Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 oomiestompa wrote:

 alextroy wrote:


And FYI, the Retailer Starter Package is $630 for 18 Command Boxes. That's $35 a Command Box, which is half the $70 Command Starter Sets cost.

The store will still be selling it at $70. That's how they get their cut.

That's what I'd expect. $70 is the retail cost and your local store will probably charge you whatever discount or markup from retail they do for everything else.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The store will still be selling it at $70 for the first few months. Then at 15% off. Then at 30% off at every sale period. Then at 30% clearance sale. Then at the more realistic 50% off clearance sale. Then at the market price of 80% off when they actually want to get rid of it.

Aye, but what you're missing is the timescale. Clearly your proposing a very short timescale, whilst those interested in the game are expecting a much much longer timescale. With hopes that some of those 80% drops will be sparked by future replacement model sculpts of existing ones on a model line and game that has maintained itself for years to decades.


Onto more positive viewpoints they've now unlocked 3 more scenarios for the rulebook and put up and update which includes links to the concept stat cards https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/privateerpress/warcaster-neo-mechanika/posts/2776808

They've added some new goals too including a digital art concept book and 5 new weapons for light warjacks at $400K. Considering they are currently on $260K they've got a chance for that and I hope they make it. Things like 5 additional weapons is a big addition to those units and increases their diversity a lot. It's clearly something that is intended to happen within the games design.

Looking over the alpha stat cards that were released. Defintly going to go with AC. I love the idea of the marauder being a cheap man-jack and the terrain shenanigans sound fun.

Pity the jacks will all be metal. These models look more balanced than WMH warjacks, but I still know I'm going to have to pin something somewhere.

I did not specify a time scale, no, but most of these kinds of KS releases tend to hit affordability in about two years and rock bottom about 4 years out. For customers chasing the dragon, that’s practically an eternity—for a Kickstarter campaign, a wait of years is meaningless.

In this case a wait of years would be a disaster. They're expecting to get this stuff out in 4 months.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Pity the jacks will all be metal. These models look more balanced than WMH warjacks, but I still know I'm going to have to pin something somewhere.

I still sort of find the metal choice strange on the jacks, vs resin, since there's a degree of customization with hot-swapped weapons (I think?) Screams magnetization, while metal definitely doesn't to me.

I'm a kickstarter fanatic and a big fan of both PP and Infinity, but charging retail for this kickstarter is dumb. When other companies charge retail for their kickstarters like CMON at least they throw in tons of value (exclusives, tons of minis, etc.).

Here they are giving away desktop wallpapers?

Unless they start making a compelling reason to "preorder" now at retail pricing, I'll support this game when it goes to retail for cheaper on stores like MM.

At the same time with only a few months from KS to retail chances are PP doesn't want to flood their own market to the point where retail has no chance at picking up customers because the KS was so heavily discounted.

In the end the bonus to backing now as opposed to in several months time at retail; is that backing now enables PP to produce more. Ergo things like alternate sculpts and additional weapons.

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Pity the jacks will all be metal. These models look more balanced than WMH warjacks, but I still know I'm going to have to pin something somewhere.

I still sort of find the metal choice strange on the jacks, vs resin, since there's a degree of customization with hot-swapped weapons (I think?) Screams magnetization, while metal definitely doesn't to me.

Yeah this might actually be a deal-breaker for me . They are going to add 5 new weapon options for the light jacks... meaning you'll have 10 options, right, all or many of which could be duplicated? There's no way you're going to want to build new jacks for all those options. Particularly because they are currently in one pose (although that will hopefully become two if they hit the stretch goal). That would be so many duplicate models if you want options!

So, you almost have to magnetize, or make some sort of peg system. And yet they didn't make pre-made magnet holes in the Marcher faction, which has already had molds made for it. And they don't plan on doing it for any of the others. Honestly, that lack of thought for the player base who is going to try to jury-rig a solution to this, for every jack, by every player... it just boggles my mind, and really has me doubting my commitment to such an effort, even though I love the rules shown so far. Modeling is a big aspect of the hobby, and you can't be that oblivious to what you'll be basically requiring every player to do...........

The only explanations I can think of are that they either don't want to make this an option to try to sell more of the same jacks, or that they didn't think of it ahead of time (which would be understandable). If they responded and corrected the mistake, this would be fine, but they don't show any sign of doing that from what I can see. I know time is short - but this will be a huge issue for every single player who buys into this game, and they've got to get it right. So yeah, could be a deal-breaker, imo... not just for me, but for the life / health of the game picking up enough players to be viable.

I did ask about magnets and they did mention in the comments that it was something they were thinking of in relation to the new weapons - though more in the sense of "leaving space to drill slots to fit them" rather than; say, AT's approach of leaving specific magnet sized gaps in the sculpt.

Metal core body is fine for magnets, its the weapon options that really need to be resin to make them lighter

But if anything, they've said they're doing the opposite - resin core body for the heavy jacks, and metal weapons. This matches what they've done with their warmachine releases, too.

With all those weapon options, not designing in the magnet holes, or some sort of peg (with many models still being sculpted, and the vast majority having no molds yet) is just untenable, imo. That would be sooooooooo much customization required by every single player, and working with metal to boot!

