Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

9th edition FAQ are avaliable

I wonder about this one:

The advanced rules for Command points state that you cannot
gain, or have refunded, more than 1 Command point per battle
round because of any rules (other than via the exceptions listed
on page 245, such as the Battle-forged CP Bonus)

since we gain 1 CP every command phase form being battle forged, wouldnt that mean that our Empyrean Domination Dominus Disciple would be useless as we cant get more than 1 CP ..

The battle forged bonus is one of the explicit exceptions listed (and in fact is even directly referenced in the FAQ).

ah thanks for clarifying, so it is still useful to have to get 2 CP back per round

Based on a leaked image for a Terminator unit datasheet...

Terminators have 3 Wounds now!

For Grey Knights this is really big, as we are the only faction that has Terminators as troops and thus ObSec, which is key to missions in 9Ed. Not to mention the majority of our HQ/Characters come stock in Terminator Armour!

So many, many questions now, does this mean:

- Paladins = 4W
- Librarians, Apothecary, Chaplains, Ancients = 6W
- Brother Captains, Grand Masters = 7W
- Draigo = 8W...!

How will this effect our Strikes vs Terminator choices now? Or our Terminator vs Paladin choices?

Could our GK army reach Custodes-level of wounds per model?

Many play-testers have said that even with the new core-rules and 9Ed point changes already released, we were still missing "a third" of the complete picture. It looks like drastic datasheet changes, weapon profile changes (eg. power swords +1S, heavy flamer 12" range) is part of that missing piece.

This is a real shake up to our (and many other) army's unit compositions and load-outs! Crazy stuff!

I would hold back on big hopes, remember how 8th edition palyed out when GW "forgot" about the Knights almost all fhe time and took over one year until physic awakening to fix a lot of our glaring problems ...

I would be happy if paladins get 3 and Terminators 2 .. 4/3 would be even better but it feels like they are going to save the best stuff for primaris alone

 FFridge wrote:
I would be happy if paladins get 3 and Terminators 2 .. 4/3 would be even better but it feels like they are going to save the best stuff for primaris alone

There is certainly the possibility that GW is only giving +1W to "Veteran-level" Firstborn SM...which casts doubt for our Terminators getting any boost, since as per the 8Ed Codex - GKT only have Ld7/8...as they are not as experienced as the Terminator units of every other SM/CSM Terminators.

It's good that you would be happy with 2W GKT and 3W Paladins (as it is now), but if every other Terminator model comes stock with 3W (something they have deserved for a long time), I would be undeniably shattered. Currently at the points they are now, if standard Terminators received 3W...compared to say Primaris Aggressors / Bladeguard (which also have 3W), the points difference for the stats / abilities become much more comparable - with the Primaris still getting much more benefits for costing just that little bit more.

Currently, we pay a little bit more points for our GKT compared to normal Terminators (for the psyker status), but we basically have the same stat-line 2W etc. (-1 Ld though) for a total cost of about 36 vs 38 pts per model. Giving normal Terminators 3W (again something they deserve) for similar points as they are now, bumps them to comparability to their Primaris counterparts. Even if Terminators end up paying a couple more points per model that's about equal points to our GKT - but the normal Terminator squad will come with an extra 5 wounds for the same price. For the possibility of a 12" 1MW smite, or a psychic cast per turn doesn't really balance for the 5 wounds less they have to similarly priced, regular terminator squad Imo.

Thinking about it, it's probable Paladins will stay 3W even at around 50ppm (they still have +1A,+1 Special weapon, +1WS on the Paragon). But, it's really hard to swallow that out of every single Terminator variant in the whole game, only our GKT are unworthy of 3W. You're right that it could certainly be the case, but right now I couldn't be okay with it.

TheBoy wrote:

I don't think the smite nerf is as bad as everyone says. Start battle forged that's +1 to cast so a 4+ smite then empyric surge. Second smite goes off on a 4+ third smite goes off on 5+ after that units start getting affected by the ability. But I personally don't always smite unless it's a daemon army I'm fighting. Hammerhand is more viable now as we don't have to worry about overwatch as often. I'd still use brother captains but if you wanted to you could always just run em as grand masters or librarians.

The Brother Captain's sole selling point if the fact that he increased the army's Smite range to 24". Now that he can't provide a castle of dudes long range reliable smites in tide of escalation he, and tide of escalation itself, are functionally useless. It also neuters our psychic game in general because our smites are short-ranged baby smites to compensate for the fact that we could once spam them like no other faction could. Now we get the same cap as everyone else with inferior smites even on characters.

