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 _SeeD_ wrote:
Grey Knights are the most tactical and strategic army in the game, yes or no?

I try to refrain form sweeping statements, but you do have a decent amount of "master-planning" while still being able to flex still your strategy a decent bit on the fly with Gate of infinity, Shunt, and application of stratagems. It plays a lot like Genestealer cult; you have a decent amount of flexibility but also the possibility of over/under-committing and losing the game. It's a very rewarding army to play when everything comes together, even if it's just invincible Paladins shooting from out of LOS cause you had a whole lot of inputs to make that happen and also everyone else cause it's time for GK to actually be good.

 _SeeD_ wrote:
Grey Knights are the most tactical and strategic army in the game, yes or no?

This superlative is not really correct.
All elite armies require tactics, knowledge and skill.
Elite is usually defined by low model count or high model cost of all models in the army, not just armies that have a single high-cost model.
This holds not only for GK, but for several armies in the 40k universe.
Playing an elite armies is often a challenge and usually requires practice, practice, practice ....

 wuestenfux wrote:

 _SeeD_ wrote:
Just so you guys know, there's a great Grey Knight group on facebook. Ask for an invitation here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/40KGreyKnights
Also a reddit group here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Grey_Knights/
Discord here:
https://discord.gg/TUb4NxZ

Dakka is the ultimate forum. Hands down.

Dakka might be the ultimate forum for general 40K or wargaming stuff, but if you're looking for discussions on specific topics you can find better elsewhere. For example, the last response on this thread was April 24th, over two weeks ago. The GK subreddit linked above is active every day.

 undertow wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 _SeeD_ wrote:
Just so you guys know, there's a great Grey Knight group on facebook. Ask for an invitation here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/40KGreyKnights
Also a reddit group here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Grey_Knights/
Discord here:
https://discord.gg/TUb4NxZ

Dakka is the ultimate forum. Hands down.

Dakka might be the ultimate forum for general 40K or wargaming stuff, but if you're looking for discussions on specific topics you can find better elsewhere. For example, the last response on this thread was April 24th, over two weeks ago. The GK subreddit linked above is active every day.

However we've already gone over all the ideas here, and I doubt they're gonna reveal anything on Discord not discussed here already.

I was looking at the Warhammer community reveals of the next 40k 9th edition.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/04/taking-command-of-your-pointsgw-homepage-post-1/

Just thinking that for maximizing CP our HQ sot will become the most disputed one. Only 3 HQ slots to fill all the dominus powers + redundancy that we need seems rather short. At least if we want to add some support characters like a chaplain for litanies or brother captain for smite range.

Perhaps to add apothecaries or banners to bring dominus powers could be necessary.

just doing some theory crafting with the little that we currently know about.

We do have some characters in the elites slot that can help out, but blowing a CP or two (especially given that we have a regen psychic power) on a supreme command might not be a bad idea. It’s ironic that podcasters and other are saying how great this is for “armies like GK that have trouble generating CP”...GK troops cost the same as Primaris intercessors and aren’t a tax after PA; lots of people are running double battalion.

I did look at brigades when PA dropped but ultimately the heavy support slots became a tax, I could usefully fill 2 but not 3.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/09/tanks-are-back-on-trackgw-homepage-post-1/

Looks like our NDK and GMNDK would be able to shoot their heavy weapons in CC and also they won´t suffer penalties for moving and shooting.

I can see they CC output boosted quite a lot with. Potentially becoming one of the powerhouses in CC out there.

The heavy gatling and the heavy incinerator should be able to deal quite well against chaff in CC and the sword and the hammer against heavy targets. This of course if they can survive...

psipso wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/09/tanks-are-back-on-trackgw-homepage-post-1/

Looks like our NDK and GMNDK would be able to shoot their heavy weapons in CC and also they won´t suffer penalties for moving and shooting.

I can see they CC output boosted quite a lot with. Potentially becoming one of the powerhouses in CC out there.

The heavy gatling and the heavy incinerator should be able to deal quite well against chaff in CC and the sword and the hammer against heavy targets. This of course if they can survive...

