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Question for those of you that played crons back when we had cryptek conclaves, what exactly did Harbingers of Despair do?

We have Harbingers of Destruction in the form of Plasmancers that are offensive

We have Technomancers in the form of our normal crypteks which are more defensive in nature

I just wonder what kind of role the Harbingers of Despair might fill

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Question for those of you that played crons back when we had cryptek conclaves, what exactly did Harbingers of Despair do?

We have Harbingers of Destruction in the form of Plasmancers that are offensive

We have Technomancers in the form of our normal crypteks which are more defensive in nature

I just wonder what kind of role the Harbingers of Despair might fill

Harbingers of Despair did attacks against Morale and Leadership, plus they were the users of the Veil of Darkness, where they could teleport units around.

There was also Harbingers of Destruction, Eterrnity, The Storm, and Transmogrification.

Yeah, they weren't necessarily balanced, but at least you could tell they were supposed to each perform a role.

So would a cryptek unit that affects moral b useful in an army? Perhaps in an Elite slot?

The problem I see is that it would have to be pretty good to be competitive in any slot, given the amount of options we have

 Lord Clinto wrote:

 argonak wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
I'm just going to suspect that Reanimation Protocols are improved enough that they decided 2 W Immortals was too durable. Lord knows it won't take much to improve RP over its current level of usefulness.

What if they just changed it to a feel no pain sort of thing? Not quite fit the theme, but at least the "just focus fire on a unit to get rid of it so it can't reanimate" thing would go away.

I wouldn't mind seeing a 6+++, not replacing RP but in addition. I think it would fit the "unfeeling, crumbling robot" niche Necrons seem to be moving towards, if you are going by the Indominus models.

Additionally wouldn't it be nice to have the ability to field a Phaeron (ala Chapter Master Strat); can dream I guess.

With all the multi damage out there a 6+++ is just not that great. It is something vs other necrons (since we cant seem to get reliable multi damage weapons...looking at you Emnitic) but overall there is so much multi damage.

 Insectum7 wrote:
There was also Harbingers of Destruction, Eterrnity, The Storm, and Transmogrification.

The Harbinger of Destruction was the Plasmancer. The others (in the order already listed) are the Chronomancer and the Ethermancer. The Harbinger of Transmogrification didn't have a specific name listed but could be a Geomancer or Alchemist given the description.

Are the new Warriors any good (alternate gun choice I mean).

Has anyone built these and perhaps converted with Deathmarks/Immortals weapons on the bodies? Wondering if they match up well.
(I did this with the old warrior kit and Deathmarks guns/heads, but could do with slightly bigger bodies, not sure if the new ones are)

 Lysenis wrote:

With all the multi damage out there a 6+++ is just not that great. It is something vs other necrons (since we cant seem to get reliable multi damage weapons...looking at you Emnitic) but overall there is so much multi damage.

Depends on what model. On W1 immortal sure. On 2 wound lychguard? Gives essentially 30% chance to require taking another shot to kill one. On W3 wraith? Even 6+++ will hinder any dam3 weapon a lot making it about 43% chance you need another hit past save to finish wraith.

Danny76 wrote:
Are the new Warriors any good (alternate gun choice I mean).

Has anyone built these and perhaps converted with Deathmarks/Immortals weapons on the bodies? Wondering if they match up well.
(I did this with the old warrior kit and Deathmarks guns/heads, but could do with slightly bigger bodies, not sure if the new ones are)

The new bodies are significantly smaller (not a lot shorter, though they're squatting less, but a lot less bulky)- they don't match up well. They'd actually be worse than the old ones for this.

The new gun seems dynasty dependent.

Sautehk dynasty gives 2 shots at their full range of 14" (or 18" for other guns), which utterly changes how the unit works. Particularly if they're coming out of a ghost ark or some sort of teleport.
Mephrit makes them slightly better with the range increase, but no where near enough. (8.5" rapid fire is just shy of what they need to be). If it were +6", maybe.
Nephrek can theoretically rush them forward first turn with their 6" advance, but again, not sure its enough.

Wouldn't really consider them for anyone else.

Danny76 wrote:
Are the new Warriors any good (alternate gun choice I mean).

Has anyone built these and perhaps converted with Deathmarks/Immortals weapons on the bodies? Wondering if they match up well.
(I did this with the old warrior kit and Deathmarks guns/heads, but could do with slightly bigger bodies, not sure if the new ones are)

They have been okay for me so far. Not great, not bad. Biggest issue has been having vehicles to deal with often. Once due to own mistake where to bring from reserve, one just the way things fell(and when opponents army is Ghazkhull, painboy, weirdboy, 6 meganobz, 10 grots, 3 killa kans and deff dread...there's really not much good targets for them! I did get shoot at meganobz at full rapid fire but bad dice rolling from me and good from him ruined result. Average 4.444 wounds, I caused 1. GG.).

