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There’s a 1.5 hour documentary up on YouTube at the moment. Should be up for around 30 days.
It’s kind of depressing though, so would recommend reading up on the synopsis before jumping in.
Michael Moore presents Planet of the Humans, a documentary that dares to say what no one else will this Earth Day — that we are losing the battle to stop climate change on planet earth because we are following leaders who have taken us down the wrong road — selling out the green movement to wealthy interests and corporate America. This film is the wake-up call to the reality we are afraid to face: that in the midst of a human-caused extinction event, the environmental movement’s answer is to push for techno-fixes and band-aids. It's too little, too late.
Removed from the debate is the only thing that MIGHT save us: getting a grip on our out-of-control human presence and consumption. Why is this not THE issue? Because that would be bad for profits, bad for business. Have we environmentalists fallen for illusions, “green” illusions, that are anything but green, because we’re scared that this is the end—and we’ve pinned all our hopes on biomass, wind turbines, and electric cars?
No amount of batteries are going to save us, warns director Jeff Gibbs (lifelong environmentalist and co-producer of “Fahrenheit 9/11” and “Bowling for Columbine"). This urgent, must-see movie, a full-frontal assault on our sacred cows, is guaranteed to generate anger, debate, and, hopefully, a willingness to see our survival in a new way—before it’s too late.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/25 00:38:45
Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!
I'm sorry, I'm usually a MM fan but right now I'm just so overloaded with bad news about covid I just can't handle more right now so I'm avoiding this.
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..."
Matt Swain wrote: I'm sorry, I'm usually a MM fan but right now I'm just so overloaded with bad news about covid I just can't handle more right now so I'm avoiding this.
These are kind of strange times, and nobody is obligated to watch it. Please take care of yourself over there.
Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!
Elbows wrote: Michael Moore is still around? That's....unfortunate.
Oh dear. Does he have a bad reputation? I'll admit to having thrown this up without much knowledge of his work.
Not really, He is a documentarion with a very liberal bent, so he rubs quite a few people wrong.
I personally dont like him, he is kinda sensationalist with his stuff and performs a lot of Performance Art style shenanigans.
He tends to be very political, and has a knack for taking worthy causes but making them extremely polarizing...
However, I skimmed through the video and honestly this did not strike me as that. It seems to mostly be simply anti-corporate, and does things like focus on Al Gore and Obama being affected by corporations in making environmental decisions, but doesn't focus on politics.
So, I think this can stay open if we can just focus on environmentalism.
I personally think that the enviroment is too far gone, and to have any hope, we are going to have to come up with some sort of Tech that reverses global warming and cleans that air and oceans.
But that is in the realm of Sci-fi.
Its honestly hard to not feel powerless when it comes to this, every time summer comes around i feel the heat earlier and earlier.......and knowing that the most powerful nation in the world is doing nothing.....and i cant change it.....is truly saddening.
I watched more and looked into some critiques of the movie. One criticism is that he's showing extremely out of date (like, by over a decade) solar setups. This kind of thing really undercuts his argument.
I agree we're not there yet on renewables, but we're wayyyyy better at it than 10 years ago, and will hopefully be so much better again in a similar timeframe. I know things are urgent, but you've got to work on solutions, and the world needs energy to function and for people to, well, live
So, it's got some great moments, but also some that are off the mark (imo, of course, and from some reviews of it).
Had a look at some of the criticisms as well, and they certainly sound valid. I think one of the more prevalent arguments (aside from not providing solutions) was that Moore didn’t mention nuclear power. It would seem that editing footage of conversations is a common criticism of Moore’s movies in general.
I think the point Moore makes about the construction materials makes sense. As you mentioned earlier however, that was over a decade ago. Do you know what specific changes were made?
Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!
Movie could be good, could be bad, anywhere in between. But Michael Moore is kind of a jackass. I take most of what he says with a grain of salt bugger than the one you need for most 40k rumors.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
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So I’ve always had this thing of generally agreeing with his position but really, really disliking him and his approach. (TLDR, he’s a dick, even if a well meaning one).
