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It seems that this book contains the "pushing little people around the table" rules, along with some very basic "here are some rules to let you build your little people"

That's... not how I would do it, but hey.

I'm interested in what they're going to do next. If they're trying to streamline their core rules, then they need

This book or main rule book

SOMETHING

House of...

The "Book of..." will remain side flavour sourcebooks in the main

The SOMETHING used to be a trading post. Now it seems it needs campaign and experience rules as well.

Waiting for House of Pancakes before I jump in, myself.

The "house of" book contain major change in gang structure, and include rule for new official model made by GW. That's not "side flavour". That's like saying 9th edition 40k Codex is side flavour for 8th edition codex.

It’s more like saying you can either use the Index or the codex. One provides some bare bones rules to run your army and the other is the detailed version. You can play the game using either.

Chopstick - no, generally the "Book of Peril/Crime/Ruin" are flavour books

Book of Judgement fills the role of the "House of" for Palenites, but you don't need it if you're running any other gang. Likewise Ruin for the Grinders/Helots/GSC and Peril for Venators.

You don't need the House of Chains if you're running Escher, for example.

 Graphite wrote:
Chopstick - no, generally the "Book of Peril/Crime/Ruin" are flavour books

Book of Judgement fills the role of the "House of" for Palenites, but you don't need it if you're running any other gang. Likewise Ruin for the Grinders/Helots/GSC and Peril for Venators.

You don't need the House of Chains if you're running Escher, for example.

My bad I misread it.

This is the 5th book trying to instruct players on how to build certain gangs... in 4 years.

And with each individual book, you can create distinctly unique gangs in ways that you can identify which book the gang was created from. For example, if you have Dive skill or Grav pistol in your gang, you could only have created it using the N21 Hive War Rulebook. If you have lastpistol/meltagun combi at 130 credits, it could only have been created with House of Artifice. If it costs 120 credits it could only have been created using N21 Hive War rulebook. If you have lasgun/meltagun combi, it could only have been created using Gangs of the Underhive (N18 GotU). Same is true for all books, whether it's N18 GotU, "House of" books, Gang War books (N17) or N17 Rulebook (or even the pre-made cards that came in the first starter box).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Graphite wrote:

You don't need the House of Chains if you're running Escher, for example.

All books have unique, universal rules not found anywhere else. House of Chains contains stuff that Escher can use, that's not available in any other book.

If you're strictly speaking what you "need", then you don't "need" anything, or, at minimum, you could play with just a single book like the N17 Rulebook, the N19 Rulebook or the N21 Rulebook. If you mean "need" as in reasonably having most of the details for a gang (up to date), then yeah a single "House of" book for your gang would suffice.

Yeah, that would be pretty much exactly what I'd mean by "need"

 Flinty wrote:

But you don’t need to get all the books to play the game. You need the core rule book, and one further book to give you the rules for your gang and a campaign mode. For those who are interested there are them a range of further source books providing further options and flavour, but you don’t need them to play the game.

I really like my House of Artifice book. It expands the lore (even if some of that expansion is a bit dumb) and provides some house specific goodies. But it’s not necessary to play the game.

Honestly, the problem is that... well, they're trying to force us along the codex path, but this is not supposed to be one of those games.

The important part of the game, the real meat and potatoes of it, are the campaign rules, the territories, the ability to tell stories about your little group of dudes. "Forcing" it to work for the codex tradmill, adding more, and more, and more stuff just for stuff's sake, while making the books you bought obsolete for the next batch or minis, or every year... it is, simply put, not the reason why I'm here.

I'd be much happier with a core book with a single gang creation system for all gangs but all the trading post, campaign and territories rules in than how they're doing it currently. Because I would get much more out of it than out of... <waves vaguely to the utterly stupid pile of books they've released> ...this.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Flinty wrote:

But you don’t need to get all the books to play the game. You need the core rule book, and one further book to give you the rules for your gang and a campaign mode. For those who are interested there are them a range of further source books providing further options and flavour, but you don’t need them to play the game.

