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ERJAK wrote: Fair enough. But it's still irrelevant because no one will play it that way. Assault weapons weren't able to shoot after advancing for all of 8th edition and that never stopped anyone. You sure do like to spend a lot of your time on things that don't matter and will never matter.
Why not? It's literally intended for saves to become 1+ You not liking a rule doesn't change it. And they FAQed it as intended in AOS.
I think I get it now. You can't modify a roll below 1, and modified rolls of 1 always save when you have a 1+ save, so a 1+ save with a -42 AP cannot go beneath 1, therefore any dice roll is modified to 1, and as their save is 1+, it saves. Only a natural 1 would fail, as natural 1's always fail.
Thank you for the (expansive) explanation.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/02 16:11:14
yukishiro1 wrote: Why are you discussing something that we don't even know is a fact? The shields shown don't matter because they're on something with a 3+ to begin with, so it only becomes a 2+.
If models with a 2+ to begin with get a shield that improves their save characterstic by 1 then you can start to have your argument about how stupid GW is (answer: very!).
Again, even forgetting Storm Shields, it's doable in the Crusade ruleset and even EXPLICITLY STATED YOU CAN DO IT.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I think I get it now. You can't modify a roll below 1, and modified rolls of 1 always save, so a 1+ save with a -42 AP cannot go beneath 1, therefore any dice roll is modified to 1, and as their save is 1+, it saves. Only a natural 1 would fail, as natural 1's always fail.
Thank you for the (expansive) explanation.
I can't tell if that's sarcasm or sincerity, so I'll go all quantum wibbly wobbly assume it's both and neither!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/02 16:11:18
yukishiro1 wrote: Crusade isn't matched play, so I don't think anybody really cares whether you get a 2++ there or not.
You would be very wrong about that. But that's not the issue at hand. Crusade functions within the 9th edition ruleset and explicitly allows a particular circumstance to occur. That circumstance must therefore be resolved within the confines of the ruleset. Therefore, barring any extraneous factor, a 1+ save in Crusade functions identically to a 1+ save in Matched Play.
I'm not saying they don't. I'm saying there is no written rule we have with an example of a model with a 2+ save to begin with getting one of these storm shields. So it's silly to speculate that it will happen. For all we know they'll keep the old 3++ storm shields that don't improve armor save.
The whole thing is built on total speculation. I could say "what if wraith knights in 9th get a 2+ save and then their shield option improves it by 1! wraithtknights would have a 2++!"
If the moon was made out of cheese, it'd be tasty.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/02 16:17:03
yukishiro1 wrote: I'm not saying they don't. I'm saying there is no written rule we have with an example of a model with a 2+ save to begin with getting one of these storm shields. So it's silly to speculate that it will happen. For all we know they'll keep the old 3++ storm shields that don't improve armor save.
The whole thing is built on total speculation. I could say "what if wraith knights in 9th get a 2+ save and then their shield option improves it by 1! wraithtknights would have a 2++!"
If the moon was made out of cheese, it'd be tasty.
Again, we're working on what knowledge we have. Why would Terminator or Custodes Storm Shields have different rules to Primaris Storm Shields? It's possible that they might, but for now Halon's Razor suggests that all Storm Shields will have the same rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/02 16:18:31
Why wouldn't they? This is GW. They had an assault weapon rule that didn't work for an entire edition. Assuming everything they do is logical and consistent is pretty silly.
How would they even change it, for that matter? There are no indexes being released for 9th. The points updates just update points. There's an index of blast weapons, but no other suggestion that any other rules are being updated at the 9th release. So the earliest they could get the Primaris Storm Shields would be their codex anyway.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/02 16:21:29
yukishiro1 wrote: I'm not saying they don't. I'm saying there is no written rule we have with an example of a model with a 2+ save to begin with getting one of these storm shields. So it's silly to speculate that it will happen. For all we know they'll keep the old 3++ storm shields that don't improve armor save.
The whole thing is built on total speculation. I could say "what if wraith knights in 9th get a 2+ save and then their shield option improves it by 1! wraithtknights would have a 2++!"
If the moon was made out of cheese, it'd be tasty.
Again, we're working on what knowledge we have. Why would Terminator or Custodes Storm Shields have different rules to Primaris Storm Shields? It's possible that they might, but for now Halon's Razor suggests that all Storm Shields will have the same rules.
Even if true, this is not the place for your rules arguement.
ERJAK wrote: Fair enough. But it's still irrelevant because no one will play it that way. Assault weapons weren't able to shoot after advancing for all of 8th edition and that never stopped anyone. You sure do like to spend a lot of your time on things that don't matter and will never matter.
Why not? It's literally intended for saves to become 1+
You not liking a rule doesn't change it. And they FAQed it as intended in AOS.
