40k 9th edition, : App released page 413

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**AduroT**

As long as were arguing about if it is or is not a starter set, just remember, it’s not 9th edition, it’s New 40k.

**Aash**

Overread wrote:
Arbitrator wrote:
There will absolutely be a new Starter Set, they're just spreading the releases out a bit so they don't lose a chunk of initial sales to, "Umm, gee whizz, I sure did spend a lot this month and the Starter will be around three years so I'll wait."

See this sort of tells me why GW might move away from starter sets toward launch sets.

You're an experienced current GW customer. In theory you are NOT supposed to be the target audience for a starter set for the game. However over the years GW has put more and more models into the sets and made the deal greater and greater to the point where its such a good deal that they are cleaning up a lot of sales, not from new gamer,s but from current ones.

I think this idea of a launch set is exactly pandering to that specific market; the deal market. They aren't after a starter they just want lots of models at a lower price.

Meanwhile why keep going with that model? The big discount isn't necessarily drawing in new customers, its just feeding existing ones who are already part of the system and would likely buy all those models, given time, at full retail price. So why not do shorter term discount boxes to keep them mostly happy, but then focus actual beginners and new gamers into the Getting Started sets. GW already renamed them from Battalions of old into the Getting Started sets. They shifted content to make most (all?) playable as a basic force out of the box.

Sure established gamers get them too, but the focus is now on the entire range not just on two specific armies.

I'd wager we might see no starter for 9th instead we might see a new pair of Getting Started sets for Necron and Primaris/marines and then a bundle box with big rulebook, dice, rulers etc... The Newbie now pays as much for an old starter set as they do for their own custom starting point. Giving them the generic rules/dice/rulers etc.. pack alongside a Getting Started set of their choice.

I'm thinking along these lines too. I doubt we'll see a "starter set" similar to Dark Imperium, I do expect to see equivalents of No Know Fear and and First Strike released (SM vs necrons), or at least the same boxes (SM vs DG) repackaged for 9th - removing 8th ed core rules and including the 9th core rules instead. Not including core rules at all is possible though as they are free to download.

**Overread**

Aash wrote:

I'm thinking along these lines too. I doubt we'll see a "starter set" similar to Dark Imperium, I do expect to see equivalents of No Know Fear and and First Strike released (SM vs necrons), or at least the same boxes (SM vs DG) repackaged for 9th - removing 8th ed core rules and including the 9th core rules instead. Not including core rules at all is possible though as they are free to download.

I can't see GW not wanting to push the Big Rulebook on new gamers.
Much like how GW won't ever drop codex/battletomes either.

One thing GW realised early and has got right for years is that rules are only part of the experience and that many get really attached to the lore of the game and their faction(s). At the same time they know that lore as an optional component will only touch a very small minority of the gamer market. So you bundle rules with the lore.

The artwork, stories, background are all part of the complete package that GW sells to new gamers and to established ones. They know that many won't hunt down black library novels and the like to read; so they make sure its in the core components of the game to get started with. It's a huge hook that keeps many around, even some of the die hard "I hate the rules" people still hang around because they love their army lore and still enjoy the game/storytelling/battling side of things even if they hate the rules.

If anything having the core book as a loss leader is a good thing for GW; its worth bundling it up and selling it at a loss or at cost inside bundles of other stuff because they know its part of what helps turn people into loyal long term customers.

**Voss**

AduroT wrote:
As long as were arguing about if it is or is not a starter set, just remember, it’s not 9th edition, it’s New 40k.

That's nothing new. GW stopped 'officially' numbering editions a few years back- 7th and 8th were never referred to by GW that way either. The former being all Forge the Narrative and gak instead.

On the other hand, while they don't call this 9th, for the most part, it is called the New Edition repeatedly. And Best, as well.

**stratigo**

WhiteDog wrote:
I would bet you a hundred bucks they get a fantastic return

Everything is relative. This box will be sold at 3 or 4 time its price as separated boxes.

I suspect the RoI will be much higher for this box than the collective RoI of its components parceled out.

**ClockworkZion**

When they did the announcement stream for 9th I am almost positive that Stu Black called it 9th.

**Jidmah**

There also is the hilarious issue with foreign companies trying to dodge naming any international product "Nine" because it sounds the same as the German "No"

**stratigo**

Overread wrote:
Arbitrator wrote:
There will absolutely be a new Starter Set, they're just spreading the releases out a bit so they don't lose a chunk of initial sales to, "Umm, gee whizz, I sure did spend a lot this month and the Starter will be around three years so I'll wait."

See this sort of tells me why GW might move away from starter sets toward launch sets.

You're an experienced current GW customer. In theory you are NOT supposed to be the target audience for a starter set for the game. However over the years GW has put more and more models into the sets and made the deal greater and greater to the point where its such a good deal that they are cleaning up a lot of sales, not from new gamer,s but from current ones.