I still feel bad that Tide of Guns doesn't work for NDKs. But having seen the new vehicle rules, I can't help but think MAYBE they were future-proofing, and didn't want a 6x NDK list that no one ever wants to charge.

Well, GK got a boost by the latest book on psionic awakening.
The new ed will shift the meta and our new hot lists (see GT Bournemouth) are now in question.
What a pity.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, GK got a boost by the latest book on psionic awakening.
The new ed will shift the meta and our new hot lists (see GT Bournemouth) are now in question.
What a pity.

I haven’t seen anything in the previews that indicates GK are in trouble with the new edition. Our Paladin list will play largely unchanged, and there’s a lot of other stuff that will still be good (and stuff like DKs will get better). I’ve always thought double-Paladin was going to be short-lived because people always figure out how to deal with deathstars.

 greyknight12 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, GK got a boost by the latest book on psionic awakening.
The new ed will shift the meta and our new hot lists (see GT Bournemouth) are now in question.
What a pity.

I haven’t seen anything in the previews that indicates GK are in trouble with the new edition. Our Paladin list will play largely unchanged, and there’s a lot of other stuff that will still be good (and stuff like DKs will get better). I’ve always thought double-Paladin was going to be short-lived because people always figure out how to deal with deathstars.

Besides the DKs, we need a Chaplain Venerable Dread.

So... gw said the New bikers will Look great in grey.
Are we getting primaris stuff?

 greyknight12 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, GK got a boost by the latest book on psionic awakening.
The new ed will shift the meta and our new hot lists (see GT Bournemouth) are now in question.
What a pity.

I haven’t seen anything in the previews that indicates GK are in trouble with the new edition. Our Paladin list will play largely unchanged, and there’s a lot of other stuff that will still be good (and stuff like DKs will get better). I’ve always thought double-Paladin was going to be short-lived because people always figure out how to deal with deathstars.

With focus on elites the MW spam GK's can do is if anything even more powerful than before. One thing to MW's 4 pts model. Another 20 pts models. With hordes going away the MW's are going to be relatively lot more damaging.

I wouldn't worry too much. Less HQ slots is inconvenient but compared to nerfs several other factions are getting that's minor.

Aeri wrote:
So... gw said the New bikers will Look great in grey.
Are we getting primaris stuff?

Space Wolves and unpainted plastic are both grey. It was either a joke or a reference to SW.

Keep your hopes low

Aeri wrote:
So... gw said the New bikers will Look great in grey.
Are we getting primaris stuff?

The hyperlink for that text lead to the Space Wolves start collecting

Good news from today’s reveal: it won’t cost CP to reserve units that already have a way to do it (like deepstrike). No reveals yet on whether the “50% rule” for reserves is changing.

Now that Assassins won’t break Tides, does anyone see utility in adding one? I’ve been eyeing the Vindicare despite previous disappointments since we otherwise don’t have snipers/character targeting.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Now that Assassins won’t break Tides, does anyone see utility in adding one? I’ve been eyeing the Vindicare despite previous disappointments since we otherwise don’t have snipers/character targeting.

The Vindicare seems to be the only playable assassin.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
Now that Assassins won’t break Tides, does anyone see utility in adding one? I’ve been eyeing the Vindicare despite previous disappointments since we otherwise don’t have snipers/character targeting.

The Vindicare seems to be the only playable assassin.

I'd say that the Callidus's "spend extra CP" ability is pretty good. She really shines when you're up against a T3 opponent (the lower toughness is usually also paired with fewer wounds than Marine characters) and you can DS snipe some backfield stuff.

We'll have to hope that Vindicare keeps the 8e "no targetting if not closest" rule, or else you're gonna have to have Strikers babysitting him
Which then means he'll have to set up in the same spaces your GKSS could deploy on T1, which greatly reduces his choice of shooting corridors.
His -2 to hit will still be relevant, since it will cancel out any +1 to hit your opponent might throw at him.

The Grey Knights Faction Focus is out today. Sadly, there's really nothing at all there except the strong, subtle push towards needing two detachments.
I suspect I'll be taking a Battalion and either a Supreme Command or a Vanguard (depending on the CP cost of each).
I like having many units on the table for board control, so GKSS are, for me, a necessity. (It also allows more Sanctic casting, which is good). Being capped at 3 HQs is not good, considering I want a named character, a Chappie, 1-2 Libbies, a BroCpt, and perhaps a GMDK (or two).

