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Had a game day at the LGS this weekend and the subject of beginner armies came up. Initially we all agreed on the typical standby of "Imperial Space Marines", but, honestly, I feel like that's not as true as it used to be. Ignoring the supplements, even the base codex has so many options, that I don't feel like it's as "accessible" as it used to be (again looking at this through the eyes of a beginner who is completely new to the hobby). Ignoring personal taste for a moment, if we consider the factors of initial accessibility (how easy is it for a beginner to get into), relatively forgiving play style that can support complex tactics but functions perfectly well without them, I feel like DG is the way to go.

It's easy to get the minis, the codex is small, you don't need a ton of supplements, but if the player decides they still like the DG once the "beginner" stage is over, they can still grow with the army. What does everyone else think? Do you all still recommend Space Marines, or something else?

Ultra marines. They are the aim for new beginners. They may have most options for flavour. But they;re also one of the most straight forward for a simple build if need be.

Primaris are the new "beginner" army. They're efficient, reliable, can be acquired cheaply out of the starter box, easy to paint, not overloaded with redundant choices, flexible once you start adding Chapter rules to them, don't require you to buy a huge amount of models to play the game, and don't have an extensive pool of options for you to accidentally build illegal squads or squads with legacy weapons that haven't been good in three editions with.

I think the issue my group is running into with that answer is that when we hand the Space Marine codex to someone who's never played before, their eyes just kind of gloss over. I don't disagree that in terms of play style and ability to easily get the models, GW is intending Primaris to be the new beginners, and it's also true that they don't have some of the weird baggage the old marines have, but they are, unfortunately, crammed into a book w/said old marines and there's an enormous amount of options (lots of them "trap" options) in that book for a new player to parse. For example, you can't just say "Take a Lt.". Because there's what? 3-4 different "Lt" versions in the main marine book alone? All of them offering the same aura ability but otherwise doing ever so slightly different things on the table - how many Captains are there now? Libbys? ETc etc.

Even if you say "Go through the book and only look at a the "Primaris" options, it's still a lot to wade through and sort out IMO.

That's why we were trying to think of books that were slightly less potentially overwhelming to a new player. Although admittedly it does depend on the player.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Primaris are the new "beginner" army. They're efficient, reliable, can be acquired cheaply out of the starter box, easy to paint, not overloaded with redundant choices, flexible once you start adding Chapter rules to them, don't require you to buy a huge amount of models to play the game, and don't have an extensive pool of options for you to accidentally build illegal squads or squads with legacy weapons that haven't been good in three editions with.

I'll second this. With the current rules, Primaris seem pretty new player friendly/idiot-proof.

I'll second this. With the current rules, Primaris seem pretty new player friendly/idiot-proof.

This is definitely true once you get them to the table.

Tycho wrote:
I think the issue my group is running into with that answer is that when we hand the Space Marine codex to someone who's never played before, their eyes just kind of gloss over. I don't disagree that in terms of play style and ability to easily get the models, GW is intending Primaris to be the new beginners, and it's also true that they don't have some of the weird baggage the old marines have, but they are, unfortunately, crammed into a book w/said old marines and there's an enormous amount of options (lots of them "trap" options) in that book for a new player to parse. For example, you can't just say "Take a Lt.". Because there's what? 3-4 different "Lt" versions in the main marine book alone? All of them offering the same aura ability but otherwise doing ever so slightly different things on the table - how many Captains are there now? Libbys? ETc etc.

Even if you say "Go through the book and only look at a the "Primaris" options, it's still a lot to wade through and sort out IMO.

That's why we were trying to think of books that were slightly less potentially overwhelming to a new player. Although admittedly it does depend on the player.

Any new player's eyes are going to glaze over if you just hand them any Codex and say "go"; the game is loaded with counterintuitive redundant options and bloat whatever army you pick. Try standing over their shoulder and walking them through what the Primaris units actually are.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Any new player's eyes are going to glaze over if you just hand them any Codex and say "go"; the game is loaded with counterintuitive redundant options and bloat whatever army you pick. Try standing over their shoulder and walking them through what the Primaris units actually are.

As if the game wasn't always difficult for new players to fully grasp.

This said we do need a better official source for all of our rules in one place. Even a subscription model would be better than having to buy one or two new books each year to play a single army.