I think this idea of a launch set is exactly pandering to that specific market; the deal market. They aren't after a starter they just want lots of models at a lower price.

Meanwhile why keep going with that model? The big discount isn't necessarily drawing in new customers, its just feeding existing ones who are already part of the system and would likely buy all those models, given time, at full retail price. So why not do shorter term discount boxes to keep them mostly happy, but then focus actual beginners and new gamers into the Getting Started sets. GW already renamed them from Battalions of old into the Getting Started sets. They shifted content to make most (all?) playable as a basic force out of the box.

Sure established gamers get them too, but the focus is now on the entire range not just on two specific armies.

I'd wager we might see no starter for 9th instead we might see a new pair of Getting Started sets for Necron and Primaris/marines and then a bundle box with big rulebook, dice, rulers etc... The Newbie now pays as much for an old starter set as they do for their own custom starting point. Giving them the generic rules/dice/rulers etc.. pack alongside a Getting Started set of their choice.

This post itself reveals the trick of psychology working

"Deals greater and greater"

Only relative to more and more expensive base product. They keep raising box prices, your brain goes "Wow the deals are so good" comparing them to the bundles. Which are also raising in price, somewhat slower.

**JohnnyHell**

ClockworkZion wrote:
When they did the announcement stream for 9th I am almost positive that Stu Black called it 9th.

Various staffers have called it 9th, WHC has articles calling it 9th (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/23/the-big-warhammer-40000-previewgw-homepage-post-1/ for example). It’s not the blanket avoidance of numbering of 8th.

**General Kroll**

Overread wrote:
Aash wrote:

I'm thinking along these lines too. I doubt we'll see a "starter set" similar to Dark Imperium, I do expect to see equivalents of No Know Fear and and First Strike released (SM vs necrons), or at least the same boxes (SM vs DG) repackaged for 9th - removing 8th ed core rules and including the 9th core rules instead. Not including core rules at all is possible though as they are free to download.

I can't see GW not wanting to push the Big Rulebook on new gamers.
Much like how GW won't ever drop codex/battletomes either.

One thing GW realised early and has got right for years is that rules are only part of the experience and that many get really attached to the lore of the game and their faction(s). At the same time they know that lore as an optional component will only touch a very small minority of the gamer market. So you bundle rules with the lore.

The artwork, stories, background are all part of the complete package that GW sells to new gamers and to established ones. They know that many won't hunt down black library novels and the like to read; so they make sure its in the core components of the game to get started with. It's a huge hook that keeps many around, even some of the die hard "I hate the rules" people still hang around because they love their army lore and still enjoy the game/storytelling/battling side of things even if they hate the rules.

If anything having the core book as a loss leader is a good thing for GW; its worth bundling it up and selling it at a loss or at cost inside bundles of other stuff because they know its part of what helps turn people into loyal long term customers.

Yeah, all those full colour pictures of beautifully painted models aren’t just in the core book just to look nice. They are there to tempt people into buying the models. As a newbie coming into the hobby the core book is like a gateway to a new world of lore, art, models etc. I’d say it’s one of their most important marketing tools. I agree with you that we might be seeing a push towards selling newbies start collecting sets, or one of the smaller starter sets like Know No Fear. Things like Dark Imperium and Dark Vengeance are quite big buy ins for someone looking to get into the hobby. A smaller set with a smaller price tag would be a great idea imo, I was really surprised that KNF and First Strike didn’t end up in some of the bigger toy shops like Smiths Toys R Us (before their Demise) etc. But that’s a whole different topic I guess.

If I were GW I’d bundle up a load of the start collecting boxes with new rule books, and sell them for maybe ten quid more than the current start collecting price. They’d be bought by newbies and established players alike.

**Overread**

stratigo wrote:

This post itself reveals the trick of psychology working

"Deals greater and greater"

Only relative to more and more expensive base product. They keep raising box prices, your brain goes "Wow the deals are so good" comparing them to the bundles. Which are also raising in price, somewhat slower.

Not really go back and look at the content of some earlier starter sets.

Three troop boxes for Dark Eldar; two and a speeder for the Marines.

And sure the base prices have gone up, but the deal itself is still a solid deal based on CURRENT pricing. Sure if we compare to prices in the past it might not be as good a deal; but we can't buy 2020 models at 1990 prices anywhere. So its a moot point to compare backward in terms of talking about sale deals because there's no provision of new legal stock being sold at those old prices. It's an interesting point of academia, but nothing more.

**Daedalus81**

stratigo wrote:

This post itself reveals the trick of psychology working

"Deals greater and greater"

Only relative to more and more expensive base product. They keep raising box prices, your brain goes "Wow the deals are so good" comparing them to the bundles. Which are also raising in price, somewhat slower.

