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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:27:55
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis
On the Internet
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I'm assuming the popping into melee is to prevent weird edge cases like that Kroot Conga Line from happening again:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:29:07
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
The best State-Texas
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Necronmaniac05 wrote:The changes to Overwatch on the face of it are good but are really going to depend on how many 'other' ways there are to get it. If every unit under the sun has some ability that grants Overwatch then these changes to the core rule are meaningless.
I mean, we don't know if every unit that currently has a rule that interacts with OW will get OW as an ability AND their rule for example. I am all for a general approach of less but more meaningful overwatch but it remains to be seen whether this is the case both at launch and once we are 7 codexes in.
Yeah, this.
I like this change,but if a Ton of unis start getting handed the exception then the impact is going to be negligible.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:29:26
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Not so sure about the Aura of Discord rule, aren't all Deamon Engines also Vehicles, and so effectively receive no bonus at all from being nearby?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:31:08
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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ClockworkZion wrote:I'm assuming the popping into melee is to prevent weird edge cases like that Kroot Conga Line from happening again: That edge case isn't an edge case anymore because you can't deploy entire armies into Reserve.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/06/17 17:34:43
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:31:38
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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warl0rdb0b wrote:Not so sure about the Aura of Discord rule, aren't all Deamon Engines also Vehicles, and so effectively receive no bonus at all from being nearby?
It's the current rule.
ENEMY Vehicles get the penalty. FRIENDLY Daemon Engines get the bonus.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:35:54
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis
On the Internet
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Platuan4th wrote: ClockworkZion wrote:I'm assuming the popping into melee is to prevent weird edge cases like that Kroot Conga Line from happening again:
That edge case isn't an edge case anymore because you can't deploy entire armies into Reserve.
Right, but blocking out whole units is still possible so letting you deploy right into combat prevents that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:38:34
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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yukishiro1 wrote:The preview says the FTGG rules text is changing anyway, so it doesn't really matter what it says now.
"You may find that some units benefit from other special rules that modify Overwatch as well, such as the T’au Empire’s For the Greater Good special rule."
That doesn't say anything about the FTGG text changing, merely that it modifies Overwatch.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/17 17:42:51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:40:26
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis
On the Internet
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The Newman wrote:yukishiro1 wrote:The preview says the FTGG rules text is changing anyway, so it doesn't really matter what it says now.
"You may find that some units benefit from other special rules that modify Overwatch as well, such as the T’au Empire’s For the Greater Good special rule."
That doesn't say anything about the FTGG text changing, merely that it modifies Overwatch. Although that would imply that at a minimum GW reads FTGG as enabling Overwatch by itself.
The article says you can activate two units for the price of one for Tau.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:40:55
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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ClockworkZion wrote: Platuan4th wrote: ClockworkZion wrote:I'm assuming the popping into melee is to prevent weird edge cases like that Kroot Conga Line from happening again:
That edge case isn't an edge case anymore because you can't deploy entire armies into Reserve.
Right, but blocking out whole units is still possible so letting you deploy right into combat prevents that.
But that wasn't the actual point of the example story, which was a list designed to punish null deployment.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:42:27
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The Newman wrote:yukishiro1 wrote:The preview says the FTGG rules text is changing anyway, so it doesn't really matter what it says now.
"You may find that some units benefit from other special rules that modify Overwatch as well, such as the T’au Empire’s For the Greater Good special rule."
That doesn't say anything about the FTGG text changing, merely that it modifies Overwatch. Although that would imply that at a minimum GW reads FTGG as enabling Overwatch by itself.
Modifying something doesnt for a moment enable it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:44:25
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The Newman wrote:yukishiro1 wrote:The preview says the FTGG rules text is changing anyway, so it doesn't really matter what it says now.
"You may find that some units benefit from other special rules that modify Overwatch as well, such as the T’au Empire’s For the Greater Good special rule."
That doesn't say anything about the FTGG text changing, merely that it modifies Overwatch. Although that would imply that at a minimum GW reads FTGG as enabling Overwatch by itself.
