Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Yep. Its the perfect elevator music. It just carries on, no highs, no lows, just something vague and inconspicuous in the background. When its over, you might not even notice.
Much like Michael Keaton, now that I think about it...
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Definitions vary quite a bit. I hold closer to the Simpson’s definition than Susan Sontag’s. (And perhaps the term has been conflated with cheese or kitsch for me.). When the cast or director play straight something that is ridiculous, or don’t seem to recognize the ridiculousness, to me that is campy. Nolan’s Batman has plenty of ridiculous stuff played straight. Hell, the whole tread of darker and grittier in movies is silly as hell, but for some reason a lot of people either still don’t see it or only laugh when Snyder does it even though Nolan’s films started it.
The reason other people don't see it is because most other people don't think there's only room for one kind of tone in comic films or films in general.
Yep. Its the perfect elevator music. It just carries on, no highs, no lows, just something vague and inconspicuous in the background. When its over, you might not even notice.
Much like Michael Keaton, now that I think about it...
He's a terrific actor, but he definitely played his Batman in as much of a low-key way as possible. It's a stoic, subdued performance. I mean, you can read the reviews of the day and they'll say the same thing. Bale was at the other end of the spectrum, certainly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/29 22:20:24
I can’t really see where you’re coming from on this one.
Its pretty straightforward.
As Bruce Wayne, Michael Keaton was Random McBusinessGuy. He presumably did things with money and had fake dates with journalists that may or may not have involved sex. But nothing he did really struck me as something particular to the character of Bruce Wayne. And I'm pretty sure he did a better job at BusinessGuy in other films.
As Batman he played the caricature of the ideal stoic and... stood around... in front of a camera for a bit. I didn't get a sense he could really move around in his bat costume, let alone fight or do any sort of batman things, beyond hold on to movie wire and get pulled to the top of a building, or sit in a super-car cockpit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/29 22:30:27
As Batman he played the caricature of the ideal stoic and... stood around... in front of a camera for a bit. I didn't get a sense he could really move around in his bat costume, let alone fight or do any sort of batman things, beyond hold on to movie wire and get pulled to the top of a building, or sit in a super-car cockpit.
This is true, I remember reading contemporary articles about the suit, he could barely move his head, it took hours to get into and ripped at the drop of a batarang.
I even wondered if the conversation Bale has with Morgan Freeman at the start of TDK about revising the suit so he could move more was a little meta call back to that very issue when I first watched it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/29 22:38:03
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
One of the great themes of its age, so much so it’s impossible to conceive of the film without it.
Ah. There are a bunch of fantastically fun Prince songs attached to that film, and you go with the one bland elevator music piece.
Weird.
Love the Prince Songs - love that theme - really great in the cinema first time round - great now.
I thought Michael Keaton did a great job with his Bruce Wayne - but maybe it was a bit subtle for some
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Yeah, I always read Keaton’s Wayne as intense and ready to go off, but keeping it under a facade of generic business guy in public. His Batman was quite intimidating despite the limitations of the suit. But then, I personally find Keaton naturally more intense and intimidating than Bale.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @ Gorgon, I’m not saying there’s no room for it. I’m just saying people should acknowledge how it comes across outside the group of fans who prefer that tone. At the very least, the films’ sensibilities are dated.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/29 22:44:48
Lol, I don't find Keaton in the least intense, because to me he's Beetlejuice before he's Batman. Which I guess is a sort of intensity? (Whereas Bale came to the role from Patrick Bateman and the bizarre body horror of The Machinist for me.)
But I think the Nolan/Burton discussion is better defined by Nicholson/Ledger than it is Keaton/Bale.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/29 22:47:55
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Hmmm. I saw him in Dream Team first, where he played an unstable escaped mental patient...and some of that performance seemed to leak through to the Batman movie.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Definitions vary quite a bit. I hold closer to the Simpson’s definition than Susan Sontag’s. (And perhaps the term has been conflated with cheese or kitsch for me.). When the cast or director play straight something that is ridiculous, or don’t seem to recognize the ridiculousness, to me that is campy. Nolan’s Batman has plenty of ridiculous stuff played straight. Hell, the whole tread of darker and grittier in movies is silly as hell, but for some reason a lot of people either still don’t see it or only laugh when Snyder does it even though Nolan’s films started it.
