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 Dulahan wrote:
I almost feel like the Deathwatch and Harlequins thing is turning into the same excuse they use for the Inquisition. "These groups are more suited to a skirmish game than as full armies."

Agreed thats a stupid excuse - Marine Chapters take decades to recover losses after any major campaign so the same should apply.

I guess i should explain my disapointment a bit but it has already been said more or less. Don't hype something up to death then flop. The angels of death trailer was amazing and is filling a void in 40k media that has been lacking. Just watched the Astartes part 5 and I honestly can't decide which one is better, which is a good thing! Otherwise its the drip drop that doesn't match the hype at all.

Mostly just want to hear news on the redone Forge World books, so maybe its my own fault for setting that bar too high.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sheesh - people are dying by the thousand and peopel are actually getting upset about this - WTF is wrong with people.

"A fallacy of relative privation will not avail you!" - Gandalf the Grey.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Also, to be clear, I'm not blaming the presenters for any of this - they're doing the best with the grox-dung burger they've been served.

Twitch chat should cut them some slack, and the vehemence should be aimed at GW via other channels.

Sheesh - people are dying by the thousand and peopel are actually getting upset about this - WTF is wrong with people.

There was never a moment in the 40 year history of 40K where that wasn't true.

Sure, nobody compares disappointment about miniature releases to tragedies such as Corona this year ..
... or Cyclone Idai in 2019 ..
... or the Vulcanon in Guatemala in 2018 ...
... or any other past natural disasters, wars, school shootings, ebola or other epidemics.. Rwanda Genocide, Fukushima, Tschernobyl, whathaveyou ...

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Dulahan wrote:
I almost feel like the Deathwatch and Harlequins thing is turning into the same excuse they use for the Inquisition. "These groups are more suited to a skirmish game than as full armies."

Agreed thats a stupid excuse - Marine Chapters take decades to recover losses after any major campaign so the same should apply.

Given that deathwatch and grey knights are subfactions of the inquisition, it’s kind of absurd to say bringing an inquisitor with them to battle is out of place.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sheesh - people are dying by the thousand and peopel are actually getting upset about this - WTF is wrong with people.

"A fallacy of relative privation will not avail you!" - Gandalf the Grey.

Being dispaointed is one thing but the level of outrage is just mind blowing.

or Cyclone Idai in 2019 ..
... or the Vulcanon in Guatemala in 2018 ...
... or any other past natural disasters, wars, school shootings, ebola or other epidemics.. Rwanda Genocide, Fukushima, Tschernobyl, whathaveyou ...

How many of them had a impact on the entire World or more importantly in this case GW directly?

 Dulahan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Tastyfish wrote:
But they weren't going to be split at the beginning

If that were the case they would have shown a lot more last week.

Exactly. And even if they somehow (And they did - the closing was already known then!) - they could've announced in advance. Easily. At some point this week.

As someone else said - a lot of people were looking forward to this. A lot. No wonder we're disappointed! We're stuck at home too. We're not getting to play, and seeing cool new stuff is at least something hobby related to get excited about. We were expecting to know. And knowing things is a big deal, and a big morale booster. I know I was looking forward to this all week because last week's 40k was so sparse. I've been a bit burned out on 40k too, and want something cool to reignite my interest. Sadly, what we've gotten this year so far hasn't been it (Sadly, cool as Gaz is - and he absolutely is! None of my main group plays Orks, so I won't see him on the field. And I get more excited about new stuff for my opponents than for my own armies even! My own armies means more work for me. Opponents mean new cool stuff to play against!) So this is just sucking even more drive out of me.

Just as well there's probably going to be a big 40K push in two weeks time after easter then!

I also think that you should probably include the TV shows as part of the "40K release" to a degree as well, when trying to balance the systems getting news. Plus announcing three TV shows is a fairly big deal normally, I'm surprised myself that I'm just not as excited by them as new models for factions I don't play.

Today's preview was a little disappointing, but I can certainly understand why things have been split up and spread out. I'm really curious to see if they're going to carry on with the PA book release schedule via ebooks or start opening up pre-orders. UK Gov (and others) covering furloughed staff's wages definitely gives them a little more flexibility, but they have a lot of stuff still on the go with these new animation projects, so there's definitely going to be some bean counters getting a little nervous of having the stores and factories closed for another two months.

 Dulahan wrote:
I almost feel like the Deathwatch and Harlequins thing is turning into the same excuse they use for the Inquisition. "These groups are more suited to a skirmish game than as full armies."

