Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Obscuring changes basically nothing for tournament players who are used to playing on tables with 4+ large L-shape ruins often tall enough to hide a Knight. Now some GW chapel plays as ”windows closed” which was a common tournament rule already.

Infantry and especially hordes are still screwed.

 Therion wrote:
Obscuring changes basically nothing for tournament players who are used to playing on tables with 4+ large L-shape ruins often tall enough to hide a Knight. Now some GW chapel plays as ”windows closed” which was a common tournament rule already.

Infantry and especially hordes are still screwed.

And 5G causes corona virus.

Oh sorry I thought we were spouting off theories based on an abject lack of information.

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

We don't have the full 9th edition rules. But with what we DO have, melee and hordes don't seem like they're getting buffed. In fact, they seem pretty screwed.

We're working with the facts we have-and the facts we have do NOT paint a good picture.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 Therion wrote:
Obscuring changes basically nothing for tournament players who are used to playing on tables with 4+ large L-shape ruins often tall enough to hide a Knight. Now some GW chapel plays as ”windows closed” which was a common tournament rule already.

Infantry and especially hordes are still screwed.

And 5G causes corona virus.

Oh sorry I thought we were spouting off theories based on an abject lack of information.

So, are we or are we not allowed to voice our displeasure at the design direction? Because certainly it looks like some people can’t shut up about how hyped they are, despite likewise really not having any clue if 9th is good or not.

Some of the changes that I know of are good, some are terrible. Obscuring doesn’t change anything in competitive play. Removed - Rule #1 please

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/11/new-rules-for-the-imperiumgw-homepage-post-2/

 JNAProductions wrote:
I've said it before, I'll say it again:

We don't have the full 9th edition rules. But with what we DO have, melee and hordes don't seem like they're getting buffed. In fact, they seem pretty screwed.

We're working with the facts we have-and the facts we have do NOT paint a good picture.

But we can reasonably say we don’t know the full facts, as there’s so far no mention of rules for Hordes.


Of course, that’s not say they’re yet to come, or even exist.

And now battlefield pics:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
You can Chicken Little all you want so long as you're fine with others pointing out the sky isn't actually falling.

He's not saying the sky is falling. Stop using Internet Hyperbole to make rebuttals to points that aren't being made.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
You can Chicken Little all you want so long as you're fine with others pointing out the sky isn't actually falling.

He's not saying the sky is falling. Stop using Internet Hyperbole to make rebuttals to points that aren't being made.

Yeah "Hordes are screwed" definitely isn't a hyperbolic statement.

Hordes are definitely fethed considering that they are keeping the +1 to saving throws

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Yeah "Hordes are screwed" definitely isn't a hyperbolic statement.

Did you read the blast rules?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/11/terrain-rules-and-line-of-sightgw-homepage-post-1/

Oh joy. My daemons can continue to gain no benefit from cover.

Edit: That came off saltier than I meant it to. I'm okay with Daemons not needing cover.

What I AM salty about is that cover continues to disproportionately benefit MEQ over GEQ.

lol so the terrain rules dont help CC they nerf it more. Now your shooty boys hug heavy cover and get a nice +1 save against my orks charging in.

ofc i dont get this.

clap clap clap

 JNAProductions wrote:
Oh joy. My daemons can continue to gain no benefit from cover.

You do against AP0 weapons? You know you can choose to use their normal save, right?

Also is it just me or does Heavy Cover not give a bonus against shooting?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Oh joy. My daemons can continue to gain no benefit from cover.

You do against AP0 weapons? You know you can choose to use their normal save, right?

Also is it just me or does Heavy Cover not give a bonus against shooting?

6+ armor. 5++ Invuln.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
You can Chicken Little all you want so long as you're fine with others pointing out the sky isn't actually falling.

He's not saying the sky is falling. Stop using Internet Hyperbole to make rebuttals to points that aren't being made.

Yeah "Hordes are screwed" definitely isn't a hyperbolic statement.

It isn't hyperbolic. Hyperbolic would be like "GW destroyed the complete game".

 JNAProductions wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Oh joy. My daemons can continue to gain no benefit from cover.

You do against AP0 weapons? You know you can choose to use their normal save, right?

Also is it just me or does Heavy Cover not give a bonus against shooting?

6+ armor. 5++ Invuln.

Oh, the "line troops". Well, think of it as you've always got cover even in the open? Things like Bloodcrushers still benefit.

Regarding horde rules I do expect that the bravery rule from AoS will show up. There the unit gains +1 bravery(leadership) for every 10 models in the unit at the time of test.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Yeah "Hordes are screwed" definitely isn't a hyperbolic statement.

