Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.

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**Aza'Gorod**

Insectum7 wrote:
MinscS2 wrote:
\
(The Immortal has a vastly better gun than even an Intercessor though.)

At the moment the Intercessor gun can fire twice at 30" and at AP-2 for most of the game.

Fair point, though we don't know about our canticles (whatever they are called) which are meant to be doctrine equivalents as far as I can recall

**Crusaderobr**

The biggest weakness of the space marine bolter or bolt rifle is the str 4, against T5 they need 5+ to wound. Immortal guns being str 5 is vastly superior.

**AnomanderRake**

Crusaderobr wrote:
The biggest weakness of the space marine bolter or bolt rifle is the str 4, against T5 they need 5+ to wound. Immortal guns being str 5 is vastly superior.

...Against T5 and T8. They're not the most common Toughness values around.

**Aza'Gorod**

AnomanderRake wrote:
Crusaderobr wrote:
The biggest weakness of the space marine bolter or bolt rifle is the str 4, against T5 they need 5+ to wound. Immortal guns being str 5 is vastly superior.

...Against T5 and T8. They're not the most common Toughness values around.

Besides crypteks, warriors and scarabs I dont think any of our units are T4 anymore, all of our units are at least T5 now

**Daedalus81**

Insectum7 wrote:
MinscS2 wrote:
\
(The Immortal has a vastly better gun than even an Intercessor though.)

At the moment the Intercessor gun can fire twice at 30" and at AP-2 for most of the game.

Turns 2 and 3 is not most of the game...

**puree**

AnomanderRake wrote:
Crusaderobr wrote:
The biggest weakness of the space marine bolter or bolt rifle is the str 4, against T5 they need 5+ to wound. Immortal guns being str 5 is vastly superior.

...Against T5 and T8. They're not the most common Toughness values around.

And T4 which is very common.

In an immortal vs marine shoot out wounding twice as often is pretty big.

OK not sure that S4 is 'big' weakness, but S5 is a lot better on a T5 model.

**AnomanderRake**

puree wrote:
AnomanderRake wrote:
Crusaderobr wrote:
The biggest weakness of the space marine bolter or bolt rifle is the str 4, against T5 they need 5+ to wound. Immortal guns being str 5 is vastly superior.

...Against T5 and T8. They're not the most common Toughness values around.

And T4 which is very common.

In an immortal vs marine shoot out wounding twice as often is pretty big.

OK not sure that S4 is 'big' weakness, but S5 is a lot better on a T5 model.

And T4, yes, but a large percentage of the T4 infantry in the game are getting an extra wound.

**Manous**

The new immortals are quite solid.

But the 24" gauss gun of the warrior could be bit of a downer if we consider the possible 30" Bolter (old)marines and sisters "may" get.

i am referring to the leaked company command squad datasheet which includes a 30" boltgun profile which "may" turn out to be a new boltgun profile or just an upgraded veteran version of the regular boltgun

**Aza'Gorod**

Manous wrote:
The new immortals are quite solid.

But the 24" gauss gun of the warrior could be bit of a downer if we consider the possible 30" Bolter (old)marines and sisters "may" get.

i am referring to the leaked company command squad datasheet which includes a 30" boltgun profile which "may" turn out to be a new boltgun profile or just an upgraded veteran version of the regular boltgun

I hope its a veteran version, 30" boltguns just makes it that bit harder to field warriors as unless you advance you cant get into range before they can fire at you

**Manous**

Aza'Gorod wrote:
Manous wrote:
The new immortals are quite solid.

But the 24" gauss gun of the warrior could be bit of a downer if we consider the possible 30" Bolter (old)marines and sisters "may" get.

i am referring to the leaked company command squad datasheet which includes a 30" boltgun profile which "may" turn out to be a new boltgun profile or just an upgraded veteran version of the regular boltgun

I hope its a veteran version, 30" boltguns just makes it that bit harder to field warriors as unless you advance you cant get into range before they can fire at you

exactly my thoughts

we may have better ap and be a bit cheaper but we are slower for the most time and the lack of range means they have an easier time to shoot us before we can.

**IHateNids**

Manous wrote:
Aza'Gorod wrote:
Manous wrote:
The new immortals are quite solid.