I can’t find it now, maybe they said it in the stream, but I’m sure they said FTGG would allow you to fire with additional unit(s) when you spend 1CP for overwatch. I take that to mean that it would trigger as normal if a unit charged has native overwatch, and for units that don’t have native overwatch then spending the CP to allow the target of a charge to overwatch will trigger FTGG. Whether or not the wording of FTGG is changed isn’t clear, but it seems that the intent is for it to work more or less as it does now.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:46:00
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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yukishiro1 wrote:edit: Nevermind, it makes it sound like the deploying within 1" thing only applies if you deploy "on your table edge." This makes it far less likely to ever come up in a game where the outcome isn't already predetermined. If you're hunkering on your own table edge you've already lost the game the way the new missions work.
So you have never enemy units close to your table edge hunting at your tanks/characters where appearing within 6" of your table edge doesn't give you easy charge or shooting?
Enemy never comes into your deployment zone? Ever?
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:46:27
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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ClockworkZion wrote:The Newman wrote:yukishiro1 wrote:The preview says the FTGG rules text is changing anyway, so it doesn't really matter what it says now.
"You may find that some units benefit from other special rules that modify Overwatch as well, such as the T’au Empire’s For the Greater Good special rule."
That doesn't say anything about the FTGG text changing, merely that it modifies Overwatch. Although that would imply that at a minimum GW reads FTGG as enabling Overwatch by itself.
The article says you can activate two units for the price of one for Tau.
I'm failing the spot check, where are you seeing that?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:51:00
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Stealthy Kroot Stalker
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The Newman wrote: ClockworkZion wrote:The Newman wrote:yukishiro1 wrote:The preview says the FTGG rules text is changing anyway, so it doesn't really matter what it says now.
"You may find that some units benefit from other special rules that modify Overwatch as well, such as the T’au Empire’s For the Greater Good special rule."
That doesn't say anything about the FTGG text changing, merely that it modifies Overwatch. Although that would imply that at a minimum GW reads FTGG as enabling Overwatch by itself.
The article says you can activate two units for the price of one for Tau.
I'm failing the spot check, where are you seeing that?
That's odd, I recall that being mentioned specifically too, but I can't see it in the text. They've modified it at least once (the Overwatch text was... not punctuated. Whoops), they might have edited again to remove that based on re-reading the rules for FTGG?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:51:36
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The Newman wrote: ClockworkZion wrote:The Newman wrote:yukishiro1 wrote:The preview says the FTGG rules text is changing anyway, so it doesn't really matter what it says now.
"You may find that some units benefit from other special rules that modify Overwatch as well, such as the T’au Empire’s For the Greater Good special rule."
That doesn't say anything about the FTGG text changing, merely that it modifies Overwatch. Although that would imply that at a minimum GW reads FTGG as enabling Overwatch by itself.
The article says you can activate two units for the price of one for Tau.
I'm failing the spot check, where are you seeing that?
Nowhere because the article doesn't say that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 17:59:57
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Platuan4th wrote:The Newman wrote: ClockworkZion wrote:The Newman wrote:yukishiro1 wrote:The preview says the FTGG rules text is changing anyway, so it doesn't really matter what it says now.
"You may find that some units benefit from other special rules that modify Overwatch as well, such as the T’au Empire’s For the Greater Good special rule."
That doesn't say anything about the FTGG text changing, merely that it modifies Overwatch. Although that would imply that at a minimum GW reads FTGG as enabling Overwatch by itself.
The article says you can activate two units for the price of one for Tau.
I'm failing the spot check, where are you seeing that?
Nowhere because the article doesn't say that.
It originally said Tau have a two for one bonus but was since edited
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 18:02:25
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Matrindur wrote: Platuan4th wrote:The Newman wrote: ClockworkZion wrote:The Newman wrote:yukishiro1 wrote:The preview says the FTGG rules text is changing anyway, so it doesn't really matter what it says now.
"You may find that some units benefit from other special rules that modify Overwatch as well, such as the T’au Empire’s For the Greater Good special rule."
That doesn't say anything about the FTGG text changing, merely that it modifies Overwatch. Although that would imply that at a minimum GW reads FTGG as enabling Overwatch by itself.
The article says you can activate two units for the price of one for Tau.
I'm failing the spot check, where are you seeing that?
Nowhere because the article doesn't say that.
It originally said Tau have a two for one bonus but was since edited
So, in other words, it doesn't say that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 18:02:39
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
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Article does refer to The Greater Good though,
I’m quite liking this change.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 18:04:46
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Platuan4th wrote:Matrindur wrote: Platuan4th wrote:The Newman wrote: ClockworkZion wrote:The Newman wrote:yukishiro1 wrote:The preview says the FTGG rules text is changing anyway, so it doesn't really matter what it says now.
