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"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
If it were Yarrick vs Ghaz I might care, as that match-up actually has stakes, but this feels drawn from a hat. Or, as the Psychic Snorefest drags onward thru perfectly mundane fights on a handful of planets, it feels like just an accidental match-up of factions that haven't been covered yet. (Though AdMech vs Daemons is really going to bring the 'who cares?' bar to new lows).
I was recently reminded of the pre-PA promo for the books, all that guff about how we would get answers to ancient mysteries and receive galaxy-shaking revelations and so on. I think it's safe to say none of that has come to pass.
To which I say- good.
Some mysteries should remain just that. Not everything needs to be codified. It is one of the single worst things about modern 40k background and ignorant individuals wanting these answers for no other reason than to have an answer (despite 40k working perfectly fine without such things and conflicting histories being a feature, rather than a bug in 40k...) are fuelling GW to remove all mystery from their franchise.
While I understand the sentiment, it can't be too much to ask of GW to follow through on their announcements. It's one thing having a teaser video with a hysterical Inquisitor showing an in character take on the coming narrative developments, it's another to have the marketing team make unambiguous declarations of what the campaign books will contain and then to find out that they don't. At least not for the majority of the series.
I'm only following Psychic Awakening from the sidelines but nothing that's been discussed about the narrative so far has piqued my interest and made me consider even reading it firsthand myself. Which is a notable low considering I took interest in most other GW campaign books even if they ended up being mediocre and I knew it in advance.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Platuan4th wrote: Yup, it's been mentioned in the fluff before that Ork heads continue living for a decent amount of time post decapitation. Most likely, Ragnar decapitated Ghaz, didn't take the head and some Dok or Mek(or both) reattached it to his/a Cybork body.
so Ghaz is nearly killed(or close enuff), Ragnar thinks he's won. a short time later, Ghaz pops back up(afta kros'n da rubik'kan), nearly kills Ragnar, thinks he's won. a short time later, Ragnar crosses the vlka rubifang and we get a stalemate since neither one can believe they didnt kill the other one.
No. According to that teaser video the chain of events seems to be as such;
1. Ragnar and Ghaz' fight on Krondar (or Grondar or wherever the feth we are now) and Ragnar 'takes Ghazzy's head' but 'at great cost' which implies to me a mutual destruction.
2. Ragnar gets Primfanged up. Ghazzy gets his head stuck back on and a new shoota.
3. Ragnar goes back to 'av anuva go'. We don't know outcome yet but very likely either stalemate or Ragnar wins for reals this time.
So Ghazzy has already lost once to a third in command chump captain of a marine subfaction. How the feth is he supposed to compete with the likes of Primarchs? I think GW are going to feth this release up in terms of lore - there's no point releasing a Primarch scale Ghaz' model to raise his threat level if you have him lose twice in the same breath to a subfaction mid-tier character. It utterly defeats the purpose.
We'll see soon I suppose, but the lore so far looks like a badly written SW fanfic the more snippets are revealed, which is disappointing.
The campaign books are historic, if he's alive in the codex he survives the fight.
Tbh if it was just a warboss of some ork subfactiobn killing off one of the imperiums greatest living heroes it'd be like poorly written ork fanfic.
edit: I am being intentionally facetious to highlight that repeatedly trying to call wolves a subfaction or that Ragnar isn't a primarch like it's relevant just looks a little over zealous.
As fellow Space Wolf player I can confirm that Wolves are a sub-faction of Marines which are of course a sub-faction of the Imperium.
Nearest comparison with Ragnar in Orks would be a specific Warboss of a Specific Clan of a specific Ork Kultur.
You seem to be confused about Ghaz, so its probbaly best to read some of the actual lore - he is currently the uniting force of the Orks, a similar figure to RG, the Primarch.
Hope that clears up your evident confusion about the world of Warhammer 40k
Or you know, that "Goff" tag on his datasheet, which means he is a warboss of a specifc klan, of a specific kulture. But I hope that clears up your evident lack of knowledge of the ork units current datasheets.