But the 24" gauss gun of the warrior could be bit of a downer if we consider the possible 30" Bolter (old)marines and sisters "may" get.

i am referring to the leaked company command squad datasheet which includes a 30" boltgun profile which "may" turn out to be a new boltgun profile or just an upgraded veteran version of the regular boltgun

I hope its a veteran version, 30" boltguns just makes it that bit harder to field warriors as unless you advance you cant get into range before they can fire at you

exactly my thoughts

we may have better ap and be a bit cheaper but we are slower for the most time and the lack of range means they have an easier time to shoot us before we can.

Sternguard alwqays had 30" bolters, they just never see the tabletop so everyone has forgotten.

**Manous**

.

**IHateNids**

As far as I remember, "Sternguard" was merely a title for an all-shooty Veteran unit, same with Vanguard for all-stabby....

But I may be wrong, it's been a while since I read anything properly

**Manous**

IHateNids wrote:
As far as I remember, "Sternguard" was merely a title for an all-shooty Veteran unit, same with Vanguard for all-stabby....

But I may be wrong, it's been a while since I read anything properly

Hate to say it. But you are wrong ^^

There are the following oldmarine veteran datasheets in the marine codex
(which actually include the word "veteran" so no termis etc)

Vanguard Veterans -- stabby
Sternguard Veterand -- shooty
Company Veterans -- can do both and pick more or less any equipment they want with the exception of some thing (like the 30" special issue boltgun)
Tyrannic war Veterans (Ultramarines only i think?)

**Slayer-Fan123**

Company Vets are also supposed to have Bodyguard rules as well, so that's a major difference

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I need any leak for Sternguard. Please. Anything. I need it so bad.

**IHateNids**

Manous wrote:
IHateNids wrote:
As far as I remember, "Sternguard" was merely a title for an all-shooty Veteran unit, same with Vanguard for all-stabby....

But I may be wrong, it's been a while since I read anything properly

Hate to say it. But you are wrong ^^

There are the following oldmarine veteran datasheets in the marine codex
(which actually include the word "veteran" so no termis etc)

Vanguard Veterans -- stabby
Sternguard Veterand -- shooty
Company Veterans -- can do both and pick more or less any equipment they want with the exception of some thing (like the 30" special issue boltgun)
Tyrannic war Veterans (Ultramarines only i think?)

Fair enough, I stand, or rather reanimate, corrected.

I did not know about the Company Veterans. Maybe they're getting the Special Issue Bolters now?

**AnomanderRake**

IHateNids wrote:
...I did not know about the Company Veterans. Maybe they're getting the Special Issue Bolters now?

It'll be pretty odd, given that the Sternguard with SIA were only in the 5e book in the first place to be the Deathwatch, and the Deathwatch have not only been released as their own army but are getting rolled back into the main SM book now.

**Insectum7**

AnomanderRake wrote:
IHateNids wrote:
...I did not know about the Company Veterans. Maybe they're getting the Special Issue Bolters now?

It'll be pretty odd, given that the Sternguard with SIA were only in the 5e book in the first place to be the Deathwatch, and the Deathwatch have not only been released as their own army but are getting rolled back into the main SM book now.

Sternguard were basically lifted from the Deathwatch rules from 3rd-4th Edition, yeah. Prior to Sternguard there were still Command Squads and Veteran Squads though. Veterans were basically a Tactical Squad with extra Attacks and Ld., and in 4ht could get one of several Veteran Abilities.

**BrianDavion**

So I got an order of blood claws in today, no new box alas. I was hoping to get to leak some rules on stuff like what, if anything, would become of frost weapons

**Kharne the Befriender**

Saw the repackaged cryptek with Canoptek Cloak at my flgs today, didn't buy it but I did see the statline, which didn't change, but what struck me is that the datasheet said 'Technomancer' not Cryptek, even though it was written on the package

**Khorzain**

Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Saw the repackaged cryptek with Canoptek Cloak at my flgs today, didn't buy it but I did see the statline, which didn't change, but what struck me is that the datasheet said 'Technomancer' not Cryptek, even though it was written on the package

It'd be a little weird, but I wonder if they're changing the name to Technomancer to differentiate it from the <Cryptek> keyword, which is shared by Plasmancers and a few named characters.