Any new player's eyes are going to glaze over if you just hand them any Codex and say "go"; the game is loaded with counterintuitive redundant options and bloat whatever army you pick. Try standing over their shoulder and walking them through what the Primaris units actually are.

Oh of course we do that. We've just been finding it easier and easier to get them "in" with some of the smaller books. I was just wondering if everyone else is seeing that, or if it was still largely "Play Marines". Sounds like most folks are still moving in the Primaris direction.

the best new army is necrons they are the best army in the game for beginners very easy to paint lazily. Tyranids Also easy to paint
Marines are awful to paint well and it's very sad gw only ever releases primaris marine models now.

The other way to get new players into the game is to have them jump into a game using models that you already own. This might involve splitting your army up or asking an opponent to bring an appropriate list for a good new player experience.

Then once they know the system a bit they can start to look into factions and sub-factions and build up a reading list from there.

Tycho wrote:

Any new player's eyes are going to glaze over if you just hand them any Codex and say "go"; the game is loaded with counterintuitive redundant options and bloat whatever army you pick. Try standing over their shoulder and walking them through what the Primaris units actually are.

Oh of course we do that. We've just been finding it easier and easier to get them "in" with some of the smaller books. I was just wondering if everyone else is seeing that, or if it was still largely "Play Marines". Sounds like most folks are still moving in the Primaris direction.

There are advantages to Marines independent of the size of the book (prevalence of cheaper starter sets, small number of models you tend to use consistent techniques on rather than needing to work out different textures, that kind of thing), and while the Space Marine book may be big and have a lot of rules the number of rules you need to start playing them isn't actually that significant. I find smaller books tend to run on more complicated army-wide rules (how SIA impacts your force for Deathwatch, worrying about having to resolve random damage rolls in order to deal with Disgustingly Resilient for Death Guard, needing to have an elaborate understanding of exactly how to best take advantage of the melee rules to not get eaten alive as Harlequins, needing to figure out how to use all your psykers for Thousand Sons, that kind of thing).

Yeah, I can't think of an army that hits the notes for "starting army" better than Space Marines, even with the huge amount of new stuff they have. Actually, the amount of stuff they have access to as literally optional extras means that they're ripe for new players looking to figure out what they want to play too!

GW: "Hey, here's some Primaris Marines, a Lieutenant, and some Aggressors. Congrats, you got the start of a pretty good army there!"

New Player: "Oh wow, this is so much fun! But I really like getting in close and shooting."

GW: "Oh that's easy, devote your Marines to the Ultra Marines, pick up one of their special characters, and enjoy!"

New Player: "So cool! You know? I'm enjoying getting close to them, but I think I want to hit even harder in close combat!"

GW: "Fantastic. You can either get this Ultramarine special character Chaplain, or get Psychic Awakening and a regular Chaplain!"

Death Guard are a possible option. They are cheap to buy, forgiving to paint, and quite straightforward in play style.

 harlokin wrote:
Death Guard are a possible option. They are cheap to buy, forgiving to paint, and quite straightforward in play style.

Agreed on all points. They also come in the big starter box, the smaller starters and have quite a lot of ETB sets (rivalled only by Marines).

With Death Guard you can hardly go wrong at the beginning with basic Plaguemarines and Poxwalkers. Any character model adds some perk of its own, so you can slowly add new layers to your gameplay. And there are multiple ways to go for a bigger collection, with easy options when in comes to spreading out to other armies.

I think steering a new player away from anything First Born and having them stick with Primaris is probably the best beginner army. They are probably still one of the cheapest armies since they have a bunch of box sets in print. Their models are much easier to build since they have almost no options on the sprue to worry about. Even just playing Codex: Space Marine only they do remarkably well. I play my largely Phobos/Vanguard Primaris army out of the codex only and they do just fine and level of play I do. Much better than my Black Legion and Genestealer Cult armies anyways.

Death Guard is an interesting answer as well. A lot of my points apply with them as well. In my gaming group the only person to not have a full 40k army is going the route of starting a Death Guard army. I am curious to see how well this goes for him.