Edit: Plus I mean that'd be like comparing Yvraine to robooty, or comparing Aun'Va to Abbadon.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/03/09 13:58:19
Platuan4th wrote: Yup, it's been mentioned in the fluff before that Ork heads continue living for a decent amount of time post decapitation. Most likely, Ragnar decapitated Ghaz, didn't take the head and some Dok or Mek(or both) reattached it to his/a Cybork body.
so Ghaz is nearly killed(or close enuff), Ragnar thinks he's won. a short time later, Ghaz pops back up(afta kros'n da rubik'kan), nearly kills Ragnar, thinks he's won. a short time later, Ragnar crosses the vlka rubifang and we get a stalemate since neither one can believe they didnt kill the other one.
No. According to that teaser video the chain of events seems to be as such;
1. Ragnar and Ghaz' fight on Krondar (or Grondar or wherever the feth we are now) and Ragnar 'takes Ghazzy's head' but 'at great cost' which implies to me a mutual destruction.
2. Ragnar gets Primfanged up. Ghazzy gets his head stuck back on and a new shoota.
3. Ragnar goes back to 'av anuva go'. We don't know outcome yet but very likely either stalemate or Ragnar wins for reals this time.
So Ghazzy has already lost once to a third in command chump captain of a marine subfaction. How the feth is he supposed to compete with the likes of Primarchs? I think GW are going to feth this release up in terms of lore - there's no point releasing a Primarch scale Ghaz' model to raise his threat level if you have him lose twice in the same breath to a subfaction mid-tier character. It utterly defeats the purpose.
We'll see soon I suppose, but the lore so far looks like a badly written SW fanfic the more snippets are revealed, which is disappointing.
The campaign books are historic, if he's alive in the codex he survives the fight.
Tbh if it was just a warboss of some ork subfactiobn killing off one of the imperiums greatest living heroes it'd be like poorly written ork fanfic.
edit: I am being intentionally facetious to highlight that repeatedly trying to call wolves a subfaction or that Ragnar isn't a primarch like it's relevant just looks a little over zealous.
As fellow Space Wolf player I can confirm that Wolves are a sub-faction of Marines which are of course a sub-faction of the Imperium.
Nearest comparison with Ragnar in Orks would be a specific Warboss of a Specific Clan of a specific Ork Kultur.
You seem to be confused about Ghaz, so its probbaly best to read some of the actual lore - he is currently the uniting force of the Orks, a similar figure to RG, the Primarch.
Hope that clears up your evident confusion about the world of Warhammer 40k
Or you know, that "Goff" tag on his datasheet, which means he is a warboss of a specifc klan, of a specific kulture. But I hope that clears up your evident lack of knowledge of the ork units current datasheets.
Edit: Plus I mean that'd be like comparing Yvraine to robooty, or comparing Aun'Va to Abbadon.
The Goff-Keyword proves nothing. Roboute has the Ultramarines Keyword and still is the de facto leader of the whole Imperium
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like soup. Now you put soup in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put soup into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now soup can flow or it can crash. Be soup, my friend.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ghaz keeps his <GOFF> keyword but also get a special rule ala Flashgitz allowing him to not break a Detachment if he is used with another Klan.
Platuan4th wrote: Yup, it's been mentioned in the fluff before that Ork heads continue living for a decent amount of time post decapitation. Most likely, Ragnar decapitated Ghaz, didn't take the head and some Dok or Mek(or both) reattached it to his/a Cybork body.
so Ghaz is nearly killed(or close enuff), Ragnar thinks he's won. a short time later, Ghaz pops back up(afta kros'n da rubik'kan), nearly kills Ragnar, thinks he's won. a short time later, Ragnar crosses the vlka rubifang and we get a stalemate since neither one can believe they didnt kill the other one.
No. According to that teaser video the chain of events seems to be as such;
1. Ragnar and Ghaz' fight on Krondar (or Grondar or wherever the feth we are now) and Ragnar 'takes Ghazzy's head' but 'at great cost' which implies to me a mutual destruction.
2. Ragnar gets Primfanged up. Ghazzy gets his head stuck back on and a new shoota.
3. Ragnar goes back to 'av anuva go'. We don't know outcome yet but very likely either stalemate or Ragnar wins for reals this time.
So Ghazzy has already lost once to a third in command chump captain of a marine subfaction. How the feth is he supposed to compete with the likes of Primarchs? I think GW are going to feth this release up in terms of lore - there's no point releasing a Primarch scale Ghaz' model to raise his threat level if you have him lose twice in the same breath to a subfaction mid-tier character. It utterly defeats the purpose.
