Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 .Mikes. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
[pologies, didn't mean to trigger anyone.

I haven't been following this particular discussion, but the quoted phrase is used exclusively by people who have lost an argument think it will somehow save them some face by trying to paint the other party as hysterical ro irrational.

Free advice: it doesn't.

You say that but I'm baffled as to what argument Hybrid Son was supposed to be making.

NinthMusketeer - "These factions are so aesthetically similar that I swapped half the models between factions and you didn't notice."

Hybrid Son - "Nonsense! And you cheated by making it greyscale! Now allow me to prove how different they are by asking you to identify which of the two factions this piece of artwork belongs to. I'll also specify that you're not allowed to cheat... thus undermining my own point by implying that the factions are so interchangeable you can't even tell which is which from their own, fully-coloured artwork."

 vipoid wrote:
+Hybrid Son - "Nonsense! And you cheated by making it greyscale!

There was an explicit attempt at misdirection. I mean, it's like the most basic thing about close-up magic! You focus the attention of the audience on your left hand, so they don't see what you do with your right hand. And that's not me being paranoid, Ninth Musketeer explicitly says so.
This is much more telling about Ninth Musketeer talents at manipulation than it is about how distinguishable the faction looks.

 vipoid wrote:
Now allow me to prove how different they are by asking you to identify which of the two factions this piece of artwork belongs to. I'll also specify that you're not allowed to cheat... thus undermining my own point by implying that the factions are so interchangeable you can't even tell which is which from their own, fully-coloured artwork."

Great. Could you tell, Vipoid? Because if so, I rest my case.

A faction's color identity is part of its identity. And, in the concept art they are quite different. So with a few tweaks to the actual sculpts and paints, that can be fixed.

I've done concepts, sculpts, and worked with concept artists. It's mainly a translation issue that can be fixed... if PP listens to people enough to do so early on. This is not an intrinsic issue to the game, and even if the current sculpts are final, as each faction gets more units and the workflow matures the differences between factions will grow. Then when the old molds wear out they can update the original units like they've done in the past.

Besides, at least it's not endless legions of the same space marines. Right? Riiiight?

Simple digital desaturation isn't the best indicator, because you literally lose the color info without punching the levels/contrasts up to compensate. You see this if you try to just desaturate a film to make it black and white. The reality of proper black and white films use a lot of techniques to alter the contrast. Although silhouettes, being pure black on white (or reverse) work as well.

LASTLY. These are all human models of basic troops. There's literally only so much differentiation you can do before you

I give PP a lot of crap, buuut some of you guys are fixated on this far, far beyond preferring more distinct units.

Let's drop this OT argument about the edited pic, please - everyone has made their point, and it's time to move on (or take it to PM, if you can keep it polite and all parties want to continue).

Any further posts on this tangent will be removed...

Thanks all

If we can't talk about the sculpts and we can't talk about the market W:NM is launching into what can we talk about in this thread?

If you read my post again, it is only the edited pic tangent that needs to end - anything about market, sculpts, etc is fair game!

For myself, I was super excited at the start, and am still interested. If I was local to Boss Salvage, it'd be a no-brainer . Maximum chonk!!

I'm not sure why people keep saying that the two factions we've seen so far are hard to distinguish. They're very clearly different, with many different visual signifiers. Aside from looking like they were created by the same artist and come from the same setting they don't actually look very similar at all.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Great. Could you tell, Vipoid? Because if so, I rest my case.

To be perfectly honest, no, not without cheating.

I can tell that it's the more Tau-like of the two factions (as opposed to the other, which was more Infinity-esque). However, I can't remember whether that makes them the Marcher Worlds or the Iron Star Alliance. Nor, I fear, are the names themselves especially useful when it comes to distinguishing between them.

Low faction identity is the reason I never started infinity. Minis are a bit too similar in my opinion. But still not to the same affect, as armies presented here. And at least Infinity has gorgeous minis.
Any army in greyscale could still be easily identified in 40k, WFB, AoS, Hordes, KoW. Even Malifaux won’t suffer as much. Warcatser? Yeah, nah...

For me its not the difference between factions, but that a good few factions in Infinity look far too similar within themselves. Aleph has a lot of characters, but they don't really feel like they stand out from each other enough to my view. I think this is enhanced there because a lot of the detailing they have is very fine detailing (hard to paint) and also a lot more subtle, esp on the tabletop as opposed to in product photos.

Lets also not forget Warcaster only has one troop and one heavy on show at present. There's still ample room for more diversity within factions as the armies get larger - and I'm sure we will see some of that in the KS

Here's some Marcher art ripped out of PP's IG:



Rangers



Hunters

Hunters look great, Destiny in the house

Wow, very destiny! And I actually love the infantry (chunkiness and all - Infinity's fiddly metals constantly broke apart for me and required painting touch-ups). Just wish they'd change that head-in-torso look on the big robots >.<

 jake wrote:
I'm not sure why people keep saying that the two factions we've seen so far are hard to distinguish. They're very clearly different, with many different visual signifiers. Aside from looking like they were created by the same artist and come from the same setting they don't actually look very similar at all.

