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 warboss wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

That looks remarkably advanced for Imperials and even 40k in general. It doesn't have the wonky dark fantasy horror of the admech and is sleeker even than the new primaris stuff. It seems like it fits better in a universe like AT-43's UNA. This isn't a complaint btw as I actually like the design.

I knew someone was going to make this post… the answer is they have a freaking STC system. Fully functional.

That doesn't necessarily explain the difference in aesthetics. Genestealer cult environmental suits are STC tech, as is the Rhino hull, for example, and they're not sleek and rounded.

It's easily explained away by different STCs producing different specifics even with the same input, but the Van Saar look is definitely distinct from what we've generally come to expect of 40K's human high technology.

zamerion wrote:

I do love the art in the newcomunda books - sigh best get this one too!

When you look at some of the theme forces for the Imperial Guard there is a vast range of designs on show. When you read the lore you realise that there are regiments that look and are designed very sleek and modern; others very rough and ready; some are in full parade dress with bright flamboyant and totally impractical dress.

The setting has an overall gothic theme and the Imperial designs have that as well; but that doesn't mean that there is no diversity within the structure to allow for variation. Van Saar having some divergence from pure gothic isn't a bad thing. Variety is a good thing in such a huge setting otherwise we can end up with single themes becoming so overriding that they actually lose their flavour and interest.

And that is what the Centurion should have been...

 Flinty wrote:
And that is what the Centurion should have been...

People would hate it for the same reason they had the Scout-Dreadnought and the Grey Knight walker. They hate suits which leaves the pilot "exposed" and looks like a baby carrier.

Yeah, the only thing the Centurion should have been is not made at all.

Personally think I prefer the earlier depiction, with the more sleek and spider-like design, but frankly I'll be content enough just to see it finally sculpted and released.

I’m in for the minis, the book and the cards. Can’t wait to see the FW stuff.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Cool. Now make the fething model.

'Cause you're a solid day one preorder, yeah?

 Altruizine wrote:

[Dear H.B.M.C.,] Can you tell us how many of the Forgeworld Necromunda models you currently own, please? Will you be buying all future releases? When did you last play a game of Necromunda; and when was the last game you played in which you fielded a special character?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
...

 Mr_Rose wrote:
I knew someone was going to make this post… the answer is they have a freaking STC system. Fully functional.
Except for that unfortunate system error that insists that polonium is an absolutely vital component of every alloy…
But yeah they’re operating off of golden era tech. Even though they have to keep it on the down-low to avoid the Adeptus Mechanicus razing the place to the ground…

Is that new fluff for Van Saar as of this article or something mentioned in older editions?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/07/lore-discover-the-secrets-of-the-van-saar-in-house-of-artifice/

On a less silly note, is anyone else thinking that the "Reinforcements" that got teased for January are going to be plastic and FW rather than just FW?

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

That looks remarkably advanced for Imperials and even 40k in general. It doesn't have the wonky dark fantasy horror of the admech and is sleeker even than the new primaris stuff. It seems like it fits better in a universe like AT-43's UNA. This isn't a complaint btw as I actually like the design.

I knew someone was going to make this post… the answer is they have a freaking STC system. Fully functional.

That doesn't necessarily explain the difference in aesthetics. Genestealer cult environmental suits are STC tech, as is the Rhino hull, for example, and they're not sleek and rounded.

It's easily explained away by different STCs producing different specifics even with the same input, but the Van Saar look is definitely distinct from what we've generally come to expect of 40K's human high technology.

Depends entirely on what fragments they’ve got. Because that’s what all existing STC’s are - bits and bobs found and approved.

A fully functioning STC is described in the background as being the sum total of mankind’s technical knowledge. Exploratory Fleets were given one of these wonders, so where ever they wound up and laid their hat as their new home, man’s knowledge went with them. They’re described as thinking engines. Basically, you input both what you needed to build, and the materials you had to hand - and it would tell you how to achieve your goal. Or it would build it for you. That really depends on your source. Both may actually be true, as it’s entirely possible over time newer and updated STC’s were developed, with more modern ones being that bit more sophisticated.