We'll see soon I suppose, but the lore so far looks like a badly written SW fanfic the more snippets are revealed, which is disappointing.
The campaign books are historic, if he's alive in the codex he survives the fight.
Tbh if it was just a warboss of some ork subfactiobn killing off one of the imperiums greatest living heroes it'd be like poorly written ork fanfic.
edit: I am being intentionally facetious to highlight that repeatedly trying to call wolves a subfaction or that Ragnar isn't a primarch like it's relevant just looks a little over zealous.
As fellow Space Wolf player I can confirm that Wolves are a sub-faction of Marines which are of course a sub-faction of the Imperium.
Nearest comparison with Ragnar in Orks would be a specific Warboss of a Specific Clan of a specific Ork Kultur.
You seem to be confused about Ghaz, so its probbaly best to read some of the actual lore - he is currently the uniting force of the Orks, a similar figure to RG, the Primarch.
Hope that clears up your evident confusion about the world of Warhammer 40k
Or you know, that "Goff" tag on his datasheet, which means he is a warboss of a specifc klan, of a specific kulture. But I hope that clears up your evident lack of knowledge of the ork units current datasheets.
Edit: Plus I mean that'd be like comparing Yvraine to robooty, or comparing Aun'Va to Abbadon.
The Goff-Keyword proves nothing. Roboute has the Ultramarines Keyword and still is the de facto leader of the whole Imperium
But it's not about their relative import, it's about the fact they're 2 legendary fighters and the fact he's from a "subfaction of a subfaction of a faction" literally doesn't matter. They're 2 strong legendary combatants and that it's fine for them to be facing off, his rank and origin don't devalue him same way Ghazzy being a Goff doesn't mean he isn't frikking huge and killy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/09 14:09:42
Platuan4th wrote: Yup, it's been mentioned in the fluff before that Ork heads continue living for a decent amount of time post decapitation. Most likely, Ragnar decapitated Ghaz, didn't take the head and some Dok or Mek(or both) reattached it to his/a Cybork body.
so Ghaz is nearly killed(or close enuff), Ragnar thinks he's won. a short time later, Ghaz pops back up(afta kros'n da rubik'kan), nearly kills Ragnar, thinks he's won. a short time later, Ragnar crosses the vlka rubifang and we get a stalemate since neither one can believe they didnt kill the other one.
No. According to that teaser video the chain of events seems to be as such;
1. Ragnar and Ghaz' fight on Krondar (or Grondar or wherever the feth we are now) and Ragnar 'takes Ghazzy's head' but 'at great cost' which implies to me a mutual destruction.
2. Ragnar gets Primfanged up. Ghazzy gets his head stuck back on and a new shoota.
3. Ragnar goes back to 'av anuva go'. We don't know outcome yet but very likely either stalemate or Ragnar wins for reals this time.
So Ghazzy has already lost once to a third in command chump captain of a marine subfaction. How the feth is he supposed to compete with the likes of Primarchs? I think GW are going to feth this release up in terms of lore - there's no point releasing a Primarch scale Ghaz' model to raise his threat level if you have him lose twice in the same breath to a subfaction mid-tier character. It utterly defeats the purpose.
We'll see soon I suppose, but the lore so far looks like a badly written SW fanfic the more snippets are revealed, which is disappointing.
The campaign books are historic, if he's alive in the codex he survives the fight.
Tbh if it was just a warboss of some ork subfactiobn killing off one of the imperiums greatest living heroes it'd be like poorly written ork fanfic.
edit: I am being intentionally facetious to highlight that repeatedly trying to call wolves a subfaction or that Ragnar isn't a primarch like it's relevant just looks a little over zealous.
As fellow Space Wolf player I can confirm that Wolves are a sub-faction of Marines which are of course a sub-faction of the Imperium.
Nearest comparison with Ragnar in Orks would be a specific Warboss of a Specific Clan of a specific Ork Kultur.
You seem to be confused about Ghaz, so its probbaly best to read some of the actual lore - he is currently the uniting force of the Orks, a similar figure to RG, the Primarch.
Hope that clears up your evident confusion about the world of Warhammer 40k
Or you know, that "Goff" tag on his datasheet, which means he is a warboss of a specifc klan, of a specific kulture. But I hope that clears up your evident lack of knowledge of the ork units current datasheets.