"You may find that some units benefit from other special rules that modify Overwatch as well, such as the T’au Empire’s For the Greater Good special rule."
That doesn't say anything about the FTGG text changing, merely that it modifies Overwatch. Although that would imply that at a minimum GW reads FTGG as enabling Overwatch by itself.
The article says you can activate two units for the price of one for Tau.
I'm failing the spot check, where are you seeing that?
Nowhere because the article doesn't say that.
It originally said Tau have a two for one bonus but was since edited
So, in other words, it doesn't say that.
Not anymore yes, could be someone did a mistake and that info was wrong, could be they just didn't want us to know yet
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 18:05:02
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
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Matrindur wrote: Platuan4th wrote:The Newman wrote: ClockworkZion wrote:The Newman wrote:yukishiro1 wrote:The preview says the FTGG rules text is changing anyway, so it doesn't really matter what it says now.
"You may find that some units benefit from other special rules that modify Overwatch as well, such as the T’au Empire’s For the Greater Good special rule."
That doesn't say anything about the FTGG text changing, merely that it modifies Overwatch. Although that would imply that at a minimum GW reads FTGG as enabling Overwatch by itself.
The article says you can activate two units for the price of one for Tau.
I'm failing the spot check, where are you seeing that?
Nowhere because the article doesn't say that.
It originally said Tau have a two for one bonus but was since edited
I can confirm it did say that originally. Faeit 212 still has the original transcription on their page here http://natfka.blogspot.com/2020/06/big-changes-to-overwatch-in-9th-edition.html
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My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 18:05:49
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
Mexico
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This is what the article originally said about the Tau before being edited.
You may find that some units benefit from other special rules that modify Overwatch as well, such as the T’au Empire’s For the Greater Good special rule, essentially giving them two-for-one Overwatch fire – a brilliant use of a single Command point!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 18:08:30
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice
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yukishiro1 wrote:The limit to once per phase is virtually irrelevant, it's very rare you're charging more than one unit with significant overwatch in the first place, and if you are, you're almost certainly turning it off against at least one of them. Because overwatch was so ubiquitous in 8th, any combat army basically had to have some way of ignoring it, either directly, through using soakers, or through using terrain. And T'au get to at least partially ignore the mechanic, which is the only army where you would potentially have to face multiple units worth of overwatch regularly.
The big thing is it costing 1CP. This is going to amount to a 2-3CP tax over the course of the average game for a gunline, which is significant...but only if that stuff on the stream about "the strat isn't the only way to overwatch" turns out to be minor. If it turns out that every major unit (+ every space marine unit period because Space Marines( TM)) gets free overwatch, this whole thing is pretty much pointless anyway.
In any case, overwatch wasn't the issue for melee in 8th, the issue was the free fall back with virtually no consequences that meant that unless you could trap a unit, your melee unit always died the turn after charging.
All the changes to overwatch in the world won't compensate for the nerf to melee that would occur if they gave a fall back strat that lets you fall back even if you are wrapped, for example.
I disagree with the first part.
I'd argue overwatch is going to be largely useless except for certain specific exceptions because now you can bait overwatch again.
By that I mean, even if you have a Knight Valiant, I can charge you with a single guardsmen and you either spend 1CP and nuke him (not remotely worth it) or I tag you and you are now no longer eligible to fire OW at whatever hell I actually wanted to hit the knight with.
Basically overwatch will make it's largest impact in the end turns i my guess. When your down to only a few key units that are already damaged or isolated. I'm OK with that. Automatically Appended Next Post: Kanluwen wrote:Voss wrote:Looks new. And a different style- more starship troopers the movie.
And by an artist who thinks guardsmen have machineguns, apparently. The guy behind the first one's muzzle flash is using something that's almost a P-90.
So, there's some interesting bits going on apparently.
The guy in the background is using an Urdeshi Mark VI Lasgun. It's also shown in the Sabbat Worlds book on a Blood Pact soldier, albeit with some modifications to the barrel & a bayonet.
Found the original image as well. It's used in the Drukhari Codex...but it's not entirely the same image?
Drukhari Codex p71 for 8th edition, in case anyone can check to see if the page art has the Guardsmen front and center as well?