Van Saar appears (new background may clarify or further muddy) to have a more complete STC - or at the very least, a very specific, and unique STC fragment that no one else has access to.

And even if someone does, it may simply be the sheer pressure of demand that sees them churn out “good enough” variants over “real craftsmanship”. There is after all good reason the Guard are issued Lasguns over more powerful, but considerably more complex weapons.

 Kanluwen wrote:
On a less silly note, is anyone else thinking that the "Reinforcements" that got teased for January are going to be plastic and FW rather than just FW?

No.

 warboss wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
I knew someone was going to make this post… the answer is they have a freaking STC system. Fully functional.
Except for that unfortunate system error that insists that polonium is an absolutely vital component of every alloy…
But yeah they’re operating off of golden era tech. Even though they have to keep it on the down-low to avoid the Adeptus Mechanicus razing the place to the ground…

Is that new fluff for Van Saar as of this article or something mentioned in older editions?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/07/lore-discover-the-secrets-of-the-van-saar-in-house-of-artifice/

It's new for this edition - it was first mentioned in their Gang book.

beast_gts wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
I knew someone was going to make this post… the answer is they have a freaking STC system. Fully functional.
Except for that unfortunate system error that insists that polonium is an absolutely vital component of every alloy…
But yeah they’re operating off of golden era tech. Even though they have to keep it on the down-low to avoid the Adeptus Mechanicus razing the place to the ground…

Is that new fluff for Van Saar as of this article or something mentioned in older editions?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/07/lore-discover-the-secrets-of-the-van-saar-in-house-of-artifice/

It's new for this edition - it was first mentioned in their Gang book.

Gang War 3 or 4?

 privateer4hire wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
I knew someone was going to make this post… the answer is they have a freaking STC system. Fully functional.
Except for that unfortunate system error that insists that polonium is an absolutely vital component of every alloy…
But yeah they’re operating off of golden era tech. Even though they have to keep it on the down-low to avoid the Adeptus Mechanicus razing the place to the ground…

Is that new fluff for Van Saar as of this article or something mentioned in older editions?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/07/lore-discover-the-secrets-of-the-van-saar-in-house-of-artifice/

It's new for this edition - it was first mentioned in their Gang book.

Gang War 3 or 4?

Gang War 3 was the Van Saar one.

Three books in three years. Space marines and stormcast, watch out!

 privateer4hire wrote:
Three books in three years. Space marines and stormcast, watch out!

Stormcast got close if you include the Grand Alliance books which were pushed out very fast for AoS when things started to slowly turn around. I think Khorne also wound up with 2 or 3 as well in a short span of time.

Same as Necromunda though, the promoting angle wasn't so much GW looking to sell more books, but rather rapid changes in product design and focus. Whilst Necromunda didn't have the CEO change as well, it did go through several clear versions as a result of increasing sales and popularity.

One can hope that like AoS 2.0 has settled; Necromunda in its current form will also start to settle.

Having 360 the models, I really don't like the random spike on the chest of the archeotek guys. It just seems really unnecessary and more of a nuisance than serving any practical reason

 GaroRobe wrote:
Having 360 the models, I really don't like the random spike on the chest of the archeotek guys. It just seems really unnecessary and more of a nuisance than serving any practical reason

Yeah i agree, but it seems to be a seperate part so hopefully can be left off without too much hassle.

 Overread wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
Three books in three years. Space marines and stormcast, watch out!

...

One can hope that like AoS 2.0 has settled; Necromunda in its current form will also start to settle.

I strongly suspect N21 before next year is over. With only two major houses left to cover, it can't be too long before a reboot comes along.

 privateer4hire wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
Three books in three years. Space marines and stormcast, watch out!

...

One can hope that like AoS 2.0 has settled; Necromunda in its current form will also start to settle.

I strongly suspect N21 before next year is over. With only two major houses left to cover, it can't be too long before a reboot comes along.

I was more expecting a Trading Post/Black Market/Hired Gun book rather than another main rulebook.

 Crazyterran wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
Three books in three years. Space marines and stormcast, watch out!

...

One can hope that like AoS 2.0 has settled; Necromunda in its current form will also start to settle.