Edit: Plus I mean that'd be like comparing Yvraine to robooty, or comparing Aun'Va to Abbadon.
The Goff-Keyword proves nothing. Roboute has the Ultramarines Keyword and still is the de facto leader of the whole Imperium
But it's not about their relavtive import, it's about the fact they're 2 legendary fighters and the fact he's from a "subfaction of a subfaction of a faction" literally doesn't matter. They're 2 strong legendary combatants and that it's fine for them to be facing off, his rank and origin don't devale him same way Ghazzy being a Goff doesn't mean he isn't frikking huge and killy.
Ok, good point. But still, there is (or at least should be) a considerable power-difference between Ragnar and Ghaz. If Ragnar beats Ghaz, whats with Logan Grimnar then? Would he be able to fight him, one hand tied behind his back? What about Gulliman?
I know it is stupid arguing about who comes out a winner between two fictional characters and honestly, I despise those strange nerd-fest 1v1s (Goku vs Superman, Emps vs Dr. Manhatten etc), but you still need perspective. And letting Ghaz lose against Ragnar fluffwise is stupid in the same way that Jain-Zhar gets bested by any random Smash-Captain Marines can field
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like soup. Now you put soup in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put soup into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now soup can flow or it can crash. Be soup, my friend.
Platuan4th wrote: Yup, it's been mentioned in the fluff before that Ork heads continue living for a decent amount of time post decapitation. Most likely, Ragnar decapitated Ghaz, didn't take the head and some Dok or Mek(or both) reattached it to his/a Cybork body.
so Ghaz is nearly killed(or close enuff), Ragnar thinks he's won. a short time later, Ghaz pops back up(afta kros'n da rubik'kan), nearly kills Ragnar, thinks he's won. a short time later, Ragnar crosses the vlka rubifang and we get a stalemate since neither one can believe they didnt kill the other one.
No. According to that teaser video the chain of events seems to be as such;
1. Ragnar and Ghaz' fight on Krondar (or Grondar or wherever the feth we are now) and Ragnar 'takes Ghazzy's head' but 'at great cost' which implies to me a mutual destruction.
2. Ragnar gets Primfanged up. Ghazzy gets his head stuck back on and a new shoota.
3. Ragnar goes back to 'av anuva go'. We don't know outcome yet but very likely either stalemate or Ragnar wins for reals this time.
So Ghazzy has already lost once to a third in command chump captain of a marine subfaction. How the feth is he supposed to compete with the likes of Primarchs? I think GW are going to feth this release up in terms of lore - there's no point releasing a Primarch scale Ghaz' model to raise his threat level if you have him lose twice in the same breath to a subfaction mid-tier character. It utterly defeats the purpose.
We'll see soon I suppose, but the lore so far looks like a badly written SW fanfic the more snippets are revealed, which is disappointing.
The campaign books are historic, if he's alive in the codex he survives the fight.
Tbh if it was just a warboss of some ork subfactiobn killing off one of the imperiums greatest living heroes it'd be like poorly written ork fanfic.
edit: I am being intentionally facetious to highlight that repeatedly trying to call wolves a subfaction or that Ragnar isn't a primarch like it's relevant just looks a little over zealous.
As fellow Space Wolf player I can confirm that Wolves are a sub-faction of Marines which are of course a sub-faction of the Imperium.
Nearest comparison with Ragnar in Orks would be a specific Warboss of a Specific Clan of a specific Ork Kultur.
You seem to be confused about Ghaz, so its probbaly best to read some of the actual lore - he is currently the uniting force of the Orks, a similar figure to RG, the Primarch.
Hope that clears up your evident confusion about the world of Warhammer 40k
Or you know, that "Goff" tag on his datasheet, which means he is a warboss of a specifc klan, of a specific kulture. But I hope that clears up your evident lack of knowledge of the ork units current datasheets.
Edit: Plus I mean that'd be like comparing Yvraine to robooty, or comparing Aun'Va to Abbadon.
The Goff-Keyword proves nothing. Roboute has the Ultramarines Keyword and still is the de facto leader of the whole Imperium
But it's not about their relavtive import, it's about the fact they're 2 legendary fighters and the fact he's from a "subfaction of a subfaction of a faction" literally doesn't matter. They're 2 strong legendary combatants and that it's fine for them to be facing off, his rank and origin don't devale him same way Ghazzy being a Goff doesn't mean he isn't frikking huge and killy.
