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 Haighus wrote:

There used to be a civilian Sentinel powerloader. I could see that returning.

The powerloader wasn't explicitly civilian.


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Jadenim wrote:
Why on Earth would literal dirt bikes not be suitable for the Ash Wastes?!

Because the riders have a lot of GSC iconography on them...and we've not seen explicit mention of an Atalan GSC presence on Necromunda yet.

And given the mining theme of GSC, I think they’re an obvious fit for a main faction for this expansion, more so than some of the main gangs.

Agreed, but that's not why I said what I said. The Goliath and Ridgerunner both are items that could be coopted into multiple gangs--in fact, the Underhive Wars game has a Goliath used by the Orlocks during the story.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
A bunch of stuff they already sell to encourage existing players to go buy their latest box. Not sure why you think it is crap?

Because it doesn't fit with the vision they seem to be pushing for Necromunda. It's just a list of things they already sell wedged in.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The powerloader wasn't explicitly civilian.

No it was just a utility model in a setting where we are told repeatably many common standard designs are used for multiple things across the Imperium.

Because the riders have a lot of GSC iconography on them...and we've not seen explicit mention of an Atalan GSC presence on Necromunda yet.

Its a bike.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Genestealer-Cults-Atalan-Jackals-2019
Looking at the webpage one saddlebag has a GSC symbol on it. Yes you would need to mod the riders, but that isn't beyond the whit of man.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
A bunch of stuff they already sell to encourage existing players to go buy their latest box. Not sure why you think it is crap?

Because it doesn't fit with the vision they seem to be pushing for Necromunda. It's just a list of things they already sell wedged in.

Does GW ever 'recycle' their models? I wonder if they could repackage some of the GSC vehicles, taking the GSC crew out, and add a sprue of goliath/orlock/whatever dudes alongside it.

That way a bunch of gangs would have access to the same vehicle..?

 pancakeonions wrote:
Does GW ever 'recycle' their models? I wonder if they could repackage some of the GSC vehicles, taking the GSC crew out, and add a sprue of goliath/orlock/whatever dudes alongside it.

That way a bunch of gangs would have access to the same vehicle..?

The biggest issue with that is they would have to physically cut the crew off the sprues to make that work.

They seem to want to bring the Mercator Guild in as the vehicle operators, giving gangs a third party to work for if they are not really known for vehicles like Orlocks.

 pancakeonions wrote:
Does GW ever 'recycle' their models? I wonder if they could repackage some of the GSC vehicles, taking the GSC crew out, and add a sprue of goliath/orlock/whatever dudes alongside it.

That way a bunch of gangs would have access to the same vehicle..?

Doubtless, their approach is to sell a goliath (or escher, van saar, etc.) gang box and a goliath mining vehicle (taurox, gsc bikes, etc.) to folks who want to combine the two.

 pancakeonions wrote:
Does GW ever 'recycle' their models?

they did in the past but "nu-GW" is different

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

There used to be a civilian Sentinel powerloader. I could see that returning.

The powerloader wasn't explicitly civilian.

Good point.

Come to think of it, that probably makes it more suited for a paramilitary proxy supported by a massive industrial bloc within a heavily militarised interstellar state.

Is anything actually civilian in the Imperium, or is it military units with paramilitary units supporting the military? To be honest, I don't see why we couldn't have gangs rolling around in Chimeras and using gun Sentinels if they have the creds.

Necromunda is a major arms manufacturing planet. I’m sure there is lots of heavy equipment that goes astray from the production lines, but not quite enough to warrant formal investigation and censure.

Why would gangs bother nicking gear made for IG when their back alley crap is literally better in every way.

Yeah. Necromundan exports are still riding horses or all things...

 pancakeonions wrote:
Does GW ever 'recycle' their models? I wonder if they could repackage some of the GSC vehicles, taking the GSC crew out, and add a sprue of goliath/orlock/whatever dudes alongside it.

That way a bunch of gangs would have access to the same vehicle..?

They repeatedly use the Rhino sprues in a number of kits. But the most recent Sisters of Battle rhino based vehicles don't use the old sprues, same rhino design, but new sculpt, new sprues and model. GW could go either route. With digital sculpting it doesn't take much effort to reuse or rework a previously designed model. They could do a necromunda version of the GSC ridge runner kit that omits the GSC bits with bits more appropriate to necromunda.

 aka_mythos wrote:

 pancakeonions wrote:
Does GW ever 'recycle' their models? I wonder if they could repackage some of the GSC vehicles, taking the GSC crew out, and add a sprue of goliath/orlock/whatever dudes alongside it.

That way a bunch of gangs would have access to the same vehicle..?