Well, it has always been Marines and this has not changed.
I'd go rule-based for Ultramarines but paint the army in your favorite colours.

in fact I'd argue Marines, primaris partiuclarly, is an even better answer, with the mono kit infantry, as well as the beefy stats for primaris units, building a unit is dead simple with minimal room for confusion.

as it is, buy dark imperium and you've got just over 750 points worth of stuff, it'd be dead easy to expand that list to 1000 points even snag a ETB redemptor dread. and you're practially there

Primaris Marines are simple, easy to get hold of and forgiving on the table but.... the marine faction now has a huge amount of options (model and rule wise), that make it a complex and expensive army to fully get into. GW could ideally put out a small primaris marine codex, meant for beginners with just primaris units and some basic relics/warlord traits/strats etc...

Other than that deathguard are a good shout with a small but fully plastic and easy to get hold of model line added to easy to grasp durable tactics on the table.

Perhaps Necrons, mostly plastic, easy to paint, simple enough to play.

i guess it depends, answer is different for people that know how to paint and build allready.

F.e. Absolute starter armies that are simple to paint / forgiving are DG and SM, if somone is a decent painter allready you can add TS and CSM to that. ( i regard most of the difficulty for CSM and TG in their baroquesque armor which can put starters to some misery if they never had a brush in hand.)

Orkz are also an decent starter with some of the better kits. gameplay wise though they can be a bit on the iffy side, neededing knowledge about tripointing f.e.

I guess knights technically would fit the bill, if their biger ones wouldn't be so darn expensive making an commitment therefore is significantly higher then other armies. (otoh, you get a big mini, which can ease up on the painting if you hate small detail and still look decent.)
Gameplay wise i am unsure about full knight armies.

Weirdly I made a White Scar army for a friend's first game.

"Can Advance & Charge" is perhaps one of the easiest special rules to remember.

So going back to the glossing over thing.

I can't speak for other areas, but every workshop store I have ever been to in the north west does the following.

1. Intro game on the demo table for new players to see if it can gauge interest.

2. If it does invite them to a beginners session. (they have an adults one and a children's one, adults often get invited to the start of a vets night).

3. During this they teach them how to write a 500-1000 pt list and some basics of painting with demo models they have.

4. If interest is still there they then sell the codex's gauge what army they'd like etc etc.

Obviously sales comes into this and some are better at it than others but the general practice is there and it works well from what I've witnessed to get people into the hobby.

 WisdomLS wrote:
Primaris Marines are simple, easy to get hold of and forgiving on the table but.... the marine faction now has a huge amount of options (model and rule wise), that make it a complex and expensive army to fully get into. GW could ideally put out a small primaris marine codex, meant for beginners with just primaris units and some basic relics/warlord traits/strats etc...

they do that in both shadowspear and dark Imperium. honestly people speak about people who get into wargaming as if new players are imbecilles. maybe we should stop assuming that the people who get into 40k are morons?

Tycho wrote:
I think the issue my group is running into with that answer is that when we hand the Space Marine codex to someone who's never played before, their eyes just kind of gloss over.

I think the best solution to this is actually to hand them a Primaris Mini-Codex from Dark Imperium. Nice and simple.

Primaris, Necrons and Death Guard are the most friendly to new players.

my friend started an IH army with 2 dark empires, 2 ETB primaris dreads and 6 ETB reavers complemented by parts from the eliminator box, to make 9 eliminators. The army was not totaly bad, then was great with the new codex, and now it is still probably good. And because they are just black, he can play them as any chapter. Just needs to buy the book for it.

Tycho wrote:
Had a game day at the LGS this weekend and the subject of beginner armies came up. Initially we all agreed on the typical standby of "Imperial Space Marines", but, honestly, I feel like that's not as true as it used to be. Ignoring the supplements, even the base codex has so many options, that I don't feel like it's as "accessible" as it used to be (again looking at this through the eyes of a beginner who is completely new to the hobby). Ignoring personal taste for a moment,

Over the ten years I have played WH40k I have literally introduced dozens of players into the hobby, and have collected quite some experience on this topic. Across the people who stayed in the hobby(that's our goal, right?), there are a few constants. The most important one by far: they started with an army they like. The others are that you protect the new players from heavily investing into junk units and that you help them to eventually start winning games. I realize this kind of contradicts the first point, but make sure they don't pick one of the mini-factions. Harlequins, Knights, Death Watch or Inquisition are not something a player should pick as their first army, because they are very limited in what you can do and there is nowhere to grow. Same is true for all the FW armies, a new player should not start out with the mess that is FW rules.