Ok, good point. But still, there is (or at least should be) a considerable power-difference between Ragnar and Ghaz. If Ragnar beats Ghaz, whats with Logan Grimnar then? Would he be able to fight him, one hand tied behind his back? What about Gulliman?
I know it is stupid arguing about who comes out a winner between two fictional characters and honestly, I despise those strange nerd-fest 1v1s (Goku vs Superman, Emps vs Dr. Manhatten etc), but you still need perspective. And letting Ghaz lose against Ragnar fluffwise is stupid in the same way that Jain-Zhar gets bested by any random Smash-Captain Marines can field
Lets turn this on it's head, who would you consider a fair opponent for Ghaz fluffwise? Not talking about statesmanship or any of that none-sense, just straight up 1v1 combat skills. We know primarchs have killed bigger orks than him before in the heresy, we know guilliman can more or less stand his own against the daemon primarchs (just), so to me they're all likely to beat him. After that you're down to standard marine characters, is the best of the best 1v1 enough? If not then what number of heroes v Ghaz is fair? And with regard Grimnar, you have to remember, he's just the most senior commander, it doesn't necessarily make him the better fighter, likewsie they might fight in different ways and one combat method gives them an advantage etc.
Platuan4th wrote: Yup, it's been mentioned in the fluff before that Ork heads continue living for a decent amount of time post decapitation. Most likely, Ragnar decapitated Ghaz, didn't take the head and some Dok or Mek(or both) reattached it to his/a Cybork body.
so Ghaz is nearly killed(or close enuff), Ragnar thinks he's won. a short time later, Ghaz pops back up(afta kros'n da rubik'kan), nearly kills Ragnar, thinks he's won. a short time later, Ragnar crosses the vlka rubifang and we get a stalemate since neither one can believe they didnt kill the other one.
No. According to that teaser video the chain of events seems to be as such;
1. Ragnar and Ghaz' fight on Krondar (or Grondar or wherever the feth we are now) and Ragnar 'takes Ghazzy's head' but 'at great cost' which implies to me a mutual destruction.
2. Ragnar gets Primfanged up. Ghazzy gets his head stuck back on and a new shoota.
3. Ragnar goes back to 'av anuva go'. We don't know outcome yet but very likely either stalemate or Ragnar wins for reals this time.
So Ghazzy has already lost once to a third in command chump captain of a marine subfaction. How the feth is he supposed to compete with the likes of Primarchs? I think GW are going to feth this release up in terms of lore - there's no point releasing a Primarch scale Ghaz' model to raise his threat level if you have him lose twice in the same breath to a subfaction mid-tier character. It utterly defeats the purpose.
We'll see soon I suppose, but the lore so far looks like a badly written SW fanfic the more snippets are revealed, which is disappointing.
The campaign books are historic, if he's alive in the codex he survives the fight.
Tbh if it was just a warboss of some ork subfactiobn killing off one of the imperiums greatest living heroes it'd be like poorly written ork fanfic.
edit: I am being intentionally facetious to highlight that repeatedly trying to call wolves a subfaction or that Ragnar isn't a primarch like it's relevant just looks a little over zealous.
As fellow Space Wolf player I can confirm that Wolves are a sub-faction of Marines which are of course a sub-faction of the Imperium.
Nearest comparison with Ragnar in Orks would be a specific Warboss of a Specific Clan of a specific Ork Kultur.
You seem to be confused about Ghaz, so its probbaly best to read some of the actual lore - he is currently the uniting force of the Orks, a similar figure to RG, the Primarch.
Hope that clears up your evident confusion about the world of Warhammer 40k
Or you know, that "Goff" tag on his datasheet, which means he is a warboss of a specifc klan, of a specific kulture. But I hope that clears up your evident lack of knowledge of the ork units current datasheets.
Edit: Plus I mean that'd be like comparing Yvraine to robooty, or comparing Aun'Va to Abbadon.
The Goff-Keyword proves nothing. Roboute has the Ultramarines Keyword and still is the de facto leader of the whole Imperium
But it's not about their relavtive import, it's about the fact they're 2 legendary fighters and the fact he's from a "subfaction of a subfaction of a faction" literally doesn't matter. They're 2 strong legendary combatants and that it's fine for them to be facing off, his rank and origin don't devale him same way Ghazzy being a Goff doesn't mean he isn't frikking huge and killy.