I really like my House of Artifice book. It expands the lore (even if some of that expansion is a bit dumb) and provides some house specific goodies. But it’s not necessary to play the game.

Honestly, the problem is that... well, they're trying to force us along the codex path, but this is not supposed to be one of those games.

The important part of the game, the real meat and potatoes of it, are the campaign rules, the territories, the ability to tell stories about your little group of dudes. "Forcing" it to work for the codex tradmill, adding more, and more, and more stuff just for stuff's sake, while making the books you bought obsolete for the next batch or minis, or every year... it is, simply put, not the reason why I'm here.

I'd be much happier with a core book with a single gang creation system for all gangs but all the trading post, campaign and territories rules in than how they're doing it currently. Because I would get much more out of it than out of... <waves vaguely to the utterly stupid pile of books they've released> ...this.

I will 2nd this. I typically provide gaming stuff for friends or when I introduce them to the game. Multiple gangs means multiple books. Not to mention once you read a rule and start playing it, god forbid if you actually have to find it to reference again. That happened to me with all the gang war books... it was a night mare and i couldn't remember half the time which of the books it was even in.

 Albertorius wrote:
Honestly, the problem is that... well, they're trying to force us along the codex path, but this is not supposed to be one of those games.

Thirded.

To be honest, though, I have by now come to terms with the fact that GW's business model is just not compatible with what I (and my friends) want out of this hobby, and that's true in general, not specific to Necromunda. So I buy the models I like and my gaming group adapts/houserules GW's rules to play the games we want to play. None of us are remotely interested in the constant treadmill of new editions and new codexes every 2-3 years, points changes and other rules updates multiple times a year, campaign books adding units and making new codexes obsolete within a few months or even weeks, and all the other crap GW pulls these days.

GW makes cool models. Other than that, they can go jump in a lake.

Yeah, I just buy Necro models that I like, tired of the rules treadmill.

It's the same reason I don't want a Mordheim reboot anymore.

Goose LeChance wrote:
Yeah, I just buy Necro models that I like, tired of the rules treadmill.

It's the same reason I don't want a Mordheim reboot anymore.

After seeing the incredible mess Newcromunda has become, I'm not sure I'm interested in any updated games from GW at all. That there would be a "need" to purchase more than before was a given. Some of it perhaps even worth it, with more options and things than available previously. But not like this. It's about as impressive as how Adeptus Titanicus apparently has 7(!) rulebooks, somehow. It's just so out of proportion. Aeronautica, meanwhile, was completely overhauled and not for the better, while only Blood Bowl appears to have been handled fairly competently.
The fact that GW creates new editions in order to sell new books is hardly new, but with Newcromunda it's even difficult to tell where different editions begin and end, what products are compatible with what others and which books replace, or only partially replace, older publications. And in as far as books are meant to replace others, the speed at which this happens is remarkable even by GW's standards. The early situation could have been explained by changing plans and changing writers, but now?

If they wanted to keep things clean, they could have copied all gangs from the Gangs of the Underhive book, then trimmed down any weapons and equipment not on the sprues. So it would be a true subset. Less confusing for new players. They sort of did that in Hive War book, but at the same time added new skill, new weapon and changed some costs.

Imagine Blood Bowl having 4-5 different team rosters for each team?!?

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
It's about as impressive as how Adeptus Titanicus apparently has 7(!) rulebooks, somehow.

1 rulebook, 5 campaign books and the "Loyalist Legios" book (which updates some material from the campaign books).

beast_gts wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
It's about as impressive as how Adeptus Titanicus apparently has 7(!) rulebooks, somehow.

1 rulebook, 5 campaign books and the "Loyalist Legios" book (which updates some material from the campaign books).

For a game that has about 10 different miniatures, it's very impressive.

Also nuts.