Thats old art mate. It's from the 7th ed DE Coven Supplement. Automatically Appended Next Post: ClockworkZion wrote:I'm assuming the popping into melee is to prevent weird edge cases like that Kroot Conga Line from happening again:
That was already fixed with the current tactical reserves rules. The new addition fixes the CURRENT problem where units can be blocked off the entire table, which would have been even worse on the new size. Now I can at the very least appear in combat, this helps GSC tremendously.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/17 18:14:38
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 18:16:50
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle
Alabama
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yukishiro1 wrote:If you're hunkering on your own table edge you've already lost the game the way the new missions work.
Leafblower IG would probably disagree with you. But we'll see. I think I misunderstood how it works. I assumed that the deploying would work like outflanking used to work and you'd "move on" to the board. Now that I re-read it, it sounds like if the enemy is 1" from your board edge, which will happen quite rarely. Automatically Appended Next Post: Sasori wrote:Necronmaniac05 wrote:The changes to Overwatch on the face of it are good but are really going to depend on how many 'other' ways there are to get it. If every unit under the sun has some ability that grants Overwatch then these changes to the core rule are meaningless.
I mean, we don't know if every unit that currently has a rule that interacts with OW will get OW as an ability AND their rule for example. I am all for a general approach of less but more meaningful overwatch but it remains to be seen whether this is the case both at launch and once we are 7 codexes in.
Yeah, this.
I like this change,but if a Ton of unis start getting handed the exception then the impact is going to be negligible.
Reminds me of when ObSec was gone from the 8th rules. And then it showed up in every codex.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/17 18:18:57
WH40K
Death Guard 5100 pts.
Daemons 3000 pts.
DT:70+S++G+M-B-I--Pw40K90-D++A++/eWD?R++T(D)DM+
28 successful trades in the Dakka Swap Shop! Check out my latest auction here!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 18:23:19
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Stealthy Kroot Stalker
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Tyran wrote:This is what the article originally said about the Tau before being edited.
You may find that some units benefit from other special rules that modify Overwatch as well, such as the T’au Empire’s For the Greater Good special rule, essentially giving them two-for-one Overwatch fire – a brilliant use of a single Command point!
A screenshot someone else shared elsewhere, with the original wording:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 18:39:28
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis
On the Internet
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Nice to see I haven't gone crazy yet!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 18:41:16
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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sure, but if it's removed it's probably more likely to be el classico "warhammer community writer forgot how rule worked" situation than a secret rule change.
RAW, you get to overwatch with EVERYTHING within 6" if you want with FTGG right?
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 18:45:14
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord
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the_scotsman wrote:sure, but if it's removed it's probably more likely to be el classico "warhammer community writer forgot how rule worked" situation than a secret rule change.
RAW, you get to overwatch with EVERYTHING within 6" if you want with FTGG right?
They say there's a day 1 faq to clarify how all overwatch based abilities work, it might be changed to a 2-4-1 style situation.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 18:52:14
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Dudeface wrote:
They say there's a day 1 faq to clarify how all overwatch based abilities work, it might be changed to a 2-4-1 style situation.
At the rate these changes are stacking up, the Day 1 FAQ for most armies is going to need to be Codex sized given the growing list of rules, equipment, units and abilities that are flat out non-functional in 9th as currently written.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 18:55:29
Subject: Re:40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Dakka Veteran
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Voss wrote:
Eh. Its situational to the point of 'if I'm not rolling tons of dice or have 5+ flamers' I'm never going to use it, it turns no brainer again, and that is bad.
aha. this is literally what SITUATIONAL means....
not so thrilled about the 'cool headed' rule, though... we all know what 'far in between' generally means for GW...
really hoping to see fall back as a strategem, that would make me wanna field my orks close combat centric again
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/17 18:56:13
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/06/17 19:01:27
Subject: Re:40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
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Norn Queen
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RedNoak wrote:Voss wrote:
Eh. Its situational to the point of 'if I'm not rolling tons of dice or have 5+ flamers' I'm never going to use it, it turns no brainer again, and that is bad.
aha. this is literally what SITUATIONAL means....
not so thrilled about the 'cool headed' rule, though... we all know what 'far in between' generally means for GW...
really hoping to see fall back as a strategem, that would make me wanna field my orks close combat centric again
Cool headed is only for narrative (crusade) play anyway.
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