There is a good friend of mine, who started at the same time as me. He really liked space marines, but got lots of flakk from veterans for picking the poster boys. Instead he started playing imperial guard, and was pretty unhappy with them, as his unusually aggressive play style around charging guardsmen, demolishers and helhounds caused him to lose lots of games. Later he switchted to necrons, identifying them as the next best thing to space marines, but 4th edition necrons weren't exactly a great army. In a last effort to find something worth playing that is not space marines, he then picked up tyranid big bugs in a time where GK force weapons, JotWW and other instant dead things were all over the place. Needless to say, he doesn't play anymore, and didn't even bother to give 8th a shot despite still owning most of his models and many others returning to the game.
I've also had another friend that created a CF army and grew them with the units that were suggested by our local store manager. They redshirt just sold him all the stuff sitting on the shelves, which obviously didn't make for a functioning army. He left the game after a long string of losses.
Similar things happen when players just start with what they deem is the most powerful faction, they dump a lot of money on them, they don't like the feel of the army or the meta shifts, and then leave the game.

Most people will rather cut their losses and leave the game rather than start a second army.

So make sure to sit down with the new players and walk them through the factions. If they want to go marines, direct them to a chapter whose fluff, units and/or play style they can identify with. The old school way to do it is flipping through the BRB, but recently GW has launched this site to help with that: https://warhammer40000.com/setting/explore-the-factions/
Make sure that the faction is what they are expecting, for example if they want to play heavy hard to kill tanks, orks is not the faction they are looking for.

If someone likes a faction they will make them work.

You can build a working starter army from any faction - put the best two HQs in a battalion with three decent troop choices and add some big tank or a monster and some elite or fast attack. Make sure to pick competitive options, so they have decent shot at winning despite having little experience and to prevent forcing them to shelf their investment as soon as they start understanding the game. Listen to their wishes when building the army, but try to keep LoW and trash tier units out.
Start collecting boxes should only be bought if they actually contain decent units, which is not true for all armies.

Also people come from different backgrounds, not everyone needs be handled with kid's gloves. If someone who is a seasoned warmachine player, a MtG veteran, a DM for two D&D groups and has the entire FFX skill board memorized wants to start TS as his first army, let them. And yes that happened

if we consider the factors of initial accessibility (how easy is it for a beginner to get into), relatively forgiving play style that can support complex tactics but functions perfectly well without them, I feel like DG is the way to go.
It's easy to get the minis, the codex is small, you don't need a ton of supplements, but if the player decides they still like the DG once the "beginner" stage is over, they can still grow with the army. What does everyone else think? Do you all still recommend Space Marines, or something else?

DG in general are a great starter army for people who have general idea of synergy and tactics, but definitely not for people which lack such thinking, just want to toss dice with their friends or who are entirely new to the "nerdsphere" (cue: kids, partners, parents). If you know someone who is suffering from analysis paralysis in other games, DG is definitely the wrong army for them.
The army is not as forgiving as it seems, the low movement speed and range makes it easy to lose games by putting units in the wrong place, plus they need maximize synergies and combos to kill stuff, especially vehicles.
Something that also shouldn't be discounted is that many people think DG are utterly disgusting - the idea of bloated sickness-ridden pus-leaking super-soldiers with their entrails hanging out is not exactly appealing. I have gotten a "why the hell would you play or even paint that?!" when explaining what those models on the shelf are more than once.
If you give someone an army they genuinely think is disgusting, I doubt they'll be having a lot of fun. It doesn't really save any money if you have to buy a second army you don't hate later.

TL;DR: Find out what faction the person likes, help them build their first army and win their first games. Protect them from trapping themselves with a collection of models that doesn't work or they don't like.

Definately (Primaris) Space Marines. It’s why they’re in the starter set, after all.

I would say Ultramarines as well. They're nice and balanced, while not being super complicated.

Having only just started in the hobby recently and having never played a war game before I have found the Astra Militarum to be very easy to pick up and play with. I think this is mostly down to how close they are to conventional militaries. It is immediately clear what is what on the battle field without having to parse it through lore, so when you are learning the rules a mortar is a mortar, artillery is artillery, etc you know what each rule is referencing without having to look it up. This has made learning the rules for me far quicker which means I could then go on and easily apply them to more esoteric armies.