I also hope no one was particularly fond of strike squads (I was), since their big selling point besides being cheaper than terminators was that they were more efficient smite platforms during tide of escalation or even outside of it. 9th edition and its focus on durable units to claim and hold objectives already made them less valuable, but this probably kills them.

It's a garbage change.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

TheBoy wrote:

I don't think the smite nerf is as bad as everyone says. Start battle forged that's +1 to cast so a 4+ smite then empyric surge. Second smite goes off on a 4+ third smite goes off on 5+ after that units start getting affected by the ability. But I personally don't always smite unless it's a daemon army I'm fighting. Hammerhand is more viable now as we don't have to worry about overwatch as often. I'd still use brother captains but if you wanted to you could always just run em as grand masters or librarians.

The Brother Captain's sole selling point if the fact that he increased the army's Smite range to 24". Now that he can't provide a castle of dudes long range reliable smites in tide of escalation he, and tide of escalation itself, are functionally useless. It also neuters our psychic game in general because our smites are short-ranged baby smites to compensate for the fact that we could once spam them like no other faction could. Now we get the same cap as everyone else with inferior smites even on characters.

I also hope no one was particularly fond of strike squads (I was), since their big selling point besides being cheaper than terminators was that they were more efficient smite platforms during tide of escalation or even outside of it. 9th edition and its focus on durable units to claim and hold objectives already made them less valuable, but this probably kills them.

It's a garbage change.

I bought 30 dudes from a friend(((

I think that I'm okey with the changes of smite nerf. Because we have tides of escalation now is not as a big deal as it was at the beginning of 8th edition when we got a simial treatment. On average a baby smite in tides of escalation is dealing a similar amount of MW than a regular smite. Perhaps we lose super smite but we have a +1 to cast.

I think that the problem is mostly for the bonus of the brother captain. I think that he also should boost range for purifiers to make him and the purifiers more viable.

Another thing that imao should be granted, at least fluff wise, but also balance-wise is some sort of protection from perils. In theory one of the strongest points of GK is to be totally incorruptible and to harness total self-restraint against the temptation and perils of the warp. That's the explanation fluff wise of the baby smite rule.

The fact that during the course of a battle I was able to see several perils happen is so un-fluff. Many times I just don't cast smite because of the chance to get perils and lose the whole unit.

Strike units use to be 5 men and each MW is one 17 ppm > model less which also are troop and therefore more likely to been used to hold an objective. So tactical wise the consequence to peril in a strike squad is more sever to perils in a 5-6 wounds character. As the character can fully work with just 1 wound. But a strike squad of 2 marines is heavily hindered.

I think that a cool rule that also will compensate the nerf of the bro captain is something like when not in tides of escalation only peril when casting smite in double 6 instead of double 1 and double 6.

Strike Squads going up to 2 wounds.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-boxes-new-rules-new-codexes/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40K&utm_content=40knewrules13082020&fbclid=IwAR0XkTR9066_jwv3waLGJmQYq8Ya9hqIpI7zF7gb9f0DucnuMvBVUDW6PmA

psipso wrote:
I think that I'm okey with the changes of smite nerf. Because we have tides of escalation now is not as a big deal as it was at the beginning of 8th edition when we got a simial treatment. On average a baby smite in tides of escalation is dealing a similar amount of MW than a regular smite. Perhaps we lose super smite but we have a +1 to cast.

I think that the problem is mostly for the bonus of the brother captain. I think that he also should boost range for purifiers to make him and the purifiers more viable.

Bro-Caps already do that though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Timur wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

I also hope no one was particularly fond of strike squads (I was), since their big selling point besides being cheaper than terminators was that they were more efficient smite platforms during tide of escalation or even outside of it. 9th edition and its focus on durable units to claim and hold objectives already made them less valuable, but this probably kills them.

It's a garbage change.

I bought 30 dudes from a friend(((

Strikes are getting 2W each now, so it would be 2W SS vs 3W GKT.

Problem is still, even with 2W the Strikes are not gonna hold much because of the amount of 2 and 2+ damage weapons going around.

what use is raising the wounds of a unit if it gets "oneshot" for every succesful wound?

Thats what might make Terminators better than SS in the end

So what do you guys think our melee profiles will look like considering the base power sword went to +1s
If they push up the S bonus of our swords (probably should be +2 since they are 2handed swords compared to the little power swords marines have)
where does that leave the halberd ?