The list I'm thinking about currently is:

Libby
Voldus
GMDK
3x GKSS
2x NDK

Chappie
BroCapt
Apothecary (suicide)
Apothecary
Pallies
Ven Dread

Can also add a Chaos fighting Sister and Harlequin without breaking anything

Psyk-out grenades are on the leaked list of “blast weapons”. Not sure how useful it is since against large daemon hordes you’re probably getting more mileage out of your storm bolter.

Assume reroll 1s for a GM.
Against Pinks you get 1.04 SB wounds and 1.09 psyk wounds (that includes mortals)
Against Plaguies you get 0.52 SB wounds and 0.7 psyk wounds (that includes mortals)
Against BLs and Girls you get 1.38 SB wounds and 1.09 psyk wounds (that includes mortals)

I used an online calculator that doesn't have an auto-wound option, so the psyk-out wounds should be a tad higher (best I could do is wound on 2s and reroll).
But overall they're pretty comparable. The fewer shots that bypass saves even out with the higher shots and higher str.

As usual, PBs are stupid. It takes two GK bodies to kill a 7pt model in shooting.

I hope I can field my 7thed Army (Imp. knight, some characters and some Terminators/MEQSand an assassin) without getting roflstomped

After a first reading the leaked rules there seems not tooo much change for us overall:

- Cant Cast after Fallback
- We can still Deepstrike without CP, still not Turn 1 and still max 50%
- As per the Core Rules, you can cast infinite smites per modell, I expect this will get restricted in matched play rules or FAQ
- Doing a Psychic Action (for VPs) costs ALL Casts

Only Biggie:

- You have to cast all powers from a modell before choosing the next one. Cant Sanctuary with a GMNDK, Gate him to the front with another unit and then smite with him :(

stormcraft wrote:
After a first reading the leaked rules there seems not tooo much change for us overall:

- Cant Cast after Fallback
- We can still Deepstrike without CP, still not Turn 1 and still max 50%
- As per the Core Rules, you can cast infinite smites per modell, I expect this will get restricted in matched play rules or FAQ
- Doing a Psychic Action (for VPs) costs ALL Casts

Only Biggie:

- You have to cast all powers from a modell before choosing the next one. Cant Sanctuary with a GMNDK, Gate him to the front with another unit and then smite with him :(

Can also use all casts of the character on multiple Smites at the moment.

Edit: Am stupid and can't read.

- Have to reroll all dice for a Psychic Test or a Charge like in KillTeam when using the ReRoll Strat

This one sucks,makes charges from deepstrike even more unreliably, but on the other hand you cann reroll 1+1,1+2 and that sort of bad charge rolls....

- The reroll before modifiers rule seems to be gone, that would be buff to Draigo

-Hit and wound modifiers are Capped to -1, so you can move your Heavy wepaons on Infantry without further penalty if the enemy already has a -1 Rule.

Just recalculated a list I want to try in 9e.

Everything went up in points. This list specifically went up 205pts.

GKSS start at 20pts now, with a halberd and a SB. That's up from 18. My basic squad of 4 halbs and a psilencer went from 85pts to 100. Seems like the bad old days of start of 8e again.

Paladins increased 6pts, so a squad of 10 is minimum 60pts more. A pair of falchions are now 4pts instead of 2, and SBs are 3pts now, so that adds to the insult.
A Paladin with a halberd and SB went from 44 to 50pts. A Paladin with falchions and SB went from 45 to 54.

Dreadknights with teleporters, fists, and flamers went from 144 to 161ish.

Big changes!

Not to be doom and gloom, but neither the GK nor the TSons FAQ mentioned being exempt from the “+1 to cast” penalty for Smite. Since it’s a core rule now I expected the faction FAQs to have it; I honestly don’t know where else they would put it. So our smite spam option might be off the table.

Well, the pt increases for GKSS and Paladins seem to bring GK back into the stone age.
Sad to see.
Somebody eager to compute the 2nd-ranked GK list of the GT event at Bournemouth in February 2020.