One thing that has been noticable is having distraction carnifex along helps. If you have 6 wraiths with 2++ or 7 lychguard with 2++ heading toward objective soaking firepower warriors gets to actually advance into rf range! And if they shoot instead warriors...well weapons good at clearing at warriors are high rate of fire which is what you want against 2++ units so...I don't mind that at all!

One thing I want to try is 2-3 ghost arks with reapers inside. Then add deceiver. If I get first turn that's d3 ghost arks filled with reapers repositioned 12.1" from enemy, disembark 3", move 5", fire 4.1" away from enemy. Dakkadakkadakka. 60 S5 -2 and 60 S4 -1 from ghost arks should make some sort of a dent.

So if I choose not to build any I won’t be missing out it seems.
I already have so many warriors anyway, so don’t really want more unless they seemed an auto pick..)

And likely no use for the warrior sprues if I can’t convert for anything.
(Though I bought that big 48warrior/monolith box years ago, and I’m still converting old bodies to alternate units..)


Glad that DDA look to be better, though not sure what the new Codex will bring..

I have built Deathmarks from Indomitus warriors, used the deathmark gun with arm, and the other arm from the warrior. It does look a bit weird, the warrior arm is to short, and the gun is pretty big. Head from Deathmarks. If you look from behind you notice that the hand on the buttom of the gun doesn't match with the arm.

Voss wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
Are the new Warriors any good (alternate gun choice I mean).

Has anyone built these and perhaps converted with Deathmarks/Immortals weapons on the bodies? Wondering if they match up well.
(I did this with the old warrior kit and Deathmarks guns/heads, but could do with slightly bigger bodies, not sure if the new ones are)

The new bodies are significantly smaller (not a lot shorter, though they're squatting less, but a lot less bulky)- they don't match up well. They'd actually be worse than the old ones for this.

The new gun seems dynasty dependent.

Sautehk dynasty gives 2 shots at their full range of 14" (or 18" for other guns), which utterly changes how the unit works. Particularly if they're coming out of a ghost ark or some sort of teleport.
Mephrit makes them slightly better with the range increase, but no where near enough. (8.5" rapid fire is just shy of what they need to be). If it were +6", maybe.
Nephrek can theoretically rush them forward first turn with their 6" advance, but again, not sure its enough.

Wouldn't really consider them for anyone else.

I'd argue Novokh actually since there's a generic Outflank Strat and you can get them really close in for potential charging.

 p5freak wrote:
I have built Deathmarks from Indomitus warriors, used the deathmark gun with arm, and the other arm from the warrior. It does look a bit weird, the warrior arm is to short, and the gun is pretty big. Head from Deathmarks. If you look from behind you notice that the hand on the buttom of the gun doesn't match with the arm.

That was the problem I had with the old warrior bodies.
I filled the sockets a bit with Green Stuff which pushed the arms further away, making the gun and arm connect better.
Was hoping these would be better and I’d just switch to new bodies, but may as well carry on with the old body process and sell the whole new sprue.

(I also did it with Tesla Immortals and warrior bodies, making all 15 gun options from the kit. Well worth it.

Want to try with the Lynch/Praet box, but not sure whether it feasible there anyway..)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
Are the new Warriors any good (alternate gun choice I mean).

Has anyone built these and perhaps converted with Deathmarks/Immortals weapons on the bodies? Wondering if they match up well.
(I did this with the old warrior kit and Deathmarks guns/heads, but could do with slightly bigger bodies, not sure if the new ones are)

The new bodies are significantly smaller (not a lot shorter, though they're squatting less, but a lot less bulky)- they don't match up well. They'd actually be worse than the old ones for this.

The new gun seems dynasty dependent.

Sautehk dynasty gives 2 shots at their full range of 14" (or 18" for other guns), which utterly changes how the unit works. Particularly if they're coming out of a ghost ark or some sort of teleport.
Mephrit makes them slightly better with the range increase, but no where near enough. (8.5" rapid fire is just shy of what they need to be). If it were +6", maybe.
Nephrek can theoretically rush them forward first turn with their 6" advance, but again, not sure its enough.

Wouldn't really consider them for anyone else.

It’d be teleport for me as my two arks are DDA, so potentially the Sautehk as extra shots is the way, but then that improves the regular warriors and maybe just sticking to them is still best..

Anybody else hopeful that the Doomsday Cannon will have a strength increase to 12 maybe?

