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They would get a lot further in that initiative if they were to sanction tournaments and offer prize support. If they had GW-sanctioned tournaments in the states where they used everything you just mentioned, it would give the US playerbase a taste of the game using those mechanics and more tournaments would start to follow suit.
Given the threads and polls here on dakka, I'm afraid to say you're flat wrong on this one. It was discussed, even suggested by ITC to use CA missions and the US scene dumped all over it because it was too random and didn't allow them to build a list to the missions/control how they scored.
Erm, that's not what I said. I didn't say ask people if they wanted to do it. I said do it. People will attend a GW event, regardless of ruleset. At said GW event, employ all of the aforementioned rules that ITC, etc. don't use. Give people a different perspective than ITC rules. Some will walk away enjoying it more.
You're right, you can't talk people into doing something different. You have to show them.
From what people were sating on here, the impression is that they honestly wouldn't go to it.
There are GW sanctioned GTs in the US, not many but they're there. The general consensus is that they don't matter all that much compared to adepticon, nova, and LVO. Also, GW does do prize support for a lot of the independent events.
Sidebar for pumaface, this isn't a repro health class teaching teenagers what a condom is, the US playerbase is fully aware of those mechanics and games, there are local and regional metas all over the country that don't use ITC rules at all. Michigan, for example, is almost entirely adepticon inspired rules until october when the Michigan GT happens. Having seen all of the available permutations of rulesets and missionpacks, North America has decided ITC is the most popular. It's not a question of people not knowing any other way to play, or even being forced to use ITC (as a bunch of whiners on this board would like you to believe) it's a simply the majority of people within attendence range of your event liking ITC.
People don't use powerlevel in the US because it sucks. It's broken down over time so that it's largely useless even for casual games. During Indexes and the first wave of codexes you could have perfectly fine games with PL, but too much stuff has changed since that era for any game where players are actually interested in winning to be worth playing.
Maelstrom is fine and sees actually a lot of use in local events and pick up games for creating a fast and unpredictable gaming environment. It's terrible for larger events because better players can lose hardcore to just drawing "grab the objective your opponent deployed triple plagueburst crawlers and 200 cultists on" over and over again. No one uses open war decks because every other game is over in less time than it takes to deploy. I watched two guys play 5 or 6 full open war games in like 45 minutes because they kept pulling win cons that were super easy for one guy to get.
Not for nothing, but there weren't actually RAW terrain rules in 8th. Infantry just got +1 save from the table sometimes. Honestly, the game is fine without the ITC ruins rule...but there's a reason every tournament in America was using ruins to block LoS and it's not because they all just really love Reece. Melee that didn't deepstrike was DoA without it, especially in the Ironhands era.
It's simple supply and demand. If the new GW missions and tournament packs, crusade rules, terrain rules, etc, are good enough, people will adopt them. If not, they'll stick to ITC(or whatever local meta your area uses). If PL becomes not utter gak again, people will use PL for their friendly games. As of now, even that isn't really possible.
I get that, but you also have to realize that because ITC has (had?) such a foothold, that local events were often difficult to break out of that format, even to try new things. If you wanted to suggest that you have Maelstrom tournament, that the local tournament organizers might dismiss the suggestion on the grounds that attendance might be low because they're not using ITC missions. So, instead, the new gets shelved and doesn't get the revisit it might deserve. Just because something is accepted by the majority doesn't mean it is infallible (or even the best). Other formats should have their day as well and, if they don't work well, should be retired. I guess ymmv, but in my experience, I saw very few formats outside of ITC.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/10 17:01:51
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Which, if you remember, wasn't for the points, but the art.
Because art is a much easier legal case. It would have been an easy win for GW if it had gone to court.
But with BS, are they going to claim they copyrighted numbers? Even the names aren't copyrighted but trademarked, which has different protections that wouldn't truly apply here.
EDIT: And it is a much harder case because BS has never published 40k data. It isn't like a forum in which what we post is published, it isn't truly a platform but an application, pure software. If the user wants to see 40k data on it that is on the users that created and loaded that data on BS. It would be like trying to sue a media player app because you can play pirated movies on it.
In a battle between big business and not, legality often does not matter, big business will win by dint of being able to fund legal proceedings and harass its target of ire non stop with little repercussions.
In a battle between big business and not, legality often does not matter, big business will win by dint of being able to fund legal proceedings and harass its target of ire non stop with little repercussions.
And risking losing and setting an unfavorable precedent?
People have been "predicting" GW going after BS since forever, and it has jet to materialize.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/10 17:13:00
I actually love the collectors one, but the price is ludicrous.
Cant believe that this collector rule book which only has a fancier cover then the rulebook in the indomitus box set is actually $10 US more then the box set! The last few collector rule books came with art books, coins, maps posters etc at least.
Wait what now? How much does this book cost? I thought it was just $65?
I actually love the collectors one, but the price is ludicrous.
Cant believe that this collector rule book which only has a fancier cover then the rulebook in the indomitus box set is actually $10 US more then the box set! The last few collector rule books came with art books, coins, maps posters etc at least.
Wait what now? How much does this book cost? I thought it was just $65?
I actually love the collectors one, but the price is ludicrous.
Cant believe that this collector rule book which only has a fancier cover then the rulebook in the indomitus box set is actually $10 US more then the box set! The last few collector rule books came with art books, coins, maps posters etc at least.