I just saw a preview of the cards.The abilities look a bit complex , kind of heavy like warmachine. Does anyone have any feedback on this?

Actually on one faction's is a bit crunchy, the rest are very straightforward, now that I have had a closer look.

Does anyone know what color the Marcher Worlds faction cards are? I think they are the tan ones...

The Cypher cards release so far are not faction specific. Those may come later. You just build a rack cypher deck with the following rules:
* Minumum 12, max 15 cards
* 3 of each type of Cypher
* Only one of each specific card allowed

So, theoretically, with the rules released and us knowing what's on the cards we could start playing this game with proxies right now if we wanted to.

I've already made a bunch of paper proxies that I've been sharing around the net, should be easy to find.

From the comments:

Gary Hall
2 hours ago
Do I have to have buy multiple copies of a warkack and customize each with which load out I want for a particular list?

---

Privateer Press - Creator
2 hours ago
When you make a list, that Warjack needs to have those weapons attached to it for the whole game. So, if you're gluing the weapons to the Warjack, then yes. However, we recommend magnetizing the weapons and connection points on the Warjack, so you can swap weapons whenever you want!

This is maddening to me. At least someone at PP recognizes how crazy it would be to try to build all different jacks, and yet the suggested solution is for every customer to carefully drill matched position magnet holes in the metal warjack bodies, and in each weapon, and make it all swappable themselves?

Without premade holes, only a tiny fraction of players will do this, and the alternative is bluetac or gluing. It really is a deal breaker...

Does anyone have the ear of a decision maker at PP to bring this up? They need to address it, and with metal they can actually do it (and need to, as it's so hard for their customers to)...

Could they use the color-coded rings that CMON uses so that players can put a ring whose color represents the chosen weapon option over the bases of their armless jacks?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Could they use the color-coded rings that CMON uses so that players can put a ring whose color represents the chosen weapon option over the bases of their armless jacks?

In friendly play do whatever you like, for tournament play (if it ever comes to exist) it looks like it swapping arms or nothing.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Could they use the color-coded rings that CMON uses so that players can put a ring whose color represents the chosen weapon option over the bases of their armless jacks?

I think Bob was poking fun at how some folks tended not to fully build / etc Warmachine armies... but that's seriously what this is destined for unless they make the weapon system more user friendly...

 RiTides wrote:

Without premade holes, only a tiny fraction of players will do this, and the alternative is bluetac or gluing. It really is a deal breaker...

Does anyone have the ear of a decision maker at PP to bring this up? They need to address it, and with metal they can actually do it (and need to, as it's so hard for their customers to)...

It was confirmed that there's 3mm holes for magnets in the jack sculpts.

Although it may not be all the potential spots due to space. They did sculpt with magnetizing in mind.

 Vertrucio wrote:

 RiTides wrote:

Without premade holes, only a tiny fraction of players will do this, and the alternative is bluetac or gluing. It really is a deal breaker...

Does anyone have the ear of a decision maker at PP to bring this up? They need to address it, and with metal they can actually do it (and need to, as it's so hard for their customers to)...

It was confirmed that there's 3mm holes for magnets in the jack sculpts.

Although it may not be all the potential spots due to space. They did sculpt with magnetizing in mind.

There’s no holes. There’s flat areas to drill holes.

Well, of all the things that could be a problem with miniatures, no holes pre-drilled for magnetizing options is a pretty First-World problem.

I mean, nowadays such things are just a sign of the times, but "Back in my day" gamers just shrugged and did industrious things like that themselves, rather than having it be a black mark against a company's product.

To me, more variety in sculpts are more important, because that's something I can't do.

Fair points, Aegis! I'm feeling a lot less emo about it after seeing the below, too.

Here's a video showing some guys magnetizing a dusk wolf:
https://m.twitch.tv/videos/562853469

The end result is pretty great! I'm much less intimidated by the idea now... so elbow grease it is

Considering that the biggest issue with drilling your own magnet holes is finding a good spot that fits and lining them up, sculpted guides takes care of much of the hassle, even if not perfect.

Oficial PP Warcaster magnetisation vid.


https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=N07vQaABUUM

Seriqolm wrote:
Oficial PP Warcaster magnetisation vid.


https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=N07vQaABUUM

It's not like anyone is going to paint these anyway but it's insane to magnetize metal. I love and in many cases prefer metal models and with proper assembly, prep, and care they hold up just fine. However adding removable parts into the equation is crazy and expecting people that are used to working with plastic to do any of this in 2020 is baffling.

Anybody who learns anything has to start somewhere. The only reason any of us "old guys" know anything even a little out of the norm is because of the first model where we had to do it.

I think he's referring to paint chipping - I'll be brushing on a heavy gloss coat followed by a less glossy spray sealant. It will take a lot to avoid metal-on-metal chipping, but hopefully that will do the trick.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Anybody who learns anything has to start somewhere. The only reason any of us "old guys" know anything even a little out of the norm is because of the first model where we had to do it.

We did it due to lack of choice, and lack of options NOT too.

This is 2020. Those other options abound nowadays. Companies must remove as many barriers of entry to their product as possible. Asking customers to drill metal/resin hybrid models could and would put some potential customers off.

They're not asking customers to do that. You don't actually have to build your models with swappable weapons...