I strongly suspect N21 before next year is over. With only two major houses left to cover, it can't be too long before a reboot comes along.

I was more expecting a Trading Post/Black Market/Hired Gun book rather than another main rulebook.

They can probably publish that/those, too. And then, the new edition

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 warboss wrote:

zamerion wrote:

Spoiler:

That looks remarkably advanced for Imperials and even 40k in general. It doesn't have the wonky dark fantasy horror of the admech and is sleeker even than the new primaris stuff. It seems like it fits better in a universe like AT-43's UNA. This isn't a complaint btw as I actually like the design.

I knew someone was going to make this post… the answer is they have a freaking STC system. Fully functional.
Except for that unfortunate system error that insists that polonium is an absolutely vital component of every alloy…
But yeah they’re operating off of golden era tech. Even though they have to keep it on the down-low to avoid the Adeptus Mechanicus razing the place to the ground…

That will never stop being one of if not the dumbest pieces of fluff GW have ever done. And in what universe is giving their Juves grav-powered hoverboards and their gangers Rad Cannons(were those not "use by special appointment of the Emperor or the High Lords only, on pain of figgin extraction"?) and everyone in their House using incredibly advanced modular weapons tech unseen anywhere else in the setting "on the down-low"? The idea one of the most important hubs of production in the entire Imperium has *zero* Mechanicus oversight, not even a single clandestine Mechanicus agent, not even a local with enough access to get a message off-world and a grudge large enough to motivate them to send it, over a period of *millennia*, is so laughable it's not even funny anymore.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 warboss wrote:

zamerion wrote:

Spoiler:

That looks remarkably advanced for Imperials and even 40k in general. It doesn't have the wonky dark fantasy horror of the admech and is sleeker even than the new primaris stuff. It seems like it fits better in a universe like AT-43's UNA. This isn't a complaint btw as I actually like the design.

I knew someone was going to make this post… the answer is they have a freaking STC system. Fully functional.
Except for that unfortunate system error that insists that polonium is an absolutely vital component of every alloy…
But yeah they’re operating off of golden era tech. Even though they have to keep it on the down-low to avoid the Adeptus Mechanicus razing the place to the ground…

That will never stop being one of if not the dumbest pieces of fluff GW have ever done. And in what universe is giving their Juves grav-powered hoverboards and their gangers Rad Cannons(were those not "use by special appointment of the Emperor or the High Lords only, on pain of figgin extraction"?) and everyone in their House using incredibly advanced modular weapons tech unseen anywhere else in the setting "on the down-low"? The idea one of the most important hubs of production in the entire Imperium has *zero* Mechanicus oversight, not even a single clandestine Mechanicus agent, not even a local with enough access to get a message off-world and a grudge large enough to motivate them to send it, over a period of *millennia*, is so laughable it's not even funny anymore.

Welcome to Imperial Bureaucracy.

Where entire admin departments of an entire sector (not just planet) can be subverted and their whole output corrupted by the forces of Chaos; where entire systems scheduled for cleansing and colonising can be forgotten for thousands of years; where weapons of war that protect the entire Imperium are built to religious text design with any deviation punishable by death or worse; where computers are so feared and outlawed that human minds are slaved to provide calculation duties within mechanical husks.
Bribery, corruption, religion, insane incompetence and more are rife.

Necromunda as a planet is a whole Mary-Sue pile of issues - it's a hive world with it's own governor that it also an official Imperial Fists recruiting world (so should be under their control) that also should have been Exterminatus'd several times - Genestealer cults, Chaos uprisings, biological horrors, democracy, etc.

All covered though.

Not being the Imperial Fist home world, it’s not their Ward.

The rest? Provided a given planet meets its tithe, they’re basically left alone more or less entirely.

Lets not also overlook that the Imperium has limited resources; a world that's otherwise behaving itself and giving its tithe and output might well be left alone compared to worlds on the fringe that are far more corrupted and where the flow of tithes and such has stopped. Heck as noted earlier - Necromunda might well have a scheduled exterminatus or invasion or otherwise correction coming its way. It's just buried in the admin and held up.