We're well aware of price anchoring.

Now find me $135 of models in that quantity and quality.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

GW’s boxed sets have gone up in price, that’s true.

If memory serves, 2nd Ed was £40. It came with 20 Tactical Marines (three part models), and a quantity of monopose Ork Boyz, Grots. Oh and a single flat cardboard Ork Dreadnought.

24 or so years later, we see Indomitus. Not only significantly more models, but ones of objectively better quality, intricacy and variety.

Some do stick out as odd (Blood of the Phoenix in particular), but to simply observe prices have gone up, without any regard to a possible matching increase in quality and or value isn’t exactly an honest stance, is it?

**Mixzremixzd**

How long did it take before the SOB second wave hit preorders? That may or may not be an indication of when to expect the second wave of Necron releases that were directly and indirectly teased, as well as multi-part sculpts for the Overlord, Skorpekh, Codex etc.

**BrotherGecko**

Equilibrium Games in CA seems to have taken several boxes and is selling them by sprue on eBay. If pre-order was yesterday how does this store have boxes to physically sell?

**MajorWesJanson**

I'm expecting that some of the sprues like the warriors, intercessors, and bikes etb are designed so they can use those sprues in future bundles and getting started with less cannibalizing sales of the multipart versions.

**Kanluwen**

BrotherGecko wrote:
Equilibrium Games in CA seems to have taken several boxes and is selling them by sprue on eBay. If pre-order was yesterday how does this store have boxes to physically sell?

They don't. They're cannibalizing stock that they were getting for their store or that they purchased specifically for this purpose.

**Overread**

BrotherGecko wrote:
Equilibrium Games in CA seems to have taken several boxes and is selling them by sprue on eBay. If pre-order was yesterday how does this store have boxes to physically sell?

They don't, its a presale of the split contents with sprue photos from the net most likely.
Far as I know GW hasn't yet sent out stock for the game and I don't think they generally do until the week of release. A two week pre order might mean they are shipping some in week one but they generally have no issue doing it all inside a single week typically.

**stratigo**

Daedalus81 wrote:
stratigo wrote:

This post itself reveals the trick of psychology working

"Deals greater and greater"

Only relative to more and more expensive base product. They keep raising box prices, your brain goes "Wow the deals are so good" comparing them to the bundles. Which are also raising in price, somewhat slower.

We're well aware of price anchoring.

Now find me $135 of models in that quantity and quality.

Indomitus isn't a 135 dollars though?

**BrotherGecko**

Kanluwen wrote:
BrotherGecko wrote:
Equilibrium Games in CA seems to have taken several boxes and is selling them by sprue on eBay. If pre-order was yesterday how does this store have boxes to physically sell?

They don't. They're cannibalizing stock that they were getting for their store or that they purchased specifically for this purpose.

If they are on the level then what they are asking looks reasonable for those looking for stuff.

**ERJAK**

stratigo wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
stratigo wrote:

This post itself reveals the trick of psychology working

"Deals greater and greater"

Only relative to more and more expensive base product. They keep raising box prices, your brain goes "Wow the deals are so good" comparing them to the bundles. Which are also raising in price, somewhat slower.

We're well aware of price anchoring.

Now find me $135 of models in that quantity and quality.

Indomitus isn't a 135 dollars though?

BRB is in box. He's saying that the BRB is 65$ of the boxes price, which isn't totally true, but neither is the 200$ number for smart buyers.

**SamusDrake**

tneva82 wrote:
It is not. Starter set comes later. Starter sets have all you need to play. This does not. Starter sets aren't limited in stock. This is.

Starter set is what comes later. Why arque against gw? You lose. Automatically.

What are you talking about? This set contains the full rule book, two armies and the rules to field them! Aside from the lack of a ruler and D6 dice - which anybody will highly likely have to hand and if not would barely cost £3 for both - there is nothing else players require for a full game of 40K.

Whether its limited or not, this box set is still a starter set because it functions as such.

Why argue against simple logic? You lose. Automatically.

**Geifer**

Mixzremixzd wrote:
How long did it take before the SOB second wave hit preorders? That may or may not be an indication of when to expect the second wave of Necron releases that were directly and indirectly teased, as well as multi-part sculpts for the Overlord, Skorpekh, Codex etc.

The Sisters box was late in November, the codex and first individual boxes mid January, and the remaining boxes in mid March.

It needs to be said that the Sisters release wasn't exactly typical and GW did experiment with different release plans for different armies in the last year. I wouldn't want to speculate on how likely it is that the start of 9th edition aligns with that particular release.

**Sterling191**

SamusDrake wrote:

What are you talking about? This set contains the full rule book, two armies and the rules to field them! Aside from the lack of a ruler and D6 dice - which anybody will highly likely have to hand and if not would barely cost £3 for both - there is nothing else players require for a full game of 40K.

