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Sniper Bikes, heavy weapons buggies, walking giant fleas with chain guns. mmmmmmmm.......

 Overread wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Maybe some of the gangs from Necromunda Proper just don't show up in Ash Wastes because it wouldn't make much sense for them to venture out. Cawdor and Delaque are the two that strike me as groups that have no business in the wastes, the former because how are they going to cobble together vehicles and the latter because what would they want in a desert?

The problem with being lore selective when making something like this is that it leaves some armies "out" and that means leaving some players, fans and customers out. If this is the new direction for a lot of the games content coming forward then leaving out some groups would leave those customers with nothing to buy and less reason to stick around. It's not that every army has to have every thing, but if you make a subgame and invite only a few armies that is leaving players totally out of the loop.

So I don't see GW doing that; yes some factions will take longer and some might get more models than others. Indeed that might be how they do it; factions that feature heavily in the wastes might have a more varied roster; whlist those who feature less might have fewer units that they use more often or that come with more optional parts.

I love Delaque and while I agree they dont really have much of a presently known fluff rationale for being out in the wide open spaces, devoid of sneaky cubby holes to hide behind and stab from, I think GW are not going to miss out on the opportunity to rustle up some of that sweet justification and make sure sneaky gits like delaque have a place at the mad max wasteland demolition derby table. There is money to be made, and they enjoy secondary goodwill so that people like me dont start playing "All by myself" by Eric Carmen on spotify while throwing out "Forever alone" and "Feels bad, man" memes when watching others enjoy ash waste games.

I honestly have no clue what their role would be at that table beyond the already extant gribbly squids, but I am ready for any and all delaque models they want to force feed down my grinning maw.

 Overread wrote:
Pretty much every faction in Necromunda so far would have access and understanding to drive vehicles and if they didn't make them themselves, they'd certainly steal them. Heck even though this is the "wastes outside" There are plenty of regions you can fight with vehicles inside the Hive. Heck there's whole ports and shipping going on in some of the lower flooded regions.

This makes me think there might be 2 or maybe even 3 vehicle kits that are pretty universal, with enough bits and such to make them visually distinct, and include a couple bits for each gang as rider/gunner or whatever.

Kills a few birds with the fewest possible stones.

Takes care of the rationale, as anyone can steal an STC vehicle or whatever pattern and use it to wreak havoc in the world.
Takes care of the production side of creating models with such a generic yet customizable kit(s).
Takes care of delaque whiners like me who want gribbly stinky space squids but instead get beat up 1978 dodge darts to cruise the strip in. Why? Because thats whats available on necromunda. Now shut up, and man the harpoon launcher. That escher juve isnt going to skewer herself.

 Overread wrote:
There are plenty of regions you can fight with vehicles inside the Hive. Heck there's whole ports and shipping going on in some of the lower flooded regions.

Going by the 90s Necromunda rulebook - now probably not entirely canon - there specifically wasn't much room to manoeuvre vehicles in the Underhive. That's why the guilders employ large baggage trains of slaves to transport goods around, since it is far too impractical to use transports, what with the unstable architecture, rubble and detritus everywhere, etc.

I imagine it was a bodged together excuse IRL to justify not having vehicles in the game, and GW are free to retcon that away any time they so wish.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Overread wrote:
There are plenty of regions you can fight with vehicles inside the Hive. Heck there's whole ports and shipping going on in some of the lower flooded regions.

Going by the 90s Necromunda rulebook - now probably not entirely canon - there specifically wasn't much room to manoeuvre vehicles in the Underhive. That's why the guilders employ large baggage trains of slaves to transport goods around, since it is far too impractical to use transports, what with the unstable architecture, rubble and detritus everywhere, etc.

I imagine it was a bodged together excuse IRL to justify not having vehicles in the game, and GW are free to retcon that away any time they so wish.

The problem is one of density. The description of the population of the hives, and the hive's size and footprint makes it hard to cram that many people in, as well as factories, smelters, etc... which are all non-residential spaces. That and the Underhive is meant to be abandoned urban decay so it is hard to square that with roads that are clear enough to actually drive or maneuver vehicles through.

That is why I think they went with the Ash Wastes route and I think they will find or invent reasons for all the Houses to have interests and forces in the Ash Wastes.

I just realized that basing all my Necromunda miniatures with grey sand instead of Zone Mortalis bases turned out to be a good decision. I like the look of Zone Mortalis bases but I hate how difficult it is to attach models onto them so that it looks good.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Overread wrote:
There are plenty of regions you can fight with vehicles inside the Hive. Heck there's whole ports and shipping going on in some of the lower flooded regions.

Going by the 90s Necromunda rulebook - now probably not entirely canon - there specifically wasn't much room to manoeuvre vehicles in the Underhive. That's why the guilders employ large baggage trains of slaves to transport goods around, since it is far too impractical to use transports, what with the unstable architecture, rubble and detritus everywhere, etc.

I imagine it was a bodged together excuse IRL to justify not having vehicles in the game, and GW are free to retcon that away any time they so wish.

In real life the roads in Edo era Japan were so bad that human porters was literally the fastest way to get around. Even horses had trouble and risked breaking a leg.

