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How I imagine it'll work is:



- You get 1CP per 100 points of game size

- You get 1 detachment for free but have to "buy" the rest of the detachments

- Battalions and brigades cost 1CP each (due to having to be filled out with troops) and the rest cost 3CP each

- Each detachment cost extra CP if they're from a different force than your warlords', so if he's an Ultramarine and you slot in a Raven Guard detachment then that's 1 extra CP per detachment (because they're still C:SM) but say a Admech detachment would cost an extra 2CP (due to being an entirely different book)

Note that this is just me speculation how it'll work in the end by trying to piece together clues from what have been said, and it's quite likely it won't look anything like this.

PiñaColada wrote:
How I imagine it'll work is:



- You get 1CP per 100 points of game size

- You get 1 detachment for free but have to "buy" the rest of the detachments

- Battalions and brigades cost 1CP each (due to having to be filled out with troops) and the rest cost 3CP each

- Each detachment cost extra CP if they're from a different force than your warlords', so if he's an Ultramarine and you slot in a Raven Guard detachment then that's 1 extra CP per detachment (because they're still C:SM) but say a Admech detachment would cost an extra 2CP (due to being an entirely different book)

Note that this is just me speculation how it'll work in the end by trying to piece together clues from what have been said, and it's quite likely it won't look anything like this.

They said CP was based on game size, and there are four game sizes. This means it's like CP for a range of points, not 1 for every 100 points.

Hrm.

We should really ask about the four sizes.

I mean … that's one more than the shells!

Wakshaani wrote:
Hrm.

We should really ask about the four sizes.

I mean … that's one more than the shells!

To quote Goonhammer who did a crackin' job putting that Q&A together:

Command points based on four army sizes. Smallest is 500 points / 25 PL (Combat Patrol). Other scales are Onslaught, Strike Force, and Incursion

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The spread is likely something like 500-999, 1000-1499, 1500-1999, 2000+

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
My biggest problem with the rule of 3 is the inconsistency of its implementation. Why do IG get to have 3 tanks per slot but we only get 1 falcon body type tank per slot?

Good thing it's not actually a rule.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
My biggest problem with the rule of 3 is the inconsistency of its implementation. Why do IG get to have 3 tanks per slot but we only get 1 falcon body type tank per slot?

Good thing it's not actually a rule.

Unless you play tournaments, or play with people who play in tournaments because those folk are usually practicing with their tournament army and want tournament compatible games.

as for how detachments work, I bet the FOC chart might change, I bet at low points games your first patrol detachment is free, at higher your first battalion.

so if you want to field a spear point, you're losing CPs.

it's how I'd do it anyway *shrugs*

I expect the game to get even more lethal, with more CP. People will just use one detachment, and spend the additional CP on stratagems. Stacking negatives to hit wont be possible anymore.

 p5freak wrote:
I expect the game to get even more lethal, with more CP. People will just use one detachment, and spend the additional CP on stratagems. Stacking negatives to hit wont be possible anymore.

Perhaps, but sneaking through terrain has been mentioned and it seems terrain density will be increasing along with rules that should allow things to survive being shot at a bit more.

BrianDavion wrote:
as for how detachments work, I bet the FOC chart might change, I bet at low points games your first patrol detachment is free, at higher your first battalion.

so if you want to field a spear point, you're losing CPs.

it's how I'd do it anyway *shrugs*

Except they aren't forcing you to take any unit type so set starting det isn't happening

I got a little sad realising that the new cp mechanic will continue to hurt my daemons. To keep the mono god detachments you'll now hemorrhage cp even if its just for patrol slots assumingly.

Saw this doing the rounds and I thnk a good few here will/might like it



by Sgt Smile

That Akira cover is great.

 Overread wrote:
Saw this doing the rounds and I thnk a good few here will/might like it

Spoiler:

by Sgt Smile

Ah love it haha. Great find.

tneva82 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
as for how detachments work, I bet the FOC chart might change, I bet at low points games your first patrol detachment is free, at higher your first battalion.

so if you want to field a spear point, you're losing CPs.

it's how I'd do it anyway *shrugs*

Except they aren't forcing you to take any unit type so set starting det isn't happening

That doesn't force you to take a unit type either, it just says taking a detachment with a troop requirement gives you full CP for the game, taking a specialised detachment will cost you some.

