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yukishiro1 wrote:
The secondaries aren't all hard to max at all, and the balance between them is really not very good. A few of them are much easier than others - if someone takes 5 more more 11W vehicles, that's a no-brainer assuming you can kill vehicles, as is the one to kill two knights against a knight player (unless you just can't kill knights in your list at all). Kill more is easy to max, assuming you are in a position to do so based on your list and theirs. Assassinate is another one that will be easy to max for certain lists against other lists.

Then there's stuff that is virtually impossible to max no matter what, like the recon clone, which would require you to have a unit in all four quarters ever single turn of the game. Or basically any of the action-based ones.

Since secondaries are revealed prior to reserves I would punch all my soft stuff into reserves against someone angling for kill more. Then let them ride to turn 3 and rob the opportunity.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Which would get worse over time. Your bad painters, slow painters, or just people who are really busy will get sick of playing their only painted list and stop showing up.

It's why we don't have paint points in any of our locals. We're lucky to get 10 people as it is. Tell them you have to paint your army and you'll be lucky to keep 4.

I've been to one tournament in my life. It was during the dark times of 7th, so Eldar/Tau Riptide soup spam made everything exceptionally unfun, but that aside I was disappointed that only one of the armies was painted (and I say that as someone who brought an unpainted army). That said, even I understood that if that had been a requirement, it would have been a tournament with one person in it, which means it wouldn't've been a tournament at all.

It is so disappointing that GW has chosen to implement a rule during a time when game companies are trying to increase accessibility (sometimes to extreme degrees, like the recent Last of Us 2's various visual impairment modes).

Keep acting dramatic you two. You keep pretending this is a requirement, it's not. You can still play in either of your scenarios. You just get 90 points. Anyone petty enough to not attend an event in their local shop do to it is a WAAC person your better off not gaming with. BTW in HBMC's fake example if 1 guy in X has a painted army you could easily figure out who the best general was by dropping the 10 entire points from the one guys score and comparing lol. But apparently that jerk shouldn't be able to win best overall despite being the only guy to put effort into his army.

That's the funny thing here. For years folks with a chip on their shoulder in events cried about chipmonking and painting at events despite there being best general. They just wanted their end of the hobby to dominate the spotlight rather then then overall. Nothing in this scoring system would stop anyone even in a pick up game from figuring out who the best general was. It's literally a 10 point reduction on one guy.

Might have missed this in the painting discussion.

My interpretation of the 9th edition fight phase order is this:

There are three speeds.

Ludicrous Speed - Charging units, Always Strikes First units.
Normal Speed - Normal non charging units.
Slow Speed - Units under some sort of fights last or fights slow effect.

Players then alternate picking eligilbe units to fight, "Defender" picks first.

First they alternate between Ludicrous Speed units. So if the Defender has any, they get to choose one. But, if the Defender just has Normal Speed units then none of those units are eligible yet. So they will get attacked by all the Attackers Ludicrous Speed units.

Thus ASF is very powerful when being charged. Is anyone else interpreting it this way?

This does seem to give a lot of power to Slaanesh Daemons, Emperor's Children and Ynnari (under soulburst).

yukishiro1 wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The vibe in this thread would be completely reversed if the rule was in regards to painting competitions and dictated that positive W/L records from matches grant extra points when determining the winner.

Whether you think it's a good rule or not is ultimately preference, and also irrelevant, but you're simply wrong if you don't think this rule is 100% arbitrary. I'm not effected by it in any way personally, but on principle if someone tried to swing this gak at me I would immediately counter with "sure, but we also get points deducted for unfluffiness as well. Let me see your list so I can make sure all your unit selections match up with how your force would canonically fight." A Thousand Sons army with Mortarion allied in? Gonna have to deduct 10 points from you there chief.

Well, that's a bit of an unfair analogy, isn't it?

Battle Ready isn't a quality standard, it's just a "did you do this?" It doesn't have to be good, it just has to be done. So the analogy would be to just playing, not to what your W/L ratio was.

So it would be like saying "you get an additional 10 points in the painting competition if you played in the tournament too."

Which I agree is also silly...but it's less silly than your analogy.

Actually this blows holes in their own argument about applying the reverse to painting. You literally have to play in an event to win best painted army. So actually a guy wanting to win best painted army already has had to play the game whether he cares for it or not. You can't just waltz in off the street at an event and win best painted army. So actually this just makes it more evqual.

You CAN enter painting competitions if they are held at the convention. But they have nothing to do with 40k even and have multiple systems and sometimes companies.

But as usual they have to create a dishonest scenario.

Not really. The opposite example would be that to win the painting competition you have to score well in games.

A person who's just in it for the painting (other than being probably able to just find a pure painting comp - entering a tournament just for painting seems like a lot of effort) can literally throw every game and still get best painted.

Same can't be said with this new rule.

EightFoldPath wrote:
Might have missed this in the painting discussion.

