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Not for nothing, but there is a lot of 5s getting tossed around here for an ability that will almost certainly be on 4s for all the parts of the game that matters. It's trivially easy to get +1 to reanimation in the early parts of the game, which is also where you're facing the brunt of your opponents output.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
New RP is almost worthless on all the new 3 wound destroyer units.

Agreed. If the opponent manages to destroy one model you get three dice, and each dice must be a 5+, if not the model is gone. Pool is discarded. The next unit also kills one model, you get three dice, and need a 5+ on every dice, otherwise pool is discarded, and the model is gone. You get six dice when the opponent kills two models, but you still need three 5+ to bring back a destroyer.

Might just be wishlisting but some speculation is that there is some ways to add dice to a RP roll through strategems or other rules.

Also, worth pointing out here that assuming he gets RPs, a necron immortal is actually slightly tougher than a primaris marine against every basic anti-infantry weapon except lasguns!

In view of the RP, if I loose say 2 models (one with 1W and the other with 2W) in say a shooting phase,
then I will roll 3 (pool) dice.
If I roll one 5++, I can recover the model with 1W.
If I roll two 5++, I may recover the model with 2W (or eventually both models, one with 1W and the other with 1W instead of 2W) ???

 Sasori wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Gotta be misprint on the article for the deathray on the monolith huh? It has it listed as heavy 1 str 9.

The doom scythe had it at str 12 heavy 3.

It's not the same deathray. It also has a shorter range. There are also 4 of them on the monolith.

That is pretty weak though as hoping for the monolith to be good.

 p5freak wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
New RP is almost worthless on all the new 3 wound destroyer units.

Agreed. If the opponent manages to destroy one model you get three dice, and each dice must be a 5+, if not the model is gone. Pool is discarded. The next unit also kills one model, you get three dice, and need a 5+ on every dice, otherwise pool is discarded, and the model is gone. You get six dice when the opponent kills two models, but you still need three 5+ to bring back a destroyer.

Or you could prioritize using things like the Reanimator for those big units?

Might sound a bit goofy at first blush--but the Cryptek, assuming it's an Aura, would be better served camped out with bigger units right?
The Reanimator can be used to fulfill a different role targeting a specific unit thanks to its 'leash' of 9 inches rather than an Aura which likely would be 3-6" instead.

 p5freak wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
New RP is almost worthless on all the new 3 wound destroyer units.

Agreed. If the opponent manages to destroy one model you get three dice, and each dice must be a 5+, if not the model is gone. Pool is discarded. The next unit also kills one model, you get three dice, and need a 5+ on every dice, otherwise pool is discarded, and the model is gone. You get six dice when the opponent kills two models, but you still need three 5+ to bring back a destroyer.

If you bring a cryptek or ANY of the many sources of +1 to reanimation means hat two dead destroyers suddenly becomes one dead destroyer, which means a unit of 6 destroyers is suddenly a unit of nearly 9.

Dudeface wrote:

 unitled wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Bye bye necron hype. It was good to have hopes for a xenos faction for once, while it lasted...
This is an absolute shame and insult to the necrons if there is no way to bring back models destroyed earlier. That was their iconic feature through the ages !

Mate. Not since 2nd Ed have we been able to keep attempting Self Repair turn after turn until it worked.

These new RP make a Warriors and Immortals (traditionally the backbone of any Necron force) massive pains in the bum to shift. Get a unit of 20 Warriors dug in on an objective, and it’s the devil’s job to shift them.

Yes, some armies probably can gather the firepower to wreck 20 in a single turn. But it’s still going to take a significant chunk of their available attacks to do so.

Plus if you undershoot and take out 18 or 19 rather than 20, say hello to 7 of them jumping back up (maybe 9 or 10 if you've buffed the RP on the unit).

This happens now, the only difference is a 2nd unit mops them up now and might not in 9th.

The difference between 8th and 9th here is admittedly mostly best case, but it's between the second unit needing to kill 1 and 7, which is considerable. Especially as the 7 are likely to get more RP and the 1 certainly isn't.