I'mm pretty sure they will eventually have much more books than minis.

 Albertorius wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
It's about as impressive as how Adeptus Titanicus apparently has 7(!) rulebooks, somehow.

1 rulebook, 5 campaign books and the "Loyalist Legios" book (which updates some material from the campaign books).

For a game that has about 10 different miniatures, it's very impressive.

Also nuts.

I'mm pretty sure they will eventually have much more books than minis.

13 (if you count Knights & FW models). We knew we weren't going to get a new titan every quarter, but they are just throwing books at us (and we don't have corrupted titans yet!).

beast_gts wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
It's about as impressive as how Adeptus Titanicus apparently has 7(!) rulebooks, somehow.

1 rulebook, 5 campaign books and the "Loyalist Legios" book (which updates some material from the campaign books).

For a game that has about 10 different miniatures, it's very impressive.

Also nuts.

I'mm pretty sure they will eventually have much more books than minis.

13 (if you count Knights & FW models). We knew we weren't going to get a new titan every quarter, but they are just throwing books at us (and we don't have corrupted titans yet!).

I don't count parts as different models ^^. AFAIK, there's the three original titans, the two new ones, and... what, three knights?

And then there's mod sprues, but those ain't minis, just parts to magnetize the ones you have

 Albertorius wrote:
I don't count parts as different models ^^. AFAIK, there's the three original titans, the two new ones, and... what, three knights?

Warhound, Reaver, Warbringer Nemesis, Warlord & Warmaster (Warlord-Sinister Psi-Titan - FW)
Questoris Knights, Mechanicum Questoris Knights Magaera (FW), Mechanicum Questoris Knights Styrix (FW), Imperial Cerastus Knights, Cerastus Knights Acheron & Castigator, Mechanicum Cerastus Knights Atrapos (FW), Acastus Knights Porphyrion

For clarity: Of those, only the psi-Titan is an add-on/upgrade kit for a plastic model. The Mechanicum knights are full resin kits. The others are full-plastic with different frames.

Ah, thank you for the heads up, I'm not much up to date with the FW stuff TBH.

 Albertorius wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
It's about as impressive as how Adeptus Titanicus apparently has 7(!) rulebooks, somehow.

1 rulebook, 5 campaign books and the "Loyalist Legios" book (which updates some material from the campaign books).

For a game that has about 10 different miniatures, it's very impressive.

Also nuts.

I'mm pretty sure they will eventually have much more books than minis.

Well, it is coming from a country that has more Admirals than warships in its navy so...

I mean... we have just the one admiral ^^. It seems to be enough for our needs xD

Goose LeChance wrote:
Yeah, I just buy Necro models that I like, tired of the rules treadmill.

It's the same reason I don't want a Mordheim reboot anymore.

Don't mean to get your hopes up but the author has expressed a couple of times his desire to make Mordheim 2 as a free download.

Baxx wrote:
Imagine Blood Bowl having 4-5 different team rosters for each team?!?

no one would care, as soon as GW goes down that route the LRB will be back and BB running without GW again
the community is too organised for GW to play stupid

 kodos wrote:

Baxx wrote:
Imagine Blood Bowl having 4-5 different team rosters for each team?!?

no one would care, as soon as GW goes down that route the LRB will be back and BB running without GW again
the community is too organised for GW to play stupid

Yeah, right. People have said that for Necromunda as well.

Oh, look at how things are now !

Reality is organized community doing official events have really no interest in going against the official rules as long as it keeps selling. Because they know that as long as it keeps selling, they'll get new blood more easily, and it's better to take advantage of GW's "free publicity in stores and official websites" to keep doing that. Once the game goes underground, it's always more troublesome to recruit in what players often perceive as "a dead game".

Titanicus is very different from Necromunda

It had a core rulebook in a big box, that was eventually updated with some minor edits for a smaller box, and then for some strange reason the standalone release was the first box's book. But the errata and FAQs still stand; there isn't any confusion at all whichever version of the rulebooks you have.