Not saying its certain to happen, but if you compare it to the blaster its like twice as long and the only benefit so far is a range buff which considering the smaller board size isn't really much of a benefit. Id take a strength buff or a min damage 3 at least just to differentiate it

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
Anybody else hopeful that the Doomsday Cannon will have a strength increase to 12 maybe?

Not saying its certain to happen, but if you compare it to the blaster its like twice as long and the only benefit so far is a range buff which considering the smaller board size isn't really much of a benefit. Id take a strength buff or a min damage 3 at least just to differentiate it

S12 changes nothing against Marines and Custodes so it's not relevant as far as I can tell, I definitely would not pay more for this upgrade.

 vict0988 wrote:
...S12 changes nothing against Marines and Custodes...

T6 Bikes?

Oh yeah i do admit that besides bikes, some flyers and land speeders (not sure about astra militarum but I do think admech have some T6) there aren't lots of T6 models in the imperial armies but it would be nice to have something to differentiate the two because as I mentioned at the moment there really isnt anything

This may be a decidedly lukewarm take, but:

I was pondering last night that the relatively small changes from our Index to our Codex in 8th (essentially we just got the traits, strats, codes, and relics) was because this much broader refresh of the line had already been planned for 2020?

I mean, this is pretty much guaranteed to be why we got such an anaemic offering in Pariah, but I feel like they must have had *BIG NECRON DO OVER* on their pipeline even as they were doing the and kicked a bunch of work on them down the road...?

 unitled wrote:
This may be a decidedly lukewarm take, but:

I was pondering last night that the relatively small changes from our Index to our Codex in 8th (essentially we just got the traits, strats, codes, and relics) was because this much broader refresh of the line had already been planned for 2020?

I mean, this is pretty much guaranteed to be why we got such an anaemic offering in Pariah, but I feel like they must have had *BIG NECRON DO OVER* on their pipeline even as they were doing the and kicked a bunch of work on them down the road...?

Not really. What you describe is what majority of codexes got. There was very few model releases(apart from marine lietnautnants) for 8e codexes. Likely to get them in 2-3 per a month.

The few exceptions were orks, sisters of battle(but of course here no models, no codex release either), knights, nurgle marines, daemons got couple kits. But for most you were super lucky to get single HQ. Necrons did get cryptek so...yeah about what most factions could hope for.

 unitled wrote:
This may be a decidedly lukewarm take, but:

I was pondering last night that the relatively small changes from our Index to our Codex in 8th (essentially we just got the traits, strats, codes, and relics) was because this much broader refresh of the line had already been planned for 2020?

I mean, this is pretty much guaranteed to be why we got such an anaemic offering in Pariah, but I feel like they must have had *BIG NECRON DO OVER* on their pipeline even as they were doing the and kicked a bunch of work on them down the road...?

I doubt it, the problems of Codex Necrons was spawned by a terribly terrible Index Necrons and fixing every single problem of the faction was probably just outside the scope of the writers of the Codex. There have been a million other codexes that have been bad and some of those have been bad and not updated for several editions, we're just lucky to be playing in a time where the pace of releases is at an all time high, covid not-withstanding. I would caution against being overly optimistic about the future of our new Codex and all our releases being good, Doomstalkers are the only unit which has a chance of seeing competitive play, the rest are somewhere between meh and worst unit in the game and I doubt GW will release an army-wide rule as fantastically busted as Doctrines paired with super Doctrines ended up being with SM and I still think Codex Necrons 9th will end up being rushed and will fail to update some rules. One thing to keep in mind with SM also was that Doctrines and Super Doctrines came with restrictions, what restrictions can be put on Necrons that have not already been put upon us? No allies and detachments makes multi-dynasty lists less viable already, I guess GW could force us back into Decurions if we want Reanimation Protocols to do something useful.

 vict0988 wrote:

I doubt it, the problems of Codex Necrons was spawned by a terribly terrible Index Necrons and fixing every single problem of the faction was probably just outside the scope of the writers of the Codex. There have been a million other codexes that have been bad and some of those have been bad and not updated for several editions, we're just lucky to be playing in a time where the pace of releases is at an all time high, covid not-withstanding. I would caution against being overly optimistic about the future of our new Codex and all our releases being good, Doomstalkers are the only unit which has a chance of seeing competitive play, the rest are somewhere between meh and worst unit in the game and I doubt GW will release an army-wide rule as fantastically busted as Doctrines paired with super Doctrines ended up being with SM and I still think Codex Necrons 9th will end up being rushed and will fail to update some rules. One thing to keep in mind with SM also was that Doctrines and Super Doctrines came with restrictions, what restrictions can be put on Necrons that have not already been put upon us? No allies and detachments makes multi-dynasty lists less viable already, I guess GW could force us back into Decurions if we want Reanimation Protocols to do something useful.

You know you don't HAVE to play 40k right...?