The void dragon looks kind of OP. Max 3 damage per phase and it has character protection. Is the nocrodermis on all ctans? If that is the case its gonna be hard not to take at least 1 in your list.

 p5freak wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
New RP is almost worthless on all the new 3 wound destroyer units.

Agreed. If the opponent manages to destroy one model you get three dice, and each dice must be a 5+, if not the model is gone. Pool is discarded. The next unit also kills one model, you get three dice, and need a 5+ on every dice, otherwise pool is discarded, and the model is gone. You get six dice when the opponent kills two models, but you still need three 5+ to bring back a destroyer.

So we accept and understand that risk, and do what we can, game to game, situation to situation to mitigate it.

RP, as with all Special Rules should not be a simple crutch for sloppy tactics etc.

It’s a perk, nothing more. One for us to learn to better exploit the strengths of than our opponents exploit the weakness of.

 Xenomancers wrote:
The void dragon looks kind of OP. Max 3 damage per phase and it has character protection. Is the nocrodermis on all ctans? If that is the case its gonna be hard not to take at least 1 in your list.

All have necrodermis but no confirmation he's a character at present.

ERJAK wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
New RP is almost worthless on all the new 3 wound destroyer units.

Agreed. If the opponent manages to destroy one model you get three dice, and each dice must be a 5+, if not the model is gone. Pool is discarded. The next unit also kills one model, you get three dice, and need a 5+ on every dice, otherwise pool is discarded, and the model is gone. You get six dice when the opponent kills two models, but you still need three 5+ to bring back a destroyer.

If you bring a cryptek or ANY of the many sources of +1 to reanimation means hat two dead destroyers suddenly becomes one dead destroyer, which means a unit of 6 destroyers is suddenly a unit of nearly 9.

If you lose two W4 Destroyers in an attack, you have...

A 25% chance of bringing one back on a 5+, and a .02% chance of bringing back two.
A 64% chance of bringing one back on a 4+, and a .39% chance of bringing back two.

So... Decent odds, with a 4+, but not phenomenal.

ERJAK wrote:

If you bring a cryptek or ANY of the many sources of +1 to reanimation means hat two dead destroyers suddenly becomes one dead destroyer, which means a unit of 6 destroyers is suddenly a unit of nearly 9.

You have dice that auto roll 4+ ? I dont. If one destroyer dies you still need three 4+ with three dice. If two destroyer die, you get six dice and still need three 4+. Chances are better, but its far from auto succeeding.

Dudeface wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The void dragon looks kind of OP. Max 3 damage per phase and it has character protection. Is the nocrodermis on all ctans? If that is the case its gonna be hard not to take at least 1 in your list.

All have necrodermis but no confirmation he's a character at present.

Are Ctan characters right now?

the_scotsman wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The void dragon looks kind of OP. Max 3 damage per phase and it has character protection. Is the nocrodermis on all ctans? If that is the case its gonna be hard not to take at least 1 in your list.

All have necrodermis but no confirmation he's a character at present.

Are Ctan characters right now?

yes, they all are.

the_scotsman wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The void dragon looks kind of OP. Max 3 damage per phase and it has character protection. Is the nocrodermis on all ctans? If that is the case its gonna be hard not to take at least 1 in your list.

All have necrodermis but no confirmation he's a character at present.

Are Ctan characters right now?

Ctans were characters in 8th, and they still are in 9th. Unless the codex changes it.

 godardc wrote:
Bye bye necron hype. It was good to have hopes for a xenos faction for once, while it lasted...
This is an absolute shame and insult to the necrons if there is no way to bring back models destroyed earlier. That was their iconic feature through the ages !

Resurrection orb?

 p5freak wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

If you bring a cryptek or ANY of the many sources of +1 to reanimation means hat two dead destroyers suddenly becomes one dead destroyer, which means a unit of 6 destroyers is suddenly a unit of nearly 9.

You have dice that auto roll 4+ ? I dont. If one destroyer dies you still need three 4+ with three dice. If two destroyer die, you get six dice and still need three 4+. Chances are better, but its far from auto succeeding.