I think that's likely how it will work so as to encourage you to take troops, much as the current system does but just in reverse

Might just be whatever detachment your warlord is in is free - gives you more flexibility as you won’t feel forced to have a specific detachment to not ‘waste’ CPs and does restrict you in small games.

 Chimera_Calvin wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
as for how detachments work, I bet the FOC chart might change, I bet at low points games your first patrol detachment is free, at higher your first battalion.

so if you want to field a spear point, you're losing CPs.

it's how I'd do it anyway *shrugs*

Except they aren't forcing you to take any unit type so set starting det isn't happening

That doesn't force you to take a unit type either, it just says taking a detachment with a troop requirement gives you full CP for the game, taking a specialised detachment will cost you some.

I think that's likely how it will work so as to encourage you to take troops, much as the current system does but just in reverse

Its fun to speculate, which is the point of the thread I suppose. From what I can glean from the Q&A I do not get the impression that Troops will be needed to get "full CP." You get your CP allocation based on the game size and then spend them either in list construction (relics, traits etc, allies) or during the game. They have not talked about Detachments - they have mentioned them but not in detail. They do make the point that players should not be forced to take units to unlock things.

My hope is that they keep the current Detachments: first is free and subsequent ones are 1 CP each unless they are from another Codex in which they would be more. If they keep designations like Troops etc then I think that we would take them on their own merits and not because we feel we need to. If the 9th Ed Eternal War missions are anything like the CA19 missions, players will often want Troops to achieve victory conditions/points.

I have never liked the FOC - one of things about the shift to 3rd Ed that I was not happy about. Yes, grudges hold strong...Invalidate my favourite army will you!!! My sense is that 8th tried to give more freedom but the CP system essentially forced players to take one or two Battalions at the 2,000 point level. It seems that 9th is trying to open up list construction. Good for me!

 Chimera_Calvin wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
as for how detachments work, I bet the FOC chart might change, I bet at low points games your first patrol detachment is free, at higher your first battalion.

so if you want to field a spear point, you're losing CPs.

it's how I'd do it anyway *shrugs*

Except they aren't forcing you to take any unit type so set starting det isn't happening

That doesn't force you to take a unit type either, it just says taking a detachment with a troop requirement gives you full CP for the game, taking a specialised detachment will cost you some.

I think that's likely how it will work so as to encourage you to take troops, much as the current system does but just in reverse

Eh if you are given bat you have 3 troops to fillx hlw is that not forcing?

A few pages back we were wondering if all Vehicles would benefit from the changes to shooting out of melee or whether "Tank" was going to be a keyword. There is one of those Warhammer Community articles out yesterday (29 May) called Nine Ways to Prepare for Warhammer 40K's New Edition where they offer: "the Vehicles and Monsters of the 41st Millenium are about to become a whole lot nastier." So while these articles are not rules and are written in a light-hearted manner, perhaps we can infer that all Vehicles will gain the ability to shoot out of melee? I certainly hope so: easier to implement and if a Leman Russ can shoot out of melee and not break the game why not a Rhino? If a Carnifex can shoot its guns in melee why not a Dreadnought? Would make some of the vanilla Dreadnoughts a bit more fun to play.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/29/9-ways-to-prepare-for-warhammer-40000s-new-edition/

Not going to be that big a difference for a Rhino to shoot its guns into melee. But for other shootier vehicles, it would certainly make a difference. There is also the whole question about what the said vehicle can shoot at.

Can it only shoot at the unit it is in melee with? Or does it basically act as if normal despite being locked in melee and can shoot at something 48 inches away...

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Not going to be that big a difference for a Rhino to shoot its guns into melee. But for other shootier vehicles, it would certainly make a difference. There is also the whole question about what the said vehicle can shoot at.

Can it only shoot at the unit it is in melee with? Or does it basically act as if normal despite being locked in melee and can shoot at something 48 inches away...

Or option 3 it can shoot everything but what it's in melee with.

Dudeface wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Not going to be that big a difference for a Rhino to shoot its guns into melee. But for other shootier vehicles, it would certainly make a difference. There is also the whole question about what the said vehicle can shoot at.