Feels premature to be judging the codex, having potentially regenerating cheap blobs of troops feels like it might be an edge in the objective game to me (plus durable dedicated transports for those units that may have an edge against high damage AV weapons).

So far leaks have been far from encouraging and there's still no suggestion whatsoever that RP would be actually meaningful. As it is now there's no regenerating cheap blobs. We don't even have cheap blobs.

 unitled wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

I doubt it, the problems of Codex Necrons was spawned by a terribly terrible Index Necrons and fixing every single problem of the faction was probably just outside the scope of the writers of the Codex. There have been a million other codexes that have been bad and some of those have been bad and not updated for several editions, we're just lucky to be playing in a time where the pace of releases is at an all time high, covid not-withstanding. I would caution against being overly optimistic about the future of our new Codex and all our releases being good, Doomstalkers are the only unit which has a chance of seeing competitive play, the rest are somewhere between meh and worst unit in the game and I doubt GW will release an army-wide rule as fantastically busted as Doctrines paired with super Doctrines ended up being with SM and I still think Codex Necrons 9th will end up being rushed and will fail to update some rules. One thing to keep in mind with SM also was that Doctrines and Super Doctrines came with restrictions, what restrictions can be put on Necrons that have not already been put upon us? No allies and detachments makes multi-dynasty lists less viable already, I guess GW could force us back into Decurions if we want Reanimation Protocols to do something useful.

You know you don't HAVE to play 40k right...?

Feels premature to be judging the codex, having potentially regenerating cheap blobs of troops feels like it might be an edge in the objective game to me (plus durable dedicated transports for those units that may have an edge against high damage AV weapons).

I don't understand what you mean? The core rules of 8th were so good that despite Index Necrons being terrible they were still fun to play. Codex Necrons made improvements, just not enough to make it amazing and I think Codex Necrons 9th will be as good or at best slightly better than the last, I am being realistic to avoid being let down. I had low expectations of CA19 and ended up happy, I slowly got higher and higher expectations with 9th and was then let down by a poor CA20.

I don't know what cheap troops Necrons will get, is there a rumour I don't know about? /s

 unitled wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

I doubt it, the problems of Codex Necrons was spawned by a terribly terrible Index Necrons and fixing every single problem of the faction was probably just outside the scope of the writers of the Codex. There have been a million other codexes that have been bad and some of those have been bad and not updated for several editions, we're just lucky to be playing in a time where the pace of releases is at an all time high, covid not-withstanding. I would caution against being overly optimistic about the future of our new Codex and all our releases being good, Doomstalkers are the only unit which has a chance of seeing competitive play, the rest are somewhere between meh and worst unit in the game and I doubt GW will release an army-wide rule as fantastically busted as Doctrines paired with super Doctrines ended up being with SM and I still think Codex Necrons 9th will end up being rushed and will fail to update some rules. One thing to keep in mind with SM also was that Doctrines and Super Doctrines came with restrictions, what restrictions can be put on Necrons that have not already been put upon us? No allies and detachments makes multi-dynasty lists less viable already, I guess GW could force us back into Decurions if we want Reanimation Protocols to do something useful.

You know you don't HAVE to play 40k right...?

Feels premature to be judging the codex, having potentially regenerating cheap blobs of troops feels like it might be an edge in the objective game to me (plus durable dedicated transports for those units that may have an edge against high damage AV weapons).

Honestly I've become convinced that some people will claim "it sucks GW hates us" unless they get a complee range re-work AND a dozen new models, all of which have a power level on par with 7th edition wraithknights

MrPieChee wrote:
If GW are getting rid of all green rod kits, does that mean a new doomsday ark and ghost ark kit?

Which leads to the very interesting question - will we see reaper arrays as well as flayer arrays?

With the Arks speed, reapers would be devastating on ghost arks (probably too risky on a DDA).

As far as a new kit goes, I hope they go down a mini monolith route rather than sticking with the existing design minus the rods. Something like a small rectangular base monolith with Barge style pilots at the back...

No, the Arks aren't going anywhere, in either form. The DDA will remain one of our best AT options (even with the points increase), and with mission play in 9th the transport might be viable as well.

I want ghost arks to be able to transport more than warriors. A ghost ark can transport ten skorpekh lords, but it cant transport five immortals. Necrons are the only faction who cant put all their troop choices in their transports.

Ghost Arks cannot transport Destroyer Lords, it's extremely obvious they won't be able to transport Skorpekhs, if not at release then whenever GW notices.

The ghost ark is no different than say the Space Marine Landspeeder Storm, they are both designed to transport one kind of model. I would rather they fix the Monolith and Night Scythe's ability to transport models.

How are people saying they transport Skorptekh things?