Nice shifting the goldposts. 'The statistical roll is the only thing that matters when I'M complaining about a rule, but when YOU counter my complaint it's about probability as a whole again'.

By your logic reanimation protocol is awesome because I don't have dice that only roll 1-4s so I could roll SIX 5s and 6s and lose no models!

 p5freak wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

If you bring a cryptek or ANY of the many sources of +1 to reanimation means hat two dead destroyers suddenly becomes one dead destroyer, which means a unit of 6 destroyers is suddenly a unit of nearly 9.

You have dice that auto roll 4+ ? I dont. If one destroyer dies you still need three 4+ with three dice. If two destroyer die, you get six dice and still need three 4+. Chances are better, but its far from auto succeeding.

We still haven't seen everything. For all we know, there's a Protocol with a Directive that allows for you to get Reanimation Protocols on a 4+, meaning that you'd be on 3+'s with Reanimators or Crypteks.
For all we know, Resurrection Orbs just flatout can return models rather than bolstering RPs.

We also don't know if the Technomancer is keeping the +1RP aura, unless I've missed that somewhere?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

If you bring a cryptek or ANY of the many sources of +1 to reanimation means hat two dead destroyers suddenly becomes one dead destroyer, which means a unit of 6 destroyers is suddenly a unit of nearly 9.

You have dice that auto roll 4+ ? I dont. If one destroyer dies you still need three 4+ with three dice. If two destroyer die, you get six dice and still need three 4+. Chances are better, but its far from auto succeeding.

We still haven't seen everything. For all we know, there's a Protocol with a Directive that allows for you to get Reanimation Protocols on a 4+, meaning that you'd be on 3+'s with Reanimators or Crypteks.
For all we know, Resurrection Orbs just flatout can return models rather than bolstering RPs.

Considering how amazing the SM stuff is after a first read and how after every necron reveal we have to hold our breath and "wait and see" im not going to let myself get overly hyped. Chances are this crapy version of a FNP is essentially all we are getting and GW probably overvalues it meaning everything is going to be insanely expensive

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
New RP is almost worthless on all the new 3 wound destroyer units.

Agreed. If the opponent manages to destroy one model you get three dice, and each dice must be a 5+, if not the model is gone. Pool is discarded. The next unit also kills one model, you get three dice, and need a 5+ on every dice, otherwise pool is discarded, and the model is gone. You get six dice when the opponent kills two models, but you still need three 5+ to bring back a destroyer.

So we accept and understand that risk, and do what we can, game to game, situation to situation to mitigate it.

RP, as with all Special Rules should not be a simple crutch for sloppy tactics etc.

It’s a perk, nothing more. One for us to learn to better exploit the strengths of than our opponents exploit the weakness of.

I tend to disagree, what it seems to really do is give a 'defensive consistency' rather than a wild swing from a lucky/big attack. It's better if more models are killed, meaning those big damaging attacks from your opponent are mitigated, and it works especially well on the exact troops you're hopefully sitting on objectives. And if your opponent heavily commits to remove them, well, they're not shooting at your damaging units.

This is just my initial theorising to be honest, obviously remains to be seen what else happens with our units.

 wuestenfux wrote:
In view of the RP, if I loose say 2 models (one with 1W and the other with 2W) in say a shooting phase,
then I will roll 3 (pool) dice.
If I roll one 5++, I can recover the model with 1W.
If I roll two 5++, I may recover the model with 2W (or eventually both models, one with 1W and the other with 1W instead of 2W) ???

No - a couple of things wrong here.

1) you roll one dice for the combined wound characteristic of all models attempting to reanimate (i.e. the combined wound values from their stat line). I don't know of any unit in Necrons where the models have different wounds values except Destroyers with a Plasmacyte and the current understanding is that the plasmacyte will be a separate unit in the new codex. So assuming this is a unit with 2 wounds and one guy is wounded - down to 1 wound. You would still roll 4 dice for RP (their combined W pool based on their W stat.)