**Voss**

Khorzain wrote:
Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Saw the repackaged cryptek with Canoptek Cloak at my flgs today, didn't buy it but I did see the statline, which didn't change, but what struck me is that the datasheet said 'Technomancer' not Cryptek, even though it was written on the package

It'd be a little weird, but I wonder if they're changing the name to Technomancer to differentiate it from the <Cryptek> keyword, which is shared by Plasmancers and a few named characters.

Probably that. Plasmancer has 'Cryptek' and 'Plasmancer' keywords, while the technomancer ability is +1 RP rolls that the current codex Crypteks have (and they can chose between the cloak or chronometron)
So both are crypteks, but plasmancers are the MW zappy ones and technomancers are the repair ones.

**Claas**

Voss wrote:
Sumilidon wrote:
Comparing tacticals to immortals, the wounds side is not such an issue if they are the same points. The Immortals weapon is much better, toughness 5 makes a real difference and assuming reanimation protocols stay the same - id rather have all the above instead of 2 wounds.

T5 sometimes makes a difference. They don't care about the heavy bolter change, but plasma still leaves them as goo.

RP staying the same would be a major problem. Immortal squads are too small for RP to matter as its written now- its simply too easy to wipe the unit off the board. T5 will require more gun at S4 & 5, but there is enough other stuff out there in quantity that if the opponent wants to wipe out the unit, they can. A lot of the DS suicide units that people used to use (with lots of special weapons, combi-weapons or whatever) still work just fine for wiping out immortals- the math doesn't change at all for a Stormtrooper or Chaos terminator drop, for example.

Don't get me wrong, I like the return of T5. But RP has to change.

I would just say if your opponent is firing his plasma or using an alpha strike unit on immortals then that is a win for Necron Players.

**Voss**

Why? Immortals are a backbone unit, and can happily camp objectives with ObSec.

They should be a pretty high target priority to start with, and they've tended to be small units that can easily be wiped out (a feature that 9th edition base rules magnify).

**Justyn**

So I got an order of blood claws in today, no new box alas. I was hoping to get to leak some rules on stuff like what, if anything, would become of frost weapons.

At 10 pts each they should be d2, 1d3d or something else. +1 str over already +1str Power Weapons are not worth another 5 points.

**unitled**

Random early morning thought... with Melta damage at D6+2 rather than D6 (rolling 2, picking highest), if Quantum Shielding stays the same it just got a bit better against it: average of 1.11 damage as opposed to 1.56.

**vict0988**

unitled wrote:
Random early morning thought... with Melta damage at D6+2 rather than D6 (rolling 2, picking highest), if Quantum Shielding stays the same it just got a bit better against it: average of 1.11 damage as opposed to 1.56.

Much, much better considering modern melta was choose one and not discard the lowest. But with re-roll nerf QS will still generally be a bit weaker.

**BrianDavion**

unitled wrote:
Random early morning thought... with Melta damage at D6+2 rather than D6 (rolling 2, picking highest), if Quantum Shielding stays the same it just got a bit better against it: average of 1.11 damage as opposed to 1.56.

this could make life difficult for sisters of battle who don't have any anti tank options other then melta and exorcists

**Aza'Gorod**

unitled wrote:
Random early morning thought... with Melta damage at D6+2 rather than D6 (rolling 2, picking highest), if Quantum Shielding stays the same it just got a bit better against it: average of 1.11 damage as opposed to 1.56.

Doesn't it effectively make them min damage 3 so we always have a 1/3 chance to ignore them with quantum shielding, but that's if they roll a 1. When they roll a 5/6 you dont even need to roll as thats at least 7 damage and if they roll any 4s you can just use quantum deflection.

This is assuming of course that they all stay the same

**Mr Morden**

BrianDavion wrote:
unitled wrote:
Random early morning thought... with Melta damage at D6+2 rather than D6 (rolling 2, picking highest), if Quantum Shielding stays the same it just got a bit better against it: average of 1.11 damage as opposed to 1.56.

this could make life difficult for sisters of battle who don't have any anti tank options other then melta and exorcists

low Miracle dice helps a bit here?