Can it only shoot at the unit it is in melee with? Or does it basically act as if normal despite being locked in melee and can shoot at something 48 inches away...

Or option 3 it can shoot everything but what it's in melee with.

Or option 4 it can shoot out of combat but not into. Unlikely vehic'es/monsters will gain ability to shoot pinpoint into combat half a table away.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Not going to be that big a difference for a Rhino to shoot its guns into melee. But for other shootier vehicles, it would certainly make a difference. There is also the whole question about what the said vehicle can shoot at.

Can it only shoot at the unit it is in melee with? Or does it basically act as if normal despite being locked in melee and can shoot at something 48 inches away...

I'm guessing they all basically get the "Steel Behemoth" rule. So they can fire at anything but only non "blast" type weapons can fire at targets closer than 1. But that's just a guess.

tneva82 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Not going to be that big a difference for a Rhino to shoot its guns into melee. But for other shootier vehicles, it would certainly make a difference. There is also the whole question about what the said vehicle can shoot at.

Can it only shoot at the unit it is in melee with? Or does it basically act as if normal despite being locked in melee and can shoot at something 48 inches away...

Or option 3 it can shoot everything but what it's in melee with.

Or option 4 it can shoot out of combat but not into. Unlikely vehic'es/monsters will gain ability to shoot pinpoint into combat half a table away.

I hadn't even considered that tbh lol I assumed you wouldn't be able to anyway.

When they mentioned it they described something that sounded like you pick all your targets, and if you kill enough stuff you're engaged with via shooting, you can then shoot at other targets, but it seems like if you don't shoot your way out of combat then you won't be able to shoot at other targets.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Not going to be that big a difference for a Rhino to shoot its guns into melee. But for other shootier vehicles, it would certainly make a difference. There is also the whole question about what the said vehicle can shoot at.

Can it only shoot at the unit it is in melee with? Or does it basically act as if normal despite being locked in melee and can shoot at something 48 inches away...

I'm guessing they all basically get the "Steel Behemoth" rule. So they can fire at anything but only non "blast" type weapons can fire at targets closer than 1. But that's just a guess.

I was thinking along the same lines - with Blast becoming a thing it should be easy enough to write the intent of the Baneblade's Steel Behemoth into the core shooting rules. I'm being optimistic here!

Why not actually look at the other systems GW produces and make some rational guesses vs personal preference?

AoS already has some of these rules in place as well as army construction. And seeing as the aesthetic is moving towards being Sigmarines, it’s likely the rules systems will be very similar.

But feel free to add another 10 pages of making yourself feel better. Squat the Legend Marines already and let’s move the timeline forward.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Why not actually look at the other systems GW produces and make some rational guesses vs personal preference?

AoS already has some of these rules in place as well as army construction. And seeing as the aesthetic is moving towards being Sigmarines, it’s likely the rules systems will be very similar.

But feel free to add another 10 pages of making yourself feel better. Squat the Legend Marines already and let’s move the timeline forward.

Of course I missed all 8 battlefield roles/slots when picking armies in sigmar, or stratagems (hint they're not on heroes datasheets in 40k), the ability to actually customise units on a per model level, lack of formations etc.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Why not actually look at the other systems GW produces and make some rational guesses vs personal preference?

AoS already has some of these rules in place as well as army construction. And seeing as the aesthetic is moving towards being Sigmarines, it’s likely the rules systems will be very similar.

But feel free to add another 10 pages of making yourself feel better. Squat the Legend Marines already and let’s move the timeline forward.

They aren't moving the timeline forward, though.
They're actually backing up.

Dark Imperium hit the end of the Indomitus Crusade when 8th edition came out- the triumph happened and everybody was split off and sent to new war zones. It was the very first novel out of the gate, and it was 100 years on and the crusade was over.

Psychic Awakening backtracked in some vague fashion and set things during the crusade.

Dawn of Fire (the new book series) is also explicitly set during the crusade.

So rule systems are one thing, but the timeline is officially 'sometime during the first century of M42,' where details are being backfilled from the starting point of 8th edition.

Voss wrote:
So rule systems are one thing, but the timeline is officially 'sometime during the first century of M42,' where details are being backfilled from the starting point of 8th edition.

And we still haven't caught up to the Cain books, where Inquisitor Vail's notes are written in the mid-200s M42!