Emulgator wrote:
So what do you guys think our melee profiles will look like considering the base power sword went to +1s
If they push up the S bonus of our swords (probably should be +2 since they are 2handed swords compared to the little power swords marines have)
where does that leave the halberd ?

Conservatively I'd say the following:

- Nemesis Twin Falchions = S User AP-2 Dd3 (+1A)
- Nemesis Force Sword = S+1 AP-3 Dd3
- Nemesis Force Halberd = S+2 AP-2 Dd3
- NemesisWarding Stave = S+3 AP-1 Dd3
- Nemesis Daemonhammer = Sx2 AP-3 D4

My wish-listing would change Damage d3 to Damage d2+1 (since all fully-trained SM start at 2W now).

Also, since heavy flamers are 12" range and Heavy bolters are D2, hopefully GW will be generous enough to give our Incinerators 12" range and psycannons D2. Heavy psycannons wish-listing would be a flat Damage 3. Super wish-listing is if the Twin-Psycannons costs 2x Heavy Psycannon (eg. 50 points)...why not also give them the profile of 2x Heavy psycannons...? Crazy idea I know, but c'mon GW humour me just this once...??

 Waking Dreamer wrote:


Conservatively I'd say the following:

- Nemesis Twin Falchions = S User AP-2 Dd3 (+1A)
- Nemesis Force Sword = S+1 AP-3 Dd3
- Nemesis Force Halberd = S+2 AP-2 Dd3
- NemesisWarding Stave = S+3 AP-1 Dd3
- Nemesis Daemonhammer = Sx2 AP-3 D4

These numbers look very reasonable, except I'd say that Staves are still S+2 since they have the invuln special rule. If this is what happens, I'll move away from halberds and have everyone with swords. The difference between S5 and S6 is pretty negligible game-wide.

I have a casual flowchart inside my head when determining which weapons I'd rather have (statistically). First I want what hits the best. Then I want what wounds the best. Then (depending on optimal targets) I want good damage. And then finally I look at AP. I'd rather be in a better wounding bracket than an additional AP, for example.

kinda makes sense that swords would be the best choice since after changing all halberds to falchions in 8th its only natural to have to clip off all those arms for 9th again lol

if swords go to +1s i guess falchions at 4pts for +1A but -1s and -1ap seems like a hard pill to swallow (especially since interecessors only pay 2 points to have 1 more attack compared to marinelets)

for halberds id actually like to have a rule to always strike first like when they used to give +2 initiative but thats probably too strong/too much to wish for ^^
maybe if they were costed properly/expensive`ish so youd only take 1-2 per squad and go more for a mixed weapon approach (like 1 hammer 1 staff 2 halbs 2 swords for 5man)

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 Waking Dreamer wrote:


Conservatively I'd say the following:

- Nemesis Twin Falchions = S User AP-2 Dd3 (+1A)
- Nemesis Force Sword = S+1 AP-3 Dd3
- Nemesis Force Halberd = S+2 AP-2 Dd3
- NemesisWarding Stave = S+3 AP-1 Dd3
- Nemesis Daemonhammer = Sx2 AP-3 D4

These numbers look very reasonable, except I'd say that Staves are still S+2 since they have the invuln special rule. If this is what happens, I'll move away from halberds and have everyone with swords. The difference between S5 and S6 is pretty negligible game-wide.

Personally, I'd plan to split the loadout between Halberds and Swords about evenly.

Death Guard, Custodes (particularly T6 jetbikes), Centurions, Primaris Outriders and Aggressors are tough opponents for us in combat. Sure, Hammerhand can help T5 Swords wound T5 on 3+ or T6 on 4+, but you can only ever cast that on 1 squad per turn, and even then the power could fail or be denied, in which case you're wounding tough targets on 4+ or even 5+ base.

I'd rather have some of my models wounding T5 on 3+ naturally, and worse case scenario wound those T6 Custodes jetbikes on 4+. That is, if all the weapons but the Daemonhammer end up costing the same. Twin-Falchions should also cost the same as the other weapons with those estimated stat-lines.

 Orodhen wrote:
Strike Squads going up to 2 wounds.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-boxes-new-rules-new-codexes/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40K&utm_content=40knewrules13082020&fbclid=IwAR0XkTR9066_jwv3waLGJmQYq8Ya9hqIpI7zF7gb9f0DucnuMvBVUDW6PmA

This is absolutely great. It was just a dream before.
Now Termies will get 3W and Paladins 4W without pt increase?

How are Brother-Captain Stern and Castellan Crowe?