2) If you roll one 5 - you get nothing back.
If you roll two 5's - you get one guy back.
If you roll three 5's - you get one guy back and the other dice is lost - you cannot reanimate a model unless you can reanimate at full wounds.

If, for some reason, the plasmacyte does remain a unit upgrade for destroyers I imagine it would work like that - where you could reanimate it with 1 wound, but would need 3 to get a destroyer back.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
We also don't know if the Technomancer is keeping the +1RP aura, unless I've missed that somewhere?

I'm fairly certain that Technomancers keeping the aura did get mentioned in one of the preview streams.

Asmodios wrote:Considering how amazing the SM stuff is after a first read and how after every necron reveal we have to hold our breath and "wait and see" im not going to let myself get overly hyped. Chances are this crapy version of a FNP is essentially all we are getting and GW probably overvalues it meaning everything is going to be insanely expensive

The Marine stuff isn't really a 'known' factor at this point either. We saw Wolves and both brands of Angels. We saw a list of names for Chapter Traits and 4 of the pickable 'custom traits'. They outright say that there are changes to some of them without naming things.

We've seen units certainly, and quite a few are questionable in terms of 'what the heck were they thinking?'. But it's not like we've seen all the Dynasties or the custom Dynasty traits either.

From Facebook:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Bye bye necron hype. It was good to have hopes for a xenos faction for once, while it lasted...
This is an absolute shame and insult to the necrons if there is no way to bring back models destroyed earlier. That was their iconic feature through the ages !

Resurrection orb?

Also, no.

Necrons always got to come back (rolling each turn) in 2nd edition

in 3rd edition it was the most similar to now, necrons got back up each turn but it was conditional, if there was no unit to join, they would be gone. So effectively if you wiped the squad, it was gone.

in 5th edition IIRC you rolled at the end of the phase with tokens, and if you fell back or got wiped your tokens were lost

in 7th edition it was basically just a FNP save.

in 8th edition it was back to pseudo the 3rd edition rule (though there was no keeping track of the dead model's position on the table)

and now, in 9th ed, it's back to being a pseudo-FNP, though I'm willing to bet you'll have res orbs, ghost arcs, etc giving you the ability to bring back units that failed to res previously.

I'm not sure about the new RP rule.
It seems really complicated, and its unclear if previously destroyed models can come back the following turn or if they are removed.

It doesn't say that they are removed, but it doesn't say that they persist either, and the article seems to imply that they stick around until the unit is wiped out.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
We also don't know if the Technomancer is keeping the +1RP aura, unless I've missed that somewhere?

I'm fairly certain that Technomancers keeping the aura did get mentioned in one of the preview streams.

Asmodios wrote:Considering how amazing the SM stuff is after a first read and how after every necron reveal we have to hold our breath and "wait and see" im not going to let myself get overly hyped. Chances are this crapy version of a FNP is essentially all we are getting and GW probably overvalues it meaning everything is going to be insanely expensive

The Marine stuff isn't really a 'known' factor at this point either. We saw Wolves and both brands of Angels. We saw a list of names for Chapter Traits and 4 of the pickable 'custom traits'. They outright say that there are changes to some of them without naming things.

We've seen units certainly, and quite a few are questionable in terms of 'what the heck were they thinking?'. But it's not like we've seen all the Dynasties or the custom Dynasty traits either.

Yes there is still a ton of “unknowns” for SM as well but unlike necrons their raw stat lines make you go “unless something happens these guys will be borderline broken” necrons on the other hand make you go “hopefully there is more to this or it’s gonna be a rough edition”

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm not sure about the new RP rule.
It seems really complicated, and its unclear if previously destroyed models can come back the following turn or if they are removed.

It doesn't say that they are removed, but it doesn't say that they persist either, and the article seems to imply that they stick around until the unit is wiped out.

The rule exists only during one phase of an attack. If you don't reanimate during that phase then those models are lost and the pool of dice are lost. Each attack round is a fresh wave; otherwise RP would work better and better the more damage you took from multiple sources.