Ok, good point. But still, there is (or at least should be) a considerable power-difference between Ragnar and Ghaz. If Ragnar beats Ghaz, whats with Logan Grimnar then? Would he be able to fight him, one hand tied behind his back? What about Gulliman?
I know it is stupid arguing about who comes out a winner between two fictional characters and honestly, I despise those strange nerd-fest 1v1s (Goku vs Superman, Emps vs Dr. Manhatten etc), but you still need perspective. And letting Ghaz lose against Ragnar fluffwise is stupid in the same way that Jain-Zhar gets bested by any random Smash-Captain Marines can field
Lets turn this on it's head, who would you consider a fair opponent for Ghaz fluffwise? Not talking about statesmanship or any of that none-sense, just straight up 1v1 combat skills. We know primarchs have killed bigger orks than him before in the heresy, we know guilliman can more or less stand his own against the daemon primarchs (just), so to me they're all likely to beat him. After that you're down to standard marine characters, is the best of the best 1v1 enough? If not then what number of heroes v Ghaz is fair? And with regard Grimnar, you have to remember, he's just the most senior commander, it doesn't necessarily make him the better fighter, likewsie they might fight in different ways and one combat method gives them an advantage etc.
Not do derail this thread any further, but I'd say he SHOULD be on par with the primarchs. There was "The beast" which was more than a match for any primarch and also, why shouldnt the Orks have something that can go toe to toe with a primarch? Wouldn't that make everything more interessting? If everyone is on he same level? If the imperium is beset by enemies that MATCH it's greatest heroes?
I for one would enjoy a beefed up Ghaz who starts to step into the footprints of the legendary beast.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like soup. Now you put soup in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put soup into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now soup can flow or it can crash. Be soup, my friend.
Dudeface wrote: Lets turn this on it's head, who would you consider a fair opponent for Ghaz fluffwise?
Emps, primarchs, and then the most dangerous and powerful character in the entire Imperium, the one that Khorne is afraid of making angry, the one that can outwit Tzeentch and who Slaanesh has wet dreams about, I am of course talking about that legend that would slap Gazhkull like a mere fly, the awesomestest Sly Marbo.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
One of the simplest problems of saying "X should be on par with Primarchs!" is that the Primarchs weren't necessarily created equal--and out of the 3 we currently have 40k rules for? Only one isn't a Daemonically enhanced murdermachine.
Ok, good point. But still, there is (or at least should be) a considerable power-difference between Ragnar and Ghaz. If Ragnar beats Ghaz, whats with Logan Grimnar then? Would he be able to fight him, one hand tied behind his back? What about Gulliman?
I agree there should be a considerable power difference between Ragnar and Ghaz. But do you think every fight ever should determined by pure power only? Should skill, luck, tactics, battlefield or foresight not have a part to play? Henry V disagrees with you. Finland 1939-1940 disagrees with you. I would agree that Ghaz should hit like the proverbial Mack truck. While it should take Ragnar several hits to disable Ghazzy. But Ragnar is legendarily fast for even a Space Marine. Back when Space Marine commanders all had Displacer and Conversion fields, Ragnar had a dodge save. I'm not saying it should be a 50-50 fight. I'm saying you are being too quick to pick your favorite and concentrate only on his strengths.
Ok, good point. But still, there is (or at least should be) a considerable power-difference between Ragnar and Ghaz. If Ragnar beats Ghaz, whats with Logan Grimnar then? Would he be able to fight him, one hand tied behind his back? What about Gulliman?
I agree there should be a considerable power difference between Ragnar and Ghaz. But do you think every fight ever should determined by pure power only? Should skill, luck, tactics, battlefield or foresight not have a part to play? Henry V disagrees with you. Finland 1939-1940 disagrees with you. I would agree that Ghaz should hit like the proverbial Mack truck. While it should take Ragnar several hits to disable Ghazzy. But Ragnar is legendarily fast for even a Space Marine. Back when Space Marine commanders all had Displacer and Conversion fields, Ragnar had a dodge save. I'm not saying it should be a 50-50 fight. I'm saying you are being too quick to pick your favorite and concentrate only on his strengths.