Yep, they are saying that in all but the exact words for Inquisition for years, and then you know, don't give them rules for their skirmish game.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sheesh - people are dying by the thousand and peopel are actually getting upset about this - WTF is wrong with people.

"A fallacy of relative privation will not avail you!" - Gandalf the Grey.

Being dispaointed is one thing but the level of outrage is just mind blowing.

You don't like that people don't like the previews? Why not just say that instead of using other's death's to hide your true intent.

 Overread wrote:
Yeah the situation keeps changing for GW and they are reacting to it as best they can. It doesn't help that people are being somewhat impatient/greedy even though they know that GW hasn't got the factories running and can't deliver anything.

No-one - well, no-one I've seen, anyway - is expecting these previews to be for things available immediate. It is very rare that they run one of these events and anything previewed is available in the next couple of weeks, or even the next month.

The problem, as keeps getting pointed out, is the communication. The Adepticon preview was described as "the biggest Warhammer preview ever" - and before a certain someone tries to claim this is the verbiage they always use, I direct you to the LVO seminar as proof they don't. They told us they'd be presenting that material across two online events, which was fine - but how the material was split meant that, for a lot of players, what was saw last week was... underwhelming, at best. They put out an article yesterday about how to watch this preview, which was an opportunity to warn people that they were now splitting the content they had across more events. They ran through today's event, and only right at the end did they say that what had been shown over 3 hours of streams thus far was half the material from Adepticon, and that (after taking Easter off, which is fair enough) there would be two more streams to complete this seminar.

The WHC team have done a great job over the last few years in helping to rebuild some degree of trust in GW by the community. And I get that the situation is changing fairly rapidly, which means plans may change.

But the WHC team (and anyone else at head office involved in organising this) have screwed the pooch on this one.

Darsath wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sheesh - people are dying by the thousand and peopel are actually getting upset about this - WTF is wrong with people.

"A fallacy of relative privation will not avail you!" - Gandalf the Grey.

Being dispaointed is one thing but the level of outrage is just mind blowing.

You don't like that people don't like the previews? Why not just say that instead of using other's death's to hide your true intent.

No I am just saddened by how upset people are getting about this

And this kind of toxic response sums up waht is wrong with people - good luck screaming at the void - out of this thread so you can carry on

Not to mention Stern herself fits the bill of pariah, an outcast.

As to people moaning, nerds are always like this. Everything is always the last affront, every update is the worst thing to ever happen to the world.

GW are doing a decent job in a really tough situation and they have so many gaming systems to cover now, ofc it's not all gonna be about you/your games/your army.

Hoping to see some shiny boys in the next update though.

The good news is my wallet is currently still safe. My wife is on the fence about wanting the new Lumineth Elves, and that’s about it. Nothing has tickled my fancy yet. That’ll be out the window if a Daemon Primarch comes kicking down the reveal-door though.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Darsath wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sheesh - people are dying by the thousand and peopel are actually getting upset about this - WTF is wrong with people.

"A fallacy of relative privation will not avail you!" - Gandalf the Grey.

Being dispaointed is one thing but the level of outrage is just mind blowing.

You don't like that people don't like the previews? Why not just say that instead of using other's death's to hide your true intent.

No I am just saddened by how upset people are getting about this

And this kind of toxic response sums up waht is wrong with people - good luck screaming at the void - out of this thread so you can carry on

I didn't give a toxic response. It's you who is trying to start fights. People are allowed to have a different opinion from you. It's not some big crime.

 Tastyfish wrote:

 Dulahan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Tastyfish wrote:
But they weren't going to be split at the beginning

If that were the case they would have shown a lot more last week.

Exactly. And even if they somehow (And they did - the closing was already known then!) - they could've announced in advance. Easily. At some point this week.

As someone else said - a lot of people were looking forward to this. A lot. No wonder we're disappointed! We're stuck at home too. We're not getting to play, and seeing cool new stuff is at least something hobby related to get excited about. We were expecting to know. And knowing things is a big deal, and a big morale booster. I know I was looking forward to this all week because last week's 40k was so sparse. I've been a bit burned out on 40k too, and want something cool to reignite my interest. Sadly, what we've gotten this year so far hasn't been it (Sadly, cool as Gaz is - and he absolutely is! None of my main group plays Orks, so I won't see him on the field. And I get more excited about new stuff for my opponents than for my own armies even! My own armies means more work for me. Opponents mean new cool stuff to play against!) So this is just sucking even more drive out of me.

Just as well there's probably going to be a big 40K push in two weeks time after easter then!

I also think that you should probably include the TV shows as part of the "40K release" to a degree as well, when trying to balance the systems getting news. Plus announcing three TV shows is a fairly big deal normally, I'm surprised myself that I'm just not as excited by them as new models for factions I don't play.