My interpretation of the 9th edition fight phase order is this:

There are three speeds.

Ludicrous Speed - Charging units, Always Strikes First units.
Normal Speed - Normal non charging units.
Slow Speed - Units under some sort of fights last or fights slow effect.

Players then alternate picking eligilbe units to fight, "Defender" picks first.

First they alternate between Ludicrous Speed units. So if the Defender has any, they get to choose one. But, if the Defender just has Normal Speed units then none of those units are eligible yet. So they will get attacked by all the Attackers Ludicrous Speed units.

Thus ASF is very powerful when being charged. Is anyone else interpreting it this way?

This does seem to give a lot of power to Slaanesh Daemons, Emperor's Children and Ynnari (under soulburst).

Your interpretation is mostly correct. The defender won't ever have chargers though (unless they introduce some sort of counter-charge mechanic), so your chargers would go first, then the defender would get to choose the first "normal" combat.

Agreed on the last point. I think that's what they were aiming for, making those rules more impactful.

Didn't think of that.

My Toxicrene is really happy.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Not really. The opposite example would be that to win the painting competition you have to score well in games.

A person who's just in it for the painting (other than being probably able to just find a pure painting comp - entering a tournament just for painting seems like a lot of effort) can literally throw every game and still get best painted.

Same can't be said with this new rule.

That really isn't the opposite, to win best painted army you must be in the tournament, but you can win that accolade with next to no strategic ability and lose every game. This is the equivalent to saying you can win best general even if you paint terribly, but you have to paint to partake - except it isn't, you're just getting 10 points fewer for an unpainted army. A good general will still win the games and the tourneys with an unpainted army.

If you're not very good at 40k and don't want to paint then there are 2 ways to start improving your scores, but painting will be a fairly low impact 10 points.

There is literally a whole thread dedicated specifically to the 10 painting VP bonus thriller.

Not that's any of my business or anything, but maybe we don't need two of those.

EightFoldPath wrote:
Might have missed this in the painting discussion.

My interpretation of the 9th edition fight phase order is this:

There are three speeds.

Ludicrous Speed - Charging units, Always Strikes First units.
Normal Speed - Normal non charging units.
Slow Speed - Units under some sort of fights last or fights slow effect.

Players then alternate picking eligilbe units to fight, "Defender" picks first.

First they alternate between Ludicrous Speed units. So if the Defender has any, they get to choose one. But, if the Defender just has Normal Speed units then none of those units are eligible yet. So they will get attacked by all the Attackers Ludicrous Speed units.

Thus ASF is very powerful when being charged. Is anyone else interpreting it this way?

This does seem to give a lot of power to Slaanesh Daemons, Emperor's Children and Ynnari (under soulburst).

Any bets on which army gets the first special rule that lets them go plaid?

 p5freak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
If the rule requires the models to be Battle Ready, doesn't that mean if you paint them BETTER than Battle Ready, you'll not have painted them to a Battle Ready standard and lose the points?

Yes.

You guys are just the silliest people on the planet.

 AduroT wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:
Might have missed this in the painting discussion.

My interpretation of the 9th edition fight phase order is this:

There are three speeds.

Ludicrous Speed - Charging units, Always Strikes First units.
Normal Speed - Normal non charging units.
Slow Speed - Units under some sort of fights last or fights slow effect.

Players then alternate picking eligilbe units to fight, "Defender" picks first.

First they alternate between Ludicrous Speed units. So if the Defender has any, they get to choose one. But, if the Defender just has Normal Speed units then none of those units are eligible yet. So they will get attacked by all the Attackers Ludicrous Speed units.

Thus ASF is very powerful when being charged. Is anyone else interpreting it this way?

This does seem to give a lot of power to Slaanesh Daemons, Emperor's Children and Ynnari (under soulburst).

Any bets on which army gets the first special rule that lets them go plaid?

Nice.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
If the rule requires the models to be Battle Ready, doesn't that mean if you paint them BETTER than Battle Ready, you'll not have painted them to a Battle Ready standard and lose the points?

Yes.

You guys are just the silliest people on the planet.

Just grab the popcorn and enjoy the show.

Didn't see it mentioned (but then again, I blinked and this thing added about 20 pages), but is it going to be all power swords going to +1S, or just the MC ones (which usually just adds that point of damage)? If so, that's a change I like.

 Latro_ wrote:

Abaddon303 wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Abaddon303 wrote:
There doesn't appear to be any restriction on IMPERIAL or CHAOS keywords in a detachment anymore? Is that perhaps because the additional detachments are already enough of a penalty?

You still have to share a keyword across the whole army (IMPERIUM, CHAOS, etc) as before. But yeah I think the tax for taking allies is just having the pay CP for other detachments, or putting everything in the same one and losing detachment abilities.