Then there are the five campaign books, which vary in quality, but most of their rules were relatively unambiguous (or at least, you know what the rules are), and Loyalist Legios just takes (and updates) half the faction rules spread across those previous books. So a new player can get a (current) starter or the hardback standalone rules and a copy of Loyalist Legios, and have what they need to engage with most of the game.

For Necromunda, they have to pick a way to get the rules (Underhive, Dark Uprising, Hive War, standalone) and THEN have a discussion with their mates about which version they're going to use? For Emperor's sake, it's just sloppy - there's bad editing, no version controls, and random changes scattered across the whole endeavour. My group is about to conclude a virtual dreadball league, and now that we can imagine gaming in person again I was really close to getting them on board with Necromunda through the Hive War box, but frankly, it's just embarassing trying to muddle through the thing.

What I would have liked is a "current standard" rulebook (with formal erratas for previous versions), some kind of explanation on what cards to use, with me as arbitrator getting my group to pick one of the Book of X campaigns, and then each person could go and get their House of Y book. But instead apparently I have to go dig up my old copy of N17, talk my friends into EACH getting a Hive War book(?) and THEN we need to have a long discussion about what we're going to use? I'm just withdrawing my pitch for Necro and we'll play something that actually is presented in a way that makes sense.

Sarouan wrote:

 kodos wrote:

Baxx wrote:
Imagine Blood Bowl having 4-5 different team rosters for each team?!?

no one would care, as soon as GW goes down that route the LRB will be back and BB running without GW again
the community is too organised for GW to play stupid

Yeah, right. People have said that for Necromunda as well.

People actually did it for BB though.

Longstrider wrote:


For Necromunda, they have to pick a way to get the rules (Underhive, Dark Uprising, Hive War, standalone) and THEN have a discussion with their mates about which version they're going to use?

The game rules are consistent between Dark Uprising and the hardcover Rulebook. Hive War just incorporates the minimal errata and reformats it a bit for people to learn the game easier. Admittedly the Underhive/Gang War books are outdated and should probably be ignored/forgotten at this point. They've served their original purpose to expand the game as the kits came out.

So you need:

1. Game Rules (Hardcover Rulebook, Dark Uprising, Hive War)
2. Campaign Rules (Hardcover Rulebook (Dominion), Book of Judgement (Law and Misrule), Dark Uprising (Uprising))
3. Gang Rules

Gang Rules is where it can get a little more complicated. You can either stick to Gangs of the Underhive and just the core six house gangs, or each player can get a book for the gang they want to play if they're a little more advanced or want to future proof themselves a bit. Since Cawdor and Delaque don't have their House books yet, they're stuck with GotU for a few more weeks/months but you don't need to have your nose in the book during the game so a single Rulebook/GotU can easily be shared between players anyway.

Cawdor - House of Faith* (or GotU for basic gangs)
Delaque - House of Shadow* (or GotU for basic gangs)
Escher - House of Blades (or GotU for basic gangs)
Goliath - House of Chains (or GotU for basic gangs)
Orlock - House of Iron (or GotU for basic gangs)
Van Saar - House of Artifice (or GotU for basic gangs)

Palanite Enforcers - Book of Judgement or Dark Uprising
Corpse Grinders - Book of Ruin or Dark Uprising
Genestealer Cults - Book of Ruin
Helot Chaos Cults - Book of Ruin
Slave Ogryns - House of Chains
Venators - Book of Peril

JWBS wrote:

Sarouan wrote:

 kodos wrote:

Baxx wrote:
Imagine Blood Bowl having 4-5 different team rosters for each team?!?

no one would care, as soon as GW goes down that route the LRB will be back and BB running without GW again
the community is too organised for GW to play stupid

Yeah, right. People have said that for Necromunda as well.

People actually did it for BB though.

On Yaktribe, people actually did it for Necromunda, too.