Today's preview was a little disappointing, but I can certainly understand why things have been split up and spread out. I'm really curious to see if they're going to carry on with the PA book release schedule via ebooks or start opening up pre-orders. UK Gov (and others) covering furloughed staff's wages definitely gives them a little more flexibility, but they have a lot of stuff still on the go with these new animation projects, so there's definitely going to be some bean counters getting a little nervous of having the stores and factories closed for another two months.

The reason three tv shows being announced isn’t a huge deal is the same reason that all the shovelware, mostly mobile, videogames being released over the last decade was no big deal. Why a 60 goddamn book heresy series stopped being a big deal ages ago. Why so many people are burned out over the sweeping setting changes of recent times.

40k fiction and tie in products go for quantity over quality, you can’t really separate the chaff from the grain until well after the fact, certainly not at the preview stage. What’s there to be hyped over?

Stuff you can use for your hobby or even see others use for their hobby engagement is infinitely more interesting to know about in advance.

Such a great reveal ! We've had news about several upcoming supplements, Fabius Bile, the first Primarch, Stern and her Eldar friend, actual footages and trailer from TWO Warhammer TV SHOWS (!!) who would have thought that after all these years ?
And that's just the game I play: Blood Bowl, several AoS news and LoTR (I wished it was played more). And I'm forgetting some.
And it's not even over !
People who aren't satisfied are probably never satisfied in their lives. What were who expecting ? The death of the God-Emperor ?
I'm super happy just for having seen all of that today ! Thanks GW !

 Mr Morden wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sheesh - people are dying by the thousand and peopel are actually getting upset about this - WTF is wrong with people.

"A fallacy of relative privation will not avail you!" - Gandalf the Grey.

Being dispaointed is one thing but the level of outrage is just mind blowing.

I don't think I would describe anything I have seen in this thread as outrage. People are just bummed out, a lot of them I'm sure have been stuck at home all day for weeks with little to do and a ton of negative news to keep their minds occupied, and were probably looking forward to this quite a bit. I don't feel any personal stakes in these previews, because I have plenty of hobby stuff to work on (and to be fair all the stuff I want from GW other than more Warcry stuff is a long shot at best) and as I work in Healthcare I have been working quite a bit, but to a lot of people this was something they had been looking forward to all week and was something they were genuinely excited about. People all over the world are experiencing hardship in one form or another, and having something, even as relatively minor as a hobby, to look forward to can do a lot of good for them.

 godardc wrote:

People who aren't satisfied are probably never satisfied in their lives. What were who expecting ? The death of the God-Emperor ?

Cut the flamebaiting idiocy. You know exactly why Harlequin and Deathwatch players are livid right now.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Well, some of it pre-dates Corona by quite a lot.

Harlequins got left out of Vigilus too, and were struggling even back in the day when Endless Poxwalkers, Maelific Lords and Alpha Legion Cultist Rush was the speartip of competitive 40K.

And then you see pampered factions like Chaos get a full Vigilus book on their own, an entire 2.0 Codex, a double-treatment for Psychic Awakening, new models by the bucket every other week, all the while people playing Harlequins wait patiently on the promise / assumption that they would get ... something ... in PA this time.

At the very least, they could've just said last August that PA wouldn't include Deathwatch and Harlequins, but maybe we'll squeeze something into a White Dwarf? Why the deception for month upon months? Where's the "ideal-scenario-upside" to that? I see no way this could ever have not disappointed people, even if Corona never happened.

If you listen to the Voxcast with David Waugh, it's clear that a lot changed from the original intent of PA over the course of it's development. I almost get the vibe that there was going to be a Harlequin/Deathwatch book but scheduling of 9th ed (and potential Brexit outcomes, and now Corona virus) meant they couldn't fit an extra book in - didn't they say as much at the Preview, that they were going to cover every army in this but have now switched some armies to a WD release?

For Deathwatch it makes sense - why update them in a book just before 9th ed, and then release a ton of new marine stuff that they can't use. Do them instead as one of the first ones up in the new storyline perhaps?

 Tastyfish wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Well, some of it pre-dates Corona by quite a lot.

Harlequins got left out of Vigilus too, and were struggling even back in the day when Endless Poxwalkers, Maelific Lords and Alpha Legion Cultist Rush was the speartip of competitive 40K.

And then you see pampered factions like Chaos get a full Vigilus book on their own, an entire 2.0 Codex, a double-treatment for Psychic Awakening, new models by the bucket every other week, all the while people playing Harlequins wait patiently on the promise / assumption that they would get ... something ... in PA this time.

