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mournwhelk wrote:
Does the change to reanimation protocol make the new reanimator more appealing?

Not really, it's still waaay too fragile for too high a cost imo.

mournwhelk wrote:
Does the change to reanimation protocol make the new reanimator more appealing?

Not if it stays at 110pts. I can't remember who suggested it, but someone said it needed to be like 70pts and can be in squads of 3, that would make them good imo

Someone can check the maths on this, but I saw someone say that a Warrior has a 33% chance of standing up, but a Lychgard has a 11.11% chance to get back up.

That doesn't seem like a good change to me.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Someone can check the maths on this, but I saw someone say that a Warrior has a 33% chance of standing up, but a Lychgard has a 11.11% chance to get back up.

That doesn't seem like a good change to me.

Correct, a warrior has a 1/3 chance with 1 dice where as a single lychguard has a 1/9 chance assuming you roll 2 dice

 unitled wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Bye bye necron hype. It was good to have hopes for a xenos faction for once, while it lasted...
This is an absolute shame and insult to the necrons if there is no way to bring back models destroyed earlier. That was their iconic feature through the ages !

Mate. Not since 2nd Ed have we been able to keep attempting Self Repair turn after turn until it worked.

These new RP make a Warriors and Immortals (traditionally the backbone of any Necron force) massive pains in the bum to shift. Get a unit of 20 Warriors dug in on an objective, and it’s the devil’s job to shift them.

Yes, some armies probably can gather the firepower to wreck 20 in a single turn. But it’s still going to take a significant chunk of their available attacks to do so.

Plus if you undershoot and take out 18 or 19 rather than 20, say hello to 7 of them jumping back up (maybe 9 or 10 if you've buffed the RP on the unit).

This happens now, the only difference is a 2nd unit mops them up now and might not in 9th.

I know there could be more to the picture but as of right now its looking like we essentially got a weak fnp. Then with the max of +1 to reanimate there's never going to be a real point of taking the reanimator considering you can't hide it like a cryptek. RP is essentially useless on multi-wound models. after seeing the leaked space marine stuff and then this it looks like another addition of almost never winning with necrons (outside of maybe 1-2 skew lists that pop up)

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Someone can check the maths on this, but I saw someone say that a Warrior has a 33% chance of standing up, but a Lychgard has a 11.11% chance to get back up.

That doesn't seem like a good change to me.

Correct, a warrior has a 1/3 chance with 1 dice where as a single lychguard has a 1/9 chance assuming you roll 2 dice

4% for a destroyer.

It's moments like this I'm glad I have 120 warriors

mournwhelk wrote:
Does the change to reanimation protocol make the new reanimator more appealing?

Its main issue is that it's ridiculously fragile.

Combine that with the fact that it can't stack with a Cryptek... I'd say no.

 JNAProductions wrote:

mournwhelk wrote:
Does the change to reanimation protocol make the new reanimator more appealing?

Its main issue is that it's ridiculously fragile.

Combine that with the fact that it can't stack with a Cryptek... I'd say no.

not only very fragile but expensive too

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What an amazing battle report! Using everything out of the box we already know about!

This is Games Workshop, the company that printed an entire Codex that managed to show off virtually zero new models beyond what came in the big preview box and a couple of vehicles that had been previewed on the website. Didn't even show the real kits of the preview models (Archos, Repentia), just the ones from the preview box.

That's how afraid they are of revealing things. Not even in the damned Codex, and all because it came out several months to the rest of the range.

Serious question: you did know that White Dwarf got shorted two issues this year, right?
WD454 there has a Lumineth Battle Report...and Lumineth were supposed to come out in April. That announcement I linked was made in May. Most of the stuff in the battle report there only just came out for Lumineth.

I feel like the RP on Multi-wound models is a bit overblown.

Sure if only 1 Lychguard dies then fishing for double 5s is gonna be a feelsbad moment in comparison to Warriors but unless your opponent clanks his shooting more than 1 LG is gonna die.

E.g. 3 LG die so you roll 6 dice in total to get 1 back on average.
3 Warriors die so you roll 3 dice to get... 1 back on average.