Marcher worlds are very old school PP. Ragged cloaks over makeshift armor, jacks that are mostly 3 large orbs side by side as the upper torso.

I feel like the Paladin stuff is a little more curved than I would expect from what is clearly inspired by Menoth, and that leads to it being less distinct, but there's very little in common with them structurally. If anything, I think they just need stronger color palettes.

Necro-pirates stand out over the other two significantly and do a better job of conveying their inspirations.

I really like the Marcher stuff. There's a nice hodgepodge feel to them.

KS, er, kicking off tomorrow Wed 4th March.

https://home.privateerpress.com/warcaster/?fbclid=IwAR3N0zcvTLVQ8h9Hs5hZHA0jPE9q1DQ0pUJY6vSPbD7RgP9PORQBT_Y-aoM

I mean, I COULD see myself getting some of the models sometime in the future for a game like Star Breach? I have to admit I do like some of the Destiny or Old Republic-stylings in the concept art. I see that more than some people see the "Infinity ripoff".

There's a part of me that really likes the idea of a "Science Fiction Fantasy" game that is the polar opposite of the art style of 40K.

The bummer is that I haven't really liked the gameplay style of Warmachine since the original MK1 days.

Well it’s entirely different gameplay from Warmachine, so that might not be an issue for you.

Well... not entirely, but almost all the core aspects are different.

A few things that are still same or similar to Warmachine:
* Arc (Focus) resource management, although everyone is 7 Arc (for now). However, how to distribute Arc and how it's used is drastically different.
* Models still individually target and shoot each other, even though there are units/squads that act together.
* Cover rules mostly the same, although fewer terrain rules overall for simplicity sake.

I'll edit the list as more people remember stuff. Sometimes it's useful to see what's staying the same, if only to illustrate how much has changed.

I mean, apparently there isn't even a point system when building armies, just a unit list of things to summon in that you have to balance out.

Looks cool. Any word on material yet?

 weasel_beef wrote:
Looks cool. Any word on material yet?

metal I heard.

I've come around a little on the game over the last few days. I'm still not going to buy in at the Kickstarter stage but if there was a demo being played I'd stick around to watch it and see if I could take a turn next.

 Canadian 5th wrote:
I've come around a little on the game over the last few days. I'm still not going to buy in at the Kickstarter stage but if there was a demo being played I'd stick around to watch it and see if I could take a turn next.

still kind of curious as to the price for the kickstarter.

I just hope its a long KS and not a "1-2 week" affair.

 thekingofkings wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:
I've come around a little on the game over the last few days. I'm still not going to buy in at the Kickstarter stage but if there was a demo being played I'd stick around to watch it and see if I could take a turn next.

still kind of curious as to the price for the kickstarter.

I'm curious as well.

I think that if they come out swinging in terms of value for money that'll change a lot of minds in a hurry, mine included. If it's viewed as being too expensive that could kill it on the spot.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 thekingofkings wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:
I've come around a little on the game over the last few days. I'm still not going to buy in at the Kickstarter stage but if there was a demo being played I'd stick around to watch it and see if I could take a turn next.

still kind of curious as to the price for the kickstarter.

I'm curious as well.

I think that if they come out swinging in terms of value for money that'll change a lot of minds in a hurry, mine included. If it's viewed as being too expensive that could kill it on the spot.

Thinking the same thing.

I wonder if there will be a Retribution of Scyrah faction that just uses the current models, they would fit right in.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
I wonder if there will be a Retribution of Scyrah faction that just uses the current models, they would fit right in.

Personally I'd like it if they launched with 4 factions, that way if the price is good I might convince my 4 man kitchen table gaming group to give it a look. We tried 40k but the investment is too much and the games are too long for anybody besides myself to be invested.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
I wonder if there will be a Retribution of Scyrah faction that just uses the current models, they would fit right in.

Fairly sure it was mentioned that none of the factions would be recognisably linked to Warmahordes, other than Cyriss (which might just be in the background).

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:
I wonder if there will be a Retribution of Scyrah faction that just uses the current models, they would fit right in.

Personally I'd like it if they launched with 4 factions, that way if the price is good I might convince my 4 man kitchen table gaming group to give it a look. We tried 40k but the investment is too much and the games are too long for anybody besides myself to be invested.

What did you think of "Kill Team". But yeah 4 factions would be nice. make it a little more variety.

 thekingofkings wrote:
What did you think of "Kill Team". But yeah 4 factions would be nice. make it a little more variety.

We never tried it. I suggested either Kill Team or Necromunda but our host bought Gloomhaven and that scratched our group's tactical itch. I suspect that the group would also vote down this game but one never knows.