At the very least, they could've just said last August that PA wouldn't include Deathwatch and Harlequins, but maybe we'll squeeze something into a White Dwarf? Why the deception for month upon months? Where's the "ideal-scenario-upside" to that? I see no way this could ever have not disappointed people, even if Corona never happened.

If you listen to the Voxcast with David Waugh, it's clear that a lot changed from the original intent of PA over the course of it's development. I almost get the vibe that there was going to be a Harlequin/Deathwatch book but scheduling of 9th ed (and potential Brexit outcomes, and now Corona virus) meant they couldn't fit an extra book in - didn't they say as much at the Preview, that they were going to cover every army in this but have now switched some armies to a WD release?

For Deathwatch it makes sense - why update them in a book just before 9th ed, and then release a ton of new marine stuff that they can't use. Do them instead as one of the first ones up in the new storyline perhaps?

The most baffling thing about all this 9th posting is the completely detached from reality idea 9th would invalidate any publications other than the old core book.

 Sabotage! wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sheesh - people are dying by the thousand and peopel are actually getting upset about this - WTF is wrong with people.

"A fallacy of relative privation will not avail you!" - Gandalf the Grey.

Being dispaointed is one thing but the level of outrage is just mind blowing.

I don't think I would describe anything I have seen in this thread as outrage. People are just bummed out, a lot of them I'm sure have been stuck at home all day for weeks with little to do and a ton of negative news to keep their minds occupied, and were probably looking forward to this quite a bit. I don't feel any personal stakes in these previews, because I have plenty of hobby stuff to work on (and to be fair all the stuff I want from GW other than more Warcry stuff is a long shot at best) and as I work in Healthcare I have been working quite a bit, but to a lot of people this was something they had been looking forward to all week and was something they were genuinely excited about. People all over the world are experiencing hardship in one form or another, and having something, even as relatively minor as a hobby, to look forward to can do a lot of good for them.

Heck! There's entire GAMES that haven't even had a preview yet. And there were some mentions in articles that all the lines were gonna have something.

For me the even bigger disappointment than 40k is nothing for Titanicus yet, not even something little like talking about the Cerastus Knights! Or something more about the upcoming book.

Not much here for me, but ah well maybe next episode.

I am excited to get a new edition of Daemonifuge, in colour no less, as my old one is on its last legs. Stern's model doesn't quite do it for me though, I think it's her hair.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Well, some of it pre-dates Corona by quite a lot.

Harlequins got left out of Vigilus too, and were struggling even back in the day when Endless Poxwalkers, Maelific Lords and Alpha Legion Cultist Rush was the speartip of competitive 40K.

And then you see pampered factions like Chaos get a full Vigilus book on their own, an entire 2.0 Codex, a double-treatment for Psychic Awakening, new models by the bucket every other week, all the while people playing Harlequins wait patiently on the promise / assumption that they would get ... something ... in PA this time.

At the very least, they could've just said last August that PA wouldn't include Deathwatch and Harlequins, but maybe we'll squeeze something into a White Dwarf? Why the deception for month upon months? Where's the "ideal-scenario-upside" to that? I see no way this could ever have not disappointed people, even if Corona never happened.

Chaos marines got a 2.0 codex the same time as vigilus with nearly identical content. They also had 1 release wave of models.

Then a double dip that wasn't asked for and nobody knows what it entails, purely so they could release a niche character. They're far from pampered, 8th edition is the first time in a long while chaos marines have been shown any real love, whilst still getting extra books published to paper over the cracks of their less than top flight rules.

changemod wrote:
Given that deathwatch and grey knights are subfactions of the inquisition, it’s kind of absurd to say bringing an inquisitor with them to battle is out of place.

Actually, both are equals of the Inquisition, and while they do often cooperate, it's not uncommon for Grand/Watch Master to tell the Inquisitor to get lost (or outright execute them for heresy). Especially seeing both run the kinds of combat missions where regular humans don't tend to last longer than a few seconds.

I am starting to really despise Kelly and Cruddace for their incompetence. How do you take cool, stealth, special forces faction that has more members than good half of the armies with books in the game, faction that 95% of the time operates alone, faction that has access to all Imperial (and a lot of xeno) technology, and decide 'meh, it's at best single squad ally fodder, oh, and let's give them worst access to weapon and wargear options in the game of all marines because FRAK YOU', peeing all over the fluff and feel of the army?