They repeatedly use the Rhino sprues in a number of kits. But the most recent Sisters of Battle rhino based vehicles don't use the old sprues, same rhino design, but new sculpt, new sprues and model. GW could go either route. With digital sculpting it doesn't take much effort to reuse or rework a previously designed model. They could do a necromunda version of the GSC ridge runner kit that omits the GSC bits with bits more appropriate to necromunda.

The SoB rhino is a MkI Deimos pattern, not the MkII Mars pattern used by the current SM kits, so a different sprue is warranted.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Why would gangs bother nicking gear made for IG when their back alley crap is literally better in every way.

Exactly. The Imperial Guard and what's given up as tithe is the bottom of the barrel equipment. When you look at the little bits of lore and details you can piece together it seems like even Necromunda's PDF, as something distinct from the IG are in a variety of ways better equipped.

For example there is a particular pattern of lasgun prized by the PDF for its ability to mount an exterminator auxiliary flamer, which would generally imply at some level there is some regular use of auxiliary flamers by otherwise standard troopers. We also know the PDF make use of a servo arm like suspensor for their heavy stubbers.

These are by no means big jumps in quality of equipment over IG but they are still better than what the IG would typically get.

As far as IG vehicles that would work carried over into Necromunda go... I think what would be most fitting is some 'domestic' version of sentinel, taurox, tauros and tauros venator. Necromunda would likely produce its own patterns of many of the IG vehicles or in the least vehicles in the same classes as those, where its easy to imagine some of those patterns being better than the most generally available IG patterns.

However again we know from lore there is better tech on necromunda. The only recent mention of bratt gangs in the new books, mention that these mid-hive gangers have civilian grav vehicles. I'm sure some house gang would love to kill a bratt and take their ride.


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 Haighus wrote:

The SoB rhino is a MkI Deimos pattern, not the MkII Mars pattern used by the current SM kits, so a different sprue is warranted.

I'm speaking more broadly, those two instances of rhinos represents different approaches GW could take. The SoB rhino can be called a new kit, even a new pattern, but even the Forge deimos pattern rhinos under some resin was the plastic rhino. The SoB rhino was simply a rework of the standard rhino done at an earlier stage of their process than when they just make an add-on sprue. The SoB rhino shows that GW can just as easily rework digital assets as they can rebundle a sprue with some new stuff.

GW could justify going either route if they wanted to. End of the day IF a Ridgerunner is included in Necromunda there are only two possibilities, its the GSC kit with add-ons or its a digitally reworked Ridgerunner but with distinctive bits.

Given they're rotating kits due to a lack of warehouse space/casting time etc i really can't see them releasing effectively duplicate kits with the serial numbers filed off

i think it's more likely they'll leave it up to players to decide to bring them in (and write rules for them, although some in WD is an outside possibility),

and people will just have to wait for their gang to get whatever new mode of transport they're going to get in the same way people have had to wait for first their gang to be released (if they didn't want to play Escher or Goliath), and later for the second round of plastics to show up

 aka_mythos wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Why would gangs bother nicking gear made for IG when their back alley crap is literally better in every way.

Exactly. The Imperial Guard and what's given up as tithe is the bottom of the barrel equipment. When you look at the little bits of lore and details you can piece together it seems like even Necromunda's PDF, as something distinct from the IG are in a variety of ways better equipped.

For example there is a particular pattern of lasgun prized by the PDF for its ability to mount an exterminator auxiliary flamer, which would generally imply at some level there is some regular use of auxiliary flamers by otherwise standard troopers. We also know the PDF make use of a servo arm like suspensor for their heavy stubbers.

These are by no means big jumps in quality of equipment over IG but they are still better than what the IG would typically get.

I don't think it is fair to say that the Imperial Guard gets bottom-of-the barrel stuff- tithes generally have a minimum standard, and planetary governors can be executed for substandard tithes. Therefore, typically, the best troops a planet has to offer are tithed into the Guard. The Guard also favours particular weapons for their reliability and easy logistics- lasguns in particular are excellent for this. There are worse weapons than lasguns available- autoguns are comparable in a firefight but generally considered worse military weapons overall. The HH Militia list has an "Auxilia rifle" profile intended to represent a variety of slug throwers in use by PDFs around the Imperium that are less effective than the standard autogun and lasgun- this is what PDFs will use on many planets.

Necromunda is an outlier because it is a core world within Segmentum Solar, one of the most important, advanced, and developed worlds outside of the Sol system. It is also specifically a massive producer of armaments. It is therefore unsurprising that it has a high level of tech floating around. In addition, it is likely that Guard regiments tithed from Necromunda are unusually well equipped, and may be equipped to standards far beyond an average regiment. However, they still have to function within the wider Departmento Munitorum logistics (or lack of it), so there will be a focus on the preferred weaponry like lasguns over autoguns/shotguns/etc. I would not be surprised if Necromundan Guard regiments do commonly carry combi-las and combi-bolter variants.