Incorrect. The rule booklet for the models Indomitus requires both the Necron and Marine codices to function. This isnt for a moment an unbox and play set.

**Daedalus81**

ERJAK wrote:

BRB is in box. He's saying that the BRB is 65$ of the boxes price, which isn't totally true, but neither is the 200$ number for smart buyers.

I can purchase the book separately, but not the models. If I wanted the BRB (I do) then the nominal value of the models is $135.

Now there will be a glut of BRBs on eBay. Maybe $40 to $45? The standalone book is going for $55. So, $155 tops for the models.

**Platuan4th**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
GW’s boxed sets have gone up in price, that’s true.

If memory serves, 2nd Ed was £40. It came with 20 Tactical Marines (three part models), and a quantity of monopose Ork Boyz, Grots. Oh and a single flat cardboard Ork Dreadnought.

24 or so years later, we see Indomitus. Not only significantly more models, but ones of objectively better quality, intricacy and variety.

Some do stick out as odd (Blood of the Phoenix in particular), but to simply observe prices have gone up, without any regard to a possible matching increase in quality and or value isn’t exactly an honest stance, is it?

Point of order: Indomitus has 19 LESS models than 2nd Edition: 20 Tac Marines, 20 Goffs, 40 Gretchin for 80 models vs Indomitus' 61.

**Kanluwen**

SamusDrake wrote:

What are you talking about? This set contains the full rule book, two armies and the rules to field them! Aside from the lack of a ruler and D6 dice - which anybody will highly likely have to hand and if not would barely cost £3 for both - there is nothing else players require for a full game of 40K.

Whether its limited or not, this box set is still a starter set because it functions as such.

Why argue against simple logic? You lose. Automatically.

Games Workshop classified it as a "Battle Box".

Battle Boxes are always a way for people to start, but this is the first time(for AoS or 40k) that it has included the full rulebook that I can think of. GW doesn't consider Battle Boxes to be starter products though.

**SamusDrake**

Sterling191 wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:

What are you talking about? This set contains the full rule book, two armies and the rules to field them! Aside from the lack of a ruler and D6 dice - which anybody will highly likely have to hand and if not would barely cost £3 for both - there is nothing else players require for a full game of 40K.

Incorrect. The rule booklet for the models Indomitus requires both the Necron and Marine codices to function. This isnt for a moment an unbox and play set.

If memory serves, none of the 8th edition starter sets included neither the Marine and Death Guard codices. They were basically datasheets, so this doesn't seem to be any different.

**stratigo**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
GW’s boxed sets have gone up in price, that’s true.

If memory serves, 2nd Ed was £40. It came with 20 Tactical Marines (three part models), and a quantity of monopose Ork Boyz, Grots. Oh and a single flat cardboard Ork Dreadnought.

24 or so years later, we see Indomitus. Not only significantly more models, but ones of objectively better quality, intricacy and variety.

Some do stick out as odd (Blood of the Phoenix in particular), but to simply observe prices have gone up, without any regard to a possible matching increase in quality and or value isn’t exactly an honest stance, is it?

There's a point where quality does become subjective. Especially considering there are plenty of decade plus models still in the range.

But now I'm stuck trying to google the price of a battalion box in the early 2000s. And, wow, this is harder than I expected. Probably because battalions were a fantasy thing and 40k used different terminology.

But okay, lets see. Space wolves. 90 bucks would net you... 10 grey hunters, 10 blood claws, 3 bikes, and a rhino. Plus those old corner buildings. Savings over the individual kits? Much lower. Modern equivalent.... 10 tacs, a dread, 1 character. Pretty much half of the old box. Same price. I can tell you, in 15 years, inflation was not 100 percent (it's roughly 30 percent).

this is their deal bundles too. The individual kits are, as I am entirely sure you know, much, much worse.

And this is already based off a rather expensive hobby.

**Kanluwen**

Sterling191 wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:

What are you talking about? This set contains the full rule book, two armies and the rules to field them! Aside from the lack of a ruler and D6 dice - which anybody will highly likely have to hand and if not would barely cost £3 for both - there is nothing else players require for a full game of 40K.

Incorrect. The rule booklet for the models Indomitus requires both the Necron and Marine codices to function. This isnt for a moment an unbox and play set.

"Edge of Silence" contains the rules for the units in the box.

1x 24-page campaign booklet – The Edge of Silence: This supplementary booklet is exclusive to the Indomitus set and tells you the story of what befell the vanguard forces of the Indomitus Crusade’s Battle Group Kallides when they ventured into the ominous, seemingly abandoned region known as Pariah Nexus. The booklet also includes 18 datasheets that feature all of the rules that enable you to field the stunning miniatures in the box in a game of Warhammer 40,000.

This is what they did for Chaos Marines and Vanguard Primaris with Shadowspear.