Cool - someone else who does not worship in the temple of Nolan
I also detested Batlisp: The Rachel Pining Trilogy.
Back on topic, I thought this was interesting. An HBO Max exec said that the Snyder cut will be more than $30 mil. In fact, the line was something like "I wish it only cost $30 million."
I think this all but confirms that reshoots are happening. The timing of Cavill's new contract points there too. But is he just seeing his previous vision through, or is he adding NEW material...with purpose behind it?
Remember that there will be DC material on HBO Max -- the Green Lanterns show, (Adam) Strange Adventures, etc. So might he shoot new stuff to set them up? Or maybe even tying to the DC films? If the price tag is, say, $40-60 million, that's a lot of bread for the company to spend on something that won't lead anywhere. Even if it's popular, they aren't going to reassemble the JL cast for sequels on HBO Max, right?
All just speculation on my part, but there could be some smoke there. On a side note, it's also interesting to consider that this will be the fourth iteration of this thing.
1) Snyder's original, original vision of 3 JL movies that got axed by the studio after BvS's opening.
2) Snyder's original single 3-hour JL film ('the Snyder cut', mostly shot).
3) Whedon's majorly reworked 2-hour JL film.
4) Snyder's 4-hour (plus?) miniseries for HBO Max.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Argive wrote: they just need to make another man of steel movie..
Yep! Looking back, that was the mistake that set off the chain of dominoes. And while all that damage is done, I think the DCEU needs a strong Superman effort -- whatever that is -- to feel more back on track. WW and Aquaman doing huge BO business is great, but...
Also, a prominent rumormonger (Grace Randolph) tweeted minutes ago that "he (Snyder) will add little things that could become bigger things if this is a hit". A-ha! She's definitely been wrong at times (I'm not really a fan), but she has been right about stuff related to the so-called Snyder cut. So she probably has a solid source. Personally, I (and anyone with sense, IMO) would have laid a substantial sum of cash against this thing seeing the light of day in any form.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/04 17:03:36
Yeah, the future of DC Universe is very much in doubt. Original content is slim. Swamp Thing (which was solid) surprisingly got axed. Doom Patrol (also good) is shared with HBO Max. Stargirl is basically shared with CW. And of course the new GL, Adam Strange, etc. shows will be on HBO Max. Lack of $$$ features prominently here.
They still have Titans and the Harley Quinn cartoon (which is very funny, FYI) as flagship shows, but it's mostly older DC content and not even all of what exists with that.
Having said that, it's *great* for digital comics. At launch the selection was limited, but now it's huge...basically every back issue ever. My oldest uses it all time, so I kept my subscription.
At some point I expect it to be folded in somehow, or maybe the comics library to be split off.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/04 18:04:59
Easy E wrote: I thought DC had their own "streaming service" so I am surprised it is coming out elsewhere.
That one is more of a branch of the digital comics service. HBO Max is essentially the Warner Bros response to Disney+. WB isn't willing to invest this kind of money to support the DC service; its aiming for a rather niche audience. They'll dump the cash if it draws attention to their flagship service though, that will likely be their outlet for a variety of brands like Harry Potter and the like moving forward.
I think this all but confirms that reshoots are happening. The timing of Cavill's new contract points there too. But is he just seeing his previous vision through, or is he adding NEW material...with purpose behind it?