I also take real issue with that synopsis “Michael Moore presents Planet of the Humans, a documentary that dares to say what no one else will this Earth Day — that we are losing the battle to stop climate change on planet earth because we are following leaders who have taken us down the wrong road”
Really? Really?! our political and economic leaders are getting criticised for their lack of commitment to climate change on about a weekly basis in the media I see; Moore is hardly the lone gun daring to speak the truth on this.
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
Michael Moore is someone that I can't truly trust. I'd never even heard of him when a friend took me to see Bowling for Culombine. It was a movie that made me think, so watched a couple more of his documentaries over the next few years.
I felt he brought up some good points, but I had problems with other points. Like others have stated, no matter what he was trying to say, he comes off as a bit of a donkey-cave. Then things started to go downhill when I learned that a lot of what he had in his "documentaries" were scripted fiction. Some of his "eye witnesses" for interviews were paid and reading from scripts. Many of his facts are downright lies. He edits videos to lead you to incorrect conclusions.
Jadenim wrote: So I’ve always had this thing of generally agreeing with his position but really, really disliking him and his approach.
Yes, I am very much in the same boat. He starts with a good premise, but then he always - ALWAYS - picks some questionable ways of trying to prove his point. That means he can be attacked on the latter while the former can be handwaved away.
It's pretty much the precursor to James O'Keefe, albeit maybe a little less abjectly dishonest.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/26 00:31:01
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Jadenim wrote: So I’ve always had this thing of generally agreeing with his position but really, really disliking him and his approach.
Yes, I am very much in the same boat. He starts with a good premise, but then he always - ALWAYS - picks some questionable ways of trying to prove his point. That means he can be attacked on the latter while the former can be handwaved away.
It's pretty much the precursor to James O'Keefe, albeit maybe a little less abjectly dishonest.
I don't know, Moore has a boatload of dishonesty in his documentaries. I'd put them about on the same level.
I wonder about this particular documentary and if it will age well. One underlying current throughout it is that renewables just aren't worth the effort / are just big fossil fuel business in disguise. When we do finally have a majority of energy from renewables, won't this look misguided? It's like looking at early computers and completely missing / discounting where they were headed in the future.
Another review mentioned he also completely ignored nuclear. Not saying it's the answer, but to focus so much on when renewables have downtime and need a backup and not to mention it seems... disingenuous at best.
While there might be something to that, Michael Moore is the very definition of polarizing in his approach, if any person can be described as such
His documentaries are intentionally so, as he's trying to force people to choose a side on an issue. The odd thing, is that in this documentary he's trying to force people to choose Against renewables - and I think that's very shortsighted. See my computers example above! In the 70's, if you evaluated the technology only as it currently was, you might have a similar reaction...
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/04/26 12:50:49
Yep. people demanding that any alternative to fossil fuels must be completely developed and able to 100% replace fossil fuels, for the alternative to even be considered, supported or fossil fuels having any kinds of limits placed on them.
Remember CFC gasses (like Freon)?
Did we wait for a 100% alternative to be developed?
No, we limited it's usage.....and market forces kicked in, and an alternative was quickly developed.
Remember leaded fuel?
Did we wait for a 100% alternative to be developed?
No, we limited it's usage.....and market forces kicked in, and an alternative was quickly developed.
There is a certain group of a certain leaning in certain countries, that keeps presenting arguments like that - whenever it is suggested, that anything they like is limited.
-------------------------------------------------------
"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
Elbows wrote: Michael Moore is still around? That's....unfortunate.
Oh dear. Does he have a bad reputation? I'll admit to having thrown this up without much knowledge of his work.
the right wing in America dislike him as he's got a liberal bent so he;'s seen as a bit polarizing
That's pretty much true. In america if a person is to the left of atilla the hun he's guilty of being polarizing and divisive,.
If a person it extreme far right the left if guilty of polarization dnd divisiveness for disliking him.
That isn't why Moore is disliked, or why he is disliked by both sides. He takes a current social issue and basically profiteers on it, while making arguments and using tactics that range from deceptive to outright dishonest. He edits interviews heavily to the point that the speaker seems to say the opposite of what they were actually saying when recorded, and pays for other interviewees to recite the views he's chosen to push. When called on it, he claims its valid to make the case because the issue is 'so important.' But what it actually does is undermine efforts towards real solutions, and undercuts efforts to make the issue a genuine concern (rather than part of 'fake news').