This was a deliberate policy of the Shogun to keep rivals from moving armies quickly.

Ported to the Underhive there may be roads and transports but most is kept in deliberate decay to keep the gangs busy and isolated from civilized folk.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm gonna guess so far that ATV (and the fleas) will be functionally identical to a 40k cavalry model, ie. a single, non-divisible game piece. With to day's obsession with WYSIWYG I cannot see GW allowing you to dismount a vehicle and possibly an enemy ganger jumping in and driving off with it if there's no way to pysically add/remove models from the seats. Maybe something changes later in the Book of Trucks.

Gorkamorka handled Muties and their mutant beast mounts this way. There were no on-foot Mutie models. Even if they were shot down, they were assumed to 'hold onto the reins' while lying on the ground--you just laid down the mounted model on its side. If the Mutie was taken out of action, the mount was assumed to flee the board, so you'd remove the whole model. And so on.

Of course, Gorkamorka had every other faction's models leaping in and out of their vehicles (or throwing each other off them) at every opportunity ...

Come to think of it, these sand flea riders would make pretty good proxy GM Muties. Though Seekers of Slaanesh are the usual cost-effective option.

I think gw only did the whole rider and mount thing through one or two editions of Old World. I recall at some stage they started selling some new plastic leaders on foot and with a mount in the same pack.

However I don't think it lasted long term and its certainly not jumped over to AoS.

Necromunda COULD do it provided that the rider is just a regular ganger so can be represented by one from your standard pack. If anything GW could do that as it would encourage more sales of the core gang packs.

I hope there won't be dismounting and vehicles and mounts are unified profiles like in 40K. I don't really want the hassle of building mounted/dismounted model for every rider/pilot/gunner.

You can of course have pickups and other small transports some gangers can ride on.

 Overread wrote:
I think gw only did the whole rider and mount thing through one or two editions of Old World. I recall at some stage they started selling some new plastic leaders on foot and with a mount in the same pack.

In late editions of WHFB some kits did have footslogging and rider generals, but IIRC in those editions rider characters and their mount were still one thing. The only exception I remember in fantasy was characters riding big monsters, such as dragons, manticores, griffons, etc... if you killed the mount then the footslogging character survived and the player needed an appropriate model to replace the bigger one. Not sure about all the editions but I'm sure in 6th it was a rule. But I don't think it was ever a thing with characters riding common mounts such as horses, boars, etc...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jullevi wrote:
I just realized that basing all my Necromunda miniatures with grey sand instead of Zone Mortalis bases turned out to be a good decision. I like the look of Zone Mortalis bases but I hate how difficult it is to attach models onto them so that it looks good.

I haven't thought about the bases. Guess it's another reason to skip Ash Wastes then .

 Blackie wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I think gw only did the whole rider and mount thing through one or two editions of Old World. I recall at some stage they started selling some new plastic leaders on foot and with a mount in the same pack.

In late editions of WHFB some kits did have footslogging and rider generals, but IIRC in those editions rider characters and their mount were still one thing. The only exception I remember in fantasy was characters riding big monsters, such as dragons, manticores, griffons, etc... if you killed the mount then the footslogging character survived and the player needed an appropriate model to replace the bigger one. Not sure about all the editions but I'm sure in 6th it was a rule. But I don't think it was ever a thing with characters riding common mounts such as horses, boars, etc...

2nd ed 40K also had rules for drivers/gunners leaving vehicles, but it was arguably a holdover from Rogue Trader's fine detail and probably not something many players bothered with.

On the other hand, it's long been standard in LotR SBG to have both foot and mounted models, in case the rider is thrown or dismounts.

Usually you assume the horse runs off, so you don't need riderless horse models ... but for some creatures like wargs that keep fighting, it's handy to have riderless mounts too.

Thing is in this setting you've also got "smart" animals as well. That war horse that has a bit of unicorn somewhere in the bloodline; that highly trained horse that hangs about instead of fleeing; that horse that is 100% bolting as natural and is going to kick every single thing it passes as it goes in a blind charge

So tomorrow more ash wastes reveals ( they said in the video, but the text in the article said blood bowl)

Zenithfleet wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Spoiler:

 Overread wrote:
I think gw only did the whole rider and mount thing through one or two editions of Old World. I recall at some stage they started selling some new plastic leaders on foot and with a mount in the same pack.

In late editions of WHFB some kits did have footslogging and rider generals, but IIRC in those editions rider characters and their mount were still one thing. The only exception I remember in fantasy was characters riding big monsters, such as dragons, manticores, griffons, etc... if you killed the mount then the footslogging character survived and the player needed an appropriate model to replace the bigger one. Not sure about all the editions but I'm sure in 6th it was a rule. But I don't think it was ever a thing with characters riding common mounts such as horses, boars, etc...

Do you think the Fronteris terrain would be useful for the Ash Wastes?

 Dysartes wrote:
Do you think the Fronteris terrain would be useful for the Ash Wastes?

Yep. Need to dirty it up (but that's probably true in general, as its a little clean for the sand-blown desert maps it comes with), but an abandoned outpost from 'better days' would fit quite well.
Or even a new one, if the Orlocks can call in a favor for trade route protection (or build their own), or a staging depot.