The expanded Necromunda background also serves as a pretty neat explanation of why tithe meeting worlds are typically left be.

And it’s all in the power structure. House Helmawr are very, very adept at encouraging competition, and co-dependency in the lesser Houses.

Just as House Helmawr are let be by the Administratum, so do Helmawr leave the lesser houses be, provided they make good on present arrangements. And everyone more-or-less respects that arrangement.

Sure, Escher might want to expand their holdings - but if that arrangement is to last, they’d need to be able to replicate the competence and output of whoever they’ve displaced.

Now, let’s say the various issues on Necromunda did lead to an Administratum enforced regime change....how exactly do you do that without throwing an otherwise highly productive and dependable planet into anarchy?

If you elevate an existing house to replace Helmawr? That won’t really work due to the political structure. Ro-Lan might support Ko-Iron, where Ulanti and the others would take exception. That leads to conflict, and would affect tithe output.

Introduce a new Governor from off-planet? Same result - internal bickering and conflict.

Helmawr knows this, as do the other houses. The other houses can’t make aggressive moves against Helmawr, because he has Imperial backing. So it has to be a gradual, incremental seizing of power. Move to fast, too hard or too soon? And the house of card falls apart, and everyone stands to lose.

I for one find it a fascinating dynamic!

 Mr_Rose wrote:

I knew someone was going to make this post… the answer is they have a freaking STC system. Fully functional.
Except for that unfortunate system error that insists that polonium is an absolutely vital component of every alloy…
But yeah they’re operating off of golden era tech. Even though they have to keep it on the down-low to avoid the Adeptus Mechanicus razing the place to the ground…

That and the curiously Necron looking tech they have at the centre of their HQ.
Would love to get more about how it was originally a working STC but someone tried to make it 'better' with a little techno-heresy and now everyone is scrambling for centuries to try to repair it and cover up anything untoward (even Helmawr apparently)

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The expanded Necromunda background also serves as a pretty neat explanation of why tithe meeting worlds are typically left be.

And it’s all in the power structure. House Helmawr are very, very adept at encouraging competition, and co-dependency in the lesser Houses.

Just as House Helmawr are let be by the Administratum, so do Helmawr leave the lesser houses be, provided they make good on present arrangements. And everyone more-or-less respects that arrangement.

Sure, Escher might want to expand their holdings - but if that arrangement is to last, they’d need to be able to replicate the competence and output of whoever they’ve displaced.

Now, let’s say the various issues on Necromunda did lead to an Administratum enforced regime change....how exactly do you do that without throwing an otherwise highly productive and dependable planet into anarchy?

If you elevate an existing house to replace Helmawr? That won’t really work due to the political structure. Ro-Lan might support Ko-Iron, where Ulanti and the others would take exception. That leads to conflict, and would affect tithe output.

Introduce a new Governor from off-planet? Same result - internal bickering and conflict.

Helmawr knows this, as do the other houses. The other houses can’t make aggressive moves against Helmawr, because he has Imperial backing. So it has to be a gradual, incremental seizing of power. Move to fast, too hard or too soon? And the house of card falls apart, and everyone stands to lose.

I for one find it a fascinating dynamic!

Also, people forget that the Imperium is fundamentally a feudal hierarchy with Planetary Governors as the local knights. They run their village (planet) as they see fit and no-one cares what happens to the peasants unless and until they make a big enough stink to affect a neighbouring village or stop the taxes.
The Lex Imperialis does not cover the actions of ordinary civilians except inasmuch as it prohibits heresy and so forth but even there that’s more of an admonition to the governors that their job is to stop that by any means necessary.

Really the only Imperial organisation that could or should care about the shenanigans going on on Necromunda is the Inquisition and unless they sneak in with the Cold Traders, they will end up in Hive Primus first and who’s to say the Van Saar keep their STC there? It’s not the original capital of Necromunda after all.

As for the planetary authorities, as long as the Van Saar can be relied upon to “invent” any new toys Lord Helmawr decides he needs, they will be left alone. Much like the Escher and their fancy fun-time formulations. After all, if he did drop the hammer on them, who’s to say the device wouldn’t “accidentally” get broken before it could be found?