I'm actually stoked on that. Means I can pay 3CP for an IMPERIUM vanguard to put Inquisition units in and still take things like Crusaders and a Taurox for them to ride in. Happy days!

nope

yeah but fielding a guard bat and a blood angels patrol is the same cost as fielding a deathskull bat and a evilsunz patrol
Monodexes dont get eny benefit for fielding mono armies

Ahh we need the most important leaks now: the points for all factions.

Indomitus doesn't contain the booklet containing the points (Munitorum something) and stores haven't received it alongside Indomitus, so I doubt we'll see leaks before release on the 11th.

dogfender wrote:
I’m miffed the new captain doesn’t have a relic blade standard or volkite pistol.
Why does a Lt have a better side arm?
There should at least been given the option to upgrade on his table.
I really hoped GW would have stopped the the tight butthole approach on wargear, or at least loosened a bit

So he can take chapter relics or thr burning blade and have an even cooler sword of course.

RedNoak wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

Abaddon303 wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Abaddon303 wrote:
There doesn't appear to be any restriction on IMPERIAL or CHAOS keywords in a detachment anymore? Is that perhaps because the additional detachments are already enough of a penalty?

You still have to share a keyword across the whole army (IMPERIUM, CHAOS, etc) as before. But yeah I think the tax for taking allies is just having the pay CP for other detachments, or putting everything in the same one and losing detachment abilities.

I'm actually stoked on that. Means I can pay 3CP for an IMPERIUM vanguard to put Inquisition units in and still take things like Crusaders and a Taurox for them to ride in. Happy days!

nope

yeah but fielding a guard bat and a blood angels patrol is the same cost as fielding a deathskull bat and a evilsunz patrol
Monodexes dont get eny benefit for fielding mono armies

If you're using 2 klans in 2 detachments, you're doing it to game an advantage the same as the guard player.

 bullyboy wrote:
Didn't see it mentioned (but then again, I blinked and this thing added about 20 pages), but is it going to be all power swords going to +1S, or just the MC ones (which usually just adds that point of damage)? If so, that's a change I like.

You could be right. Might be the saving grace for melee this edition. Of course if it winds up being marines only...we riot.

I guess they're giving the rules away for free today...just got the email.Also, the missile bunker...with super missiles. Lol, GW, come on...at least try.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Didn't see it mentioned (but then again, I blinked and this thing added about 20 pages), but is it going to be all power swords going to +1S, or just the MC ones (which usually just adds that point of damage)? If so, that's a change I like.

You could be right. Might be the saving grace for melee this edition. Of course if it winds up being marines only...we riot.

wait wait wait. Power swords get +1 str? Where is that from?

Asking for my Scarab Terminator friends.

Spoletta wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
If the rule requires the models to be Battle Ready, doesn't that mean if you paint them BETTER than Battle Ready, you'll not have painted them to a Battle Ready standard and lose the points?

Yes.

You guys are just the silliest people on the planet.

Just grab the popcorn and enjoy the show.

This phase is always good for a fireworks show with every new edition. Six months from now, all the stuff people are losing their minds over will be forgotten, and new (potentially legitimate) issues will have taken their place.

But this particular show might be the all-time best. It's been fun to watch. Some of the tears are just delicious.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/02/free-core-rules-new-models-sighted/

CORE RULES ARE AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD NOW!

Core rules are up on WHC

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Didn't see it mentioned (but then again, I blinked and this thing added about 20 pages), but is it going to be all power swords going to +1S, or just the MC ones (which usually just adds that point of damage)? If so, that's a change I like.

You could be right. Might be the saving grace for melee this edition. Of course if it winds up being marines only...we riot.

wait wait wait. Power swords get +1 str? Where is that from?

Asking for my Scarab Terminator friends.

In the leaks the master crafted power swords were S+1 D2 instead of just D2 like in the marine book.

Looks like GW is on full damage control this morning and have released the free core rules.

English: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Lw4o3USx1R8sU7cQ.pdf

The Article with links to other languages: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/02/free-core-rules-new-models-sighted/

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Looks like GW is on full damage control this morning and have released the free core rules.

English: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Lw4o3USx1R8sU7cQ.pdf

The Article with links to other languages: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/02/free-core-rules-new-models-sighted/

it's rather nicely put together for a panic publish. At the very least, they had this ready to go and the leaks just pushed it forwards a few days.

Engagement range is an inch? That's going to be fun. Area denial to non-chargers (and by flyers) is very real.


---
Superfrag missile. Yeah. This isn't compensating for anything.
At least it doesn't completely obsolete whirlwinds, as it still needs line of site.

---
Hmm. Necron terrain might be interesting.

Well that solves that question:

While a model is within 1" horizontally
and 5" vertically of an enemy model, those models are within
Engagement Range of each other

Charges only need to end within an 1" still it seems.

Also 5" vertical should help prevent some nonsense. Though not being able to charge the top floor of a two story building with a Carnifex is still annoying.