I think I get it now. You can't modify a roll below 1, and modified rolls of 1 always save when you have a 1+ save, so a 1+ save with a -42 AP cannot go beneath 1, therefore any dice roll is modified to 1, and as their save is 1+, it saves. Only a natural 1 would fail, as natural 1's always fail.
Thank you for the (expansive) explanation.
Well, yeah, that's how it worked in WHFB.
In WHFB it was possible to have -1 saves. It didn't make your models immortal, it just gave them extra protection against save modifiers, as you still failed the save on a roll of a 1.
It's not a new mechanic at all, GW is just reusing mechanics from a system they abandoned.
What I have
~4100
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Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
yukishiro1 wrote: I'm not saying they don't. I'm saying there is no written rule we have with an example of a model with a 2+ save to begin with getting one of these storm shields. So it's silly to speculate that it will happen. For all we know they'll keep the old 3++ storm shields that don't improve armor save.
The whole thing is built on total speculation. I could say "what if wraith knights in 9th get a 2+ save and then their shield option improves it by 1! wraithtknights would have a 2++!"
If the moon was made out of cheese, it'd be tasty.
A) it isn't 2+ invulnerable. This actually can't happen with invulnerable saves, since AP modifiers can't be applied.
B) there are existing circumstances in the game rules that make this not theoretical- any affect that changes the save characteristic can result in this situation.
BaconCatBug wrote:Again, we're working on what knowledge we have. Why would Terminator or Custodes Storm Shields have different rules to Primaris Storm Shields? It's possible that they might, but for now Halon's Razor suggests that all Storm Shields will have the same rules.
Currently they don't have the same rules. Until they're replaced, the stormshields give a 3++ and nothing else, as written on their datasheet. Existing books and datasheets are still the valid ones.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/02 16:25:21
Now for something really important. My local game store just posted this on Facebook:
If you don't know yet you will very soon. The Indomitus Box which we all have been guessing would be betweet $220 and $300. Is going to be released for ONLY $199.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Does anyone else like the Necron terrain better without the rock/black stone/material covering all the mechanical techmo-metal-necron parts? I'm a bigger fan without the stone faces.
Warning Opinion ahead:
Spoiler:
To be honest, I'm getting really tired of Space Marines getting exceptions to everything. I don't have a problem making them powerful and tough, but it bugs me that they get exemptions from things that don't have exemptions (i.e. Mortal Wounds). "Hey everyone, new wound type that you get no saves against. Well, unless you're space marines, then you do."
I get that they're the protagonists of the saga, so I'd be fine with them getting an edge. The problem is when they make the edge such a slap in the face to everyone else. It causes everything to escalate and ramp up and then the scale of the game, in multiple areas, gets out of whack. Before anyone says, "Yeah, GW has always done that", I know. They've always done a lot of things.
punisher357 wrote: Does anyone else like the Necron terrain better without the rock/black stone/material covering all the mechanical techmo-metal-necron parts? I'm a bigger fan without the stone faces.
Warning Opinion ahead:
Spoiler:
To be honest, I'm getting really tired of Space Marines getting exceptions to everything. I don't have a problem making them powerful and tough, but it bugs me that they get exemptions from things that don't have exemptions (i.e. Mortal Wounds). "Hey everyone, new wound type that you get no saves against. Well, unless you're space marines, then you do."
I get that they're the protagonists of the saga, so I'd be fine with them getting an edge. The problem is when they make the edge such a slap in the face to everyone else. It causes everything to escalate and ramp up and then the scale of the game, in multiple areas, gets out of whack. Before anyone says, "Yeah, GW has always done that", I know. They've always done a lot of things.
Just stating my perspective. *Rant Over*
Opposite, I prefer the two rock covered ones. Might see I can trade the uncovered one for another of the other two.
punisher357 wrote: Does anyone else like the Necron terrain better without the rock/black stone/material covering all the mechanical techmo-metal-necron parts? I'm a bigger fan without the stone faces.
Warning Opinion ahead:
Spoiler:
To be honest, I'm getting really tired of Space Marines getting exceptions to everything. I don't have a problem making them powerful and tough, but it bugs me that they get exemptions from things that don't have exemptions (i.e. Mortal Wounds). "Hey everyone, new wound type that you get no saves against. Well, unless you're space marines, then you do."
I get that they're the protagonists of the saga, so I'd be fine with them getting an edge. The problem is when they make the edge such a slap in the face to everyone else. It causes everything to escalate and ramp up and then the scale of the game, in multiple areas, gets out of whack. Before anyone says, "Yeah, GW has always done that", I know. They've always done a lot of things.
Just stating my perspective. *Rant Over*
Plenty factions have access to special abilities that offer saves against Mortal Wounds. Are you new to 40K ? Have you skipped the whole 8th edition ?