Bear in mind that the current Astra Militarum rules do not really represent the variety within the Imperial Guard. When the Necromunda Spiders were introduced, the Imperial Guard could take combi-weapons, storm bolters, suspensors, hand flamers etc. There has been rules support for entire Guard forces to be equipped with carapace armour, bionics, or have soldiers with equipment to match Stormtroopers as troops. Well-equipped elite Guard forces have been in the background lore since the beginning.

Also, even within this context there are a lot of advantages to a reliable, environmentally-sealed, buoyant, rugged design like the Chimera in the harsh environments of the Ash Wastes. They are widely used on Armageddon for the same reason.

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 Haighus wrote:

The SoB rhino is a MkI Deimos pattern, not the MkII Mars pattern used by the current SM kits, so a different sprue is warranted.

I'm speaking more broadly, those two instances of rhinos represents different approaches GW could take. The SoB rhino can be called a new kit, even a new pattern, but even the Forge deimos pattern rhinos under some resin was the plastic rhino. The SoB rhino was simply a rework of the standard rhino done at an earlier stage of their process than when they just make an add-on sprue. The SoB rhino shows that GW can just as easily rework digital assets as they can rebundle a sprue with some new stuff.

GW could justify going either route if they wanted to. End of the day IF a Ridgerunner is included in Necromunda there are only two possibilities, its the GSC kit with add-ons or its a digitally reworked Ridgerunner but with distinctive bits.

Eh, fair.

 Haighus wrote:

Good point.

Come to think of it, that probably makes it more suited for a paramilitary proxy supported by a massive industrial bloc within a heavily militarised interstellar state.

Is anything actually civilian in the Imperium, or is it military units with paramilitary units supporting the military? To be honest, I don't see why we couldn't have gangs rolling around in Chimeras and using gun Sentinels if they have the creds.

Actually old fluff said the opposite. STCs were for industrial/farming/exploration vehicles but the Imperium ended up weaponizing them. It was the hand wave for why these sci fi tanks looked like WWI and WWII vehicles.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Why is anyone acting at all surprised by any of this???

Totally agree. There is nothing to be surprised about here. People who ask for more vehicles or generic vehicles will get it. Some in White Dwarf. Some in books. Just have to wait a few years first. And Delaque vehicles come last (if at all).

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Why would gangs bother nicking gear made for IG when their back alley crap is literally better in every way.

Necromuna produced those patterned-weapons for the Imperium, it's fair to say that a portion of them will be leaked for other hivers who would use any weapons they could get their hands on.

There're also a handful of high value Imperial weapons that is illegal and only available on the black market: autocannon, power fist, inferno pistol...

Was looking at the Squat grav bike and noticed it has little Space Marine dreadnought-like legs on the rear. Now I can't unsee it galloping along the ground...

TGG wrote:
So who's getting the Votann hover trike for their ash waste squat prospectors? It doesn't look too hard to convert it to have wheels either... maybe it'll even be an option in the kit (who am I kidding )

Spoiler:

When I were a lad, inferno pistols were t just high value, they were unique to Dante Maybe Necromunda is where his private stash is manufactured

Remember in old Necromunda we finished a campaign once with the local Imperial Fists coming in to squish the gangs.

Had to arm them up big time to have a chance against some of the several month old gangs, that were armed with every type of plasma and melta weapon, advanced forcefield tech and multi-wound monsters.

The Imperium needs to ship some of these guys out to fight on the fronts against Xenos, the bad guys wouldn't stand a chance

Well I always rationalised that as the rules system was the same but they had different progression and starting points within it. In theory an unaugmented human can never hit the level of ability of a basic marine, so the stats aren't BS4 for both for example.

I wonder if they might just come out with a crew-sprue for each gang. That way, you could pick up an Achilles or a Goliath truck, and a sprue for your gang, with a sitting driver option, a gunner option, some guys standing around who could fit in the back of a truck options, etc.

 Grot 6 wrote:

Give me a free game, I'll shill all day till the cows come home. GW? Heck yeah!!! Greatest games on the planet! These games raise the dead, cure the sick, heal the wounded, feeds the poor!
Buy them, you can't live without them...

The Porsche 911 is the greatest car ever created. This new 2022 model will have ladies dropping their panties and throwing them at you when you drive by.



Note: My opinion has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Porsche gave me a 911 for free

SQUATS ARE COMING!

Ironhead Squat Prospectors! Excellent

So they're from Squat clans that 'live' on Necromunda, rather than from the Leagues of Votann.


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Next book is "The Book of the Outlands".

Book of the Outlands. Nomads, Squats and Orlocks with generic vehicle rules!
Rockgrinders and the like

 Kanluwen wrote:
Or maybe they just don't want to toss all that crap in?

This comment aged well.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Or maybe they just don't want to toss all that crap in?

This comment aged well.

When the whiteknighting backfires...