It's not about favoritism (is this even a word ) I despise Gulliman and still I think he should be able to beat Ragnar (which I actually like quite a lot) in a heartbeat. Just becuase I like a character doesn't mean I want to see him win every fight. And since even GW is hyping up a big 1v1 I think it will come down to a classic "fistfight" so close to no battlefield foresight etc.
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Voss wrote: Reversing actual decapitation... that's a bit much.
I'm almost positive that the 4th ed codex says an Ork can survive decapitation if their head is reattached shortly afterwards.
Ghaz himself has already survived a bolter round pulping his brain from when he was an Ork Boy.
Although at this stage, what is "a bit much" is the idea that a relatively small Space Muhreen with a chainsword howled at the mooooooon and decapitated a dreadnought sized Ghaz at the height of his power right as he was becoming the axis of the biggest waaaagh in over 5,000 years. His Power Klaw is bigger than Ragnar per the teaser vid. Does he not have his retinue of Bully Boyz, or the Council of the Waaaagh? Are there any ork boys within a thousand miles, or he just decided to meet said space wulf on a hill, alone, just to make for a good show?
I agree there should be a considerable power difference between Ragnar and Ghaz. But do you think every fight ever should determined by pure power only? Should skill, luck, tactics, battlefield or foresight not have a part to play? Henry V disagrees with you. Finland 1939-1940 disagrees with you. I would agree that Ghaz should hit like the proverbial Mack truck. While it should take Ragnar several hits to disable Ghazzy. But Ragnar is legendarily fast for even a Space Marine. Back when Space Marine commanders all had Displacer and Conversion fields, Ragnar had a dodge save. I'm not saying it should be a 50-50 fight. I'm saying you are being too quick to pick your favorite and concentrate only on his strengths.
Ghaz chumped Belial, Grand Master of the Deathwing. Belial is no buffoon or an incompetent tactician, and last I checked he has the same Space Marine genetic enhancements as Ragnar. This was also before Ghaz punched his way out of a Mawloc and got significantly larger and more powerful after engaging in what was previously a never ending war with a Tyranid Hive Fleet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/09 15:00:07
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
Voss wrote: Reversing actual decapitation... that's a bit much.
I'm almost positive that the 4th ed codex says an Ork can survive decapitation if their head is reattached shortly afterwards.
Yup: "Orks are quite capable of being beheaded, having the head sewn onto a different body, and surviving the experience to fight again."
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Well the way GW is billing it, they should meet in a literal boxing ring. Which would favor Ghaz even more. While I have little respect for GW writers I hope they do a bit better than that. Don't expect them to however.
Voss wrote: Reversing actual decapitation... that's a bit much.
I'm almost positive that the 4th ed codex says an Ork can survive decapitation if their head is reattached shortly afterwards.
Ghaz himself has already survived a bolter round pulping his brain from when he was an Ork Boy.
Although at this stage, what is "a bit much" is the idea that a relatively small Space Muhreen with a chainsword howled at the mooooooon and decapitated a dreadnought sized Ghaz at the height of his power right as he was becoming the axis of the biggest waaaagh in over 5,000 years. His Power Klaw is bigger than Ragnar per the teaser vid. Does he not have his retinue of Bully Boyz, or the Council of the Waaaagh? Are there any ork boys within a thousand miles, or he just decided to meet said space wulf on a hill, alone, just to make for a good show?
I agree there should be a considerable power difference between Ragnar and Ghaz. But do you think every fight ever should determined by pure power only? Should skill, luck, tactics, battlefield or foresight not have a part to play? Henry V disagrees with you. Finland 1939-1940 disagrees with you. I would agree that Ghaz should hit like the proverbial Mack truck. While it should take Ragnar several hits to disable Ghazzy. But Ragnar is legendarily fast for even a Space Marine. Back when Space Marine commanders all had Displacer and Conversion fields, Ragnar had a dodge save. I'm not saying it should be a 50-50 fight. I'm saying you are being too quick to pick your favorite and concentrate only on his strengths.
Ghaz chumped Belial, Grand Master of the Deathwing. Belial is no buffoon or an incompetent tactician, and last I checked he has the same Space Marine genetic enhancements as Ragnar. This was also before Ghaz punched his way out of a Mawloc and got significantly larger and more powerful after engaging in what was previously a never ending war with a Tyranid Hive Fleet.