Not Online!!! wrote: No, most tournies give out SEPARATE categories. In general a reward for the best painted army.
Now, you get potential up to 10 pts for painted armies in the OTHER category, aka playing the game.
SO basically the other side is still unafected, whilest the game side suddendly should get affected?
Because out of the 120 players that attended the tournament, about 5 or 6 actually care on best painted trophy, but about 80+ care about winning best general I'd reckon.
I can tell you concretely, this is not true at all.
Not everyone who submits to painting catagories plays in the tourney.
Nor are the events where people go to play in the biggest tournaments the most important places to get a nod for best painting. But GW has been running Golden Demon pretty much nonstop for decades.
Most big tourneys already have a minimum requirement for painted battle ready so I don't get why this is suddenly an issue. This is just codifying it somewhat and smaller tourneys are free to ignore this if they want.
It is also a rule in AoS and AoS players didn't get so salty about this.
because it makes live for WAAC Players who buy the flavour of the week of ebay for Seal Clubbing the local crowed in the FLGS so much harder if they Need to care about the paint Job as well
BaconCatBug wrote: If the rule requires the models to be Battle Ready, doesn't that mean if you paint them BETTER than Battle Ready, you'll not have painted them to a Battle Ready standard and lose the points?
Yes.
You guys are just the silliest people on the planet.
Alex Fennel once told Cruddace that his interpretation of the rules was wrong. You know, the guy who literally wrote the rules. People will, especially in tournaments, rules lawyer the feth out of rules.
BaconCatBug wrote: If the rule requires the models to be Battle Ready, doesn't that mean if you paint them BETTER than Battle Ready, you'll not have painted them to a Battle Ready standard and lose the points?
Yes.
You guys are just the silliest people on the planet.
Just grab the popcorn and enjoy the show.
This phase is always good for a fireworks show with every new edition. Six months from now, all the stuff people are losing their minds over will be forgotten, and new (potentially legitimate) issues will have taken their place.
But this particular show might be the all-time best. It's been fun to watch. Some of the tears are just delicious.
Wow, you're just kind of a gak aren't you?
ClockworkZion wrote: Looks like GW is on full damage control this morning and have released the free core rules.
yukishiro1 wrote: I'm not saying they don't. I'm saying there is no written rule we have with an example of a model with a 2+ save to begin with getting one of these storm shields. So it's silly to speculate that it will happen. For all we know they'll keep the old 3++ storm shields that don't improve armor save.
The whole thing is built on total speculation. I could say "what if wraith knights in 9th get a 2+ save and then their shield option improves it by 1! wraithtknights would have a 2++!"
If the moon was made out of cheese, it'd be tasty.
Again, we're working on what knowledge we have. Why would Terminator or Custodes Storm Shields have different rules to Primaris Storm Shields? It's possible that they might, but for now Halon's Razor suggests that all Storm Shields will have the same rules.
Its just as likely that Primaris Storm Shields will be different from Terminator or Custodes Storm Shields for the same reason Asartes Chainswords will be different from all other Chainswords.
We will have to see what GW does in the future. They haven't opened this can of worms yet.
Ghaz wrote: Now for something really important. My local game store just posted this on Facebook:
If you don't know yet you will very soon. The Indomitus Box which we all have been guessing would be betweet $220 and $300. Is going to be released for ONLY $199.
Ghaz wrote: Now for something really important. My local game store just posted this on Facebook:
If you don't know yet you will very soon. The Indomitus Box which we all have been guessing would be betweet $220 and $300. Is going to be released for ONLY $199.
punisher357 wrote: Does anyone else like the Necron terrain better without the rock/black stone/material covering all the mechanical techmo-metal-necron parts? I'm a bigger fan without the stone faces.
Warning Opinion ahead:
Spoiler:
To be honest, I'm getting really tired of Space Marines getting exceptions to everything. I don't have a problem making them powerful and tough, but it bugs me that they get exemptions from things that don't have exemptions (i.e. Mortal Wounds). "Hey everyone, new wound type that you get no saves against. Well, unless you're space marines, then you do."
I get that they're the protagonists of the saga, so I'd be fine with them getting an edge. The problem is when they make the edge such a slap in the face to everyone else. It causes everything to escalate and ramp up and then the scale of the game, in multiple areas, gets out of whack. Before anyone says, "Yeah, GW has always done that", I know. They've always done a lot of things.
Just stating my perspective. *Rant Over*
Plenty factions have access to special abilities that offer saves against Mortal Wounds. Are you new to 40K ? Have you skipped the whole 8th edition ?
Only Marines can drop on Turn 1.
Only Marines can reroll all hits, not just 1's.
Only Marines can block deepstrike units from being able to drop within charge range.
There are plenty of cases where Marines straight up ignore the game just because they can.
~4100
~1660
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