Wait what now? How much does this book cost? I thought it was just $65?
65 would be reqular edition. This is special edition with new cover and limited to 2000 copies. More of "i have tons of spare cash" symbol.
I think with GW's "Harrods of London" obsession with expensive, fluff-fat hardbacks, we are going to stick with just the codices and download rules, for open play.
I'd be very impressed if they released a slim paperback edition of the 9th edition rules tomorrow.
So the Necrons get a 12" Assault d3 S4 AP-3 D3 weapon...
And the Marines get either 2d6 S6 shots, or 2 S10 AP-2 Dd6 shots.
As well as firing a Heavy Bolter at literally everything in range.
Balanced!
Abject lunacy right there.
HAHAHA well orks get a mekshop. You can shoot two times with a unit in the next round if you forgo shooting in this round!
WHAT A TRADE! ...and with the smaller board sizes you can use it on a kitchen table! WHAAAGH!
If only it was that good! You get max shots with random shot weapons instead. Which is less than shoot twice. Oh and with blast you could get max twice...didn"t even think of it but 9th actually nerfs knight and ork terrain. Hard to do seeing opponent would happily give terrain for free if you "upgrade) your big walker with it.
So the Necrons get a 12" Assault d3 S4 AP-3 D3 weapon...
And the Marines get either 2d6 S6 shots, or 2 S10 AP-2 Dd6 shots.
As well as firing a Heavy Bolter at literally everything in range.
Balanced!
Abject lunacy right there.
While we don't have the stats or points cost yet, as it is, this is a pretty insane difference. That bunker better cost at least 3x what the convergence does.
Tyran wrote: Doesn't the Deathstorm drop pod basically has the same rule?
Yes, but this has both more weapons and more weapon choices than the Deathstorm's 2 types of shots and gives you an extra CP because it's a Fortification. I also doubt this bunker will only be T6 like the Deathstorm.
I guess the Deathstorm taking up a FA slot is worth something?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/10 17:52:44
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Tyran wrote: Doesn't the Deathstorm drop pod basically has the same rule?
Yes, but this has both more weapons and more weapon choices than the Deathstorm's 2 types of shots and gives you an extra CP because it's a Fortification. I also doubt this bunker will only be T6 like the Deathstorm.
I guess the Deathstorm taking up a FA slot is worth something?
It doesn't give extra CP, it refunds the CP it costs if all fortifications match your Warlord.
For about half a dead Marine a turn, per fortification. That's not that good.
And yes, points could solve it (nothing is INHERENTLY OP about either of these things) but given what GW's been doing with Marine stuff lately, I have a feeling it might be undercosted.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
The Necrons get 3d3 shots, since there are three of them shooting. Also it’s supposed to have some way to teleport your guys around, as well as being able to itself be moved via a character.
AduroT wrote: The Necrons get 3d3 shots, since there are three of them shooting. Also it’s supposed to have some way to teleport your guys around, as well as being able to itself be moved via a character.
The math was just done, it's about 1 1/2 dead marines per turn from all three.
The structure itself is what moves, it doesn't move your units around, and it requires a cryptek action to do so.
AduroT wrote: The Necrons get 3d3 shots, since there are three of them shooting. Also it’s supposed to have some way to teleport your guys around, as well as being able to itself be moved via a character.
Is it flat 3?
Or is it 1-3?
Re-reading the article, it does look like just 3.
But still, if all three are in range, you kill about one and two-thirds Marines.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
I really hate fortifications even conceptually and that thing gives me flashbacks to the bloody skyshield nonsense of 6e. Marines are already exasperating to play against with there "but wait, there's more" approach to rules; even if it's balanced I don't want to go through every sodding turn with my opponent figuring out everything that's in range of their death bunker, the inevitable argument over which armywide rules it benefits from, etc.
Also continuing the old trend of introducing completely needless, anti-fun randomness by having D3 shots on the Necron block. The shooting's not even good against anything, even assuming BS3+ like most Necron stuff, you're maybe killing an intercessor if you're really lucky. So, xenos get nothing of worth, marines get something with a thousand shots which is strictly better than everything else. Again. Wonderful, what a tremendous amount of fun.
Wait, it’s just the Necron fortification that can be moved, it’s not *for* teleporting other units? That’s disappointing given what I was led to believe.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/10 18:01:13
Tyran wrote: Doesn't the Deathstorm drop pod basically has the same rule?
On exceptionally short range guns. The deathstorm can generally plink a cluster, this bunker is poised to shoot an entire army each turn.
I highly doubt it will have 36" range bolters.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sasori wrote: The structure itself is what moves, it doesn't move your units around, and it requires a cryptek action to do so.
It wouldn't be shocking that they didn't give all the rules out, it could well have more.
Maybe, but the teleporting units thing was always more of a hope. The original article talked about moving the Starstele itself, so this seems to just confirm that.
AduroT wrote: The Necrons get 3d3 shots, since there are three of them shooting. Also it’s supposed to have some way to teleport your guys around, as well as being able to itself be moved via a character.
The math was just done, it's about 1 1/2 dead marines per turn from all three.
1.5 marines, aggressors, eliminators, primaris - yes. Averages are also one thing. Ignoring a model that CAN wipe your whole unit of Aggressors or Eliminators is another.
Death Guard 5100 pts.
Daemons 3000 pts.
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