If my opponent wants to kill 1 Lychguard model per unit in order to outplay RP by all means go ahead.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Someone can check the maths on this, but I saw someone say that a Warrior has a 33% chance of standing up, but a Lychgard has a 11.11% chance to get back up.

That doesn't seem like a good change to me.

Depends how you calculate it.
Yes, if a single Lychguard dies, you have a 1/9 chance of him getting back up. Quite awful.

But if say 3 Lychguard die, your odds of making 2 5+s on 6 dice are... uh, beyond me right now. But considerably better I think than 1/9. You'd expect it to round to 1/3.

The problem with say multi-wound models is how the wounds breakdown.
So say you have 3 Heavy Lokhusts, each with 4 wounds.

I inflict 7 wounds on you. You get to make 4 5+ renamination rolls because only 1 4 wound model is "dead". Unless all 4 come up as 5s, which is 1/81 roll, the model dies.
I then inflict 5 remaining wounds with another unit. Unit is dead, no reanimation. Lets say I fail and you have one wound left. Okay... but you only get to roll 4 more dice and the odds of getting 4 5+s are again, 1/81.

So odds are good you are never ressurecting a Lokhust.

Its a similar story on the 3 wound models. If I nuke 5 out of 6 with one unit, okay you get 15 rolls, a good chance one will get up, maybe you get lucky and get 2. But if I chip away one at a time, the most likely result is nothing getting up. Which is a bit sad.

Its sort of fine if GW recognise this. But if they go "well, these units all have a 5+++, they should be priced as such" then its going to suck.

Edit - Sort of ninjaed by the above, but embellished.

mournwhelk wrote:
Does the change to reanimation protocol make the new reanimator more appealing?

Opposite. Why pay for bonus for one unit when cryptek buffs several? Before about only reason to use was to combo for 3+ rp. Illegal now. Max 4+

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
I feel like the RP on Multi-wound models is a bit overblown.

Sure if only 1 Lychguard dies then fishing for double 5s is gonna be a feelsbad moment in comparison to Warriors but unless your opponent clanks his shooting more than 1 LG is gonna die.

E.g. 3 LG die so you roll 6 dice in total to get 1 back on average.
3 Warriors die so you roll 3 dice to get... 1 back on average.

If my opponent wants to kill 1 Lychguard model per unit in order to outplay RP by all means go ahead.

yeah but now (if I'm reading the rule correctly) once a lychguard is gone it's gone for good. so by putting some odd shots into them turns 1-2 and killing like 2 a turn you can essentially wear them down then shoot them with something big, wipe the unit, and deny any reanimation protocols

Asmodios wrote:
I know there could be more to the picture but as of right now its looking like we essentially got a weak fnp.

It depends. Against attacks that deal more than 1 point of damage to single wound models, its stronger- FNP has to roll against each incoming wound individually, and this doesn't.
For single damage weapons against single wound models, its functionally the same (slightly in favor of necrons if the modifiers are common enough)

Its definitely weaker for the multiwound necrons, but with the way the core rules assign wounds (to the first wounded model until they die), I think this partially works the way it does to avoid complications.

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
I feel like the RP on Multi-wound models is a bit overblown.

Sure if only 1 Lychguard dies then fishing for double 5s is gonna be a feelsbad moment in comparison to Warriors but unless your opponent clanks his shooting more than 1 LG is gonna die.

E.g. 3 LG die so you roll 6 dice in total to get 1 back on average.
3 Warriors die so you roll 3 dice to get... 1 back on average.

If my opponent wants to kill 1 Lychguard model per unit in order to outplay RP by all means go ahead.

I acknowledge some attrition is needed and keeping 1/3 of a unit is good but when your army special rule requires you to hope your opponent kills lots of your unit just so you can bring a third back, that's not a good feeling moment.

Reanimation protocols for 9th, possibly more than last time are silver lining mechanic. It's a "oh nice 1 got back up" as a bonus, which requires units not to be priced like they're all standing back up all the time like they are currently.

 JNAProductions wrote:

mournwhelk wrote:
Does the change to reanimation protocol make the new reanimator more appealing?

