FAQ (for the 2 disciplines for the libby) and CA 2019 FAQ (if that ever comes out) before I go full bore buying this thing but it seems like it would be really fun to play, give tactical options vs most lists and not be iron hands.

Still worried about CP being tight and getting blown off the board t2. If anyone has experience piloting anything like this and can talk me off my hype-train let me know.

True, jumping 2x 10 man interceptors into an opponents face T1 will remove all the screens, make them kill those 10 mans and open up the juicy guts to the smites from the rest of your army.

The shooting is much stronger with the support units you can drop in t2 but the interceptors don't have to shunt up t1. Its just trying to figure if the extra flexibility of additional interceptor units is worth 4 CP.

Keep the interceptors hidden in your backfield and organize a massive strike in t2 via shunting, deep striking and goi.
Arriving in pieces will blow your army apart too easily.