Reshoots are a tricky word. Contractually they include the SFX work required to finish a lot of existing shots. We generally use it as shorthand for "drag the actors back on set" but its not technically what that means.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gorgon wrote: Harley Quinn cartoon (which is very funny, FYI)
I'm finally getting to this and man... its good. Like really, really good. The set up on that Suicide Squad joke is just... epic.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/04 18:11:36
LunarSol wrote: Reshoots are a tricky word. Contractually they include the SFX work required to finish a lot of existing shots. We generally use it as shorthand for "drag the actors back on set" but its not technically what that means.
*IF* Randolph is correct, then the actors' contracts have apparently been extended for more photography. Guess we'll see.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gorgon wrote: Harley Quinn cartoon (which is very funny, FYI)
I'm finally getting to this and man... its good. Like really, really good. The set up on that Suicide Squad joke is just... epic.
Yeah, it's a gem...really well written with a great voice cast. I wouldn't be surprised if it makes the leap to HBO Max soon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/04 20:39:32
gorgon wrote: It's also not like Burton *invented* a modern Batman -- O'Neill and Adams, anyone? But if your only exposures to the character are Super Friends and the Adam West series, then I guess Burton seems like a revelation.
RIP Denny O'Neil, co-creator of the modern Batman.
gorgon wrote: It's also not like Burton *invented* a modern Batman -- O'Neill and Adams, anyone? But if your only exposures to the character are Super Friends and the Adam West series, then I guess Burton seems like a revelation.
RIP Denny O'Neil, co-creator of the modern Batman.
well thats a stinky bag of pish and wind and no mistake
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
Thats a good looking Darkseid. And this very well may be better then the theatrical version. But there is no fixing the core broken issues with this "universe" of movies.
BvS was Snyder. And that movie is a train wreck. Thats what we are getting here. A continuation of the train wreck started over there. It will be better. But the shiniest of turds still go in the toilet.
It doesn't help at all that Snyder doesn't understand any of these characters or what their themes are about. He actually dislikes everything about comic book heroes. Its why he did so well with Watchmen. Watchmen is a deconstruction of everything traditional superhero books are about.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/23 03:26:36
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
I think him disliking superheroes is fair - He talks about his favourite superheroes are Batman and Dr Manhattan. The latter isn't exact a hero in any sense of the word.
"You said you enjoyed the theatrical cut of Justice League like you enjoy your Saturday morning cartoons… Well this is made for grownups, so you’re not in the demographic."
Like, there's a lot of stuff that's gone on with the theatrical cut, plenty of it's not great but can he just like... Not be a combative jerk, just occasionally, please?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/23 03:42:16
Again, he doesn't understand the characters. His favorite superhero is Batman but he made the most purposefully lethal version of Batman to date? (Christian Bale kills more people when he blows up that entire Ninja house in Begins. But he didn't mean for that to happen. That was pure incompetence. Batflek killed all of his people on purpose.) feth that guy.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
I dunno how this will turn out. There are some crazy rumors about this one. I suspect that it’ll be somewhat like the BvS ultimate cut...a better, more realized vision, but YMMV depending how how you feel about Snyder. *shrug*
Snyder was a bit petulant in that tweet. But TO BE FAIR, it was a reply to a particular critic who made dismissive comments based on an early leak. It’s legitimately bad form for a pro to not wait for the official release before p*ssing on something. We’re talking about hours. Let the studio and director have its moment and then fire away.
I loved the original - interested to see what changes.
The trailer was good, nice pace and imagery - always a good choice of song.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Compel wrote: I think him disliking superheroes is fair - He talks about his favourite superheroes are Batman and Dr Manhattan. The latter isn't exact a hero in any sense of the word.
"You said you enjoyed the theatrical cut of Justice League like you enjoy your Saturday morning cartoons… Well this is made for grownups, so you’re not in the demographic."
Like, there's a lot of stuff that's gone on with the theatrical cut, plenty of it's not great but can he just like... Not be a combative jerk, just occasionally, please?
Snyder's tweet is the same self sastified arrogant and clueless mentalty we saw with BvS.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Eldar- 4436 pts