Did you read the blast rules?

Sure but if I saw a weapon profile with a high AP value without knowing about Invuln saves I'd probably think that high armor-save models were screwed too.

Which is all I'm saying, insisting something's fethed based on like 8.6% of the actual rules being known is a pointless exercise by someone who just wants something to be mad about.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Yeah "Hordes are screwed" definitely isn't a hyperbolic statement.

Did you read the blast rules?

Sure but if I saw a weapon profile with a high AP value without knowing about Invuln saves I'd probably think that high armor-save models were screwed too.

Which is all I'm saying, insisting something's fethed based on like 8.6% of the actual rules being known is a pointless exercise by someone who just wants something to be mad about.

Then do me a favor-list the rules that we have for a fact (not conjecture, not hype, nothing like that) that benefit hordes, and list those that penalize or hurt them.

Especially since, 8th edition books are valid in 9th. So a lot will be the same.

So one thing that you catch here if you read the text:

"Obstacles, on the other hand, are a footslogger’s best friend, as they offer the benefit of cover (which, for the most part, means +1 to your saving throws against ranged weapons) to Infantry, Beast or Swarm units if the obstacle is in the way of the firing unit."

IF THE OBSTACLE IS IN THE WAY OF THE FIRING UNIT.

You also have the Obscuring trait, which also triggers based on the terrain just being on the battlefield rather than units being right next to it

It seems we are seeing the return of the "intervening terrain" rules.

Which, hooray.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Oh joy. My daemons can continue to gain no benefit from cover.

You do against AP0 weapons? You know you can choose to use their normal save, right?

Also is it just me or does Heavy Cover not give a bonus against shooting?

It doesn't but a piece of terrain can give both types of cover.

 Latro_ wrote:
lol so the terrain rules dont help CC they nerf it more. Now your shooty boys hug heavy cover and get a nice +1 save against my orks charging in.

ofc i dont get this.

clap clap clap

Heavy cover explicitly says it's ignored by charging units though?

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Hordes are definitely fethed considering that they are keeping the +1 to saving throws

Yup, cover will continue to benefit power armour more than geq or weaker saves. Hordes are going to have it bad.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
lol so the terrain rules dont help CC they nerf it more. Now your shooty boys hug heavy cover and get a nice +1 save against my orks charging in.

ofc i dont get this.

clap clap clap

Heavy cover explicitly says it's ignored by charging units though?

That means the Boyz who charge in won't get the save bonus, but the unit hunkered down will, not that if I charge your unit it loses Heavy cover

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
You can Chicken Little all you want so long as you're fine with others pointing out the sky isn't actually falling.

He's not saying the sky is falling. Stop using Internet Hyperbole to make rebuttals to points that aren't being made.

Yeah "Hordes are screwed" definitely isn't a hyperbolic statement.

It isn't hyperbolic. Hyperbolic would be like "GW destroyed the complete game".

Saying an entire unit type is rendered worthless without having the full picture isn't an exaggerated take in the slightest?

Okie doke.

 Latro_ wrote:
lol so the terrain rules dont help CC they nerf it more. Now your shooty boys hug heavy cover and get a nice +1 save against my orks charging in.

ofc i dont get this.

clap clap clap

Did you even read the rules or just decide they were bad without doing so?

It specifically says the +1 save does not apply if the attacking unit charged.

In fact the charging orks WILL get cover save and the ones being charged won't which is a benefit to the chargers

I have to admit, I'm really not seeing where the melee boost is supposed to be coming in yet. The smaller table size will help this, but it remains to be seen how much.

These terrain rules are better, no doubt, but so far that's not really enough.

If overwatch actually goes away, then maybe that will be enough. So far we haven't seen a peep on it, so that may be a real possibility.

 BaconCatBug wrote:


Also is it just me or does Heavy Cover not give a bonus against shooting?

That is correct. The terrain also needs the "Light Cover" trait to give a bonus to shooting. I can't think of a single instance where you'd get Heavy Cover without first getting Light Cover, however.

Doohicky wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
lol so the terrain rules dont help CC they nerf it more. Now your shooty boys hug heavy cover and get a nice +1 save against my orks charging in.

ofc i dont get this.

clap clap clap

Did you even read the rules or just decide they were bad without doing so?

It specifically says the +1 save does not apply if the attacking unit charged.

In fact the charging orks WILL get cover save and the ones being charged won't which is a benefit to the chargers

Dude, it says the literal opposite. If the Orks charge a unit of CSM who are in heavy cover, the Orks made a charge move this turn, thus don't benefit from heavy cover, while the CSM do benefit.