Its main issue is that it's ridiculously fragile.

Combine that with the fact that it can't stack with a Cryptek... I'd say no.

Crypteks are an Aura, right?
Fighting AdMech, remember that our flyer can shut down Auras. Who knows what other armies can do this edition?
The Reanimator is a 9" buff to a single, targeted unit not an Aura.

It's also worth mentioning that the wording for RP mods is:

A Reanimation Protocol roll can never be modified by more than -1 or +1.

So while a Cryptek and Reanimator both won't give you +2, if there's something that can mitigate the roll by forcing a -1? You'd still get your +1.

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
I feel like the RP on Multi-wound models is a bit overblown.

Sure if only 1 Lychguard dies then fishing for double 5s is gonna be a feelsbad moment in comparison to Warriors but unless your opponent clanks his shooting more than 1 LG is gonna die.

E.g. 3 LG die so you roll 6 dice in total to get 1 back on average.
3 Warriors die so you roll 3 dice to get... 1 back on average.

If my opponent wants to kill 1 Lychguard model per unit in order to outplay RP by all means go ahead.

You realise that this is after each attack, right? Not at the end of the shooting phase.

Voss wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
I know there could be more to the picture but as of right now its looking like we essentially got a weak fnp.

It depends. Against attacks that deal more than 1 point of damage to single wound models, its stronger- FNP has to roll against each incoming wound individually, and this doesn't.
For single damage weapons against single wound models, its functionally the same (slightly in favor of necrons if the modifiers are common enough)

Its definitely weaker for the multiwound necrons, but with the way the core rules assign wounds (to the first wounded model until they die), I think this partially works the way it does to avoid complications.

I would still hold to saying its a weak FNP as its essentially useless on multi-wound models where FNP is still just as strong. Even on a warriors blob once its been taken down a bit you can still wipe the unit to deny RP but you can never just remove FNP by killing all the models at once

Dudeface wrote:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
I feel like the RP on Multi-wound models is a bit overblown.

Sure if only 1 Lychguard dies then fishing for double 5s is gonna be a feelsbad moment in comparison to Warriors but unless your opponent clanks his shooting more than 1 LG is gonna die.

E.g. 3 LG die so you roll 6 dice in total to get 1 back on average.
3 Warriors die so you roll 3 dice to get... 1 back on average.

If my opponent wants to kill 1 Lychguard model per unit in order to outplay RP by all means go ahead.

I acknowledge some attrition is needed and keeping 1/3 of a unit is good but when your army special rule requires you to hope your opponent kills lots of your unit just so you can bring a third back, that's not a good feeling moment.

Reanimation protocols for 9th, possibly more than last time are silver lining mechanic. It's a "oh nice 1 got back up" as a bonus, which requires units not to be priced like they're all standing back up all the time like they are currently.

Well considering in 8th you probably NEVER got to roll for the ability you were taxed for I'll take a nerfed version (I don't think it is in totality btw just being hyperbolic) that I can actually use.

Still, it all comes down to GW's price point and how they perceive the value to be so we'll see when the Codex drops.

Edit:

 vipoid wrote:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
I feel like the RP on Multi-wound models is a bit overblown.

Sure if only 1 Lychguard dies then fishing for double 5s is gonna be a feelsbad moment in comparison to Warriors but unless your opponent clanks his shooting more than 1 LG is gonna die.

E.g. 3 LG die so you roll 6 dice in total to get 1 back on average.
3 Warriors die so you roll 3 dice to get... 1 back on average.

If my opponent wants to kill 1 Lychguard model per unit in order to outplay RP by all means go ahead.

You realise that this is after each attack, right? Not at the end of the shooting phase.

Yes. You roll after an enemy unit has completed it's attack, not sure how that changes what I said though?

Gotta be misprint on the article for the deathray on the monolith huh? It has it listed as heavy 1 str 9.

The doom scythe had it at str 12 heavy 3.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Gotta be misprint on the article for the deathray on the monolith huh? It has it listed as heavy 1 str 9.

The doom scythe had it at str 12 heavy 3.