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Orodhen wrote:
Strike Squads going up to 2 wounds.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-boxes-new-rules-new-codexes/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40K&utm_content=40knewrules13082020&fbclid=IwAR0XkTR9066_jwv3waLGJmQYq8Ya9hqIpI7zF7gb9f0DucnuMvBVUDW6PmA

This is absolutely great. It was just a dream before.
Now Termies will get 3W and Paladins 4W without pt increase?

No. Even tacs are going up with their extra wound.

No. Even tacs are going up with their extra wound.

Well, I don't care about Tacticals. Nobody played them recently.
But Strikes are our basic troops and now much more viable.

Emulgator wrote:
kinda makes sense that swords would be the best choice since after changing all halberds to falchions in 8th its only natural to have to clip off all those arms for 9th again lol

This is why I always magnetize my models. All of my 30 Strikes and 10 Interceptors are magnetized at the shoulder, same with my 20 Terminator/Paladin models. The 'best' weapon always changes, so it's nice to be able to swap that stuff around.

If now with firstborn marines having 2 wounds purifiers will be worth considering?

They have this strat that can give them a 4++. With 2 wounds per model suddenly this start becomes more efficient. I also dunno if adding sanctuary they can get a 3++. But if so, then they might be able to hold an objective quite decently.

Has anyone tried regular dreadknights in 9th yet?

 greyknight12 wrote:
Has anyone tried regular dreadknights in 9th yet?

I've experimented a bit between NDK and GMDK. The 50pts is definitely worth it. The NDK got a 9e buff with shooting while engaged and getting to move and shoot without penalty.
But the difference between BS3+ and BS2+ reroll 1s is absurd. The GMDK NEVER misses (with both guns, statistically it's 17.5 hits) compared to the NDK (with only 12 hits).
So Psychic Onslaught is therefore incredibly more CP-efficient on a GMDK.

I still like my flamer/fists NDK coming in from DS. But I will keep the shooting with the GMDK.

The same GK player (Ben Cherwin) who took the previous 3rd Place list, also participated in the recent Flying Monkey GT. He was placed 10th (out of 74), and was the highest ranked GK player at the tourney. He adjusted his list though to this:

HQ
- GMNDK (WLT - First to the Fray, Greathammer, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Augurium Scrolls, Teleporter, GoI)
- GMNDK (Greathammer, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Teleporter, Sanctuary)
- Draigo (Edict Imperator, Inner Flame)

TROOPS
- Terminator Squad x5 (Psilencer, GoI)
- Terminator Squad x5 (Sanctuary)
- Terminator Squad x5 (GoI)
- Terminator Squad x5 (Hammerhand)

ELITES
- Venerable Dread (Lascannon/ML Astral Aim)
- Servitors x4

TRANSPORTS
- Lascannon Razorback
- Lascannon Razorback
- Lascannon Razorback

-----------------------------------------

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looks like this is the list in action:

https://m.twitch.tv/videos/711048944

GK vs GK! Which is the superior GK build?

Strikes + Paladin Bomb vs GMNDKs + Lascannon Razorbacks?

The opposing GK player army list:

HQ
- GMNDK (WLT - Lore Master, Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Teleporter, Santic Shard)
- Voldus (Edict Imperator, Warp Shaping, Empyrean Domination)
- Draigo (Armoured Resilience, Inner flame)

TROOPS
- Strike Squad x10
- Strike Squad x5
- Terminator Squad x5

ELITES
- Paladins x10 (4 Psycannons)
- Venerable Dread (Lascannon / CCW)

In the GK Facebook group there is a bit of not-so-friendly rivalry between Ben and Matthew (the other GK list, which beat Ben’s). Bear in mind the tournament ruled to agree with Ben Cherwim that Tide of Shadows gives -1 to hit in the open so people never left Shadows.

 greyknight12 wrote:
In the GK Facebook group there is a bit of not-so-friendly rivalry between Ben and Matthew (the other GK list, which beat Ben’s). Bear in mind the tournament ruled to agree with Ben Cherwim that Tide of Shadows gives -1 to hit in the open so people never left Shadows.

which is wrong and its why i dont trust the List or skills of Ben at all .. If you have to resort to shenanigans to make your list work (for example how he had 2050 points in his first list) then you most likely dont understand your army fully. I dont even know why the tournament organizators would allow such a rule to exist.

Is that a typo or did he actually have 4 units of servitors? Isn't that illegal?

Rihgu wrote:
Is that a typo or did he actually have 4 units of servitors? Isn't that illegal?

Actually, it's a single unit of 4 Servitor models.