I honestly forgot this terrain was coming. Its a nice break from pipes and ruined corners, and isn't heavily 40k-ified or overly skulled. Just some practical no-nonsense terrain.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Overread wrote:
There are plenty of regions you can fight with vehicles inside the Hive. Heck there's whole ports and shipping going on in some of the lower flooded regions.

Going by the 90s Necromunda rulebook - now probably not entirely canon - there specifically wasn't much room to manoeuvre vehicles in the Underhive. That's why the guilders employ large baggage trains of slaves to transport goods around, since it is far too impractical to use transports, what with the unstable architecture, rubble and detritus everywhere, etc.

I imagine it was a bodged together excuse IRL to justify not having vehicles in the game, and GW are free to retcon that away any time they so wish.

In real life the roads in Edo era Japan were so bad that human porters was literally the fastest way to get around. Even horses had trouble and risked breaking a leg.

This was a deliberate policy of the Shogun to keep rivals from moving armies quickly.

Ported to the Underhive there may be roads and transports but most is kept in deliberate decay to keep the gangs busy and isolated from civilized folk.

A bit off topic, but is that why Edo was built on a swamp, for that explicit purpose?
Or was that just an incidental bonus of Edo being in a swamp?
Sorry, but that's always been on my mind and have never found anyone to discuss that with before.

Voss wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Do you think the Fronteris terrain would be useful for the Ash Wastes?

Yep. Need to dirty it up (but that's probably true in general, as its a little clean for the sand-blown desert maps it comes with), but an abandoned outpost from 'better days' would fit quite well.
Or even a new one, if the Orlocks can call in a favor for trade route protection (or build their own), or a staging depot.


I honestly forgot this terrain was coming. Its a nice break from pipes and ruined corners, and isn't heavily 40k-ified or overly skulled. Just some practical no-nonsense terrain.

I just picked up one of the old Fronteris sets so I’m all set to have extra complete buildings and less ruins with the new one. Might look into having some be half-buried in dunes and such.

Chopstick wrote:
So Van Saar will be getting Jetbike now? it's gang of commorragh all over again.

I'd imagine something like the mule from the movie Serenity, a flying atv thing with room for 4 to 5 people. Having different factions with different size vehicles would also be a way to differentiate them.

I was thinking one vehicles book with all rules in, as opposed to one per gang right? Right?

Danny76 wrote:
I was thinking one vehicles book with all rules in, as opposed to one per gang right? Right?

Maybe as a first go. Then a book per gang should be in the works
Judging by their splat book approach and the community apparently buying them up eagerly

Danny76 wrote:
I was thinking one vehicles book with all rules in, as opposed to one per gang right? Right?

I admire your optimism.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Maybe some of the gangs from Necromunda Proper just don't show up in Ash Wastes because it wouldn't make much sense for them to venture out.

GW would create some hamfisted fluff to justify their inclusion before leaving out customers and missing out on sales. How do you think we got primaris marines?

Danny76 wrote:
I was thinking one vehicles book with all rules in, as opposed to one per gang right? Right?

Nobody knows. All that is known is that the Ash Wastes box includes the following:

On top of a hardback rulebook containing updated core rules and brand new mechanics for battling in the barren lands, you’ll also get all the tokens, templates, cards, and dice (including the new location, damage, and control dice for your vehicles) that you need to play Necromunda: Ash Wastes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Toofast wrote:

GW would create some hamfisted fluff to justify their inclusion before leaving out customers and missing out on sales.

Sure they would. That's why every single army is represented in Warhammer Underworlds or Blood Bowl, and why Imperial Knights can totally play in Kill Team too!

How do you think we got primaris marines?

Decades of stagnant designs that basically kept rotting on shelves because you could kitbash things easily, despite a constant clamoring fanbase insisting that every new player was totally playing that army and having painted themselves into a corner with lore?

Marines were rotting on shelves?

 Kanluwen wrote:
and why Imperial Knights can totally play in Kill Team too!

Yea, Necro factions that have gotten rules for every single other expansion also getting rules for this expansion is totally analogous to IKs in Kill Team. If I rolled my eyes any harder they would get stuck looking at the back of my head

And yet, the point still stands that GW keeps an entire faction of the priciest models in their ranges out of a game.

Also, you seem to have cherrypicked to avoid having to answer the other two examples.

Danny76 wrote:
I was thinking one vehicles book with all rules in, as opposed to one per gang right? Right?

Oh my dear sweet summer's child, to be so young and innocent.

I was afraid this would happen but now I'll put money on it, 2 years of releases, 1 vehicle box per gang!

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


I was afraid this would happen but now I'll put money on it, 2 years of releases, 1 vehicle box per gang!

And one book per box.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


I was afraid this would happen but now I'll put money on it, 2 years of releases, 1 vehicle box per gang!

And one book per box.

And gang aligned colored dice, tokens and cards for those vehicles as there are new dice in this set. All of which will be limited quantity and will change format and size part way through the releases. They will of course have the gang symbols on the 1's as well instead of the 6's