Ghaz is very likely to have a showy one v one with someone to show how 'ard he is, that's a key part of Orks way of life. Frankly his power klaw can be building sized, it never matters if he can't catch his target. Both are good fighters in their own way, it doesn't matter how big they are, or how many things they killed or what they're armed with. Pretty sure a trained professional could take a persons head off with a butterknife given the right time, never mind a chainsaw.
Ok, good point. But still, there is (or at least should be) a considerable power-difference between Ragnar and Ghaz. If Ragnar beats Ghaz, whats with Logan Grimnar then? Would he be able to fight him, one hand tied behind his back? What about Gulliman?
I agree there should be a considerable power difference between Ragnar and Ghaz. But do you think every fight ever should determined by pure power only? Should skill, luck, tactics, battlefield or foresight not have a part to play? Henry V disagrees with you. Finland 1939-1940 disagrees with you. I would agree that Ghaz should hit like the proverbial Mack truck. While it should take Ragnar several hits to disable Ghazzy. But Ragnar is legendarily fast for even a Space Marine. Back when Space Marine commanders all had Displacer and Conversion fields, Ragnar had a dodge save. I'm not saying it should be a 50-50 fight. I'm saying you are being too quick to pick your favorite and concentrate only on his strengths.
It's not about favoritism (is this even a word ) I despise Gulliman and still I think he should be able to beat Ragnar (which I actually like quite a lot) in a heartbeat. Just becuase I like a character doesn't mean I want to see him win every fight. And since even GW is hyping up a big 1v1 I think it will come down to a classic "fistfight" so close to no battlefield foresight etc.
Also there is no way that
A) Ragnar is going to be significantly more expensive pointswise than his current...what...130pts?
B) Ghazzy is going to be significantly cheaper than his current...240 or so?
I'm guessing they'll both get pumped up rules and either the same or more expensive points (if they feel like buffing Ghazzy they might give him a stat boost and leave his pts the same) so if they change the rules so that the fight is a close fight, either Gazzy will end up super UP or Ragnar will end up super OP.
Unless Ghazghkull gets a WAY better aura effect than he does now, or Ragnar basically has no aura effects. As it stands, Ghaz and Ragnar have not so different auras. Rag has a reroll charge + reroll 1s to hit aura, Ghaz has advance and charge and +1A on the charge aura. So Ghaz has a slightly stronger offensive aura but it's melee only (And marines just get it army-wide on everything) and he's got a slightly stronger charge bonus aura (and Orks get Ragnar's charge aura army-wide)
Voss wrote: Reversing actual decapitation... that's a bit much.
I'm almost positive that the 4th ed codex says an Ork can survive decapitation if their head is reattached shortly afterwards.
Yup: "Orks are quite capable of being beheaded, having the head sewn onto a different body, and surviving the experience to fight again."
Ok, but.
hear me out here.
We're all assuming ghazghkull is big because big man in robot suit get bigger, put on more robot.
What if we're wrong
what if Ghazghkull is *plot twist* ONLY HEAD.
Ragnar takes ghazghkull head, cuts it off, rolls into dirt, ghazzy plays dead, ragnar goes "Good show lads! I'd pick that head up but sadly, before my primaris change surgery my arms are very very short and only stick out to the side! so I'll just leave that there then, can't reach it!"
and then Ghaz just has his mek buddy pick up his head and build him an even bigger better robot suit.
It's BRILLIANT.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/09 15:18:47
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
I'll like to point out that real and narrative fighting is not like a videogame with stats and mathematical outcomes.
One character can defeat or kill another that is much better than him and more powerfull by a ton of reasons and not all of them need to be deus ex machinas or forced. I mean. If you shoot with a bolter at a sleeping guilliman in the head he'll die. That doesn't mean is easy to kill him, but hes mortal.
I mean... Geralt of Rivia, the swordmaster, monsterkiller and womanslayer ends up
Spoiler:
being killed by a angry peasant that stabs him on his back with a pitchfork
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/09 15:22:28
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
.
You know it!
) I despise Gulliman and still I think he should be able to beat Ragnar (which I actually like quite a lot) in a heartbeat. Just becuase I like a character doesn't mean I want to see him win every fight. And since even 
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