It's not the same deathray. It also has a shorter range. There are also 4 of them on the monolith.

Removed

 Xenomancers wrote:
Gotta be misprint on the article for the deathray on the monolith huh? It has it listed as heavy 1 str 9.

The doom scythe had it at str 12 heavy 3.

It looks like it's a bit smaller than the Death Ray on the Doom Scythe.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
OH

This is why a lot of units are getting both Living Metal AD Reanimation Protocols

We've seen it on cryptothralls and Ophydian Destroyers. Maybe more units will get it?

I don't remember seeing Living Metal on the Destroyers but it makes the new RP sting less I guess. That doesn't help Lychguard and Praetorians at all though. Immortal blocks look fun again at least.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
OH

This is why a lot of units are getting both Living Metal AD Reanimation Protocols

We've seen it on cryptothralls and Ophydian Destroyers. Maybe more units will get it?

I don't remember seeing Living Metal on the Destroyers but it makes the new RP sting less I guess. That doesn't help Lychguard and Praetorians at all though. Immortal blocks look fun again at least.

Ophydian Destroyers have Living Metal and RP.

 Mixzremixzd wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
I feel like the RP on Multi-wound models is a bit overblown.

Sure if only 1 Lychguard dies then fishing for double 5s is gonna be a feelsbad moment in comparison to Warriors but unless your opponent clanks his shooting more than 1 LG is gonna die.

E.g. 3 LG die so you roll 6 dice in total to get 1 back on average.
3 Warriors die so you roll 3 dice to get... 1 back on average.

If my opponent wants to kill 1 Lychguard model per unit in order to outplay RP by all means go ahead.

I acknowledge some attrition is needed and keeping 1/3 of a unit is good but when your army special rule requires you to hope your opponent kills lots of your unit just so you can bring a third back, that's not a good feeling moment.

Reanimation protocols for 9th, possibly more than last time are silver lining mechanic. It's a "oh nice 1 got back up" as a bonus, which requires units not to be priced like they're all standing back up all the time like they are currently.

Well considering in 8th you probably NEVER got to roll for the ability you were taxed for I'll take a nerfed version (I don't think it is in totality btw just being hyperbolic) that I can actually use.

Still, it all comes down to GW's price point and how they perceive the value to be so we'll see when the Codex drops.

Edit:

 vipoid wrote:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
I feel like the RP on Multi-wound models is a bit overblown.

Sure if only 1 Lychguard dies then fishing for double 5s is gonna be a feelsbad moment in comparison to Warriors but unless your opponent clanks his shooting more than 1 LG is gonna die.

E.g. 3 LG die so you roll 6 dice in total to get 1 back on average.
3 Warriors die so you roll 3 dice to get... 1 back on average.

If my opponent wants to kill 1 Lychguard model per unit in order to outplay RP by all means go ahead.

You realise that this is after each attack, right? Not at the end of the shooting phase.

Yes. You roll after an enemy unit has completed it's attack, not sure how that changes what I said though?

Apologies for being uncharacteristically nit picky, but it’s after the enemy’s attacks are completed. Given how the shooting sequence works for mixed weapons, that is an important distinction to bear in mind

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Apologies for being uncharacteristically nit picky, but it’s after the enemy’s attacks are completed. Given how the shooting sequence works for mixed weapons, that is an important distinction to bear in mind

No problem, I think it's meant to cover split fire so if a 10 Tac squad shoots 5 and 5 at different units you don't need to wait until the entire unit is done shooting just until all the attacks are resolved for your unit by the enemy as far as I understand it.

-Ňecrontyr- wrote:
So its a FnP that starts at 5+, cannot get better then 4+ and reroll 1's, that only activates if the squad is not wiped out, does NOT allow for models slain in previous phases/turns, and you have to succeed on ALL of a multiwound models' W charscteristic or they die.

Feels like a nerf.

I mean it objectively isn't, but you do you.

I just saw a 2k game with necrons in it yesterday and recall that on battle round 3 the guy playing necrons said "hey, I actually get to roll for resurrection! That's the first time this game!"