I especially like how there is whole range of new models perfect for DW (the SM vanguard) and DW have zero access to it because FRAK YOU, when even wolfwolfs can take everything in it despite the line being exact opposite of how SW think and fight - and being relegated to WD means no access still with 95% certainty...

changemod wrote:

 Tastyfish wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Well, some of it pre-dates Corona by quite a lot.

Harlequins got left out of Vigilus too, and were struggling even back in the day when Endless Poxwalkers, Maelific Lords and Alpha Legion Cultist Rush was the speartip of competitive 40K.

And then you see pampered factions like Chaos get a full Vigilus book on their own, an entire 2.0 Codex, a double-treatment for Psychic Awakening, new models by the bucket every other week, all the while people playing Harlequins wait patiently on the promise / assumption that they would get ... something ... in PA this time.

At the very least, they could've just said last August that PA wouldn't include Deathwatch and Harlequins, but maybe we'll squeeze something into a White Dwarf? Why the deception for month upon months? Where's the "ideal-scenario-upside" to that? I see no way this could ever have not disappointed people, even if Corona never happened.

If you listen to the Voxcast with David Waugh, it's clear that a lot changed from the original intent of PA over the course of it's development. I almost get the vibe that there was going to be a Harlequin/Deathwatch book but scheduling of 9th ed (and potential Brexit outcomes, and now Corona virus) meant they couldn't fit an extra book in - didn't they say as much at the Preview, that they were going to cover every army in this but have now switched some armies to a WD release?

For Deathwatch it makes sense - why update them in a book just before 9th ed, and then release a ton of new marine stuff that they can't use. Do them instead as one of the first ones up in the new storyline perhaps?

The most baffling thing about all this 9th posting is the completely detached from reality idea 9th would invalidate any publications other than the old core book.

And to use it as an excuse to continue to neglect an army thats now more than year behind its other marine counterparts (Shadowspear was March 2019, and Deathwatch SILL cannot use models from that release).

Something something Stern's robes are still the wrong colour.

Sterling191 wrote:

 godardc wrote:

People who aren't satisfied are probably never satisfied in their lives. What were who expecting ? The death of the God-Emperor ?

Cut the flamebaiting idiocy. You know exactly why Harlequin and Deathwatch players are livid right now.

Because they assume they'll get less stuff, despite no indication of that at this stage, with the added bonus of not having to buy an expensive hard back book?

TLR

OP - if you are going to start this thread, please update the first post so we don’t have to read 9 pages of nonsense.

Thanks!

 Dysartes wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Yeah the situation keeps changing for GW and they are reacting to it as best they can. It doesn't help that people are being somewhat impatient/greedy even though they know that GW hasn't got the factories running and can't deliver anything.

No-one - well, no-one I've seen, anyway - is expecting these previews to be for things available immediate. It is very rare that they run one of these events and anything previewed is available in the next couple of weeks, or even the next month.

The problem, as keeps getting pointed out, is the communication. The Adepticon preview was described as "the biggest Warhammer preview ever" - and before a certain someone tries to claim this is the verbiage they always use, I direct you to the LVO seminar as proof they don't. They told us they'd be presenting that material across two online events, which was fine - but how the material was split meant that, for a lot of players, what was saw last week was... underwhelming, at best. They put out an article yesterday about how to watch this preview, which was an opportunity to warn people that they were now splitting the content they had across more events. They ran through today's event, and only right at the end did they say that what had been shown over 3 hours of streams thus far was half the material from Adepticon, and that (after taking Easter off, which is fair enough) there would be two more streams to complete this seminar.

The WHC team have done a great job over the last few years in helping to rebuild some degree of trust in GW by the community. And I get that the situation is changing fairly rapidly, which means plans may change.

But the WHC team (and anyone else at head office involved in organising this) have screwed the pooch on this one.

It was Friday at around 5pm that the lockdown was extended out to end of May at the earliest. The how to watch article was out around 10-11AM wasn't it - in order to hit all the timezones presumably?
This extra split would have been a last minute decision.

 Irbis wrote:

changemod wrote:
Given that deathwatch and grey knights are subfactions of the inquisition, it’s kind of absurd to say bringing an inquisitor with them to battle is out of place.

Actually, both are equals of the Inquisition, and while they do often cooperate, it's not uncommon for Grand/Watch Master to tell the Inquisitor to get lost (or outright execute them for heresy). Especially seeing both run the kinds of combat missions where regular humans don't tend to last longer than a few seconds.

I’m well aware their recent codexes have taken some retconning steps to separate them from the inquisition’s control, (a particularly dumb move with Grey Knights as no longer being malleus lapdogs makes them even less interesting in the name of making them more “special”) but either way they fall under the same overall operational umbrella.