He chooses sensationalist over authenticity and helps build the circus of 'truth is about how you feel, not facts' that we have to deal with today.
Steelmage99 wrote: Yep. people demanding that any alternative to fossil fuels must be completely developed and able to 100% replace fossil fuels, for the alternative to even be considered, supported or fossil fuels having any kinds of limits placed on them.
This is a logical fallacy argument called "the nirvana fallacy". Basically the nirvana fallacy goes "Unless a solution is absolutely, totally, 100% perfect and free from any flaws or failing in any case, it is totally worthless and must be rejected.
Elbows wrote: Michael Moore is still around? That's....unfortunate.
Oh dear. Does he have a bad reputation? I'll admit to having thrown this up without much knowledge of his work.
the right wing in America dislike him as he's got a liberal bent so he;'s seen as a bit polarizing
That's pretty much true. In america if a person is to the left of atilla the hun he's guilty of being polarizing and divisive,.
If a person it extreme far right the left if guilty of polarization dnd divisiveness for disliking him.
That isn't why Moore is disliked, or why he is disliked by both sides. He takes a current social issue and basically profiteers on it, while making arguments and using tactics that range from deceptive to outright dishonest. He edits interviews heavily to the point that the speaker seems to say the opposite of what they were actually saying when recorded, and pays for other interviewees to recite the views he's chosen to push. When called on it, he claims its valid to make the case because the issue is 'so important.' But what it actually does is undermine efforts towards real solutions, and undercuts efforts to make the issue a genuine concern (rather than part of 'fake news').
He chooses sensationalist over authenticity and helps build the circus of 'truth is about how you feel, not facts' that we have to deal with today.
I remember seeing Bowling for Columbine, and getting to the ending where Moore actively shows himself getting into Chartlon Heston's home for an interview under false pretenses, and basically tries to character assassinate him in his own living room, undercutting the message of the entire movie and made Moore look like a total donkey-cave. There's a way to make those points, and that was not it.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Going from a Vegan Diet to near unrestrained consumption of nothing but McDonalds piles on the pounds, and wrecks your physical health?
Good findings, Sherlock....
Such Documentaries always irk me, because they always seem to start as a conclusion in search of evidence. No matter what they might turn up, they’re so focussed on proving the maker Clever, they’re just distasteful to me.
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Going from a Vegan Diet to near unrestrained consumption of nothing but McDonalds piles on the pounds, and wrecks your physical health?
Good findings, Sherlock....
Such Documentaries always irk me, because they always seem to start as a conclusion in search of evidence. No matter what they might turn up, they’re so focussed on proving the maker Clever, they’re just distasteful to me.
Not to mention, 5000calories a day was near impossible to actually eat if he was doing what he was said(Namely only getting a meal and supersizing if they ask) would average about 2500-3500 a day. So he over ate.
if you eat 5000cal a day you would hurt no matter what.
While i agree with you they look in terms of evidence, alot of it can be "Well DUH" Like yeah, corporations are harming the enviroment, yeah mcdonalds is bad for you, yeah corporations are sending labor to china for cheap labor. WE ALL KNEW THAT.
MM is hit or miss with me, he has some misses, and a lot of his videos are preaching to the choir. I did like "where to invade next?" for listing things america should take from other countries.
I'm not a big fan of his, i respect him and his courage. and it takes a lot of courage for him to do what he does, but most of his docs i can pass on.
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..."
Matt Swain wrote: MM is hit or miss with me, he has some misses, and a lot of his videos are preaching to the choir. I did like "where to invade next?" for listing things america should take from other countries.
I'm not a big fan of his, i respect him and his courage. and it takes a lot of courage for him to do what he does, but most of his docs i can pass on.
It doesn't take any courage to misrepresent people and tell the existing audience who already agree with you how right they are.
It takes a lot more courage to have an honest conversation and try to work out practical solutions, than just rake in cash with faux outrage
Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD! 
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